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Keliu
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Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:11 pm      Reply with quote
We're going way off topic here - but the subject of vitamins and supplements is something that I feel very strongly about. It constantly amazes me the amount of people here who say they take huge amounts of supplements, people are spending hundreds of dollars a week on them. All the current research, however, states that taking supplements is unnecessary and can even be harmful. Contrary to popular belief, if people make the right food choices, a good diet is easier to achieve today than at any time in the past.

Please read this recent article on the subject from the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/dont-take-your-vitamins.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:58 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
We're going way off topic here - but the subject of vitamins and supplements is something that I feel very strongly about. It constantly amazes me the amount of people here who say they take huge amounts of supplements, people are spending hundreds of dollars a week on them. All the current research, however, states that taking supplements is unnecessary and can even be harmful. Contrary to popular belief, if people make the right food choices, a good diet is easier to achieve today than at any time in the past.

Please read this recent article on the subject from the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/dont-take-your-vitamins.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


Keliu,
I know you don't live in the U.S., but the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA would love nothing more than to take away our supplements. In fact, they've launching more and more "pharamceutical" supplements and would love to own the entire piece of the pie. Make no mistake about it, the New York Times and other mainstream media outlets skew the truth all the time. They want to keep us dumbed down, sick and dependent upon doctors with prescription pads in hand. IF our food sources were perfect, and our water was clean and safe and our world wasn't overly poluted then NO we would not need any supplements at all. But, sadly that's not the case. ~ Aprile
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Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:15 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:


Keliu,
I know you don't live in the U.S., but the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA would love nothing more than to take away our supplements. In fact, they've launching more and more "pharamceutical" supplements and would love to own the entire piece of the pie. Make no mistake about it, the New York Times and other mainstream media outlets skew the truth all the time. They want to keep us dumbed down, sick and dependent upon doctors with prescription pads in hand. IF our food sources were perfect, and our water was clean and safe and our world wasn't overly poluted then NO we would not need any supplements at all. But, sadly that's not the case. ~ Aprile


No, I don't live in the US - and I believe that is why I often have a completely different viewpoint on health than many of those that do. I'm going to make some very generalised statements - but I think they're pertinent. In Australia, in general, we trust our doctors - we certainly don't see them as there just to make a quick buck out of us. I think this difference is mainly due to the fact that we have a health care system - America has none. If my doctor writes me out a prescription, I simply go to the pharmacy and get it filled - no insurance company intervenes and tells me I can't have it. In addition, many of our medications are subsidised by the government so we get them at a much cheaper price than in the US. So we don't see the pharmaceutical companies as "Enemy No. 1".

Also, with regard to "alternative" practices such as acupuncture or Bowen Therapy or whatever, we can claim for them via our health system - so we don't really see them as being necessarily "alternative".

If my doctor tells me I need an operation, I get it done - and then apply to our health care body to get the necessary refund (although that is slowly getting eaten into, but that's another issue). When I saw my ENT specialist re having a sinus op he told me that he'd been working in the states and that if he told one of his patients that they needed an op, they would go and get a second, third, fourth opinion from other doctors - they were so mistrusting. That (generally) doesn't happen here.

With regard to supplements - the intake of those must be growing here because our pharmacies and supermarket shelves are bulging with them. There's a vitamin for everything you can think of. But there is constantly talk on our chat shows and news that they are unnecessary. Nutritionists and all current research state that if you eat a well-rounded diet, they are useless. In fact, every bottle here carries a "warning" stating that if your diet is adequate vitamin intake is unnecessary.

Also, the belief that our food is no longer good or nutritious for us is nonsense. Read some history and you will discover that we now have an abundant supply of healthy food at our disposal (note I'm referring to first world countries here - much of the third world's population is still under duress). The problem with America's poor diet is simply a matter of choice. I saw the Jamie Oliver programme where he was lecturing in schools. There were children who had never laid eyes on a tomato and who were given pizza for breakfast.

This statement will be like waving a red flag but ..... None of my friends or my daughters' friends are as obsessed with health concerns as many of you here. You all seem to be doing the most wacko things and taking extraordinary amounts of supplements just to to make it through the day. I admit - I don't get it! And I think it's because I'm coming from a totally different perspective on everything. It seems to me that everyone in the US is looking for a conspiracy theory and the belief that the government bodies just want to keep the population sick just appears insane to me.

ETA: Just another little story to demonstrate a difference in attitudes - I had just had a hysterectomy and sitting at home on the couch watching TV - watching Oprah. Unbelievably the subject of the programme was "how women should deal with the trauma of having a hysterectomy". Women in the audience were standing up and telling their stories - all crying and carrying on like it was the end of the world. One woman said she didn't even feel like a woman anymore - and she was past child bearing age and had already had children. I thought they were all mad - because I lay there celebrating! Never again would I have to buy a packet of tampons, never again would I have to go through all that monthly hassle - I was free!!!

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Keliu
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Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:09 pm      Reply with quote
Aprile - you better read this article:

Quote:
Some people who buy supplements to avoid Big Pharma drug companies may find themselves doing business with Big Herba, instead.
Some of the same companies that mass-produce drugs in huge chemical labs also churn out vitamin and herbal pills sold in bottles with rainbows, sunrises and flowers on their labels.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/06/10/many-vitamins-supplements-made-by-big-pharmaceutical-companies/#ixzz2cBybdtoB

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:52 am      Reply with quote
Keliu,

Although I do have a pico and am learning about it thro trial and error, I do agree with what you have just posted!

Here in the UK we have a similar NHS set=up, which the majority of us really celebrate, we are tremendously lucky to have this Free Health Care at the point of entry, and as was originally proposed free from to cradle to grave. Despite our conservative/libdem governments best efforts!
For the moment at least and thankfully, all our GPs are paid by the NHS and their decisions are not made on account of insurance or anythin g else.
Luckily also or Pharma companies are not hand-in-glove with them .I should know I used to me in medical sales, and it was a real challenge to get any GP to even consider using
what I was promoting.
It was all based on efficacy and whether what I was promoting Was actually better than anything else.

I do get tired of the constant battering that Pharma/Health service providers get here, perhaps that is because I am from a country where its health service IS Actually a service for its people and NOT Big business

ENuuff of the rant sorry for the derailment

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:57 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
aprile wrote:


Keliu,
I know you don't live in the U.S., but the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA would love nothing more than to take away our supplements. In fact, they've launching more and more "pharamceutical" supplements and would love to own the entire piece of the pie. Make no mistake about it, the New York Times and other mainstream media outlets skew the truth all the time. They want to keep us dumbed down, sick and dependent upon doctors with prescription pads in hand. IF our food sources were perfect, and our water was clean and safe and our world wasn't overly poluted then NO we would not need any supplements at all. But, sadly that's not the case. ~ Aprile


No, I don't live in the US - and I believe that is why I often have a completely different viewpoint on health than many of those that do. I'm going to make some very generalised statements - but I think they're pertinent. In Australia, in general, we trust our doctors - we certainly don't see them as there just to make a quick buck out of us. I think this difference is mainly due to the fact that we have a health care system - America has none. If my doctor writes me out a prescription, I simply go to the pharmacy and get it filled - no insurance company intervenes and tells me I can't have it. In addition, many of our medications are subsidised by the government so we get them at a much cheaper price than in the US. So we don't see the pharmaceutical companies as "Enemy No. 1".

Also, with regard to "alternative" practices such as acupuncture or Bowen Therapy or whatever, we can claim for them via our health system - so we don't really see them as being necessarily "alternative".

If my doctor tells me I need an operation, I get it done - and then apply to our health care body to get the necessary refund (although that is slowly getting eaten into, but that's another issue). When I saw my ENT specialist re having a sinus op he told me that he'd been working in the states and that if he told one of his patients that they needed an op, they would go and get a second, third, fourth opinion from other doctors - they were so mistrusting. That (generally) doesn't happen here.

With regard to supplements - the intake of those must be growing here because our pharmacies and supermarket shelves are bulging with them. There's a vitamin for everything you can think of. But there is constantly talk on our chat shows and news that they are unnecessary. Nutritionists and all current research state that if you eat a well-rounded diet, they are useless. In fact, every bottle here carries a "warning" stating that if your diet is adequate vitamin intake is unnecessary.

Also, the belief that our food is no longer good or nutritious for us is nonsense. Read some history and you will discover that we now have an abundant supply of healthy food at our disposal (note I'm referring to first world countries here - much of the third world's population is still under duress). The problem with America's poor diet is simply a matter of choice. I saw the Jamie Oliver programme where he was lecturing in schools. There were children who had never laid eyes on a tomato and who were given pizza for breakfast.

This statement will be like waving a red flag but ..... None of my friends or my daughters' friends are as obsessed with health concerns as many of you here. You all seem to be doing the most wacko things and taking extraordinary amounts of supplements just to to make it through the day. I admit - I don't get it! And I think it's because I'm coming from a totally different perspective on everything. It seems to me that everyone in the US is looking for a conspiracy theory and the belief that the government bodies just want to keep the population sick just appears insane to me.

ETA: Just another little story to demonstrate a difference in attitudes - I had just had a hysterectomy and sitting at home on the couch watching TV - watching Oprah. Unbelievably the subject of the programme was "how women should deal with the trauma of having a hysterectomy". Women in the audience were standing up and telling their stories - all crying and carrying on like it was the end of the world. One woman said she didn't even feel like a woman anymore - and she was past child bearing age and had already had children. I thought they were all mad - because I lay there celebrating! Never again would I have to buy a packet of tampons, never again would I have to go through all that monthly hassle - I was free!!!



Keliu,

As you prefaced your comments that you don't live in the USA, I'll cut you a little break here. HOWEVER, you can hardly compare Australia or Europe to the U.S. Also, despite the article(s) by The NY Times or any other mainstream source you post here -- that does not give the true picture of what is *really" going on in our country. Farmers are forced to buy Monsanto GMO seeds if they want subsididy from the government. Many non-subsidized organic farmers are struggling. But worse than that, they cannot maintain the integrity of their crop because perhaps a farm next to them has used the GMO seed, and since seeds polinate...well you know the rest of the story. Then there's the lawsuit where the US Government ruled in favor of Monsanto who ruined farmers businesses. Shall I go on? So you see, it's not just the poor eating habits of Americans that has made us sick. I agree that "most" packaged foods lack proper nutrition and better choices should be made than pizza, Burger King and Mickey D's, but that's just the tip of the iceburg. Most consumers don't even know what the PLU code is for GMO fruits and vegetables. And despite, mainstream media's report that GMOs offer sufficient nutrition and are safe, I beg to differ with them. Btw, as do many alternative doctors who are on the Prop 37 bandwagon to demand all manufacturer's to label their foods.

IMO, anyone living in the U.S. should know the code for GMO produce. Sadly, most don't. So here goes: A conventional banana is #4011, an organic banana with #94011, and genetically modified is #84011. By contrast, in Europe, all GMO packaged and other foods, need to be labelled; it's the law. We are still waiting for a bill to pass to force manufactuers to label packaged goods, while parents (perhaps even your daughter's friends are still feeding their toddlers GMO Cherrios in high chairs). If they are located in the U.S. they are. But, in Europe, they are not because GMOs are pretty much a thing of the past there. It's incredulous that General Mills, the makers of Cherrios would choose to continue to contaminate their cereals this way. So you see, Keliu - it's not as cut and dried as you make it appear. Those of us who *get* it on this forum are not over zealous in our approach to health, we're informed consumerswho want the best for ourselves and our families! I believe ALL AMERICANS deserve better health, yet our mortality rate is 17th in the world... Yeah pretty amazing considering we're supposed to be the greatest nation in the world. I'd say that's a pretty sad dicotomy of what's going on here, and I certainly haven't covered everything. If you want a good source for information on what's *really* going on health-wise in the U.S., this is one source I would suggest you read:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/23/united-states-health-ranking.aspx

ETA: Glad you are feeling well and are happy about your decision to have a hysterectomy. But, that does not give you the right to negate the fact that others do struggle emotionally and physically by having the same procedure done. (ref: the Oprah episode.) You act as though the uterus is not important to womanhood, when in fact, it is. Be well, Aprile
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:18 am      Reply with quote
Keliu, I am in the US but I share many of your same thoughts. The one thing that I don't is regarding doctors (and I work for them!). I would definitely get a 2nd opinion if a doctor told me an operation is required. Very interesting to hear how health care is in other countries. Thanks for posting!
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:58 am      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
Keliu wrote:
aprile wrote:


Keliu,
I know you don't live in the U.S., but the pharmaceutical industry and the FDA would love nothing more than to take away our supplements. In fact, they've launching more and more "pharamceutical" supplements and would love to own the entire piece of the pie. Make no mistake about it, the New York Times and other mainstream media outlets skew the truth all the time. They want to keep us dumbed down, sick and dependent upon doctors with prescription pads in hand. IF our food sources were perfect, and our water was clean and safe and our world wasn't overly poluted then NO we would not need any supplements at all. But, sadly that's not the case. ~ Aprile


No, I don't live in the US - and I believe that is why I often have a completely different viewpoint on health than many of those that do. I'm going to make some very generalised statements - but I think they're pertinent. In Australia, in general, we trust our doctors - we certainly don't see them as there just to make a quick buck out of us. I think this difference is mainly due to the fact that we have a health care system - America has none. If my doctor writes me out a prescription, I simply go to the pharmacy and get it filled - no insurance company intervenes and tells me I can't have it. In addition, many of our medications are subsidised by the government so we get them at a much cheaper price than in the US. So we don't see the pharmaceutical companies as "Enemy No. 1".

Also, with regard to "alternative" practices such as acupuncture or Bowen Therapy or whatever, we can claim for them via our health system - so we don't really see them as being necessarily "alternative".

If my doctor tells me I need an operation, I get it done - and then apply to our health care body to get the necessary refund (although that is slowly getting eaten into, but that's another issue). When I saw my ENT specialist re having a sinus op he told me that he'd been working in the states and that if he told one of his patients that they needed an op, they would go and get a second, third, fourth opinion from other doctors - they were so mistrusting. That (generally) doesn't happen here.

With regard to supplements - the intake of those must be growing here because our pharmacies and supermarket shelves are bulging with them. There's a vitamin for everything you can think of. But there is constantly talk on our chat shows and news that they are unnecessary. Nutritionists and all current research state that if you eat a well-rounded diet, they are useless. In fact, every bottle here carries a "warning" stating that if your diet is adequate vitamin intake is unnecessary.

Also, the belief that our food is no longer good or nutritious for us is nonsense. Read some history and you will discover that we now have an abundant supply of healthy food at our disposal (note I'm referring to first world countries here - much of the third world's population is still under duress). The problem with America's poor diet is simply a matter of choice. I saw the Jamie Oliver programme where he was lecturing in schools. There were children who had never laid eyes on a tomato and who were given pizza for breakfast.

This statement will be like waving a red flag but ..... None of my friends or my daughters' friends are as obsessed with health concerns as many of you here. You all seem to be doing the most wacko things and taking extraordinary amounts of supplements just to to make it through the day. I admit - I don't get it! And I think it's because I'm coming from a totally different perspective on everything. It seems to me that everyone in the US is looking for a conspiracy theory and the belief that the government bodies just want to keep the population sick just appears insane to me.

ETA: Just another little story to demonstrate a difference in attitudes - I had just had a hysterectomy and sitting at home on the couch watching TV - watching Oprah. Unbelievably the subject of the programme was "how women should deal with the trauma of having a hysterectomy". Women in the audience were standing up and telling their stories - all crying and carrying on like it was the end of the world. One woman said she didn't even feel like a woman anymore - and she was past child bearing age and had already had children. I thought they were all mad - because I lay there celebrating! Never again would I have to buy a packet of tampons, never again would I have to go through all that monthly hassle - I was free!!!



Keliu,

As you prefaced your comments that you don't live in the USA, I'll cut you a little break here. HOWEVER, you can hardly compare Australia or Europe to the U.S. Also, despite the article(s) by The NY Times or any other mainstream source you post here -- that does not give the true picture of what is *really" going on in our country. Farmers are forced to buy Monsanto GMO seeds if they want subsididy from the government. Many non-subsidized organic farmers are struggling. But worse than that, they cannot maintain the integrity of their crop because perhaps a farm next to them has used the GMO seed, and since seeds polinate...well you know the rest of the story. Then there's the lawsuit where the US Government ruled in favor of Monsanto who ruined farmers businesses. Shall I go on? So you see, it's not just the poor eating habits of Americans that has made us sick. I agree that "most" packaged foods lack proper nutrition and better choices should be made than pizza, Burger King and Mickey D's, but that's just the tip of the iceburg. Most consumers don't even know what the PLU code is for GMO fruits and vegetables. And despite, mainstream media's report that GMOs offer sufficient nutrition and are safe, I beg to differ with them. Btw, as do many alternative doctors who are on the Prop 37 bandwagon to demand all manufacturer's to label their foods.

IMO, anyone living in the U.S. should know the code for GMO produce. Sadly, most don't. So here goes: A conventional banana is #4011, an organic banana with #94011, and genetically modified is #84011. By contrast, in Europe, all GMO packaged and other foods, need to be labelled; it's the law. We are still waiting for a bill to pass to force manufactuers to label packaged goods, while parents (perhaps even your daughter's friends are still feeding their toddlers GMO Cherrios in high chairs). If they are located in the U.S. they are. But, in Europe, they are not because GMOs are pretty much a thing of the past there. It's incredulous that General Mills, the makers of Cherrios would choose to continue to contaminate their cereals this way. So you see, Keliu - it's not as cut and dried as you make it appear. Those of us who *get* it on this forum are not over zealous in our approach to health, we're informed consumerswho want the best for ourselves and our families! I believe ALL AMERICANS deserve better health, yet our mortality rate is 17th in the world... Yeah pretty amazing considering we're supposed to be the greatest nation in the world. I'd say that's a pretty sad dicotomy of what's going on here, and I certainly haven't covered everything. If you want a good source for information on what's *really* going on health-wise in the U.S., this is one source I would suggest you read:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/23/united-states-health-ranking.aspx

ETA: Glad you are feeling well and are happy about your decision to have a hysterectomy. But, that does not give you the right to negate the fact that others do struggle emotionally and physically by having the same procedure done. (ref: the Oprah episode.) You act as though the uterus is not important to womanhood, when in fact, it is. Be well, Aprile



Bravo April. All Americans should watch the Movie "Food Inc." for an eye-opening realization of the general state of food we find/buy in the supermarket.
I live in an area of strong organic or similar gardening mentality - I do the same myself. We- as a community have numerous farmer's markets, Amish farms and produce grown without pesticides, GMO's etc - We have access to healthy farm raised animals - pigs, cows, chickens and lamb by producers who completely support all practices for optimal health. There is an amazing amount of crap in the American food supply. All related to big industry and their bottom line.
The "true" farmer has more and more difficulty keeping up.
My best friend is making a tee shirt to sell at a 3-day health event ... The design has a large silver screw and below it says MONSANTO. It sounds terrible but it will fly off the shelf. People in the know are fed up.

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:28 am      Reply with quote
Even if this is very much off topic, it's so vitally important to spread this info. GMO crops are dangerous, French researchers found that GMO corn (which Monsanto tries to get into the European market for fodder) causes horrible tumors and disfigurements in rats, and lots of other unwanted side effects keep coming up of other GMO crops. Don't buy it, don't eat it, don't feed it to your children!.
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:52 am      Reply with quote
rileygirl wrote:
Keliu, I am in the US but I share many of your same thoughts. The one thing that I don't is regarding doctors (and I work for them!). I would definitely get a 2nd opinion if a doctor told me an operation is required. Very interesting to hear how health care is in other countries. Thanks for posting!


Tell me about it! 7 years ago, my GP told me that I needed a hernia operation n referred me to his specialist friend who said the same thing. Well, I didnt get an operation cause I had no hernia symptom , no pain, no lump... during that year I received a letter from the specialist office that he is moving n if I wanted the operation done I should get it now, I didnt... I went to my GP next year and he told me that I have no hernia anymore.. so what happened? I dont know but i m just fine even after 7 years, no hernia... by the way I did take a Chinese supplement meant for hernia for several months during that year..... since my GP put the hernia thing in my head, I do get occasional discomfort right at that site on n off, but I hang upside down like a bat on my teeter hang up and that takes care of it.... Also, I do plenty of sit ups... so no hernia here!

And I m no fan of big pharamas, they are scared of the popularity of herbal supplements in USA n r trying there best to shut those companies using their lobbyists... FDA is bothering the supplement companies and they have to spend 100s of 1000s of Ks in legal fees..

I consider pharmaceuticals to be a poison which I ll take if I have no alternative left... I thank God for my health and i do realize that pharma drugs are life savers for many...

In US, if one has a high cholesterol s/he is prescribed those drugs to lower it down instead of some sensible advice to exercise, eat less!!! same with diabetes II... Even children are taking those drugs, that's shame!

Medicine is a big biz in USA and that's how it's run.. how to make profit to the fullest.... saving lives is not it's primary goal, if it was people in dire need of medicines, procedures and therapy will not be refused such!
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:12 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
There is an amazing amount of crap in the American food supply. All related to big industry and their bottom line. The "true" farmer has more and more difficulty keeping up. My best friend is making a tee shirt to sell at a 3-day health event ... The design has a large silver screw and below it says MONSANTO. It sounds terrible but it will fly off the shelf. People in the know are fed up.


Lotusesther wrote:
Even if this is very much off topic, it's so vitally important to spread this info. GMO crops are dangerous, French researchers found that GMO corn (which Monsanto tries to get into the European market for fodder) causes horrible tumors and disfigurements in rats, and lots of other unwanted side effects keep coming up of other GMO crops. Don't buy it, don't eat it, don't feed it to your children!.


I 100% agree with this, and really wish our food was better labeled. There are so many things available here that are banned in other countries, and that is NOT good. And investigations have shown that politics and revenues are definitely behind things like aspartame being approved, despite it being dangerous. Sad but true.

And I would wear that t-shirt proudly, since Monsanto is killing us, the bees, and who knows what else.

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:11 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
sister sweets wrote:
There is an amazing amount of crap in the American food supply. All related to big industry and their bottom line. The "true" farmer has more and more difficulty keeping up. My best friend is making a tee shirt to sell at a 3-day health event ... The design has a large silver screw and below it says MONSANTO. It sounds terrible but it will fly off the shelf. People in the know are fed up.


Lotusesther wrote:
Even if this is very much off topic, it's so vitally important to spread this info. GMO crops are dangerous, French researchers found that GMO corn (which Monsanto tries to get into the European market for fodder) causes horrible tumors and disfigurements in rats, and lots of other unwanted side effects keep coming up of other GMO crops. Don't buy it, don't eat it, don't feed it to your children!.


I 100% agree with this, and really wish our food was better labeled. There are so many things available here that are banned in other countries, and that is NOT good. And investigations have shown that politics and revenues are definitely behind things like aspartame being approved, despite it being dangerous. Sad but true.

And I would wear that t-shirt proudly, since Monsanto is killing us, the bees, and who knows what else.


...totally off subject, but yes, Monsanto is BAD. Poisoning us actually. Case in point, their product, "Roundup," which they claimed was as safe as table salt.

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:36 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
We are still waiting for a bill to pass to force manufactuers to label packaged goods, while parents (perhaps even your daughter's friends are still feeding their toddlers GMO Cherrios in high chairs). If they are located in the U.S. they are. But, in Europe, they are not because GMOs are pretty much a thing of the past there. It's incredulous that General Mills, the makers of Cherrios would choose to continue to contaminate their cereals this way. So you see, Keliu - it's not as cut and dried as you make it appear.


When I talk about good food choices - this is exactly what I'm talking about. No responsible mother should be feeding her children Cherios - whether genetically modified or not. They're not a whole food. I would classify Cherios as junk food.

I understand your rant against GMO food - in Australia we do not have GMO fresh food, but we do have GMO ingredients in some packaged imported food. However, I think the whole thing is inevitable if we are going to be able to feed the rapidly expanding population of the world. Countries like China, who have the largest population on earth but the least amount of arable land are the ones that will probably benefit most. Regardless, most of our plant life has been modified in some way already - nurserymen have been slicing and grafting for years.

But what I don't understand is how you can be against GMO foods and yet consume handfuls of pills everyday that have been manufactured in a lab. There's no difference to medications manufactured in a lab to supplements manufactured in a lab - it's the same principal. And if taken improperly, supplements can be just as problematic as medications. We had a recent case here where a young boy died because his parents had overdosed him with vitamins.

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:44 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
We had a recent case here where a young boy died because his parents had overdosed him with vitamins.


Shock

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:52 pm      Reply with quote
MyrnaLoy wrote:
Keliu wrote:
We had a recent case here where a young boy died because his parents had overdosed him with vitamins.


Shock


http://archive.unu.edu/unupress/food/8F102e/8F102E04.htm

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/effects-of-taking-too-many-vitamins

http://www.nutraingredients.com/Research/High-doses-of-vitamins-are-dangerous-UK-report

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/vitamins_common_misconceptions?open

Quote:
In the United States, overdose exposure to all formulations of "vitamins" was reported by 62,562 individuals in 2004 (nearly 80%(~78%, n=48,989) of these exposures were in children under the age of 6), leading to 53 "major" life-threatening outcomes and 3 deaths

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_poisoning

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:30 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
ETA: Glad you are feeling well and are happy about your decision to have a hysterectomy. But, that does not give you the right to negate the fact that others do struggle emotionally and physically by having the same procedure done. (ref: the Oprah episode.) You act as though the uterus is not important to womanhood, when in fact, it is. Be well, Aprile


It was not my choice to have a hysterectomy - it was a medical necessity. If a uterus is so important to womanhood - where does that leave women after menopause whose uterus and ovaries are shrunken and useless? Are they any less of a woman?

If you are of a certain age and already have children, losing your uterus shouldn't require going into therapy. There are far worse things in life that can happen to you. Having to have a double mastectomy because of breast cancer would be a good example. On the other hand, I agree that young women who want children and have to have a hysterectomy for some reason or other is a different scenario entirely.

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:50 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
aprile wrote:
We are still waiting for a bill to pass to force manufactuers to label packaged goods, while parents (perhaps even your daughter's friends are still feeding their toddlers GMO Cherrios in high chairs). If they are located in the U.S. they are. But, in Europe, they are not because GMOs are pretty much a thing of the past there. It's incredulous that General Mills, the makers of Cherrios would choose to continue to contaminate their cereals this way. So you see, Keliu - it's not as cut and dried as you make it appear.


When I talk about good food choices - this is exactly what I'm talking about. No responsible mother should be feeding her children Cherios - whether genetically modified or not. They're not a whole food. I would classify Cherios as junk food.

I understand your rant against GMO food - in Australia we do not have GMO fresh food, but we do have GMO ingredients in some packaged imported food. However, I think the whole thing is inevitable if we are going to be able to feed the rapidly expanding population of the world. Countries like China, who have the largest population on earth but the least amount of arable land are the ones that will probably benefit most. Regardless, most of our plant life has been modified in some way already - nurserymen have been slicing and grafting for years.

But what I don't understand is how you can be against GMO foods and yet consume handfuls of pills everyday that have been manufactured in a lab. There's no difference to medications manufactured in a lab to supplements manufactured in a lab - it's the same principal. And if taken improperly, supplements can be just as problematic as medications. We had a recent case here where a young boy died because his parents had overdosed him with vitamins.


Wow Keliu ~ How can you even compare the safety of dietary supplements to pharamceutical drugs (just because they're both produced in a lab?) I just don't get that!!! Vitamins, minerals and herbal preparations have an extremely safe track record, compared to pharamceutial drugs. According the most recent research available from the American Association of Poison Control Centers' National Poison Data System, there were NO deaths linked to nutritional supplements in 2010, which is the most recent data. I don't even want to venture a guess as to how many deaths have been caused by the use or misuse of pharmaceutical drugs. But I'd have to guess the number has to be in the 100,000 range. That number might be a little skewed, because as we all know, not all causes of death are reported accurately. Not to mention, that all you have to do is watch TV commercials to see the long list of side effects of pharmaceutical drugs. Do you see those disclaimers listed on supplement labels? I'll take my chances with supplements any day of the week!
Wink Wink

ETA: Of course Cherrios "aren't" the perfect food, although General Mills would lead us to believe it to be so. That's the problem here. It's deception at it's worst...because innocent children are at risk.

Yeah Sis ~ sign me up for one of those ANTI
MONSANTO tee's. Lol. LOVE IT!!!
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:02 pm      Reply with quote
MyrnaLoy wrote:
Keliu wrote:
We had a recent case here where a young boy died because his parents had overdosed him with vitamins.


Shock

well you know, even water( too much ) can lead to death...
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:07 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:


Wow Keliu ~ How can you even compare the safety of dietary supplements to pharamceutical drugs (just because they're both produced in a lab?) I just don't get that!!! Vitamins, minerals and herbal preparations have an extremely safe track record, compared to pharamceutial drugs. According the most recent research available from the American Association of Poison Control Centers' National Poison Data System, there were NO deaths linked to nutritional supplements in 2010, which is the most recent data. I don't even want to venture a guess as to how many deaths have been caused by the use or misuse of pharmaceutical drugs. But I'd have to guess the number has to be in the 100,000 range. That number might be a little skewed, because as we all know, not all causes of death are reported accurately. Not to mention, that all you have to do is watch TV commercials to see the long list of side effects of pharmaceutical drugs. Do you see those disclaimers listed on supplement labels? I'll take my chances with supplements any day of the week!
Wink Wink



Quote:
More than 60,000 instances of vitamin toxicity are reported annually to US poison control centers.[1, 2] Forty-four percent of Americans take vitamins and dietary supplements daily,[3] and as many as 84% of Americans consider vitamins and supplements to be safe,[4] a perception that increases their risk for vitamin toxicity. (See Pathophysiology and Etiology.)
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/819426-overview




aprile wrote:
Do you see those disclaimers listed on supplement labels?


Yes! Some vitamins do interfere with prescription meds - in Australia St. Johns Wort carries a warning. Looks like in the US it doesn't but here they're stating that it should.

Quote:
Dietary supplements containing St. John’s wort may interfere with birth control, antidepressants, blood thinners, and other prescription and over-the-counter drugs. For that reason, the nonprofit Center for Science in the Public Interest has called on the Food and Drug Administration to require a warning label on those products.
http://cspinet.org/new/201111101.html

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:18 pm      Reply with quote
daler wrote:
MyrnaLoy wrote:
Keliu wrote:
We had a recent case here where a young boy died because his parents had overdosed him with vitamins.


Shock

well you know, even water( too much ) can lead to death...


Absolutely!!! That's why it's everything in moderation. No-one needs to take hundreds of dollars worth of vitamins a week.

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:33 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
daler wrote:
MyrnaLoy wrote:
Keliu wrote:
We had a recent case here where a young boy died because his parents had overdosed him with vitamins.


Shock

well you know, even water( too much ) can lead to death...


Absolutely!!! That's why it's everything in moderation. No-one needs to take hundreds of dollars worth of vitamins a week.


those people are being ripped off by people like Perricone, ironically an MD!!!:
http://www.perriconemd.com/product/health+%26+weight+management+supplements.do?sc_cid=pmd_dom_shop_gglshp_na_na_ggl_11_na_na&utm_source=ggl&utm_medium=shop&utm_term=gglshp&utm_content=na&utm_campaign=na&gclid=CIOz9Y6VhrkCFcOh4Aod4zYAFQ

otherwise spending couple of 100 $ a week is not possible..but I know what you mean Keliu...one has to do their due diligence n not take supplements just cause..
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:14 pm      Reply with quote
daler wrote:
Keliu wrote:
daler wrote:
MyrnaLoy wrote:
Keliu wrote:
We had a recent case here where a young boy died because his parents had overdosed him with vitamins.


Shock

well you know, even water( too much ) can lead to death...


Absolutely!!! That's why it's everything in moderation. No-one needs to take hundreds of dollars worth of vitamins a week.


those people are being ripped off by people like Perricone, ironically an MD!!!:
http://www.perriconemd.com/product/health+%26+weight+management+supplements.do?sc_cid=pmd_dom_shop_gglshp_na_na_ggl_11_na_na&utm_source=ggl&utm_medium=shop&utm_term=gglshp&utm_content=na&utm_campaign=na&gclid=CIOz9Y6VhrkCFcOh4Aod4zYAFQ

otherwise spending couple of 100 $ a week is not possible..but I know what you mean Keliu...one has to do their due diligence n not take supplements just cause..


Actually there was someone here who on another thread said they were spending $300 a week on supplements. And when asked to list what they are taking, some people listed over 50 pills a day.

Thirty yars ago you'd be lucky if anyone took one multivitamin a day - but like bottled water, it's all about making money now.

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Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:59 pm      Reply with quote
Here's a well-rounded article from Men's Health:

The Vitamin Trap

Overdosing on vitamins could increase your risk for disease. Here's how to get the nutrients you need without putting your health at risk
BY MARK MOYAD, M.D.

Imagine your doctor walking into the treatment room and scribbling out prescriptions for drugs to treat high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and thyroid disease—without ever testing you for those conditions. As improbable as that sounds, it's happening all the time in the anything-goes world of vitamins and other dietary supplements. Consumers see advertisements touting supplements that offer everything from memory improvement to muscular development to penile enlargement, and they start popping pills on blind faith that these claims are backed by sound science. I recently saw an infomercial plugging an expensive supplement for eye health. The ad cited a clinical trial that showed an improvement in vision. But what the ad didn't say is that the pill only helped individuals who suffered from macular degeneration, and when healthy people took it, the pill increased their risk for prostate and kidney disease.

And the hype can cut both ways. Just as you should be suspicious of claims that dietary supplements will give you 20/20 vision, be skeptical of reports that they'll send you to your grave. A study recently published in the Journal of the American Medical Association made for dramatic headlines thanks to findings that high doses of antioxidants can increase your risk of early death. The study—actually a meta-analysis of 68 previous studies—found that the risk of early death increased by 7 percent with beta-carotene intake, 16 percent with vitamin A intake, and 4 percent with vitamin E intake. But it's important to put these findings into perspective. What the study authors didn't say is that the population studied included people who suffered all sorts of chronic ailments, from Lou Gehrig's disease to cancer, and in some of the studies, people were taking doses as high as 65 times the recommended daily value.

So the study doesn't prove that healthy people are at risk. It does suggest, as do other studies published in the past two years, that there's a threshold past which vitamin consumption can actually increase your risk for cancer and other diseases. What follows is a guide to make sure you don't cross that threshold.


Take Less, Not More
If you remember only one thing about vitamins and antioxidants, make it this: A healthy guy with a good diet should take one low-dose multivitamin, such as Centrum, each day. Nothing more. This is true for the elite athlete and the desk jockey. Low doses of vitamins and minerals have been associated with the best results thus far in the most comprehensive clinical trials in the world for healthy men. The largest of these, the SU.VI.MAX French clinical trial, involved more than 10,000 healthy men and women who took either a supplement or a placebo a day for more than seven years. The men who took a daily supplement reduced their risk of heart disease, cancer, and early death. What was in the magical supplement? Only 100 mcg of selenium, 120 mg of vitamin C, 30 mg of vitamin E, 6 mg of beta-carotene, and 20 mg zinc. In other words, roughly the daily value (DV) of a few key nutrients. That's it. If your multivitamin's doses aren't close to those numbers, throw them out. High doses of antioxidants in pill form can actually fuel disease by not allowing our bodies to build up their own resistance to free radical damage, essentially quashing our internal defenses.
http://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/vitamin-trap

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Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:07 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
aprile wrote:
ETA: Glad you are feeling well and are happy about your decision to have a hysterectomy. But, that does not give you the right to negate the fact that others do struggle emotionally and physically by having the same procedure done. (ref: the Oprah episode.) You act as though the uterus is not important to womanhood, when in fact, it is. Be well, Aprile


If you are of a certain age and already have children, losing your uterus shouldn't require going into therapy. There are far worse things in life that can happen to you. Having to have a double mastectomy because of breast cancer would be a good example. On the other hand, I agree that young women who want children and have to have a hysterectomy for some reason or other is a different scenario entirely.


Reposting your quote:
ETA: Just another little story to demonstrate a difference in attitudes - I had just had a hysterectomy and sitting at home on the couch watching TV - watching Oprah. Unbelievably the subject of the programme was "how women should deal with the trauma of having a hysterectomy". Women in the audience were standing up and telling their stories - all crying and carrying on like it was the end of the world. One woman said she didn't even feel like a woman anymore - and she was past child bearing age and had already had children. I thought they were all mad - because I lay there celebrating! Never again would I have to buy a packet of tampons, never again would I have to go through all that monthly hassle - I was free!!![quote]

Just to clarify Keliu - You never said you HAD to have a hysterectomy for medical reasons. In fact, the way this is written could be miscontrued to lead one to believe otherwise. I too could have opted to have one due to prolapse. I chose not to and instead use sea sponges designed for prolapse, no biggie. I'd rather stay in tact if I can, but that's my choice. Nevertheless, IMO and I'm sure others, it is unkind to poke fun at others pain (be it emotional or physical). Yes the uterus is very important to womanhood, and therefore the reason many women feel an emotional and physical *loss* when they have a hysterectomy. The doctors who perform them rarely talk about hormone loss. Even in women in menopause continue to make hormones when they have a uterus... There's more, but I'll leave it at that. Christine Kent has a very interesting book and website about what actually happens when you have a hysterectomy. Yet doctors continually and routinely recommend them for "non life threatening" reasons.

**Yes St. Johns Wort and other supplements do have disclaimers when they *might* interact or interfere with pharamaceuticals.** Sadly, too many people take too many drugs.
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:16 pm      Reply with quote
The problem is not having a CHOICE. I don't give a damn what other people do or take, I want to be able to CHOOSE what I do or take. I need information to make an informed choice, so I don't like it when companies or government agencies hide basic information about products for monetary or political reasons.
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