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Neck cording

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miracleskin29
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Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:42 pm      Reply with quote
This is a great thread. I don't have neck cording yet but want to prevent it. I have a very slight sag in the neck/jaw line area that I am hoping to clear up with cff and pico toner.

Nonie , Thank You for sharing your results and also the encouragement with CFF

I wanted to share: My ballet teacher has a wonderful young looking neck and she is in mid to late 60's! I am beginning pointe, and when she works with me she is very meticuoulous about correcting me every time my neck muscles bulge out when I plie/releve etc. I also hold tension in my jaw/chin. I am thinking that this type of attention to relaxing the neck/releasing the jaw,etc may be helpful in preventing neck cords


maybe the yamuna ball would be good for this as well? I have used it but it is just hard to do everything. I did notice a more relaxed feeling in my face and neck when it was doing it

Thanks everyone for this great thread and your input

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Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:39 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Miracleskin, I just started back doing the Yamuna ball routine. I do the 5 or 15 routine from the PDF. I just couldn't get into the longer session. The shorter ones aren't so bad.

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Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:11 pm      Reply with quote
miracleskin29 wrote:
I wanted to share: My ballet teacher has a wonderful young looking neck and she is in mid to late 60's! I am beginning pointe, and when she works with me she is very meticuoulous about correcting me every time my neck muscles bulge out when I plie/releve etc. I also hold tension in my jaw/chin. I am thinking that this type of attention to relaxing the neck/releasing the jaw,etc may be helpful in preventing neck cords

Absolutely miracleskin29! Im convinced that crunches, V-ups and other exercises like that contribute to the platysma separation and development of prominent cords. Id rather have a yoga belly anyway!

Good idea about consciously relaxing the jaw and neck. Beautiful posture can be practiced until it comes naturally. Spot yourself from time to time. And especially dont hunch over the keyboard! If you need to put a sticky on the screen to unclench the face and neck muscles, do it!

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Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:48 pm      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:

Absolutely miracleskin29! Im convinced that crunches, V-ups and other exercises like that contribute to the platysma separation and development of prominent cords. Id rather have a yoga belly anyway!


Totally agree. On both fronts ...

Plus those crunches, etc, aren't really beneficial anyway (and hurt more than just your platysma).
There are much better ways to strengthen your core.

How are the Yamuna balls coming?
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Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:23 pm      Reply with quote
For me? Yamuna balls are a nice adjunct to exercise/massage! The ones I have are these:

Image

so that you can see them in relation to the size of a DVD case.

I use the smaller one on my face and the larger one on my back to stretch it out and roll around on it. Feels great and my posture has improved I think!

Using another set of weighted balls I do a complete workout on the floor and then move on to kettlebells. Nice to change it up all the time!

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Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:26 am      Reply with quote
Tom Hagerty has a new video showing an exercise for working the neck. At 81, he really does look good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXPbdmGMf2k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Spanish version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E0zPSqyTHM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:59 am      Reply with quote
Thank you for sharing, Nonie! He looks really good. I'm going to try this. Smile
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Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:05 am      Reply with quote
I have this set too and I have to say I've done facial exercises of all sorts for a very long time, but was really pleasantly surprised by the results this kit gave me. It really opened my eyes better than any facial exercise program and its so relaxing. The dvd is a bit infuriating slow, and has a lot of unnecessary talking but once you learn the routine you are good to go and I think this makes an excellent edition to any routine going. I am going to order one of her full body kits soon (any one have one and got any recommendations?).
fawnie wrote:
For me? Yamuna balls are a nice adjunct to exercise/massage! The ones I have are these:

Image

so that you can see them in relation to the size of a DVD case.

I use the smaller one on my face and the larger one on my back to stretch it out and roll around on it. Feels great and my posture has improved I think!

Using another set of weighted balls I do a complete workout on the floor and then move on to kettlebells. Nice to change it up all the time!
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Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:59 am      Reply with quote
Hi Fawnie and TheresaMary, I ordered the yellow body ball and the foot saver kit years ago. I can't really comment on whether it was a good workout because I didn't keep it up.

I ended up ordering The miracle ball method kit by Elaine Petrone. It isn't a workout routine but if you are looking for something to relieve pain and help reshape your body. I really like this. I don't do the routine enough but when I do it really helps.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Miracle-Ball-Method-Included/dp/0761128689/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374692264&sr=8-1&keywords=the+miracle+ball+method

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Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:42 pm      Reply with quote
Yes, good ol' Yamuna! And also her bodyrolling....

I've been checking out a coupla other ball systems as well, haven't actually purchased but probably will soon (I guess you could just call me a ball collector!! Very Happy )

Yoga tuneup balls and MELT method. These are more for body, but I think they can also be applied to face and neck with some creativity.
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Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:50 pm      Reply with quote
And wow, good old Tom - look at those cheeks! Thanks for posting the link, another interesting ex.
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Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:13 am      Reply with quote
CookieD wrote:
Hi Miracleskin, I just started back doing the Yamuna ball routine. I do the 5 or 15 routine from the PDF. I just couldn't get into the longer session. The shorter ones aren't so bad.


Hi CookieD, I actually hadnt thought to do the shorter routine. Are you getting good results?

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miracleskin29
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Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:25 am      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
Absolutely miracleskin29! Im convinced that crunches, V-ups and other exercises like that contribute to the platysma separation and development of prominent cords. Id rather have a yoga belly anyway!

Good idea about consciously relaxing the jaw and neck. Beautiful posture can be practiced until it comes naturally. Spot yourself from time to time. And especially dont hunch over the keyboard! If you need to put a sticky on the screen to unclench the face and neck muscles, do it!


Yes I am really working on this. good idea about the sticky... It makes sense that over using the neck muscles in the wrong way could lead to neck cording. a couple of weeks ago my teacher had me use the theracane to work on tension right where the shoulders join the neck. we both stood side to side in the mirror to look at the results and I was my neck seemed to look better and I would say that her neck and shoulder area has a much more graceful and open look than mine! she is about 15 years older . i am motivated to do all this now, lol

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Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:22 pm      Reply with quote
miracleskin29 wrote:
CookieD wrote:
Hi Miracleskin, I just started back doing the Yamuna ball routine. I do the 5 or 15 routine from the PDF. I just couldn't get into the longer session. The shorter ones aren't so bad.


Hi CookieD, I actually hadnt thought to do the shorter routine. Are you getting good results?


I am getting good results on the lines on my forehead area. The results do not last all day but they are lasting longer the more I do the routine. Not sure I see any other differences yet in other areas.

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Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:41 am      Reply with quote
I recently got into a discussion about neck cords and whether it is really possible to eliminate them once they have become evident. Of course my answer was a resounding yes, even though I don't have personal experience. The evidence I have seen and share here left me without doubt.

But as I had already shared all the examples of success I shared here and still the question remained, I started to look for more examples. It then dawned on me that progress photos I share ad nauseum to show that hereditary bags can be eliminated actually showed neck cord reversal so well that it looks as if the skin got vacuumed back against the neck muscles.

In particular compare the February 2005 neck which shows slight cords with the February 2006 neck which looks as if the skin has been vacuum-wrapped around the neck. (It would have been nice to see the Sept 2004 neck but maybe she was so unhappy with it she preferred to keep it hidden)

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/margarita

Hope that further offers encouragement....
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Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:34 am      Reply with quote
Not saying it cant be done, but Im not convinced, sorry!, by that set of pictures. In the Feb 2005 pic she appears to be holding her head slightly forward and chin up, which makes cords pop out. In the June 2005 picture she is holding her head back slightly or neutral which makes them disappear.

Surely the cords didnt *disappear* in that short time - I think its just the way she was holding her head in the first shot that made them appear more prominent and in subsequent shots she holds her head differently. In the last shot she wears a collar to obscure them completely!

Maybe others have had good results tho!

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Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:40 am      Reply with quote
One person who has "neck cords" really badly is actress Kirsten Gum. She used to be on a show my husband loves called "What's my car worth" and her neck looked really, really bad. I've always thought she was very pretty and she's not particularly old (she was born in 1972) but she was only on that show for about one season until she was replaced. I suspect it's because the neck just didn't look good. Especially in full daylight.


It's really hard to find any videos of that show back in those days. I found one but it's not outside in full daylight like so many of them were so the neck chords are harder to see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKeJ8s3_EUg

The shows taken outside in full daylight showed her neck cords well and her neck just did NOT look good. And I like Kirsten Gum. I've always thought she was very pretty.


A couple of her photos show them, too:

Image

Image


Image


Image

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Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:42 am      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
Not saying it cant be done, but Im not convinced, sorry!, by that set of pictures. In the Feb 2005 pic she appears to be holding her head slightly forward and chin up, which makes cords pop out. In the June 2005 picture she is holding her head back slightly or neutral which makes them disappear.

Surely the cords didnt *disappear* in that short time - I think its just the way she was holding her head in the first shot that made them appear more prominent and in subsequent shots she holds her head differently. In the last shot she wears a collar to obscure them completely!

Maybe others have had good results tho!


Well fawnie you are entitled to your opinion but there is no way you can convince me there are cords in this Feb 2006 neck.

Image

That neck is the complete opposite of neck cords. The two parts of the neck that usually hang creating a concave shape are sucked back so that skin is back and we have a convex shape.

Heck if we are going to start saying neck cords are the simple formation that occurs depending on how we hold our neck, then EGADS that poor boy earlier in this thread might as well consider a neck lift. Come on now! The neck cords people are trying to remove here are not the sort that appear because of how you hold your head. They are the sort you are stuck with because your platysma muscles are loose. I bet my bottom dollar that in Feb 2006, she could not have been able to hold her head in a way to make cords show unless she made a face like that boy earlier in the thread. Put another way, that Feb 2006 is more toned than all previous neck images. If you look at the June 2005 pic vs the Feb 2006 pic, the increase in skin firming is undeniable. Whether she has cords in the photo after the Feb 2006 one is neither here nor there. If she stopped exercising even for a while, things could go south--as many of us could attest to. Even I with my headstart, if I go for sometime without doing face exercises, my face start to show sign of sag too.

In any case, I was more blown away by her pics because her neck was not even the focus in those photos. I don't think there is any description referring to it. So trying to stage a particular neck appearance seems unlikely. But I am not surprised by the doubt you display. It seems to be the norm on forums that any time photos are posted that are not touched up, people will nitpick and find reasons not to believe them. But post a Photoshopped perfect photo with abnormally white flat eyes that are a dead giveaway or post only one photo with no others to show cumulative improvement and oohing and aahing is deafening. In fact don't even post a photo but just tell us you had this miraculous change, and the cult movement those words create is out of this world.

This is not the only example I posted in this thread but to me it is the most impressive. In 2005-2006, my friend and fellow face exerciser Chuck used to be obsessed with necks that looked like that Feb 2006 photo. I never understood the obsession. But now I think it is because it is as far away from neck cords as you can get. As AngelaE8654 has shown, real neck cords do not disappear because of how you hold your head. There is no way Kirsten can hold her head to make it look like Margarita's Feb 2006 neck, which is very different from her Feb 2005 neck. And there is no way Feb 2005 Margarita could have held her neck to make it look like that of Feb 2006 Margarita.
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Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:28 pm      Reply with quote
Jane Grote Abell, from Donatos Pizza did an "Undercover Boss" episode. Her disguise was good and she looked pretty young. But her neck cords still showed and I was surprised that one of the young men employees actually thought she was close to his age.


Here's a "behind the scenes" video of that show where you can see what I mean:

http://www.cbs.com/shows/undercover_boss/video/81DqFa5AAnHKfxg1OebQIxUmeXPZf3sJ/undercover-boss-behind-the-scenes-donatos-/

Image


Image


Image

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Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:20 am      Reply with quote
I'm also not so convinced by this I have to say.

Not just to echo what Fawnie's ssid here already, but there are some drastic changes with the lighting in all the shots, and the fact that the last photo has her smiling, outside and her hair is coloured all gives a different look to her face for sure.

For me personally when I look at her, I think she is a very pretty woman but I'm not convinced that when neck chords arrive, you can easily get rid of them without surgery. Sorry but want to be upfront here about it.

Also I want to share that another thing that I think has a major effect on the neck too is rapid weight loss. Even if you lose weight sensibly, when you lose weight the neck becomes more visible and prominent too. Plus sunscreen for most people they apply to their faces and forget their necks too.
fawnie wrote:
Not saying it cant be done, but Im not convinced, sorry!, by that set of pictures. In the Feb 2005 pic she appears to be holding her head slightly forward and chin up, which makes cords pop out. In the June 2005 picture she is holding her head back slightly or neutral which makes them disappear.

Surely the cords didnt *disappear* in that short time - I think its just the way she was holding her head in the first shot that made them appear more prominent and in subsequent shots she holds her head differently. In the last shot she wears a collar to obscure them completely!

Maybe others have had good results tho!
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Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:26 am      Reply with quote
Y'all can speak for yourselves. I know if I personally had failed at fixing something, I would be saying the same thing too. I know what I see. The neck Margarita had showed a hint of neck cords and was loose. I tried to move my head around to create the look she had in Feb 2005. Could not make it happen. Why? Because I do not have cords. I see cords in the Feb 2005 pic shown below. If you wanna say it is how she held her head, then go ahead if it makes you sleep better. But anyone can see that the cords she had on the left are non existent on the right:

Image Image Image

Looking at all three pictures I do not see how anyone can deny the improvement in tone moving from left to right. I DARE you to reproduce the same photos taken in one day since after all if cords never go once you get them, then it should be possible to dupe these results right?

Anyone with an open mind (ahem) can see that neck progressively got smoother and tighter. But since to some of us photos are not as convincing as words with no receipts/evidence as I never see anyone questioning empty statements without proof the way they question certain photos, here are some statements echoing what I see without any photos:

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/theresa-le

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/steve-l

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/elena-r

Another series of photos that to me show the tightening I see in Margarita. Again show me your neck looking like picture 1 then like picture 3 taken minutes apart. Rolling Eyes

Image Image Image

What I find odd is when fawnie started CFF, this is what she posted:

Quote:
Well I stand corrected! Ive been doing CFF for about 2 weeks now and see a dramatic improvement in my budding neck cords. Saved me $5000 for a neck lift already! 

I couldnt even lift my head off the floor at first for a count of 10 but now I can do the full count of 40. I too experienced neck pain when doing other neck exercises but not with CFF. And I was afraid exercises would only make the cords pop out more - I WAS WRONG! Strengthening the entire neck builds the muscles and firms the skin to cover the cords! Who wants a scrawny old-lady neck? You know the ones I mean: they look like turtles with skinny wrinkly necks and big heads. 

Not to denigrate any other programs, but I feel like CFF explains in great detail the Qs that I have before I even ask them. Her website is jam-packed with useful infos about the exercises and skin/muscles. The DVD/CD combo is great for seeing Carolyn do the exercises and having a buddy in the morning to exercise with, but you can go to her website and see the exercises explained in written form too. How generous is that: you dont even need to spend any $$ if you dont want to. But really I feel she deserves the money for the work she does for us. 

Big thumbs up Carolyn! I only hope I can look at great as you do!
Source

So there you are! Her statement that in just two weeks there was a "dramatic improvement in her budding neck cords" no one questioned. No one challenged her on this claiming it is impossible to get rid of cords once they are budding. Her mere words were proof enough. I got an email (not talking about the PM someone here sent me where she was now considering CFF) discussing how encouraging her words were.

Without pics, but simply claims of things happening in a short time, and folks are convinced. But post pics, and all manner of explanations why they are not real will be given. And oh that lame excuse of lighting.... Rolling Eyes I must have supernatural eyesight because there is no change of lighting that can make me not see folds and saggy skin. If you all think that you fool people by only going on dates in dimly lit restaurants or very bright ones for those with weird logic Laughing sorry to inform you but the discerning eye can see right through the shadows or glare.

In the past, the claim was that after photos are taken in bright light to hide flaws. So I took my own photos in poor lighting and showed how much better I looked in low light. Duh! Heck even the Beast probably looks hawt in low light. Recently Christine made progress videos of her microcurrent results. The lighting issue was mentioned and I am so glad she posted this photo (below) because it thwarts the theory that after photos are taken in bright light to hide flaws. Well, here is an after in low light and it shows a remarkable improvement in skin firmness and lift:

Image

In fact, in case now we have changed our theory to "after photos are taken in low light because low light hides flaws", I did what was done before and froze her final video and put the image beside the other two photos and you can see both last photos show better lift and smoothing out (firmness) than the first photo, regardless of lighting:

Image

Another thing: I don't know people who deliberately pose in a way to bring out the worst in them. Most people are so vain that they hope they look their best when they take photos or they try to take genuine ones in the case where they are trying to get help as with face exercises. When I took photos of my before face to send Carolyn, I was not sure CFF would work for me so that I would be trying to make myself look terrible in order to later show dramatic improvement (which would be madness anyway because what good would it do me?). I tried to take as authentic a photo of myself as possible because tracking progress was more important TO ME than to anyone else. I wanted to see natural me and to be able to compare if I would look better with the program. From reading the reviews and corresponding with several people who do CFF, they send Carolyn images of themselves so she can see what they want fixed and hopefully guide them. This is no joke to us so that we would be displaying what isn't real as seems to be implied when people accuse photos of being staged. And what sense is there in claiming later that a problem you had is gone when it isn't because you are faking results? How does that help YOU the subject? Makes no darn sense.

I suggest to you that the feedback and photos are taken as best as the people can manage to show where they are, and oftentimes the photos do not even do the real thing justice. But they are the best we can do. I actually find it a bit rude for people who have never posted their own photos to nitpick. Makes me think they must have nothing at all going for them so they have to knock others down in order to feel tall.

Now, just coz I know biases exist, what do the naysayers think of the before and after (respectively) below:

ImageImage

Is there an improvement in the neck cording or are we being duped here too? Also how does the tone here compare to the tone in the necks I posted before? See any difference? Now if you say there is no change, then you imply that the person who submitted the photos and the one who found them impressive enough to post are crazy to claim an improvement or are trying to fool us, which IMO would be ridiculous. Why would either do that? To embarrass themselves? C'mon nah! And if you claim the change is greater here than in Margarita's year apart photos (I think the change in the pics I just posted was over a shorter period than Margarita's time span), then we have nothing to discuss because clearly your perception is different from mine and that of the people who submit and who post these photos. And I am afraid, I prefer the opinion of the experienced and discerning eye (mine included) to make determinations of what is what. Call it bias, but FWIW, I do not even like the program the person in these final pics does but even I can be honest to say there is an improvement in the neck tone albeit not as much as in Margarita or Karen (second set of pics)...but we are also looking at different starting points and timespan and programs, so we cannot compare fairly. Still I see improvement in tone even in that short time.

The problem I think is when people try to be jacks of all trades, doing every program under the sun, then use their experience to make sweeping statements as if gospel when so many have experienced the opposite. Because unless they are 100% sure the extras they are adding to their regimen are enhancing what they are already doing (as microcurrents seem to do), which I highly doubt, folks probably undo progress from one program with exercises from another and so are stuck in one place. This may be why people make claims like "cords cannot be eliminated". Either that or they are doing a program that is limited in its abilities. I should also mention that this being all over the place may also cost them the mastery of any program. In a previous discussion someone claimed Carolyn's Brush was like Tonya Zavasta's massage which was far from the truth. As much as Carolyn echoes herself all over her website on how her program is based on making sure things are taut before sliding over skin, this jack of all trades argued with me on that point when it is very clearly stated on the video for the Brush...when I pointed out that there was that difference for one. If that lack of attention to detail alone is not a clue as to why some people don't get results, then I don't know what is. And personally, someone like that is not someone I put a lot of stock in, especially when we have never seen proof of any of her own claims of success.

In my journey with face exercises, I have always been able to pinpoint what was happening to me because I didn't have anything getting in the way of what the program I was doing could accomplish. I have been able to honestly attribute my changes to the programs I was doing because there is no contradiction likely to be happening with an exercise from somewhere else.

Anyway, to each her own. Whether you think you can get rid of cords or not, you are 100% right about that; that is what your mentality will bring to fruition. I thank God that I still have the hope and excitement of little children; the wide-eyed kind that believes anything is possible. And so far, I have found this to be true for me. Maybe my faith is also because I happen to believe in an Omnipotent God for whom nothing is impossible and so even when experts tell me stuff, I have been able to rise above their theories and prove them wrong.

I dunno. To each his/her own. But I hope my post gave those whose minds are not mulish, some hope.
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Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:52 am      Reply with quote
Well, Nonie, the before and afters of the first 2 women are convincing, especially the second lady because we see more of her neck.
The third person is iffy to me. I see an improvement, but is it the light, I don't know. But the first 2 sets of pics have a definite improvement in the neck.
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Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:11 am      Reply with quote
Marie-Andrée wrote:
Well, Nonie, the before and afters of the first 2 women are convincing, especially the second lady because we see more of her neck.
The third person is iffy to me. I see an improvement, but is it the light, I don't know. But the first 2 sets of pics have a definite improvement in the neck.


Hi Marie-Andrée:

I rarely see you post but when you do I have to say it is refreshing. If there is one person whom I have seen who is honest to a fault and isn't biased, it is you. I remember in one discussion we did not agree on some images and I could see exactly what you were talking about and where you were coming from. Unlike some people who just argue for the heck of it, you had good reason and it was evident. But when presented with more examples to show you why I disagreed with you, because you are open-minded, you saw exactly what I was talking about and were not afraid to admit that you stood corrected.

I appreciate your feedback and posts because I always know I can count on getting new insight (like recently, the water-stroke connection) guidance or direction from them--even if it is to show me how unclear I am in my posting so I can do better in explaining myself.

So thanks again for confirming that I am not crazy, nor are the people who submitted, and those who posted, those photos. Smile
Nonie aka AD
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Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:13 pm      Reply with quote
LaughingLaughingLaughing

I just realized that when I posted Christine's photos, they came out so tiny you can hardly see them. LOL! I was in a waiting room so was posting from my phone and only just now looked at the pics on my PC...and I'm so tickled that they came out so tiny. Almost as tiny as they appeared on my phone. Hahaha!Image

Here are better-sized pics showing that whether in low light or bright light, the improvement in her face is undeniable:

Image

But seeing the videos is actually more convincing than the pics, so here they are:

Day 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaYooJC3Gao
Day 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KGfsCzc7oA
Day 12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8r4au1HFCs

For anyone who simply jumped to this post and hasn't seen my second to last post thus far and so might be wondering what this post has to do with neck cording, it doesn't. I just happened to use Christine's pics earlier in a post to show that lighting does not get in the way of seeing results but when I posted her pics to show what I meant, I accidentally posted this:

ImageImage I can't stop laughing!
girltwocb
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Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:20 pm      Reply with quote
Help me! I'm shrinking! Lolololololol!!! Shock

(That's me in those tiny photos)

Christine

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