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Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:55 pm  |
| lucyluc wrote: |
| By the way Nonie I think you look great and I never thought you ever had anything wrong with your face to begin with.,you always looked beautiful. |
Thank you lucyluc. When I started face exercise in 1991, it was not because I thought there was anything wrong with my face. I just thought the idea of maintaining my facial muscles in the tone they were in at 20 years of age was a good idea. From browsing through Eva's book, I imagined having a wrinkle free face in my 50's like Eva and that beat knowing how to apply makeup--which was actually my reason for going to the bookstore: to find a book on applying makeup.
For 15 years, Eva's program worked well for me and earned me a face that was smooth, toned, beautifully contoured...and I was very pleased. But curiosity got the better of me when I came across Flex Effect, and I thought I would give it a shot. The idea of building muscle sounded like it'd give one a solid firm face of steel that would never wrinkle or sag. I suppose in my excitement, I ignored the part about building muscle to replace lost mass. 15 years of Eva had made sure I had not lost any noticeable mass. So I probably was not the right candidate for the program to start with. What's more, it was way too aggressive. In fact, I was afraid to be as aggressive as the video on the DVD showed so I made sure before doing it that I really was supposed to be that aggressive, I especially found the stretching scary. Deb assured me over the phone I was to be. We particularly discussed the pulling down of her eyes coz in the DVD she is really gung-ho and all my life I had never known anyone to recommend doing that. She assured me that I had nothing to be afraid of. That to get the face she had on the DVD sleeve took going hard. Nervously I tried it but I didn't like it. I called again in tears really panicked as my eyes were not looking good and she told me that I had to go through an awkward stage to come out looking as good as she and she said I had to "work harder". I was unable to reach her after that second call despite trying many avenues (calls, emails, emails to her trainers even those in the studio who confirmed she got my message....) including joining the forum to send PMs to her since I noticed her posting.
To cut a long story short, in just 4 months, my face had lost all its firmness and was bulky and flabby; my smooth flawless eyes had developed huge ugly sausages under them; my previously raised cheeks had become so heavy and huge they hung over creating N/L lines which was the first time in my 35 years I had ever had N/L lines. I had been sharing my photos with a friend who was also doing the program and he confirmed that my face was gradually getting worse and agreed with me that I should quit just 4 months later so that my face can return to normal. As if I needed anymore confirmation, my best friend who started Eva a year or so before, because she loved how youthful the program had made my eyes remarked one day out of the blue that she had never noticed this before but my eyes reminded her of her granny. She said they had a warm kindness when I smiled.  She wasn't being mean or funny but looked on fondly and I knew exactly what she meant and it made me want to cry. I wanted my former eyes back!
After you stop the exercises that made a certain change--especially after such a short time--your face is supposed to return to the way it was. Mine didn't. Instead, when the bulkiness subsided, like an old deflated balloon, I now had wrinkles. The sausages were smaller but now wrinkly. Instead of going back to my lifted cheeks with youthful N/L lines when I smiled, I had 2 or3 parentheses on either side of my mouth. I also no longer had the beautiful definition I had enjoyed for years.
So my face before CFF may not look bad to others but that may be because that is what someone who has never done face exercises and who had led a fairly healthy lifestyle and was 35 may look like. But if for years your face looked you were in your 20's (and especially when you worked so hard to keep it that way) and then in just four months you find yourself with someone else's swollen face, having aged over ten years in such a short time, it doesn't matter how many people find nothing wrong with it. You yourself know how horrible it feels and how different it looks and it is not OK.
I don't have a low self esteem. In fact, I am one of those people who really loves all of me and I never ever know how to answer the question "What is it you hate about yourself?" coz I really am comfortable in my skin, even when I let myself go and get flabby and wouldn't be seen in anything fitting. Or when I get zits or when I had a bald spot.... Perhaps it's because I always believe where there's a will there is a way so I can do anything I want and fix anything if I put my mind to it. But oh how I regretted that I ever messed with a good thing--especially since it seemed there was no going back. It seemed so hopeless because for a whole year I rested, tried Eva... nothing doing! It was as if 15 years of Eva had all been for naught and had gone up in smoke just coz I didn't leave things well alone.
I learned then never to fix what isn't broken. That is why folks could sing praises about a new miracle wonder on the market and Nonie pays all that no mind but sticks with the devil she knows.
So yeah, I may not have had much that needed correcting thanks to Eva's foundation which I think saved me having more issues, but while most people develop those issues slowly over many years of doing nothing but letting nature take its toll, it was not acceptable to me for this to have happened at all, especially in just 4 months...and then to be made to feel like it was my fault, be lied about. Ooh...the memory of it all makes me so mad! And as kind a compliment as "your face didn't look so bad" is, it really makes me cringe because no one would've been OK to have had what happened to me happen to them. But I realize that unless one has walked in my shoes, one cannot begin to understand so I try to be gracious and accept well-meant compliment.  |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:38 am |
| ok, so then you did CFF to correct it then?I have Debs dvd too and I didnt like the pulling down of the eyes and I didnt do that, it scared me. I dont care Im not pulling my facial skin. |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:41 am |
Hey Lucyluc
Re pulling the skin, I too was once scarred, but its proof really is in the pudding so to speak but there are countless programs out there. For one, as the post above shows FlexEffect couldn't have done any permanent damage if its been corrected with CFF which is worth highlighting.
Thank you.
| lucyluc wrote: |
| ok, so then you did CFF to correct it then?I have Debs dvd too and I didnt like the pulling down of the eyes and I didnt do that, it scared me. I dont care Im not pulling my facial skin. |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:38 am |
| lucyluc wrote: |
| ok, so then you did CFF to correct it then?I have Debs dvd too and I didnt like the pulling down of the eyes and I didnt do that, it scared me. I dont care Im not pulling my facial skin. |
Yes, I did CFF to correct the issues and you can see the results on the CFF website.
While pulling on the facial skin may not all be bad, that downward pull under the center of the eye IMO is wrong and should not be done. Proper resistance training involves exerting force against the direction of contraction and contraction of the muscles under the eye is not just upward but rather both upward and inward. So the proper place for resistance to be placed is opposite to that movement, ie below the eyes but to the outside the way Carolyn Cleaves (CFF) does and the way Tom Hagerty (Shape Your Face) does.
Also I do not agree with pulling down even when resistance is placed at the right spot. Simply placing fingers there and squeezing eyes tight would be sufficient resistance IMO. The under eye area is definitely one area I personally would not recommend people pull down on the skin. |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:29 am |
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
| FlexEffect couldn't have done any permanent damage if its been corrected with CFF which is worth highlighting. |
Sean, what I get from what Nonie says is that the damage would have been permanent IF she had kept doing FE or just quit exercising without switching to another program. We shouldn't have to move to another system to correct results from another system.
Just my take.
I will say that I have both the older and more recent editions of FE. I gave FE a go for a couple of weeks, and it left my face looking stressed and kind of saggy, so I quit. Plus, as others have noted, all the skin pulling gave me pause. However, I do think some of the exercises are fab and plan to give them a go when my face is more "experienced" with exercise. I'm currently doing the beginning Eva Fraser and it makes so much more sense to me to start off really gradually with the small, weak muscles of the face than to start gung-ho like FE or even Carol Maggio (who also left me looking tired after doing the whole routine for a couple weeks). Face feels better than it ever did doing FE or Maggio. |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:40 am |
Hey Yubs
No problem with your take but for what its worth what Nonie has experienced has not been to my knowledge experienced by anyone else since I’ve been a trainer on the forum which is the only point I was trying to clarify for people.
Its very easy to be misled to believing that if you ran into problems with facial exercise and read a post like that – that you have to sort stuff on your own and that’s never the case. That’s why the forum is there. With your own case, we would still (even to this day) help you if you needed to on the forum by making suggestions and finding out what went on or why your face responded in such a way and having trained so many people as I have, I truly know and believe that facial exercises can help everyone, but not everyone’s muscles respond identically at the same speed/rates and that’s where its important to speak with a trainer.
To answer your statement “We shouldn't have to move to another system to correct results from another system” I’m in complete agreement with you – but that’s not to say that the program shouldn’t be tailored to you and your circumstances or goals that you are going after.
Also you raise such a good point about going gung-ho. If you do have weaker muscles, then the way of increasing their strength is by working them. Obviously there is a major difference between exhausting them and stimulating them to the point of becoming stronger, but again this is not something that the person who first enters facial exercise has a knowledge of upfront (but hey they will learn it as time progresses).
I personally started with Eva Fraser and it is a good system for sure. I also think both Eva and Marion are wonderful examples of what is possible the natural route, but there is also a lot more that’s possible too from my experience and that’s what I’m trying to spread the word on! There are many different alternate routes out there and I'm a fan of having choice, but I'm not a fan of people getting half stories. Obviously if someone read the previous message then (and rightly so) they may be worried but that hasn't happened on the forum since the time I've been there and I've always offered guidance to everyone.
Sean
| Yubs wrote: |
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
| FlexEffect couldn't have done any permanent damage if its been corrected with CFF which is worth highlighting. |
Sean, what I get from what Nonie says is that the damage would have been permanent IF she had kept doing FE or just quit exercising without switching to another program. We shouldn't have to move to another system to correct results from another system.
Just my take.
I will say that I have both the older and more recent editions of FE. I gave FE a go for a couple of weeks, and it left my face looking stressed and kind of saggy, so I quit. Plus, as others have noted, all the skin pulling gave me pause. However, I do think some of the exercises are fab and plan to give them a go when my face is more "experienced" with exercise. I'm currently doing the beginning Eva Fraser and it makes so much more sense to me to start off really gradually with the small, weak muscles of the face than to start gung-ho like FE or even Carol Maggio (who also left me looking tired after doing the whole routine for a couple weeks). Face feels better than it ever did doing FE or Maggio. |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:23 am |
I have tried neck exercises but don't like the pulling feeling - wonder if I am stretching the skin.
What I do practise every now and then though is Ageless massage, all over face and neck, and I can say categorically that getting up the courage to massage the deep hollow V between the cords (seen in some of Jaclyn Smith's photos that Nonie posted) filled in that area very quickly in day or two (was totally gobsmacked). I have just a gentle shallow dip there now and it has remained this way ever since, with an occasional maintenance massage. I do have some horizontal banding which I can live with, as even in middle age I had some  (I am now early 60s).
I agree total with Nonie about looking as good as you can for your age - and if someone looks older now, that's because they are! Why do they have to apologise? The words 'old' and 'ageing' are used in such an accusatory way these days. It is not a crime! |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:29 am |
| Thats encouraging Tyger! Can you elaborate on the massage you do at the deep V of the cords? |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:30 am |
| fawnie wrote: |
| Thats encouraging Tyger! Can you elaborate on the massage you do at the deep V of the cords? |
Yes I would like to know also. Thanks. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:28 am |
| It's the pinching massage that Loulou talks about on Ageless - about 3 times in each place and just move around the face/neck. I think some people add a twist but I don't. I have never previously gone in for massage of the face as such (never had a facial in my life) but have come to believe 'challenging' the skin can help it thicken - and pinching works for me. |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:36 am |
| P.S. fawnie and Cookie D - Because the hollow dipped in quite a bit, it felt vulnerable but I thought, nothing ventured, nothing gained - did it gently at first - now it's like I have a filler of collagen just sitting nicely in there and I can pinch quite firmly (even if I forget for a while, it doesn't seem to change much) |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 11:36 am |
| Thx Tyger, I rmmbr that from Ageless now that you mention. Its been a while since I looked at that program! |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:57 pm |
| Thanks Tyger. I'll have to pull out my Ageless that I bought but never even watched one time. Maybe this will motivate me. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:57 pm |
| I recall in Ageless, Lulu even said to do that pinching/twisting on the backs of the hands to thicken the skin there. Ill try that too. As you say, nothing ventured! |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:23 pm |
| Good reminder about ageless... thanks Tyger. And congrats on the neck improvement! |
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Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:28 pm |
I just wanted to pop in and thank Nonie for the clarification re neck cording. ulp, another thing to worry about. There's so much!
I haven't done much but quickly skim the rest here... but ouch, the backs of my hands and feet, and neck seem soooo tender, I couldn't imagine doing anything more than the gentlest massage. But I like your rationale and will start doing a bit of that. |
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Olive, normal/oily skin. Using rinse-off ocm, Vit C, Tretinoin since Nov/10, GHK since Feb/12, Niacinamide & glucosamine, alternating, & now skipping nights! Concerns include oiliness, hyperpigmentation from occasional zits, 11's & nasolabial folds. |
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:02 am |
| Thanks Catski. I would add that when I first pinched that area, because it is hollow/concave it is initially difficult to get much of a grasp (and I didn't want to grab anything deeper behind the skin!!) so of necessity it had to be gentle. Now it is filled in, I can grab a pinch of skin easily with no worries (have been hollow-free for about 2 years now). Was trying to find a photo that shows it without people thinking "it must be the lighting/angle etc etc" - if I find one I'll post it. |
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Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:08 am |
fawnie and Cookie D - I don't think in the massage info of Ageless it actually mentions the hollow specifically (or indeed in any programmes that I can recall). I just decided to try it one day as I was massaging my neck... Seemed a pity to miss it out! But I honestly didn't expect much to happen, or as quickly as it did - could have knocked my over with a feather. Hope it works for you if you try it.  |
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Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:27 am |
| thank you Tyger! Ive passed it on in another forum too! we'll all be grateful if it works for us as well as it did for you! |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:56 pm |
| Nonie aka AD wrote: |
Even though Facial Detox is a massage, I put it under face exercises because it does not involve any injections or knives, and you would have to be in denial to not see the improvement in the necks I posted and in these:
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I gotta say these results seem most impressive of any, especially if it's true that they happened after only 3 months of "massage". I've done this massage a few times and it's easy peasy ... as easy and non-time-consuming as Tanaka massage. If these are the results ... count me in!
Btw, Nonie... thank you for posting so many photos .. of yourself and others .. to help us visualize the result. Much appreciated! |
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Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:52 am |
| bacchus wrote: |
I've done this massage a few times and it's easy peasy ... as easy and non-time-consuming as Tanaka massage. If these are the results ... count me in!
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Hi Bacchus, please come back and update your results from the facial detox massage. This is something I'm interested in. Thanks |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:11 am |
| CookieD wrote: |
Hi Bacchus, please come back and update your results from the facial detox massage. This is something I'm interested in. Thanks |
I'll try to remember .. and try to remember to actually *do* the massage. The problem, though, is that I'm not gonna stop doing my other stuff: dermarolling, occasional tanaka massage, occasional facial exercises, etc.
In fact, if I can remember to do this everyday, hopefully I'll also remember to do those other occasionals everyday. |
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Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:38 am |
Is this the FacialDetox massage you're using?
http://www.facialdetox.com/ |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:06 am |
Oh, you mean there's more to it than the youtube vid? Lol! I've just been doing this 5 minute one:
http://www.youtube.com/user/facialdetox?feature=csp-in-feed
There's a FacialDetox channel on youtube... I can't really imagine how much more there is for sale. I'll have to look into that a bit more. |
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Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:00 pm |
Oh there's *always* "more for sale" Im sure!  |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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