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Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:04 pm  |
| AngelaE8654 wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
| Angela - No offense, but Panos is using the term "the body sees the future" as a metaphor... much like they were used in parables in the bible. That is the way he communicates his thoughts. |
The parables in the bible were entire stories that told a "moral" or a lesson. panoslydios saying some inane thing like "the body can see the future" is NOT the same thing at all. |
Yes that it true, but I think you know where I was going with this Angela - you're a smart person. What I was doing was likening his way of communicating with the bible... parables using metaphors... the meaning being "hidden" to many. I believe to most on this forum, the way Panos writes is a out there. But I don't think because of that there's a need to label his thought process as "inane". It's quite possible that you don't completely understand it because you too choose not to and because it's too foreign to you.
However, in the context of this particular conversation, I completely understand where he is coming from. In fact, I think he is quite intuitive in saying "If the body can achieve healing with a liquidarian/juice diet then it only makes sense that his past habits didn't obey Nature." I *think* the reason most people choose to disagree with this thinking is that it makes us responsible for our personal heatlh. Sadly, I think most of us ignore signs of being unwell, myself included. Instead people continue on with their bad habits. For instance many choose to pop a Pepsid AC to continue "enjoying" food that is really unhealthy for them to begin with... This thought process is reinforced by commercials we see on TV every night. Whatever the case may be, the body knows... Yet we humans choose to ignore the signs that are there and have been there all along. If more people paid attention to and cared for their bodies as nature intended, indeed we would be a much healthier race. Sorry if you don't agree, but we all *own* at least part of our fate, myself included. ~ Aprile |
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Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:27 pm |
I think it's perfectly acceptable to call someone's thought process inane if it is completely lacking in sense. The human body is not designed to live on a liquid diet. Nor is it designed to live on air. Without food and water the human body will die - that is the truth.
Aprile, I realise you get frustrated with people who do not accept "alternative" thinking. However, alternative thinking actually does not, or should not, embrace complete nonsense. There's nothing wrong in coming at a problem from a different angle or perspective - but to be useful, that perspective still has to be viable.
For instant, making statements like "stomach acid is toxic" is totally incorrect. Stomach acid is a completely normal, biological part of the human body which performs an important roll in our health.
http://refluxdefense.com/heartburn_GERD_articles/stomach-acid.html |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:04 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
I think it's perfectly acceptable to call someone's thought process inane if it is completely lacking in sense. The human body is not designed to live on a liquid diet. Nor is it designed to live on air. Without food and water the human body will die - that is the truth.
Aprile, I realise you get frustrated with people who do not accept "alternative" thinking. However, alternative thinking actually does not, or should not, embrace complete nonsense. There's nothing wrong in coming at a problem from a different angle or perspective - but to be useful, that perspective still has to be viable.
For instant, making statements like "stomach acid is toxic" is totally incorrect. Stomach acid is a completely normal, biological part of the human body which performs an important roll in our health.
http://refluxdefense.com/heartburn_GERD_articles/stomach-acid.html |
The problem Keliu is the undigested stuff that makes dirty the lymphs.
Imagine doing a orange juice fast and replace huge amounts of mud(from wrong foods) in the lymph with orange juice!!!The body will have an easier time
to make the surrounding enviroment CLEAN.
Once clean you can accept freely the magnetism and regenerate.
Stomach acid is humans body defense.
You either selected the wrong food or didnt chew it well. |
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:47 am |
I understand your views and you are entitled to them but I am sorry but when people start talking rubbish about living on air and light only – and especially with cancer that is dangerous. Having had my hubby go through the process – we were desperate and would have been foolish enough at the time to try anything and I know for one if he had read that, he was desperate enough to do anything he could do and that’s my number 1 fear with Panos comments. He is going to tap into people who are already very vulnerable with that stupid and downright dangerous suggestion.
I do not agree with anything Panos says, because most of them are his viewpoints, and like you he is entitled to them, but when he passes them off as fact and almost being an authority I have a real issue with him, because they are not factually based. If there was substantial proof then I wouldn’t mind but he specifically told someone in a thread a while ago to live on only light and air. You may feel comfortable with that suggestion – but quite frankly I do not.
You choose to believe I am not connecting the dots – well so be it. All I know is that people who have cancer are incredibly vulnerable and need to be given reassurance and helpful advice. You have shown your cards earlier in this thread and being against the medical community and scare mongering and it doesn’t surprise me that you are defending the radical ideas of Panos which are not actually factually based.
With cancer, I am well aware of different schools of thought and am in favour of them, but there is a huge difference between Wigmore of Gestalt approachs to healing the body compared with what Panos is and has said. It doesn’t surprise me that you jump to incorrect assumptions again, and have missed the point that was made all along but then you always do this. The ideas of Wigmore and Gestalt which I am a huge fan of and love the research that is being done in these fields (and these are by no means the only there are several others that I am aware of) are wonderful but this is not what Panos is describing or discussing.
| aprile wrote: |
| Hmmm I don't want to argue with you TM, but please show me where I said you didn't think that sunshine and fresh air were important. Come-on now. Also, just because Panos makes comments that you don't agree with, I don't think you should discount everything he says. In fact, I don't think its a leap of faith that you've misinterpreted what he's saying because you aren't connecting all of the dots. In fact, you choose to ignore many of the dots. You've already shown your cards because you won't even allow people who think differently from you from posting their opinions or beliefs without accusing them of being "dangerous" to the cancer patient. Seriously? It's very apparent that most of Panos thinking is very different from yours and not even in your realm of thinking. That's fine; you don't have to agree with him or me or anyone else on this forum who thinks outside the modern paradigm of medicine that we have today. But, there is some evidence that people who have cancer fare far better on liquid diets and fasting so that the body doesn't have to work so at hard breaking down foods and can concentrate more on the task at hand - healing.... But, given everything you've said, I doubt you would even consider that concept in the realm of possibility. Also, many alternative treatments include things like far infrared light therapy, live food diets (Wigmore), Vitamin D therapy, emotional free technique, etc.. I don't see mentioning those things as dangerous at all. BUT I do see relying solely upon chemo and radiation as dangerous, and hence the reason WHY I have mainly avoided this thread. Because this thread is on a beauty forum, I hardly think any information here is going to be utilized "solely" by the cancer patient. However it might enlighten some to contact physicians who deal with alternative, do no harm methods of treating and healing the disease. That's a good thing because chemo and radiation are toxic and NOT cancer prevention at all, far from it. ~ Aprile |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:50 am |
Angela
I wouldn't worry, many of his posts are like that. I am curious as to how he looks, because if he is living as he says he would, and its producing such great results then where is the real proof (photos etc)? I asked that before and it always gets brushed aside but suspect that he may be a spotty teenager somewhere with too much time on his hands!
| AngelaE8654 wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
| Angela - No offense, but Panos is using the term "the body sees the future" as a metaphor... much like they were used in parables in the bible. That is the way he communicates his thoughts. |
The parables in the bible were entire stories that told a "moral" or a lesson. panoslydios saying some inane thing like "the body can see the future" is NOT the same thing at all. |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:54 am |
That is exactly my thoughts too and what I keep trying to explain to Aprile. Likewise she wants to judge me and she can all she wants because I'm not against out there thinking, but telling someone who has cancer they should live on air and light is downright wrong - yet Aprile refuses to see or acknowledge this and that's fine.
Actually when I look back at Aprile's former postings I can see she has a passion for things way out there (Ageless Secret, Facercise etc) but the constant need to battle anyone who disagrees with a statement of out there thinking she automatically goes to war on is quite frankly boring me now. I'm sure there will be an onslaught from my posts above but I don't care I'm done with her now!
| Keliu wrote: |
I think it's perfectly acceptable to call someone's thought process inane if it is completely lacking in sense. The human body is not designed to live on a liquid diet. Nor is it designed to live on air. Without food and water the human body will die - that is the truth.
Aprile, I realise you get frustrated with people who do not accept "alternative" thinking. However, alternative thinking actually does not, or should not, embrace complete nonsense. There's nothing wrong in coming at a problem from a different angle or perspective - but to be useful, that perspective still has to be viable.
For instant, making statements like "stomach acid is toxic" is totally incorrect. Stomach acid is a completely normal, biological part of the human body which performs an important roll in our health.
http://refluxdefense.com/heartburn_GERD_articles/stomach-acid.html |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:29 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
| That is exactly my thoughts too and what I keep trying to explain to Aprile. Likewise she wants to judge me and she can all she wants because I'm not against out there thinking, but telling someone who has cancer they should live on air and light is downright wrong - yet Aprile refuses to see or acknowledge this and that's fine. |
TV - You are doing an awful lot of judging yourself on this thread throwing around words like *crazy*. You have also taken bits and pieces of what Panos is saying and putting it together to suit your defense. I may not agree with everything Panos has to say but I do have enough intelligence and consideration to sift through and glean something from his posts. I'll admit he does not elaborate or support his posts with long boring medical references, but to me, I'd rather see someone's own words rather than all the cutting and pasting that's been going on here. To me, his posts are thought provoking, and in many cases, I *do* understand his intent. Just because you think *everything* he says is rubbish, does not mean that there isn't any merit there.
Anway, if you think I'm "out there" just because I use Ageless Secret and Facercise so be it. There might be a lot of other EDS members interested to know that you find Ageless Secret and Facercise "out there". Lol. One of our members, Yubs, who is quite the talented and gifted wordsmith, has taken a hiatus from posting here, expressed her opinion about Panos to Keliu, which just about sums up how I feel:
| Quote: |
At any rate, I stand by my right not to dismiss people entirely because I don't like some or even most of what they say, or (just for example) even because I think they may be a little crazy or whatever. Perhaps you are that dismissive of people, but I'm not.
As far as your saying that many of those alternative treatments theories have been proved to be bunkum...to your satisfaction, with the current state of science. Not to mine. Or to a lot of other people here.
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As for the cancer patient feeling vulnerable. You are so right, of course they are!! Given the current protocols, why wouldn't they be? In fact, patients are just where the medical profession wants them... scared out of their wits so that they will succumb to the treatment offered them. Most U.S. patients will spend between $50,000-100,000 on cancer treatments. I think its very important to bring to light that there *are* some very valid alternatives treatments available if one willing look outside of conventional protocols. You said yourself that you were aware of the Wigam method, but obviously your husband wasn't willing to go that route. Why do you think that is? The reason is that many patients are made to feel as though those methods have no validity, when that is not truly the case.
When the profession as a whole has little to offer other than surgery, chemo, and radiation, those patients are left to feel extremely vulnerable and worse yet desperate. Sadly, many patients who receive these protocols, often times experience remission, followed by another battle with cancer. I believe as do many doctors in the alternative arena that since chemo has destroyed the immune system, it is very important to change your life after cancer. Also, unless positive changes are taken, the patient is setup for a return of the disease. But, many patients given this traditional protcol do nothing to change their health status going further. It's almost as if they paid their dues suffering from the horrible treatments, and afterwards they simply revert to their old habits. This is not unusual at all because as patients, most of us do not *own* any blame for our illnesses and the vicious cycle continues. However, this is a thought process that you do NOT subscribe to TM, but that does not mean it isn't correct. ~ Aprile |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:42 am |
Aprile
You say that, but if you look elsewhere you will see that I haven’t taken bits and pieces, yet you can choose to believe what you want, I’m not interested in trying to persuade you because you have your mind made up already. However like I said, previously, I am completely against the idea of someone who has cancer doing what Panos is suggesting and has suggested period. Take it or leave it.
I have not said everything he says is Rubbish, so please don’t try to bend my words to suit you. I said above “I understand your views and you are entitled to them but I am sorry but when people start talking rubbish about living on air and light only – and especially with cancer that is dangerous.” I stand by that. I did not at any point say “everything” he says is rubbish, but have said that there is no science backing behind any of what he has said in this post and others.
Actually its not so much that you using Ageless Secret or Facercise that I think your out there, but the fact that there is no scientific proof behind any of these. Sure if it works for you great – but then I find myself wondering why if Facercise worked so well for you, you had to go to Ageless Secret, and then the Infra red lamp, and then pico. But hey its your life and its nothing to do with me – I just suspect that you will be the next greatest fan of a new discovery that comes up on EDS (again).
Its interesting your thoughts about my husband, the fact you don’t know him or what he tried and did and went through is rather symbolic I think in this conversation topic. As I have said previously many times and will continue to say, we were not even aware my husband had cancer and if it weren’t for the doctors I have no doubt in my mind that the cancer would have developed and spread and so am and will be forever grateful that they did what they did. Yes they did tests and it’s the very tests that you have said spreads cancer, but alas my husband is in remission and has been for a long while now thank God and long may that continue – but if it weren’t for the doctors and their tests we would never have been any of the wiser so again when you suggested that people do not have the tests, I did react because in my hubbys case it saved his life without doubt in my mind.
You have no idea what my husband did, and we did look at everything we had access to, which is again why I stress that statements like cancer patients should live on air and light is downright dangerous. You may not think this is so and that’s your opinion but sadly I think this is downright dangerous and not something I would encourage anyone with any stage of cancer to attempt without speaking with a qualified professional with.
Your dismissal of the medical profession is based on your experience, but when you go out to taint others opinions of it – I’m sorry but you got to expect to upset people who have not had that experience, as my experience is the complete opposite of yours. I’m not discrediting your experience, but know that others who are in the cancer boat will look at comments like yours and it will taint their whole viewpoints which could prevent them getting the necessary help or assistance they are entitled to and need.
TM |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:45 am |
| Likewise I was sorry to see Yubs go, because I do agree that they are very talented with words but I have never seen Yubs validate someone else telling another person to live on light and air, nor do I suspect that Yubs would do so. Sure there are some valid ideas Panos has but they are expressed in a convoluted style and then mixed with grandur ideals that do not suit everyone and living on air and light is one that I do not think anyone with cancer should follow. But hey why don't you prove me wrong Aprile and live on Air and Light for the next few years - I'd be interested to see your results |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:34 am |
This thread is not about me or Yubs(hopefully will come back) but about Cancer prevention .
Cancer prevention=avoiding acid accumulation to the tissues.
Proven by Dr Howard Hay who cured 63.000 patients with orange juice fasting.
I am sorry TM that i am exposing the truth.
Maybe you cant handle it to be that simple.
The body is like a temple(not speaking religious here but as a FACT).
We have to keep the temple clean so that the crystals that the body inside have(proven by quantum physics there are million of them especially in the area of temples) can attract the cosmic rays aka our real regenerating food.
Once clean you regenerate,attain higher levels of consiousness ,thoughts of universal intelligence come through your mind cause as i have repeatdly told you we NEVER ACQUIRE ANYTHING,we can just be open and taste the beauty like a wave. |
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:04 am |
Panos
This thread is about cancer prevention for sure, and having had my husband had cancer and now being in remission I know first hand the dangers associated with this. I do not think you are able to understand what the truth is – your posts are filled with misinterpretations.
I’m glad to see you are no longer telling people with cancer to live on air and light, and I am aware of Dr Hay’s diet and recommendations and its far from what you are portraying here. Yes he did advise orange juice but also enemas and small amounts of food in relation to balancing the ph in the digestion track. It was never about just drinking orange juice and I’m sorry you feel compelled to mislead people with your interpretation of his work which is incredible.
There are no facts that the body is a temple it’s a personal opinion you are expression not fact. The crystals inside the body – you are talking about quantum physics here not biology. Cosmic rays again misleading and misquoting things.
You have not repeatedly told me anything and nor do you need to because you are talking myths and legends not facts which is what people with cancer have the right to hear. Again, if you are living proof of your theories where are your photos to show us how beneficial this is? Strange its been asked of you several times to show and you cannot provide anything. |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:26 am |
| Quote: |
| Aprile You say that, but if you look elsewhere you will see that I haven’t taken bits and pieces, yet you can choose to believe what you want, I’m not interested in trying to persuade you because you have your mind made up already. However like I said, previously, I am completely against the idea of someone who has cancer doing what Panos is suggesting and has suggested period. Take it or leave it. |
I don't see where he's said with utmost clarity that someone with cancer should live *solely* on air and light, rather I believe that is one of the many things he's mentioned. We could debate this at nauseum, but lets face it -- that's not what this is *really* all about. This is about your defensiveness about the approach you and your husband chose in his battle with cancer. And that's fine... you can choose to believe that was the best route to take, but others are also entitled to choose what they believe. That's all -- as simple as that. This is not about Panos endangering cancer patients by suggesting they live merely on air and light. You know that as well as I do. Further, I have not made any assumptions about what your husband went through or what treatment options he debated, YOU shared that information with everyone. IF he did consider or even try alternative methods, WHY didn't you share that information also since you shared that he receive the standard protocol??
| Quote: |
| I have not said everything he says is Rubbish, so please don’t try to bend my words to suit you. I said above “I understand your views and you are entitled to them but I am sorry but when people start talking rubbish about living on air and light only – and especially with cancer that is dangerous.” I stand by that. I did not at any point say “everything” he says is rubbish, but have said that there is no science backing behind any of what he has said in this post and others. |
My question to you would be -- WHY you looking for validation from Panos? As has been previously mentioned, many of us get bored with all cut and paste posts from medical sites like from the AMA,Cancer.org and other sites we don't even trust. Further to that point, IF Panos were to articulate his thoughts differently and even site his sources, I highly doubt you would find any of those sources valid anyway. See my point?
| Quote: |
| Actually its not so much that you using Ageless Secret or Facercise that I think your out there, but the fact that there is no scientific proof behind any of these. Sure if it works for you great – but then I find myself wondering why if Facercise worked so well for you, you had to go to Ageless Secret, and then the Infra red lamp, and then pico. But hey its your life and its nothing to do with me – I just suspect that you will be the next greatest fan of a new discovery that comes up on EDS (again). |
Oh really? So you mean to say that EVERYTHING you put on your skin or in your body has a proven science behind it? WOW that's impressive. Also, are you suggesting that if something works for someone for a while and now at a later date it is not longer providing the same benefit, we should not seek alternative methods? Hmm...interesting way of thinking. FWIW, had it not been for EDS, I probably wouldn't have found ASG, Pico, Tria or any other skincare products or supplements I now incorporate into my daily regimen. Further, just because something is new and different and a better option, I shouldn't try it and even become a fan? We're all adults here and trying something new and proclaiming that it works, doesn't discredit me or anyone else in any way if that's what you're trying to do.
| Quote: |
| Its interesting your thoughts about my husband, the fact you don’t know him or what he tried and did and went through is rather symbolic I think in this conversation topic. As I have said previously many times and will continue to say, we were not even aware my husband had cancer and if it weren’t for the doctors I have no doubt in my mind that the cancer would have developed and spread and so am and will be forever grateful that they did what they did. Yes they did tests and it’s the very tests that you have said spreads cancer, but alas my husband is in remission and has been for a long while now thank God and long may that continue – but if it weren’t for the doctors and their tests we would never have been any of the wiser so again when you suggested that people do not have the tests, I did react because in my hubbys case it saved his life without doubt in my mind. |
These are not *my* personal observations TM - you have shared with all of us the treatment protocol he chose. Not only that, you have become downright indignant when I or others have suggested that diet (organic, gmo-free) would have any affect on cancer avoidance or even treatment at all. Don't you remember that? There's a very good reason to jump to the conclusion that you would not be open to those ideas. If you're not, and I'm incorrect in my assumption, hey I'm all ears. But, as for biopsies spreading cancer, YES indeed there is evidence of it spreading *breast cancer*. That's the point I was communicating. Sorry if you don't want to believe it.
| Quote: |
| You have no idea what my husband did, and we did look at everything we had access to, which is again why I stress that statements like cancer patients should live on air and light is downright dangerous. You may not think this is so and that’s your opinion but sadly I think this is downright dangerous and not something I would encourage anyone with any stage of cancer to attempt without speaking with a qualified professional with. |
AGAIN, No-one is suggesting that a cancer patient or anyone else for that matter live on air and light alone. This is your interpretation of Panos writing.. If you don't don't like the way he writes, WHY don't you ask him for clarification on that?
| Quote: |
| Your dismissal of the medical profession is based on your experience, but when you go out to taint others opinions of it – I’m sorry but you got to expect to upset people who have not had that experience, as my experience is the complete opposite of yours. I’m not discrediting your experience, but know that others who are in the cancer boat will look at comments like yours and it will taint their whole viewpoints which could prevent them getting the necessary help or assistance they are entitled to and need. |
Again TM, this is a "Lounge" topic on a beauty forum. I'd like to think that people dealing with life threatening diseases are looking elsewhere for advice. Sheesh. But, if people reading don't like my view or the view of any other member, they don't have to explore it any further. What I'd like to know is WHY are you so worried about it? Oh, I know the answer... You're worried because it doesn't follow what you feel is the right approach to cancer. To clarify, I and others have the right to express our views and opinions much the same way as you do. And I'm sure that Yubs would agree. ~ Aprile |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:08 pm |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Panos
This thread is about cancer prevention for sure, and having had my husband had cancer and now being in remission I know first hand the dangers associated with this. I do not think you are able to understand what the truth is – your posts are filled with misinterpretations.
I’m glad to see you are no longer telling people with cancer to live on air and light, and I am aware of Dr Hay’s diet and recommendations and its far from what you are portraying here. Yes he did advise orange juice but also enemas and small amounts of food in relation to balancing the ph in the digestion track. It was never about just drinking orange juice and I’m sorry you feel compelled to mislead people with your interpretation of his work which is incredible.
There are no facts that the body is a temple it’s a personal opinion you are expression not fact. The crystals inside the body – you are talking about quantum physics here not biology. Cosmic rays again misleading and misquoting things.
You have not repeatedly told me anything and nor do you need to because you are talking myths and legends not facts which is what people with cancer have the right to hear. Again, if you are living proof of your theories where are your photos to show us how beneficial this is? Strange its been asked of you several times to show and you cannot provide anything. |
If you could read behind his words you could see
otherwise .
Lets take a quote from his book ''health via food''.
• It is possible for any one to live indefinitely and in good health
on nothing but a very small amount of fruits, vegetables and
nuts, as these in natural form all represent every element
required by the body, and there are those who do this.
In the south Pacific Islands are cocoanut palms everywhere, and on one of
these there is a group of people calling themselves Cocoa-vores, who live
wholly on the cocoanut.
These people do not furnish clinical material for any hospital or surgeon,
for they have no disease; those who were suffering from tuberculosis
when they arrived, as most of them were, soon recovering and enjoying
as good health as the rest, yet the entire food for the year is cocoanuts and
what vegetables and fruits can be secured through the warm weather
season.
So you can live and live in good health to what nature provides you.
Never cook your food always raw. |
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:44 pm |
What works for me so far(remember i come from the worst diet in all over the world aka partying till the morning every second day,meat,dairy,sweets,packaged food and vegetables).
When i educated myself i IMMEDIATLEY PITCH OUT the above and not even crave them.
So i semi-fast EVERYDAY from morning till night with fruit juice and at night i eat a salad with tomatoes,olives,olive oil,onion and bread(no gluten,from good wheat).
In between i do exercise(basketball,yoga,light weights,bosu) and the like and its really fun and effortless when you have nothing on stomach 
As time passes by i am sure i would have less need for food and small amounts of food would assimilate much more efficiently.Remember Hay speaks about ''very small amount''. |
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:14 pm |
| panoslydios wrote: |
What works for me so far(remember i come from the worst diet in all over the world aka partying till the morning every second day,meat,dairy,sweets,packaged food and vegetables).
When i educated myself i IMMEDIATLEY PITCH OUT the above and not even crave them.
So i semi-fast EVERYDAY from morning till night with fruit juice and at night i eat a salad with tomatoes,olives,olive oil,onion and bread(no gluten,from good wheat).
In between i do exercise(basketball,yoga,light weights,bosu) and the like and its really fun and effortless when you have nothing on stomach
As time passes by i am sure i would have less need for food and small amounts of food would assimilate much more efficiently.Remember Hay speaks about ''very small amount''. |
Panos - If you wouldn't mind sharing this information ... would you let us know how old you are and in what country you reside? I am very curious to know. Thanks, Aprile |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:09 pm |
| panoslydios wrote: |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Panos
This thread is about cancer prevention for sure, and having had my husband had cancer and now being in remission I know first hand the dangers associated with this. I do not think you are able to understand what the truth is – your posts are filled with misinterpretations.
I’m glad to see you are no longer telling people with cancer to live on air and light, and I am aware of Dr Hay’s diet and recommendations and its far from what you are portraying here. Yes he did advise orange juice but also enemas and small amounts of food in relation to balancing the ph in the digestion track. It was never about just drinking orange juice and I’m sorry you feel compelled to mislead people with your interpretation of his work which is incredible.
There are no facts that the body is a temple it’s a personal opinion you are expression not fact. The crystals inside the body – you are talking about quantum physics here not biology. Cosmic rays again misleading and misquoting things.
You have not repeatedly told me anything and nor do you need to because you are talking myths and legends not facts which is what people with cancer have the right to hear. Again, if you are living proof of your theories where are your photos to show us how beneficial this is? Strange its been asked of you several times to show and you cannot provide anything. |
If you could read behind his words you could see
otherwise .
Lets take a quote from his book ''health via food''.
• It is possible for any one to live indefinitely and in good health
on nothing but a very small amount of fruits, vegetables and
nuts, as these in natural form all represent every element
required by the body, and there are those who do this.
In the south Pacific Islands are cocoanut palms everywhere, and on one of
these there is a group of people calling themselves Cocoa-vores, who live
wholly on the cocoanut.
These people do not furnish clinical material for any hospital or surgeon,
for they have no disease; those who were suffering from tuberculosis
when they arrived, as most of them were, soon recovering and enjoying
as good health as the rest, yet the entire food for the year is cocoanuts and
what vegetables and fruits can be secured through the warm weather
season.
So you can live and live in good health to what nature provides you.
Never cook your food always raw. |
panoslydios Why are your quotes always so vague with no citations? What people are you talking about who live in the Pacific Island wholly on coconuts alone, because I haven't come across any such info anywhere?
If you are referring to the people of the Tolekau and Pukapuka Island, the FYI their diet is not ONLY coconuts. They also eat fish, chickens and pigs along with some fruits and roots. (Source)
So once again we discover that people whose health you admire and whose diet you use to support your theories do not actually eat like you claim to eat or would have us all eat. 
Sometimes it's OK to sit back and take notes, Panos, especially when within a discussion where people are posting from actual experience not stuff they heard or read. You might actually learn something you didn't know and even clear some things you thought you did know but didn't really understand. I'm just saying.... |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:31 pm |
Nonie i told you its from his book ''health via food''.Why dont you read it ,its really good information.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020165.hay.pdf
Aprile i am 22 and live in Greece.You wouldnt imagine how sad and depressed people have become here with the economic change.
I believe now there are some good conditions for spiritual development,denying ego. |
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:15 pm |
Panos, I glanced at a few pages of the book and don't see anything that would make me want to read the whole book as it's not telling me anything profound. Have you actually read it? Because if you had and think it was such a great book, I'm interested to know what you think of his suggested menus in Chapter 24 that include meat, milk, mayo (=eggs and milk) and his being OK with a diet of cooked veggies as long as not overcooked--something I think everyone interested in nutrition is well aware of.
I also don't agree with his idea of eating protein and carbs separately. Sure, carbs are digested in the alkaline environment of the mouth by enzymes in saliva and protein, in the acidic environment of the stomach. So why should I eat them apart when all the food will go down the same path? Also wouldn't that leave one completely stumped on what to do when one encounters a food where carbs and proteins come pre-packaged together as in brown rice or in legumes or in nuts/seeds?
Anyway, sorry everyone for hijacking the thread. I'm leaving now so we can return to the topic of the thread.  |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:51 pm |
| panoslydios wrote: |
Nonie i told you its from his book ''health via food''.Why dont you read it ,its really good information.
http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020165.hay.pdf
Aprile i am 22 and live in Greece.You wouldnt imagine how sad and depressed people have become here with the economic change.
I believe now there are some good conditions for spiritual development,denying ego. |
Thanks Panos - I thought that might be the case that you were from another country other than the U.S. or another predominant English speaking nation. I think that might even add to the communication gap going on here. It makes me feel sad to know how many people have been so adversely affected by the failing economy in Greece. Facing financial challenges in life can be a very humbling experience, trust me, I know. But you are correct and very wise to acknowledge that these are good conditions for spiritual development. In fact, any time we face adversity in life, there is great opportunity for teaching, spiritual growth and understanding, including times of illness. Your young age confirms why there would be no reason for you to provide any photographic evidence to TM to show the improvement in your skin from eating a healthier diet. I have no doubt there is a *difference* in your skin quality since you changed your diet, however, given your tender age, not something us older women would be able to *truly* appreciate unless we witnessed it in person. I would think if TM others are interested in such transformations, they would check out someone like Tonya Zavasta's before and afters. Lol. Best, Aprile |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:52 pm |
I love this quote from his book:
Incidentally, he only lived to the age of 74 - not sure what his cause of death was though. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:11 pm |
Nonie,he just knew human being is too stubborn to give up acquired bad habits so he is being light to others regarding diet.
For example take this wonderfull quote and you clearly see what he thinks about vital food.
| Quote: |
Only life can possibly beget life, all through Nature's great realm, and
food is no exception to this universal rule.
Analysis of the food which adorns every table reveals the fact that more
than ninety per cent of this is dead food. If you plant it in the ground it
will not grow, so it has no life.
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| Quote: |
Life cannot be supported on dead foods, as laboratory experiments amply
prove, and only by means of the small amount of really live food ordinarily
eaten daily is life supported at all |
| Quote: |
Children do well on milk alone for many months, but it is Nature's food for
the infant bovine, not the human, and carries over three times as much
protein in the form of casein as does the human mother's milk, for the reason
that the bovine young grow more than three times as fast as do the young of
the human animal, so require this proportion of building material over that
provided by Nature for the human.
For this reason it is not well to continue the milk feeding too long as the
child will be overfed with protein and in this way acquire a high habit of
protein consumption, which will affect the dietary habit, throughout life, and
we have to be careful not to take too much protein as long as we live, for it is
of all foods the highest in acid-forming potentialit |
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We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:17 am |
| aprile wrote: |
| I don't see where he's said with utmost clarity that someone with cancer should live *solely* on air and light, rather I believe that is one of the many things he's mentioned. We could debate this at nauseum, but lets face it -- that's not what this is *really* all about. This is about your defensiveness about the approach you and your husband chose in his battle with cancer. And that's fine... you can choose to believe that was the best route to take, but others are also entitled to choose what they believe. That's all -- as simple as that. This is not about Panos endangering cancer patients by suggesting they live merely on air and light. You know that as well as I do. Further, I have not made any assumptions about what your husband went through or what treatment options he debated, YOU shared that information with everyone. IF he did consider or even try alternative methods, WHY didn't you share that information also since you shared that he receive the standard protocol?? |
Aprile – he did say that in another thread and mentioned that as a suggestion in this thread (again!). This is not about the approach me and my husband took – its about supplying people with good real information from reputable sources period. I am not against people making choices, but believe they should be entitled to all the facts and not half baked theories. The fact that he suggested in another thread that if people with cancer reverted to living on light and air (and I am paraphrasing here) is precisely the point I am making because that is dangerous despite how you might protest. I have been completely upfront in the forum about the stuff my hubby tried, and gained valuable suggestions from people about various things like supplements for boasting the immune system after his chemo sessions etc – so where is this all coming from?
| aprile wrote: |
| My question to you would be -- WHY you looking for validation from Panos? As has been previously mentioned, many of us get bored with all cut and paste posts from medical sites like from the AMA,Cancer.org and other sites we don't even trust. Further to that point, IF Panos were to articulate his thoughts differently and even site his sources, I highly doubt you would find any of those sources valid anyway. See my point? |
I am looking for proof behind these statements he is making not validation. There is a vast difference. You do not trust those sites – but that doesn’t mean the rest of us share those views. As to me not finding those sources valid – come off it Aprile, that’s the whole point in asking where he is getting these from so we can read for ourselves. See your point – no quite frankly but I’m done with you.
| aprile wrote: |
| Oh really? So you mean to say that EVERYTHING you put on your skin or in your body has a proven science behind it? WOW that's impressive. Also, are you suggesting that if something works for someone for a while and now at a later date it is not longer providing the same benefit, we should not seek alternative methods? Hmm...interesting way of thinking. FWIW, had it not been for EDS, I probably wouldn't have found ASG, Pico, Tria or any other skincare products or supplements I now incorporate into my daily regimen. Further, just because something is new and different and a better option, I shouldn't try it and even become a fan? We're all adults here and trying something new and proclaiming that it works, doesn't discredit me or anyone else in any way if that's what you're trying to do. |
Actually yes that’s precisely what I’m saying. I have never hid the fact that thank goodness I have been going to the same derm for over 30 years and have been on various forms of Retin A for that time and that has more studies behind it than anything else out there – including the stuff you are using period. Also no I am not suggesting if something works for someone for a while and then stops that they should not seek alternative methods – again what kind of messed up conclusions are you jumping to here?
| aprile wrote: |
| These are not *my* personal observations TM - you have shared with all of us the treatment protocol he chose. Not only that, you have become downright indignant when I or others have suggested that diet (organic, gmo-free) would have any affect on cancer avoidance or even treatment at all. Don't you remember that? There's a very good reason to jump to the conclusion that you would not be open to those ideas. If you're not, and I'm incorrect in my assumption, hey I'm all ears. But, as for biopsies spreading cancer, YES indeed there is evidence of it spreading *breast cancer*. That's the point I was communicating. Sorry if you don't want to believe it. |
I have no been downright indignant about diet because I know it has an effect but I did say about the cost of organic foods in comparison to non-organic and that people who are on low incomes shouldn’t be scaremongered into guilt trips by you and your opinions especially when there is no facts that eating organic foods will stop someone getting cancer. The point about biopsies spreading cancer is vastly different from the point I was originally discussing which is that the only way to really detect if someone has it and it has become activated is through biosopies but guess you missed that.
| aprile wrote: |
| AGAIN, No-one is suggesting that a cancer patient or anyone else for that matter live on air and light alone. This is your interpretation of Panos writing.. If you don't don't like the way he writes, WHY don't you ask him for clarification on that? |
Incorrect someone did make that suggestion and it was related to a discussion on cancer and many people jumped on it.
| aprile wrote: |
| Again TM, this is a "Lounge" topic on a beauty forum. I'd like to think that people dealing with life threatening diseases are looking elsewhere for advice. Sheesh. But, if people reading don't like my view or the view of any other member, they don't have to explore it any further. What I'd like to know is WHY are you so worried about it? Oh, I know the answer... You're worried because it doesn't follow what you feel is the right approach to cancer. To clarify, I and others have the right to express our views and opinions much the same way as you do. And I'm sure that Yubs would agree. ~ Aprile |
As you well know when you are in that situation you will look for hope anywhere. Yes they will go to professionals for advice, but they will also be on the look out for any hope or glimmer that will give them information.
Why am I so worried – well frankly Aprile you don’t know the answer. When my hubby was diagnosed I was in a desperate situation and so was he and we looked high and low and spoke with many doctors and were desperate for anything. The idea of losing him just broke my heart and the childrens, and we were at the point where we didn’t care what we needed to do we would have done it. EDS was incredibly helpful to me at that point (whilst I wasn’t on here daily I got many tips and advice from Maggies especially) and facts and options to explore. What scares me isn’t so much that I feel it’s the “right” approach to cancer (as if there is such a thing) but that people who are in the same position I was will read these and the opinions which are stated as facts and run off and do them (I know I would have). |
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Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:20 am |
I am aware of Tonya and that's not the point. Panos has made some extreme suggestions and I am curious as to see what changes he has personally seen. All we have is his word and there is no guarantee that he is doing any of this stuff so why not show us proof? That surely would motivate people to believe his words moreso?
| aprile wrote: |
| Thanks Panos - I thought that might be the case that you were from another country other than the U.S. or another predominant English speaking nation. I think that might even add to the communication gap going on here. It makes me feel sad to know how many people have been so adversely affected by the failing economy in Greece. Facing financial challenges in life can be a very humbling experience, trust me, I know. But you are correct and very wise to acknowledge that these are good conditions for spiritual development. In fact, any time we face adversity in life, there is great opportunity for teaching, spiritual growth and understanding, including times of illness. Your young age confirms why there would be no reason for you to provide any photographic evidence to TM to show the improvement in your skin from eating a healthier diet. I have no doubt there is a *difference* in your skin quality since you changed your diet, however, given your tender age, not something us older women would be able to *truly* appreciate unless we witnessed it in person. I would think if TM others are interested in such transformations, they would check out someone like Tonya Zavasta's before and afters. Lol. Best, Aprile |
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Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:21 am |
Says it all really - you are not reading his words but attributing a meaning that he probably hasn't even intended. Nuff said.
| panoslydios wrote: |
If you could read behind his words you could see
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Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:59 am |
| TM whats your diet like? |
_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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