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Neck cording

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LoriA
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:52 am      Reply with quote
Pardon me, but are there other pictures of neck cording, perhaps of people carrying less weight? I'm still not entirely sure what is meant here.

A long time ago a good friend in another city who was in the throws of cancer treatment came to visit and her neck had become really bizarre looking. I didn't want to ask her about it, but it looked really lumpy and knotty. She'd been a heavier girl and at that point had lost weight, but she was still heavy but her neck at least looked quite lean. I always wondered what that was and when I saw the word "cording" I thought it fit - like tightly twisted rope.
It makes me sad to even still wonder about it, having lost her some time after that.

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Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:47 pm      Reply with quote
newera wrote:
lucyluc wrote:
you may have them but dont notice them because sometimes its only when you talk or open your mouth a certain way that they are noticeable.So if you are in front of the mirror at rest you may not see them but when you are out and about talking to people they will notice them.


I just had a look at a whole load of photos taken of me by my husband on a cruise last month, in celebration of our Golden Wedding Anniversary. I see a bit of looseness which I was already aware of (minor jowling), that I haven't been able to eliminate even with CFF, but I see no sign of cords in any of the photos. I have some photos of me speaking and leaning forward (not the most flattering of views) - but I still see no cords, I'm glad to report.


newera thank you for sharing. I really have never been able to accept the sentiment "nothing but surgery can help" and it saddens me to see such hopelessness.

When an aggressive face exercise program caused me to have what seemed like excessive skin under my eyes that was wrinkled and that bunched up into huge rolls when I smiled--a situation I never had just 4 months before--and then my face didn't return to normal even after a year of not doing that program, it would seem there was no going back. I even had a professional tell me there wasn't anything that could be done ie besides surgery and it was even suggested that I had fat pads seen in old people with bags.

I refused to accept that to be gospel, even though everything seemed to confirm those words. For instance, the program I did before, which for 15 years had kept my eyes youthful, seemed unable to undo the damage I had created. What's more, the norm--ie, face returns to what it was before, once you stop the program--appeared to not be happening to me. Sad Still, I kept a positive mental attitude and kept researching and 21 months since I stopped that bad program, signs of my former face were back, thanks to a program I researched for about a year before trying it out for 8 months. My point being, it isn't always as hopeless as people make it out to be.

lucyluc wrote:
the vertical chords are more visible as one gets older.They loosen up;I dont think you can do much except surgery here. The dr tightens up the chords like tightening up shoelaces.Exercise wont help because the platysmal muscles have separated. I had a neck lift to tighten it up,I hated the dreaded chords when they were visible;its very aging and even if the rest of your face looks good, if your chords show, its hopeless!


lucyluc, here is an example of someone whose cords disappeared without surgery:

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/karen

LoriA wrote:
Pardon me, but are there other pictures of neck cording, perhaps of people carrying less weight? I'm still not entirely sure what is meant here.


LoriA, here are more examples (in the images that are paired up, the one on the left shows cording):

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:11 pm      Reply with quote
I just want to thank Nonie for always doing such a great job of explaining things and adding pictures to help.

I just bought Callanetics Evolution based on the good results Nonie has gotten with some of their other programs. Hoping it gets my exercise program a kick start. Thanks again.

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Wed Jul 03, 2013 4:53 pm      Reply with quote
Great contributions here. Nonie, you give me hope.

Even surgeons don't seem to be clear on whether the platysma is too tight or too relaxed when these cords show, or if it's just hanging skin, caused by years of gravity and platysma action. Perhaps what we call 'neck cords' have various causes.

Mine really feel like just skin, not the underlying platysmal muscle (which I can tense up), BUT, the hanging skin is indeed right under where the muscle cords show when tensed. This would indicate that I need better skin elasticity there - thus I'm using massage and dermaroller. But I have to say, even the wonderful Dr Des Fernandes, with glorious skin due to rolling and (he says) his products, has these hanging cords. Sigh...
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Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:58 am      Reply with quote
it depends on expression; sometimes they will show up, sometimes they wont. I know botox can sometimes help. Once the chords separate from the muscle I was told surgery is the only way to fix it. A stringy neck is really aging;if you have a smooth unwrinkled face and a stringy neck;its all for naught.I would rather have crows feet rather than a stringy neck.
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Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:59 am      Reply with quote
Ugh those pictures have motivated me to start hunting for the best neck surgeon I can afford!!

ITA about surgery for the stringy neck. Why mess around and waste time, just do it. I will.

Holding your head in a position to minimize their appearance helps until you bite the bullet and go for it.

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Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:49 am      Reply with quote
I totally agree.I dont think exercise will fix a stringy neck because the chords have pulled away from the muscle, they need to be stitched back into place.If you have the face of angelina jolie and a stringy neck you're just ugly.Find the best board certified plastic surgeon and if you get your neck done might as well get other tweaks too.A lot of times drs will do a procedure and then do some of the procedures for free cuz they are already doing surgery anyway.
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Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:22 am      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
Ugh those pictures have motivated me to start hunting for the best neck surgeon I can afford!!

ITA about surgery for the stringy neck. Why mess around and waste time, just do it. I will.

Holding your head in a position to minimize their appearance helps until you bite the bullet and go for it.


LOL @ messing around. I suppose the reason some may opt to "mess around" instead of resorting to surgery is for the same reason some people prefer to exercise to get good bodies as opposed to going under the knife for a quick nip and tuck.

With the former, you can hope for improved muscle tone and elasticity and as we have seen, that is in addition to ridding yourself of the cords. With the latter, you get immediate results, but the muscles underneath continue to age and atrophy and the elasticity continues to deteriorate with time.

lucyluc wrote:
it depends on expression; sometimes they will show up, sometimes they wont. I know botox can sometimes help. Once the chords separate from the muscle I was told surgery is the only way to fix it. A stringy neck is really aging;if you have a smooth unwrinkled face and a stringy neck;its all for naught.I would rather have crows feet rather than a stringy neck.


lucyluc but isn't it normal that face and neck muscles should move and display an outward look that depends on the expression being made? To expect otherwise IMO is what's abnormal. Methinks the cosmetic surgery industry has brainwashed people so much that we now expect people to be like mannequins.

Neck cords showing because of an expression someone makes do not a stringy neck make, nor do they show aging, IMO. That would be like saying laugh lines that show up when people (including babies) smile are aging and should be "fixed".

Image

What I consider a stringy neck is one whose cords show even when the person isn't making an expression. And I have already shown with Karen's images that surgery is NOT the only way to fix that. Hers were truly in existence. They showed while she wasn't making an expression. But after a well-balanced exercise program, the cords disappeared completely!

I think loss of tone and elasticity and mass all contribute to the permanent cords that are the epitome of a stringy neck. Lack of elasticity in particular is why the neck still shows cording when one's face is at rest as in the case of Karen, albeit in her case, the cording was just in its early stages.

Here's an example of a young person making an angry expression and as you can see, his cords show too as in the lady above although to a less extent. And just because cords show with the expression, no honest person would call his neck stringy by any stretch of the imagination. And I can bet my bottom dollar that his neck returns to normal once he stops making that expression because his neck has all the integrity we lose as we age.

Image

Now my guess is Carolyn is probably 55-60 years older in the video below than that boy. One may point out that neck cords show up now and again as she talks or makes expressions--which is normal IMO--but the thing to notice is her elasticity is so good that her neck returns to showing no cords once she stops moving her muscles. Her neck is smooth and firm. Let's not forget, she's in her 60's in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFO1gGNt3Gg

And I dare say, her neck looks even better in The Brush video which was filmed a few years after that^^--which is further evidence that surgery isn't the only way to fix the neck to make it youthful looking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wDJ_ud7Los
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Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:42 pm      Reply with quote
The sagging skin that accompanies the cords, the underchin excess fat, and ironically the loss of subq fat in the neck area ... this also makes a person look old.

Matter of preference how one approaches it! All the exercise in the world wont get rid of the cords. It may beef up the muscles but the cords remain. Wink

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Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:53 am      Reply with quote
I agree fawnie. Carolyn looks good for being 65 but I dont think she looks young. She looks like an older woman who has aged well.I think her hairstyle sucks though!
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Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:41 am      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
The sagging skin that accompanies the cords, the underchin excess fat, and ironically the loss of subq fat in the neck area ... this also makes a person look old.

Matter of preference how one approaches it! All the exercise in the world wont get rid of the cords. It may beef up the muscles but the cords remain. Wink


lucyluc wrote:
I agree fawnie. Carolyn looks good for being 65 but I dont think she looks young. She looks like an older woman who has aged well.I think her hairstyle sucks though!


Looking good for one's age is precisely what those of us who do face exercises hope for. Looking young when one isn't is not "natural" and cosmetic surgery that attempts to make one younger than their years, rather than look good for one's age, IMO never looks good. For instance, Priscilla Presley looked like a clown when she tried to get her face to look like it did when she was 20 while she was in her 60's

She looked like this in her early 20's:

Image

In her 30's, she had a beautiful face for her age that did not look like her 20-year old face, and IMO was more beautiful than her 20-something year old face (Love the definition and contours she had in her 30's!):

Image

Then in her 60's, it appears she tried to recreate her 20-sth face and all people did was talk about how she looked like a clown--not to mention her bizarre lack of expression when she appeared on Dancing with the Stars with that face:

Image

Compare that bizarre look to Susan Sarandon's, who gets just enough work done to make her still look her age but good for her age (http://m.today.com/entertainment/susan-sarandon-admits-embracing-lipo-535707):

Image

The idea of getting work done shouldn't be to look like a freak, which is what happens when you try to make yourself look younger than you are, IMO. Susan Sarandon is usually described as aging gracefully or beautifully because her results look natural: she looks the way someone her age with good genes is expected to look.

As for it being a matter of preference whether one does exercises or gets cosmetic surgery, er...duh! I said that in my previous post. That it's no different from how some people PREFER to get beautiful bodies by working out while others opt to get them while lying down for a nip and tuck. That goes without saying!

As for the claim that all exercise in the world not be able to fix necks with the signs of aging fawnie listed, we will just have to agree to disagree because any unbiased eye can see that Karen's and Carolyn's necks have managed to accomplish what you guys believe only surgery can achieve without surgery. Anyone would have to be in total denial to claim that those necks and the followinf examples haven't had the aging signs fawnie listed erased by exercise, especially considering the "after" photos show an older version of that person!

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/shanti

http://www.flexeffect.com/Lalabeforeafter.htm

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/robert

http://www.flexeffect.com/beforeafter5.htm

Even though Facial Detox is a massage, I put it under face exercises because it does not involve any injections or knives, and you would have to be in denial to not see the improvement in the necks I posted and in these:

Image

Results of Face Aerobics:

ImageImage

Face Yoga neck results:

Image

ETA: Beauty is indeed in the eyes of the beholder because I LOVE Carolyn's hair. I don't know many 60-something-year old women with so much hair and I am glad she doesn't buy into the BS that women of a certain age should cut their hair. In fact, it is because of her hair that I actually ordered her haircare line!
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Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:33 am      Reply with quote
LOL! not trying to be contentious, but I maintain that once the platysma has separated exercise wont repair it. Im puzzled as to how it could. But I wont argue it. Im not a plastic surgeon but Ive talked to a few.

Im most interested to see the results of FlexEffect on Claudia's and Audra's necks once they reach "a certain age". Certainly if exercise can PREVENT platysmal separation/weakness they will be the proof, having done exercise since they were wee bairns themselves!

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Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:19 am      Reply with quote
I agree fawnie. Presley looks bad because she had a bad surgeon inject a filler not approved in her face, I dont know if it was engine oil or what but a bad dr(dont even know if he was a dr) messed her face up. You would think with her money she could afford the best.Jacqueline Smith I think looks great for her age(70?).A lot of photos before and after are not always truthful;depends on lighting; and how you hold your head.A lot of those stars might look good in photos but in person they can get hagged out. Most stars make the mistake of overfilling their lips;thats what makes them look very odd. Susan Sarandon, is well preserved but not young looking anymore.She finally pulled the trigger and got a nip tuck.
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Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:30 pm      Reply with quote
lucyluc wrote:
I agree fawnie. Presley looks bad because she had a bad surgeon inject a filler not approved in her face, I dont know if it was engine oil or what but a bad dr(dont even know if he was a dr) messed her face up. You would think with her money she could afford the best.Jacqueline Smith I think looks great for her age(70?).A lot of photos before and after are not always truthful;depends on lighting; and how you hold your head.A lot of those stars might look good in photos but in person they can get hagged out. Most stars make the mistake of overfilling their lips;thats what makes them look very odd. Susan Sarandon, is well preserved but not young looking anymore.She finally pulled the trigger and got a nip tuck.


Susan Sarandon, even according to surgeons, has the right idea. Of course she doesn't look young. Why should she? She isn't. She looks so natural that I would never have guessed she had any work done. I suppose it's all a matter of taste coz I love her look.

Jaclyn Smith also has the right idea because she isn't trying to get her face to look like it did when she was younger...

Image

...but is just doing minor tweaks so she looks like she is aging well. She does also have good genes working in her favor because her mother died at the age of 95 and looked like this:

Image

So she probably doesn't have to do much to look as she does--which is what I was saying: Looking one's best at one's age not trying to look younger is what gives natural looking results.

Priscilla P might have a bad filler that got her face lumpy and then the badly done shots froze it, but I do think she was trying to look like she did when she had a fuller face in her 20's. It's a mistake I keep seeing people who get fillers making: someone told them that fuller faces look young so they go crazy and end up looking weird.
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Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:18 pm      Reply with quote
The thing with photos is that they are just so deceptive. It's all about the lighting. The woman that does the facial detox is going to look better in the "after" photo just because her head is tilted up and that is going to make her neck and jowls look better. And maybe it's just me, but I can't even tell the difference between the before and after on Carolyn - different angle, different lighting, different background. I've seen Jaclyn Smith on TV and she looked nothing like those pictures - which are extremely flattering.

And I totally agree that the trick is to look "fresh" but not too young. You need to try to match the rest of your body. I once sat next to a woman on an airplane and I tried not to stare, but her face did not even come close to matching the rest of her body in color and texture. I am a fan of filler and think that it can work miracles in the right hands and under the right circumstances, but I agree that too much filler just makes a person look puffy and old.
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Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:22 pm      Reply with quote
Panda1 wrote:
The thing with photos is that they are just so deceptive. It's all about the lighting. The woman that does the facial detox is going to look better in the "after" photo just because her head is tilted up and that is going to make her neck and jowls look better. And maybe it's just me, but I can't even tell the difference between the before and after on Carolyn - different angle, different lighting, different background. I've seen Jaclyn Smith on TV and she looked nothing like those pictures - which are extremely flattering.

And I totally agree that the trick is to look "fresh" but not too young. You need to try to match the rest of your body. I once sat next to a woman on an airplane and I tried not to stare, but her face did not even come close to matching the rest of her body in color and texture. I am a fan of filler and think that it can work miracles in the right hands and under the right circumstances, but I agree that too much filler just makes a person look puffy and old.


Panda1, I do not believe any of the before after photos are taken to deceive. No one would be sendingt their photos to be put up if they were not thrilled about the changes they have that they would want them to be shown to the world. None of them are taken professionally. Problem is if the photos were taken by a professional then folks might suspect airbrushing. One really can't win with skeptics or the hyper-critical.

I had a similar discussion a couple of years ago where the claim was made that taking photos in bright light hides flaws. Logic tells me the opposite but anyway, to show that angles make little difference when changes are real, I took impromptu photos of my eyes at different angles and in different lighting. Methinks my eyes looked better in low light...just as I expected. If anything, people tend to avoid being seen when they are not happy with how they look, so that they want to stand in the light clearly shows a new confidence that has to be driven by new changes they are happy about. But can't make a mule drink water, I guess. Here's the discussion:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=36501&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=103

You say you don't see a change in Carolyn's neck. Her neck is better than most of the people I know, including myself and she's in her 60's and has been doing her program since her early fifties so IMO her program has worked so well to ensure her neck doesn't get stringy. So you not seeing a change just goes to show how well her program is working coz her neck isn't looking 65 years old. I'd love to see a neck that is that old that looks that good without needles and knives. It is not only not stringy, but it is firm and smooth with no horizontal bands from sag; she doesn't have turkey neck, she has no double chin, and she has no jowls. I do believe her when she says she had horizontal banding and has gotten rid of that with exercise. But even if she never had it, the fact that she doesn't now after years of doing her program and continually researching to keep it dynamic and to address changes she might see, IMO speaks volumes on the effectiveness of her program. With regard to photo angles giving a specific look, I think the idea that they are staged goes out the window when there are videos in which she is not just posing, but moving and her neck still looks as good as she claims.

As for Jaclyn Smith not looking like she does in that photo, with all due respect, I think you are nitpicking. She does indeed look good for her age or the paparazzi would've been sure to show us candids that show otherwise. Magazine images will always look polished and flawless because of airbrushing but she still looks good in candids and on TV, so anyone who says otherwise is not being fair or honest and giving credit where it's due.

I doubt anyone is perfect but there are people who look better than we would expect them to for their age and to not acknowledge that but instead focus on the flaws is just...Neutral I have no words. The Facial Detox lady's whole face looks so much better and that is in only 3 months and you are going to say lighting and head position are what makes her neck look better? Really? C'mon now!
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Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:54 pm      Reply with quote
Nonie, I don't think any of these people are deceptive or that any of these photos are staged, but I do think that photos in general can be deceptive and it is mostly about lighting and positioning. The pictures of Carolyn are difficult to compare because the after picture is more straight on and in the before picture she is kind of turned. I think she looks good in both pictures but I do think that the angle of her head in the before picture is what's causing the wrinkling in her neck. You could say that she has more wrinkles on the left side of her face in the after picture, but again, thatís just the difference in the angles of the pictures. The Jaclyn Smith photo is from 2010. She appeared on the CSI tv show this year and she looks much different. Iím not sure how to post pictures so here is a link. Scroll down to the fourth item and youíll see that sheís got some major neck issues. Keep scrolling and youíll see more photos where that doesnít seem to be the case. Iím not sure how that can be.
http://www.tvguide.com/celebrities/jaclyn-smith/news/155077

My point wasnít really so much about the pictures. It was more in support of your comment about trying to maintain a natural look while aging. I agree that non-invasive techniques are good and much less expensive, and that itís much harder (albeit not impossible) to keep that natural look if you decide to take a step further.
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Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:57 pm      Reply with quote
For pushing 70 Jacqueline Smith looks great. When women start playing with their lips,thats usually a mistake.It hard to get a natural look on lip filler because it can be unpredictable,its a crap shoot. Susan S and Jackie Smith look nice because they havent plumped their lips noticeably; AND they both have lightened up their hair, eyebrows and their makeup is not heavy.Priscilla Presley looks old because she has the Alvira look; dark hair, brows and dark lips;very aging.The biggest mistake older women make is RED lipstick.Heavy eye and face makeup will make you look 10 yrs older.I cant believe how many women make that mistake.There is a good book called How to not look old;they need to read it.
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Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:50 am      Reply with quote
"
Panda1 wrote:
Nonie, I don't think any of these people are deceptive or that any of these photos are staged, but I do think that photos in general can be deceptive and it is mostly about lighting and positioning. The pictures of Carolyn are difficult to compare because the after picture is more straight on and in the before picture she is kind of turned. I think she looks good in both pictures but I do think that the angle of her head in the before picture is what's causing the wrinkling in her neck. You could say that she has more wrinkles on the left side of her face in the after picture, but again, thatís just the difference in the angles of the pictures. The Jaclyn Smith photo is from 2010. She appeared on the CSI tv show this year and she looks much different. Iím not sure how to post pictures so here is a link. Scroll down to the fourth item and youíll see that sheís got some major neck issues. Keep scrolling and youíll see more photos where that doesnít seem to be the case. Iím not sure how that can be.
http://www.tvguide.com/celebrities/jaclyn-smith/news/155077

My point wasnít really so much about the pictures. It was more in support of your comment about trying to maintain a natural look while aging. I agree that non-invasive techniques are good and much less expensive, and that itís much harder (albeit not impossible) to keep that natural look if you decide to take a step further.


I get what you are saying, which is understandable since time is passing but when you said that she looks nothing like those pictures, I thought you meant more than just the neck because that is the only thing I find standing out as old. Otherwise I find her face to look amazing for someone in her 60's...and I find her face not to have changed much between 2010 and 2012 as shown below. I find her to be the sort of person you can say "Don't you know how to get old?" to and not be accused of too much exaggeration/flattery:

2010:
Image

2011:
Image

2012:
Image

But yes, are right about it being hard to look natural with over-the-top changes. I think surgeons don't consider long term so that they do too much that make future tweaks impossible to get right. It was actually subsequent results of her mother's plastic surgery that made CFF Carolyn look for an alternative. The first work looked good but over time every tweak made her mom look so unnatural that she made up her mind not to go that route. And lucyluc is right about lips being indeed one of the areas most abused. I am mad at the doctors who make such changes that make their patients laughing stocks. Whatever happened to "First, do no harm"? Turning your patients into freaks of nature is doing harm IMO.

On Carolyn's website are many photos showing her frontal view. I don't thinks she's ever had a stringy neck, but she has had one without tone and that was beginning to age like her face which had sag, jowls, etc but her neck no longer has those signs of aging. She started face exercises before her neck got stringy and has kept it from looking like, say, Jaclyn Smith's has in recent years with exercise; which was the point I was trying to make: that doing exercises will not necessarily make your neck stringy. I believe only two of Carolyn's photos in her 60's show a side angle, but the videos and all others show frontal views. I don't know many instructors who show as many progress photos as she does so I don't think a handful of non-frontals take away from the fact that her face and neck look good. If anything, I think those side photos show more of her face's tone...like her beautiful jawline. Or you could ignore them and just focus on frontals and see how well exercises have worked for her. Here are two pages of her photos:

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/carolyn

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/pictures-of-carolyn
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Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:48 am      Reply with quote
For pushing 70 Jacqueline Smith looks great. When women start playing with their lips,thats usually a mistake.It hard to get a natural look on lip filler because it can be unpredictable,its a crap shoot. Susan S and Jackie Smith look nice because they havent plumped their lips noticeably; AND they both have lightened up their hair, eyebrows and their makeup is not heavy.Priscilla Presley looks old because she has the Alvira look; dark hair, brows and dark lips;very aging.The biggest mistake older women make is RED lipstick.Heavy eye and face makeup will make you look 10 yrs older.I cant believe how many women make that mistake.There is a good book called How to not look old;they need to read it.
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Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:48 am      Reply with quote
Jaclyn smith and susan sarandon also look serene, dont they. they look composed and relaxed. They never looked like they were trying too hard.
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Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:18 am      Reply with quote
Nonie what is that picture with the person being injected in the neck?Is that for botox? I heard botox can be used for cording in the neck but results vary from person to person;its expensive too and you have to keep doing it,a necklift might be cheaper in the long run.
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Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:05 am      Reply with quote
lucyluc wrote:
Nonie what is that picture with the person being injected in the neck?Is that for botox? I heard botox can be used for cording in the neck but results vary from person to person;its expensive too and you have to keep doing it,a necklift might be cheaper in the long run.


lucyluc that is Dr Alain Tenenbaum treating her with Endopeel (carbolic acid, peanuts oil and menthol).

Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBXQLgVAGHo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Naturally Dr Tenenbaum, who invented Endopeel, thinks the world of it and deems it safe (www.endopeel.com) but not everyone agrees that it's safer than Botox: http://cosmetica-clinic.blogspot.com/2011/07/new-treatments-endopeel.html?m=1 I know nothing about it but hopefully those links give plenty of info on it.

According to posts upthread by I think Needl, sometimes a neck lift may not be ideal perhaps in people who don't have a lot of loose skin or whose cords are caused by tension so a relaxant like Botox is chosen. Here are various doctors' suggestions on fixing neck cording: http://tinyurl.com/krx7o3v
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Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:50 pm      Reply with quote
I noticed Jacqueline smith is starting to resemble Ann Turkel as she gets older. I do think another actress, Barbara Bach looks great.She can still wear long hair. She wears little makeup and has not messed with her lips;she looks great.
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Sun Jul 07, 2013 6:53 pm      Reply with quote
By the way Nonie I think you look great and I never thought you ever had anything wrong with your face to begin with.,you always looked beautiful.
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