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light123
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:14 am      Reply with quote
Aprile:In my heart of hearts I do believe we can treat cancer ourselves through proper diet, supplements and with proper guidance.

Aprile,I think I understand what message you are trying to convey, but statements like this one do not do any good. It is too simplifying the complex cancer diseases (yes, cancer is not one disease).

Taking good care of one's health through proper nutrition is minimum every one can do. Nothing in excess is good, not even vitamins.

I am pretty new to this forum and may be sometime somewhere it was already discussed that there are tests available to assess the need for additional supplements and nutrition.

I did investigate this area and found a test like Individual Optimal Nutrition Profile;
The ION (Individual•Optimal•Nutrition) Profile is a combination of analyses that measures levels of organic acids, fatty acids, amino acids, vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants, offering a complete evaluation of functions that impact patients' mental and physical well-being.
Over time, functional nutritional inadequacies can result in a variety of chronic health conditions. The ION Profile can help determine the basis for these conditions.


Another test i am planning to take is this one, Comprehensive Digesting Stool Test:
The Comprehensive Stool Analysis detects the presence of pathogenic microorganisms such as yeast, parasites, and bacteria that contribute to chronic illness and neurological dysfunction. It provides helpful information about prescription and natural products effective against specific strains detected in the sample. The test also evaluates beneficial bacteria levels, intestinal immune function, overall intestinal health, and inflammation markers.
Many chronic disorders come from digestive problems and inadequate nutrient absorption. Proper gastrointestinal function is needed to eliminate toxic substances, pathogenic microbes, and undigested food particles from the body to prevent health problems. Nutrients require a specific internal environment to be properly digested and transported throughout the body.
They are not cheap, but only after the test I will know what supplements I need to add to may nutrition.
I became interested in this recently, when I noticed that some food make my skin itchy, I started suspecting allergies. Through our healthcare system (which is government funded)I was tested for every possible allergy and came out clear. I am not allergic, but I may be oversensitive. Now, oversensitivity/intolerance is not a disease, so any further testing was not covered by the healthcare here. Fine, I found a suitable test and ordered it. I testes about 50 foods and found out that there are antibodies in my blood against a number of food i eat on regular basis, such as wheat,eggs, yeast. My diet now excludes them from my regular meal.

It is important to know food sensitivities and to avoid/minimize their intake, because in a longer term, if i continue "teasing" my immune system one beautiful day I can develop an autoimmune disease such as rheumatoid arthritis or psoriasis or something similar.

I wish i have done the testing earlier, but better late than never.
Light

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:50 am      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:


You have FREE medical care, but what does that really do for you?


It means we get the medical care we need, regardless of our financial situation. It means that no child goes without proper care because their parents are poor. It means that the elderly and infirm are guaranteed nursing care when they are at their most vulnerable.

I have the utmost respect for our doctors. Our health care system is not perfect - it definitely has its problems. But I'm proud to live in a society which cares for its population.

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:43 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
aprile wrote:


You have FREE medical care, but what does that really do for you?


It means we get the medical care we need, regardless of our financial situation. It means that no child goes without proper care because their parents are poor. It means that the elderly and infirm are guaranteed nursing care when they are at their most vulnerable.

I have the utmost respect for our doctors. Our health care system is not perfect - it definitely has its problems. But I'm proud to live in a society which cares for its population.


I agree with Keliu 100%. I am in Canada and it is FREE here as well. My husband and I have both had numerous health challenges in the last few years including me being in the ICU for 8 days. Ours doctors are exhaustive in the tests they order and to the lengths they go to to try and help us. We don't have to worry about bankrupting ourselves for the sake of our health. That is what FREE does for me.

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:54 am      Reply with quote
Doodles and Keliu, are totally correct, I come from a medical family and have also worked in the NHS and outside it. I have NEVER met ANY Doctor who is soo hampered by Protcol that they cannot think out of the box. I and all my family have used our NHS in all stages of illness , wellness and prevention and have all experienced at one time or another the selfless dedication from the NHS.

FREE medical healthcare is all that Keliu has said and I am also extremely proud to live in this society.

Unfortunately it is the attitudes expressed here that have put off my nephews from even considering medicine as a career, they are going for Mathematics and Astrophysics, Medicines loss!!!

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:12 am      Reply with quote
Healthcare is never free. If you are in a country where it is part of the system it is paid for by much higher taxes on the working population or companies. Drs and hospitals and healthcare professionals must get paid and it has to come from somewhere.
If you are a person who requires a lot of healthcare it is a major benefit. If you are a very healthy person you are contributing to the care of others - in that you require much less and don't use the resources.

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:31 am      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
Healthcare is never free. If you are in a country where it is part of the system it is paid for by much higher taxes on the working population or companies. Drs and hospitals and healthcare professionals must get paid and it has to come from somewhere.
If you are a person who requires a lot of healthcare it is a major benefit. If you are a very healthy person you are contributing to the care of others - in that you require much less and don't use the resources.


You have hit the nail on the head!!! Wink
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:02 pm      Reply with quote
Aprile:In my heart of hearts I do believe we can treat cancer ourselves through proper diet, supplements and with proper guidance.

Quote:
Aprile,I think I understand what message you are trying to convey, but statements like this one do not do any good. It is too simplifying the complex cancer diseases (yes, cancer is not one disease).

Taking good care of one's health through proper nutrition is minimum every one can do. Nothing in excess is good, not even vitamins.

I am pretty new to this forum and may be sometime somewhere it was already discussed that there are tests available to assess the need for additional supplements and nutrition.


Hi Light - Although I believe this to be the truth, I am not the professed Pied Piper... people need to research themselves. This is a lively forum discussion, nothing more. I do know that the protocol that I follow DOES work to reverse FBD because it HAS worked for me, and if another forum members asks what I am doing, I am happy to share.

However, those dealing with cancer might be better served to work with a healthcare professional because they probably need guidance and are more than likely already taking pharmaceutical medications that might interfere with the effectiveness of the vitamins, minerals or even be contraindicated. Btw, having said that there are no known cases of people dying in the United States from supplement overdose. Conversely, there are upwards of 125,000 deaths each year (even when taken as prescribed) from pharmaceutical drugs in the United States alone. So why the big worry over supplements is frankly, beyond me.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't consult a professional schooled in the areas of supplements or even have bloodwork done if they feel compelled to do so. However, in the U.S. you would have to seek the counsel of a naturopath or alternative doctor schooled in nutritional supplements, NOT a doctor schooled in traditional allopathic medicine. Traditional allopathic medicine training does not include nutrition, nutritional supplements or other natural healing modalities. I am also not suggesting that someone who has stage 3 or 4 cancer muddle through this themselves. Most people aren't equipped to do this and need the support and care of a trained professional equipped to help them fight their cancer with nutritional supplements and they need to follow a strict protocol created specifcally for them. In fact, it takes a very brave person to forge ahead and change their life on their own... Kudos to Sis's friend. I hope this clarifies my stance. ~ Aprile
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:20 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
Healthcare is never free. If you are in a country where it is part of the system it is paid for by much higher taxes on the working population or companies. Drs and hospitals and healthcare professionals must get paid and it has to come from somewhere.
If you are a person who requires a lot of healthcare it is a major benefit. If you are a very healthy person you are contributing to the care of others - in that you require much less and don't use the resources.


So where does all your insurance money go? If you never need to seek medical care you are also paying for something that you don't use. BUT if you do need care, your insurance company can deny you that care or the medications that your doctor says you need - where's the sense in that?

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:28 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
Traditional allopathic medicine training does not include nutrition, nutritional supplements or other natural healing modalities.


You keep regurgitating this - but it is completely incorrect. Nutritional Science is a field of medicine like any other. You can train for a PhD in Nutritional Science in the same way as you can earn a doctorate in any other field of medicine. However, naturopaths do not have a PhD in Nutritional Science and Dietics.

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:56 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
aprile wrote:
Traditional allopathic medicine training does not include nutrition, nutritional supplements or other natural healing modalities.


You keep regurgitating this - but it is completely incorrect. Nutritional Science is a field of medicine like any other. You can train for a PhD in Nutritional Science in the same way as you can earn a doctorate in any other field of medicine. However, naturopaths do not have a PhD in Nutritional Science and Dietics.


Its not incorrect cause real medicine comes from the tree,sun,plants and food.So everyone in the field should know about nutrition aka our real medicine.
I wish i knew the herbal treatments of Egyptians.I wouldnt be there on this forum if i did!!!!

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:35 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
Btw, having said that there are no known cases of people dying in the United States from supplement overdose. Conversely, there are upwards of 125,000 deaths each year (even when taken as prescribed) from pharmaceutical drugs in the United States alone. So why the big worry over supplements is frankly, beyond me.



This is incorrect.

Quote:
In the United States, overdose exposure to all formulations of "vitamins" was reported by 62,562 individuals in 2004 (nearly 80%(~78%, n=48,989) of these exposures were in children under the age of 6), leading to 53 "major" life-threatening outcomes and 3 deaths(2 from Vitamins - D and E; 1 from polyvitaminic type formula, with iron and no fluoride).[2] This may be compared to the 19,250 people who died of unintentional poisoning of all kinds in the U.S. in the same year (2004).[3] In 2010, 71,000 exposures to various vitamins and multivitamin-mineral formulations were reported to poison control centers, which resulted in 15 major reactions but no deaths.[4]
Before 1998, several deaths per year were associated with pharmaceutical iron-containing supplements, especially brightly colored, sugar-coated, high-potency iron supplements, and most deaths were children.[5] Unit packaging restrictions on supplements with more than 30 mg of iron have since reduced deaths to 0 or 1 per year.[5] These statistics compare with 59 confirmed deaths due to aspirin poisoning in 2003 [6] and 147 deaths known to be associated with acetaminophen-containing products in 2003.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_poisoning


Quote:
More than 60,000 instances of vitamin toxicity are reported annually to US poison control centers.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/819426-overview

Quote:

Vitamin poisoning is not a simple problem. The issue involves lots of misinformation and misunderstanding. The information provided by vitamin manufacturers do not always reveal the truth, certainly not the whole truth. People today are easily fooled to believe that it's worth popping pills that can yield hundreds of times greater vitamin concentration than real food. What the public hasn't been fully aware of is that the human species evolved to beneficially utilize nutrients only as they naturally occur in food and not in any other way.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18619.cfm


Quote:
The figures in New Zealand are unclear, but between 2007 and mid-April 2012, the Food and Drug Administration in America received more than 6300 reports of serious adverse events linked to dietary supplements, including vitamins and herbs. The reports include 115 deaths and more than 2100 hospitalisations.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/8363571/The-vitamins-overdose

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:44 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
sister sweets wrote:
Healthcare is never free. If you are in a country where it is part of the system it is paid for by much higher taxes on the working population or companies. Drs and hospitals and healthcare professionals must get paid and it has to come from somewhere.
If you are a person who requires a lot of healthcare it is a major benefit. If you are a very healthy person you are contributing to the care of others - in that you require much less and don't use the resources.


So where does all your insurance money go? If you never need to seek medical care you are also paying for something that you don't use. BUT if you do need care, your insurance company can deny you that care or the medications that your doctor says you need - where's the sense in that?


Keliu you don't know the US medical system and your response would take too long to answer in detail. I have always had what I've needed from my medical insurance. My medical insurance has primarily been paid by my employer and yes the hospital employees, drs etc get paid. It's just a different system - one very different from the one you are used to.
I have taught a course at the University about Healthcare Delivery Systems throughout the world. Our system in the US is different than yours. We have not paid the high taxes to subsidize the care of people who don't work or don't have insurance etc. That is going to change soon.

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:49 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
aprile wrote:
Traditional allopathic medicine training does not include nutrition, nutritional supplements or other natural healing modalities.


You keep regurgitating this - but it is completely incorrect. Nutritional Science is a field of medicine like any other. You can train for a PhD in Nutritional Science in the same way as you can earn a doctorate in any other field of medicine. However, naturopaths do not have a PhD in Nutritional Science and Dietics.


Keliu - again you are not familiar with medicine in the US. Traditional medical model - aka: Western medical curriculum/physician training in the US does NOT include nutritional training or other natural preventive healing type modalities. Do not confuse this with a naturopath. That is very different. Of course one can get a degree in Nutrition - I have one The difficulty is that many people put their faith in a the Western model trained MD in America "thinking" they have knowledge of nutrition and preventive medical modalities when they do not. This is what Aprile is saying.

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:07 pm      Reply with quote
Please look up the qualification of a PhD in Nutritional Science.

ETA: I've done it for you:
http://depts.washington.edu/nutr/ProspectivePhD.html

Everyone knows that their GPs are not trained in all fields of medical science. You don't expect your GP to be an Oncologist, or a Heart Specialist or a Brain Surgeon or an Orthopeadic Surgeon or a Gynecologist. When you need specialist treatment, you go to a specialist. If you need advice on diet, you go to a Nutritionist. Simple.

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 7:57 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
aprile wrote:
Btw, having said that there are no known cases of people dying in the United States from supplement overdose. Conversely, there are upwards of 125,000 deaths each year (even when taken as prescribed) from pharmaceutical drugs in the United States alone. So why the big worry over supplements is frankly, beyond me.



This is incorrect.

Quote:
In the United States, overdose exposure to all formulations of "vitamins" was reported by 62,562 individuals in 2004 (nearly 80%(~78%, n=48,989) of these exposures were in children under the age of 6), leading to 53 "major" life-threatening outcomes and 3 deaths(2 from Vitamins - D and E; 1 from polyvitaminic type formula, with iron and no fluoride).[2] This may be compared to the 19,250 people who died of unintentional poisoning of all kinds in the U.S. in the same year (2004).[3] In 2010, 71,000 exposures to various vitamins and multivitamin-mineral formulations were reported to poison control centers, which resulted in 15 major reactions but no deaths.[4]
Before 1998, several deaths per year were associated with pharmaceutical iron-containing supplements, especially brightly colored, sugar-coated, high-potency iron supplements, and most deaths were children.[5] Unit packaging restrictions on supplements with more than 30 mg of iron have since reduced deaths to 0 or 1 per year.[5] These statistics compare with 59 confirmed deaths due to aspirin poisoning in 2003 [6] and 147 deaths known to be associated with acetaminophen-containing products in 2003.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_poisoning


Quote:
More than 60,000 instances of vitamin toxicity are reported annually to US poison control centers.
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/819426-overview

Quote:

Vitamin poisoning is not a simple problem. The issue involves lots of misinformation and misunderstanding. The information provided by vitamin manufacturers do not always reveal the truth, certainly not the whole truth. People today are easily fooled to believe that it's worth popping pills that can yield hundreds of times greater vitamin concentration than real food. What the public hasn't been fully aware of is that the human species evolved to beneficially utilize nutrients only as they naturally occur in food and not in any other way.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_18619.cfm


Quote:
The figures in New Zealand are unclear, but between 2007 and mid-April 2012, the Food and Drug Administration in America received more than 6300 reports of serious adverse events linked to dietary supplements, including vitamins and herbs. The reports include 115 deaths and more than 2100 hospitalisations.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/8363571/The-vitamins-overdose


First off Keliu, we've spoken about this before, Wikipedia is NOT a good source. Not even close when regular visitors to the site can change/post information like its the gospel. Wiki is NOT even allowed for high school students to use as valid source.

Organic consumers is talking about the difference between getting your vitamins from foods as being preferable. YES, in a perfect world, I'd agree. BUT, as previously mentioned, we do not live in a perfect world...not even close. Our soils are depleted and even USDA organic is debatable unless the air spaced above the organic farm is FREE of pesticides. So guess what? That is now happening in the U.S. ~ farmers ARE buying airspace! Whole food organic vitamins are preferable to vitamins you can buy at Walgreens. The problem with non-certified organic qwhole food supplements is that they contain fillers, binders, soy, corn, wheat and other common allergens, and worse yet GMOs. I am certain that is what is contributing to toxicity and allergic reactions. Interestingly, at the end of the long article on Organicconsumers, they give a link to http://www.defensenutrition.com/, where you can buy all of your supplements..

The last source you used reads more like a blog where again, various contributors can voice their opinion. Just so that you know, most of the anti-vitamin, supplement talk out there is propaganda put out by the FDA (there's a movement to remove our access to supplements, unless their prescribed.) They want to take away our supplements, so that when we get sick we become even more reliant upon pharmaceuticals.

But the real crux of the matter is that you are compairing toxicity to death...Apples and oranges. We are comparing ZERO deaths attributed to supplement use in the United States compared to 125,000 deaths from pharmaceutical use. Seriously?
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:25 pm      Reply with quote
You may dismiss Wikipedia if you wish. I'm not submitting a thesis at university - this is an internet chatroom and Wikipedia is a perfectly acceptable source for the purpose of discussion - especially when the article contains a bibliography of sites which supports the information contained therein. This is from the site linked to the article:

Quote:
From 1982 through 1992, three children died from iron toxicity in Los Angeles County: one each in 1986, 1988, and 1990. Thus, the five deaths in 7 months reported here represent a substantial increase in iron-related deaths. Measures to prevent toxic ingestions (e.g., child-resistant packages and warning labels) were present in at least four cases described in this report. However, iron supplements may be sold over the counter, and public perception of the potential danger of a vitamin or mineral supplement product may be low. County and state health officials are investigating the morbidity and mortality associated with these supplements; CPSC is also assisting the LADHS in the investigation of this problem.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00019593.htm


You can promote supplements all you want. The bottom line is you are swallowing a mass- produced manufactured pill - this is not proper nutrition.

I'm afraid you have a completely inappropriate bias towards the medical establishment in all its forms. I sincerely hope you and your family never suffers an accident, never contracts a disease, never has third degree burns, never gets appendicitis or has a heart attack or needs a liver transplant. I wish you a long and healthy life - but I will never agree with you.

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Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:20 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
The American Cancer Society is trying to scare people about using supplements ... what a surprise! Keliu and TM - you don't live in the U.S. so you can't really comment about our system here. The corruption that exists in medicine is confounding at best. Quite frankly, its a domino effect between the doctors who although might be doing what medical protcol considers to be *correct* treatment, the insurance companies control *what prescriptions* will be covered, hence telling the medical doctors what to do, and the pharmaceutical reps who bribe the docs with trips and such to use their preferred medications and on and on... Then of course, as Sis mentioned, there are the lobbyists who rush to market pharmaceuticals without the appropriate trials. The FDA is supposed to be here to protect us yet they really don't do a very good job.

You have FREE medical care, but what does that really do for you? It doesn't really put you in a better position than us because those doctors are going to follow strict medical protocols and not *think outside the box*. When the insurance companies are telling the doctors which pharmaceuticals or treatements they can use, by not covering it, that's a crime. Why do you think there are so many people fighting with insurance companies to have certain treatments or drugs covered? Right now in the U.S., medical marijuana is becoming a hot bed discussion for the treatment of cancer. Mediccal marijuana is a viable treatment and one that does no harm to the patient. Further, it spares the patient having to endure the barbaric treatments of chemo and radiation. However, its still not going to be the *preferrred protocol* because it doesn't cost nearly as much as chemo... In fact, not even close. However, there are more doctors who agree that it could save their patients lives, yet they still have to acquiesce to the system.

Seriously, this is not a witch hunt, this is just telling it like it is, and more importantly, a lively discussion like this should serve as a wake up call to those who are uninformed about how the system *really* works. Yes indeed, the cancer machine. Knowledge is power.


You do realise that corruption exists everywhere, not just in medicine? Yes, this is how the world works, not just "the system". There are also reps who bribe naturopaths/alternative practitioners to use whatever they are selling. There are also lobbyists who rush to market supplements without the appropriate trials. I'm sure you agree personal testimonies of "Yes, I know it works for me" do not constitute an appropriate trial, be it nutritional supplements or pharmaceutical drugs. Medical marijuana and whatever other viable treatment with their respective stakeholders will surely need to go through appropriate trials before you can say it really "does no harm to the patient".
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:59 am      Reply with quote
It’s really quite interesting reading this general though highly personal controversial discussion that evolved - (ever since this thread’s been moved over to the Lounge forum).

Somewhere here I saw reference(s) to the mercola website.

FWIW - Only posting that I find it very ironic and revealing, yet, also, appropriate that the Mercola.com website includes this section (see below) in their website’s Terms of Use Policy.


HEALTH-RELATED INFORMATION:

The information contained in the (Mercola.com) Website is provided for informational purposes only and is not meant to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other health care professional.

You should not use the information available on or through the Mercola.com Website (including, but not limited to, information that may be provided by healthcare and/or nutrition professionals employed by, or contracting with, Mercola.com) for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or prescribing any medication.

Information and statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration unless specifically so stated.

You should carefully read all product packaging prior to use.
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:06 am      Reply with quote
Further to my post above, here is some more information on iron supplements - especially important for those of you who are into mineralising the body.'

http://www.livestrong.com/article/399405-can-a-person-overdose-on-iron-supplements/

The Colorado State University Extension reports that accidental iron overdose is a leading cause of poisoning death in children under the age of 6 in the United States.

Regarding chelated copper:

Chelated copper is a special type of mineral supplement that may be better absorbed and easier on the stomach, although scientific evidence is lacking. Regardless, there is a danger of toxicity and serious health consequences if you take too much chelated copper.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/562149-what-are-the-dangers-of-chelated-copper-supplements/#ixzz2fQiRTBpz

And here is an Australian article on the subject of vitamin overdosing:

Quote:
But according to the American Association of Poison Control Center (AAPCC), vitamins are not the universal health aids that they profess to be. In the AAPCC 2005 Toxic Exposure Surveillance System Annual Report, the last to be made publicly available, there were 62,446 instances of vitamin overdose in the United States, accounting for 2.6 per cent of all poisoning cases. In children, vitamins and other dietary supplements accounted for 5 per cent of poisoning cases – the seventh highest substances involved in paediatric poisoning.

Within Australia, only the Victorian Poisons Information Centre (VPIC) keeps detailed figures on vitamin poisoning. This data seems to be consistent with that of the US. According to the VPIC 2006 annual report, there were 429 vitamin-related overdoses in the state, accounting for about 2 per cent of poisoning in total.
http://www.reportageonline.com/2007/11/the-magic-bullet/


The above is a very informative article and worth reading.

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Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:24 am      Reply with quote
panoslydios wrote:
Keliu wrote:
sister sweets wrote:

DO you understand this Or does it need to be explained more clearly? I know you have difficulty sometimes with things.


This is a patronising, condescending and insulting remark.

Please look up the qualification of a PhD in Nutritional Science.

ETA: I've done it for you:
http://depts.washington.edu/nutr/ProspectivePhD.html

Everyone knows that their GPs are not trained in all fields of medical science. You don't expect your GP to be an Oncologist, or a Heart Specialist or a Brain Surgeon or an Orthopeadic Surgeon or a Gynecologist. When you need specialist treatment, you go to a specialist. If you need advice on diet, you go to a Nutritionist. Simple.


Dont worry sister sweets seems to be a positive person,but frying her face with electricty and silver oxides with pico toner can even make a positive person insulting Wink .
Its just a part of detoxing process Wink
Otherwise it accumulates.



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Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:30 am      Reply with quote
Kath91 wrote:
It’s really quite interesting reading this general though highly personal controversial discussion that evolved - (ever since this thread’s been moved over to the Lounge forum).

Somewhere here I saw reference(s) to the mercola website.

FWIW - Only posting that I find it very ironic and revealing, yet, also, appropriate that the Mercola.com website includes this section (see below) in their website’s Terms of Use Policy.


HEALTH-RELATED INFORMATION:

The information contained in the (Mercola.com) Website is provided for informational purposes only and is not meant to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other health care professional.

You should not use the information available on or through the Mercola.com Website (including, but not limited to, information that may be provided by healthcare and/or nutrition professionals employed by, or contracting with, Mercola.com) for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or prescribing any medication.

Information and statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration unless specifically so stated.

You should carefully read all product packaging prior to use.



Kath - Every healthcare site that offers medical advice needs to post a disclaimer. For that matter, many vitamins, minerals and other supplements contain certain disclaimers or warnings about interactions on the labels. AND YES all pharmaceutical drugs come with a small booklet of potential side effects, some of which include the possibility of death. Best, Aprile
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:10 am      Reply with quote
circus wrote:
aprile wrote:
The American Cancer Society is trying to scare people about using supplements ... what a surprise! Keliu and TM - you don't live in the U.S. so you can't really comment about our system here. The corruption that exists in medicine is confounding at best. Quite frankly, its a domino effect between the doctors who although might be doing what medical protcol considers to be *correct* treatment, the insurance companies control *what prescriptions* will be covered, hence telling the medical doctors what to do, and the pharmaceutical reps who bribe the docs with trips and such to use their preferred medications and on and on... Then of course, as Sis mentioned, there are the lobbyists who rush to market pharmaceuticals without the appropriate trials. The FDA is supposed to be here to protect us yet they really don't do a very good job.

You have FREE medical care, but what does that really do for you? It doesn't really put you in a better position than us because those doctors are going to follow strict medical protocols and not *think outside the box*. When the insurance companies are telling the doctors which pharmaceuticals or treatements they can use, by not covering it, that's a crime. Why do you think there are so many people fighting with insurance companies to have certain treatments or drugs covered? Right now in the U.S., medical marijuana is becoming a hot bed discussion for the treatment of cancer. Mediccal marijuana is a viable treatment and one that does no harm to the patient. Further, it spares the patient having to endure the barbaric treatments of chemo and radiation. However, its still not going to be the *preferrred protocol* because it doesn't cost nearly as much as chemo... In fact, not even close. However, there are more doctors who agree that it could save their patients lives, yet they still have to acquiesce to the system.

Seriously, this is not a witch hunt, this is just telling it like it is, and more importantly, a lively discussion like this should serve as a wake up call to those who are uninformed about how the system *really* works. Yes indeed, the cancer machine. Knowledge is power.


You do realise that corruption exists everywhere, not just in medicine? Yes, this is how the world works, not just "the system". There are also reps who bribe naturopaths/alternative practitioners to use whatever they are selling. There are also lobbyists who rush to market supplements without the appropriate trials. I'm sure you agree personal testimonies of "Yes, I know it works for me" do not constitute an appropriate trial, be it nutritional supplements or pharmaceutical drugs. Medical marijuana and whatever other viable treatment with their respective stakeholders will surely need to go through appropriate trials before you can say it really "does no harm to the patient".


Circus, Of course I realize that... In the United States it's called *free enterprise*. However, as previously stated the FDA is working hard to take away our supplements, but thankfully, they would have to pass a bill through congress to get this done.
But they are still looking for a loophole.

So please clarify - are you saying that a personal testimony is not relevant? I suffered for 30 years with fibrocystic breast disease and not once did any doctor say to me "try iodine, or try magnesium or whatever." I found this information on my own via web search. Since this forum is intended to share information, and I am not presenting a medical paper, I posted it here. AGAIN, I didn't devise this plan on my own. I previously gave a number of sources for information about how iodine can eliminate FBD. Dr. Wright, Dr. Brownstein, Dr. Sircus, Dr. Derry, etc. However, Dr. Jonathan Wright, who created the Tri-Est formula and runs the Tahoma Clinic has some great information about iodine on his site. For anyone concerned about thyroid dysfunction occuring from taking too much iodine for too long a period of time, it would be helpful to work with a physician schooled in supplements to monitor thyroid levels. But, as Dr. Wright points out, this can be reversed by discontinuing iodine. All I am saying is that people need to become educated on their options. There's a very good reason why so many people are iodine deficient which I won't go into right now.... Best, Aprile

http://tahomaclinicblog.com/iodide/

http://www.tahomaclinic.com/thermography-seattle/
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:25 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
You may dismiss Wikipedia if you wish. I'm not submitting a thesis at university - this is an internet chatroom and Wikipedia is a perfectly acceptable source for the purpose of discussion - especially when the article contains a bibliography of sites which supports the information contained therein. This is from the site linked to the article:

Quote:
From 1982 through 1992, three children died from iron toxicity in Los Angeles County: one each in 1986, 1988, and 1990. Thus, the five deaths in 7 months reported here represent a substantial increase in iron-related deaths. Measures to prevent toxic ingestions (e.g., child-resistant packages and warning labels) were present in at least four cases described in this report. However, iron supplements may be sold over the counter, and public perception of the potential danger of a vitamin or mineral supplement product may be low. County and state health officials are investigating the morbidity and mortality associated with these supplements; CPSC is also assisting the LADHS in the investigation of this problem.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00019593.htm


You can promote supplements all you want. The bottom line is you are swallowing a mass- produced manufactured pill - this is not proper nutrition.

I'm afraid you have a completely inappropriate bias towards the medical establishment in all its forms. I sincerely hope you and your family never suffers an accident, never contracts a disease, never has third degree burns, never gets appendicitis or has a heart attack or needs a liver transplant. I wish you a long and healthy life - but I will never agree with you.



Correct Keliu - we will NEVER agree. However, you did tell me "I'm wrong", so I think it is only fair to point out that your sourcing is suspect as best. Also, to say my opinion is "INAPPROPRIATE" is downright wrong. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are. Although I don't have great trust in the *system* that exists in the U.S., I do realize there are some very fine doctors practicing medicine here. FWIW, I use my health insurance precisely for what you mentioned... emergency situations. What I don't do is use unnecessary invasive medical tests as a security blanket. I am in control of my own health and try to make the right choices for myself and my family. Personally I think most people take their health for granted and continue with their bad habits until they end up becoming a victim of the system. Sorry but you really can't truly understand how the big machine works unless you live here. Just as we Americans can't make a sweeping statement about the state of healthcare in Australia or how it works. THAT is the point Sis is trying to make to you. YET, you continue to argue American politics including medical professions, etc. In this instance, we DO know more than you. ~ Aprile
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:47 am      Reply with quote
I think a lump in the breast could definitely be considered a medical emergency and it is inappropriate to advise people not to get it checked out by a specialist. Having a biopsy is not a "security blanket" - it is the only way to find out if you have cancer. No-one is in control of their own health - there is absolutely no guarantee that you won't catch an infectious disease, get Parkinson's disease or MS or cancer or have a brain anurism. If you believe you're bullet proof just because you pop vitamin pills, you're deluding yourself.

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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:07 am      Reply with quote
Well in my case, it helped saved my hubby and for that I'm grateful. If it wasn't for them checking and doing a biosopy - we would never have known he had cancer and it would never have been treated. I'm sorry but yes in UK we do have free medical care and I am grateful for it. It has helped me and my family many times.

We're in the UK and so using whats in the US as a guide to whats taking place in the UK is an unfair comparison and quite frankly like you have already said, sometimes if we are in the country that is doing this - we know best!
aprile wrote:
You have FREE medical care, but what does that really do for you? It doesn't really put you in a better position than us because those doctors are going to follow strict medical protocols and not *think outside the box*. When the insurance companies are telling the doctors which pharmaceuticals or treatements they can use, by not covering it, that's a crime. Why do you think there are so many people fighting with insurance companies to have certain treatments or drugs covered? Right now in the U.S., medical marijuana is becoming a hot bed discussion for the treatment of cancer. Mediccal marijuana is a viable treatment and one that does no harm to the patient. Further, it spares the patient having to endure the barbaric treatments of chemo and radiation. However, its still not going to be the *preferrred protocol* because it doesn't cost nearly as much as chemo... In fact, not even close. However, there are more doctors who agree that it could save their patients lives, yet they still have to acquiesce to the system.

Seriously, this is not a witch hunt, this is just telling it like it is, and more importantly, a lively discussion like this should serve as a wake up call to those who are uninformed about how the system *really* works. Yes indeed, the cancer machine. Knowledge is power.
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