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aprile
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Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:21 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Aprile - just to clarify your misconceptions about GMO in Australia. We DO grow GMO crops, namely cotton (grown since 1996) and canola (grown since 2008) - further experimentation is being carried out with other crops. Modified ingredients are also used in domestically manufactured processed foods and GMO fresh produce is imported and sold here.

http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Food-and-Agriculture/Gene-technology/Gene-technology-in-Australia.aspx

What I am pointing out is that there would not be one type of vegetable or fruit available today that has not already been modified in some way. Whether we (notice I use the term WE) like it or not, I think this will continue and technology will go marching on.

APRILE - I AM SICK AND TIRED OF YOU USING ROLLING EYES ICONS AND WORDS LIKE "SHEESH" OR "WOW" WHICH ARE INTENDED TO INDICATE THAT I AM AN IDIOT. I would like you to stop. I have an opinion - I express what I believe to be well balanced opinions. If you disagree, that's fine - but please don't ridicule.


I never made any disparaging remarks about you Keliu. I would not stoop that low. HOWEVER, I am frustrated by your constant rebuttals in the name of "evolution or progress". I beg to differ with you, hence the rolling eyes as a sign of my frustration. You and I didn't grow up on GMOs... Cancer is high for the over 50 age group, but it's now being seen in more and more young people and children as well. Why do you think that is? If parents unwillingly fed their babies GMO formula or GMO babyfood then that's not only dishonest on the part of the manufacturers.... thats a crime. You can't use people as guinea pigs and call it "evolution or progress". Also, I am basically commenting about the U.S., our policies and trying to educate others about things that I didn't previously know myself. You learn something new every day and knowledge is power. I have heard that Europe does not need NON GMO labelling as they don't use GMO seed. I guess Australia isn't Europe, it's Asia so that makes sense. So you have GMOs in Australia now? Well, good for you I guess because you seem to think it's all well and good in the name of "progress". But, God forbid one of your family members gets sick, it just might make you think differently. ~ Aprile
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Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:26 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
This is also pertinent to our discussion on GMOs in Australia.

Quote:
Gene technology is a tool that offers potentially enormous benefits, but since it is still a relatively new technology, it is important that use of genetically modified organisms (GMOs) and products from GMOs are carefully regulated.

In Australia, the Gene Technology Regulator has to be satisfied that a GMO or GM product is safe and can be well managed to protect human health and the environment.
Human health
Gene technology is helping scientists to develop more effective therapies for diseases like cancer, diabetes, hepatitis C and influenza. For instance, micro-organisms such as yeast and bacteria have been modified to produce vaccines for hepatitis B and insulin for diabetics.
Researchers in Australia have also developed a malaria vaccine by genetically modifying the malaria parasite Plasmodium falciparum, which is now undergoing trials.

Scientists also use gene technology to locate and study the genes that cause genetic diseases, or that make some people prone to heart disease, Alzheimerís disease, motor neurone disease, some cancers, rheumatoid arthritis and lupus.

Our food
In Australia, ingredients from GMOs are typically only found in highly processed foods and cannot be purchased as fresh food. Australian laws require food containing 1 per cent or more GM ingredients to be labelled.
Products from GM soybean, canola, corn, potato, sugar beet and cotton crops have been approved for use in food in Australia. These crops have been modified to be insect resistant, herbicide tolerant or both.

Spread of food on table.
Some soybeans have also been modified for increased oleic acid, a healthy monounsaturated fat. While GM canola and cotton are grown in Australia, other GM based food products are imported.

All GM food products available in Australia have been assessed for safety by Food Standards Australia New Zealand (FSANZ). FSANZ will not approve a GM food product if it is considered unsafe.

Our environment
GM crops that have been modified for insect resistance or herbicide tolerance allow farmers to use less herbicide and pesticide on their farms.

For example, insect resistant Bollgard II cotton has reduced pesticide use by up to 80 per cent. This in turn means fewer chemicals in the environment, and less harm to friendly insects.

The reduced chemical use means more sustainable management practices can be adopted, improving the health and productivity of the land. Reduced tillage associated with GM crops also leads to reduced greenhouse gas emissions through lower fuel use and increased soil carbon storage.

http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Food-and-Agriculture/Gene-technology/Benefits-of-gene-technology.aspx


As far as I'm aware, there has not been a huge backlash to the whole GMO debate here. People have been more concerned with livestock being fed hormone-free feed.



That's because they aren't knowledgeable about GMOs yet... The hormone/anti-biotic free meat debate was our first cross to bear... we're onto bigger and better fish to fry now.
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Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:36 am      Reply with quote
Thank you Deb and Marie-Andree, it is indeed a great talk.
To be honest I knew about the free use of GMO food in USA, but because it is banned here in Europe i never actually tried to understand the issue around it. This thread made me dig more into it, and it has been an eye-opener for me.
I wanted to pick some text from this article, but actually all of it so good, so here is the link for those who are interested to see all the studies and observations made on animals and humans consuming or working with GMO crops/food.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/potential-health-hazards-of-genetically-engineered-foods/8148

Needless to say, there is a big difference between genetically modified and selective breeding. Both technics are being exploited extensively, but the latter one still remains more close to nature.

Back to the topic, I mentioned earlier that i wanted to test against what proteins my body has developed sensitivities to. It is a self-testing of antibodies in the blood. Surprisingly the strongest hypersensitivity is against eggs, corn and wheat, all of which do have GMO versions somewhere in the world (eggs probably mainly through chicks being fed with GMO food).

The food oversensitivity or intolerance is not itself a huge health problem, but it can lead to some very unpleasant diseases like RA.
I can warmly recommend this testing for anyone who cares about her health.
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Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:19 am      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
Keliu wrote:
Aprile - just to clarify your misconceptions about GMO in Australia. We DO grow GMO crops, namely cotton (grown since 1996) and canola (grown since 2008) - further experimentation is being carried out with other crops. Modified ingredients are also used in domestically manufactured processed foods and GMO fresh produce is imported and sold here.

http://www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Food-and-Agriculture/Gene-technology/Gene-technology-in-Australia.aspx

What I am pointing out is that there would not be one type of vegetable or fruit available today that has not already been modified in some way. Whether we (notice I use the term WE) like it or not, I think this will continue and technology will go marching on.

APRILE - I AM SICK AND TIRED OF YOU USING ROLLING EYES ICONS AND WORDS LIKE "SHEESH" OR "WOW" WHICH ARE INTENDED TO INDICATE THAT I AM AN IDIOT. I would like you to stop. I have an opinion - I express what I believe to be well balanced opinions. If you disagree, that's fine - but please don't ridicule.


I never made any disparaging remarks about you Keliu. I would not stoop that low. HOWEVER, I am frustrated by your constant rebuttals in the name of "evolution or progress". I beg to differ with you, hence the rolling eyes as a sign of my frustration. You and I didn't grow up on GMOs... Cancer is high for the over 50 age group, but it's now being seen in more and more young people and children as well. Why do you think that is? If parents unwillingly fed their babies GMO formula or GMO babyfood then that's not only dishonest on the part of the manufacturers.... thats a crime. You can't use people as guinea pigs and call it "evolution or progress". Also, I am basically commenting about the U.S., our policies and trying to educate others about things that I didn't previously know myself. You learn something new every day and knowledge is power. I have heard that Europe does not need NON GMO labelling as they don't use GMO seed. I guess Australia isn't Europe, it's Asia so that makes sense. So you have GMOs in Australia now? Well, good for you I guess because you seem to think it's all well and good in the name of "progress". But, God forbid one of your family members gets sick, it just might make you think differently. ~ Aprile


Aprile - Some people choose to not believe what is in front of their very eyes. I am grateful for your thoughtful and concerned (and proactive) postings. I read every one and because of you I do iodine therapy and BIHT and other intesive mineralization that I didnt do previously and I have a degree in nutrition. One should always continue to learn and adapt in order stay healthy and look your best.
BTW: my chinese doctor/acupuncturist is strongly into mineralization also. And he has numerous post-graduate degrees.

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Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:33 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
and other intesive mineralization


Speaking of mineralization... any thoughts on these products?

Concentrace Trace Minerals, Electrolyte Concentrate

Would something like this be effective in terms of helping to remineralize? Debate aside, I do think there's value in making sure we're getting optimum nutrition, and since a lot of us no longer have access to a water supply that's naturally high in minerals, I thought these might be helpful. Like most supplements, I don't expect miracles and I hope they're making a positive difference, but these have an additional benefit: I actually love the way they make my (filtered) water taste! I add about 5 drops of Concentrace and 5 drops of the Electrolyte formula to 12oz water bottles. I'm probably not getting their recommended dosages, but I drink a fair amount of water throughout the day so it may not be far off.

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Keliu
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Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:06 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:



That's because they aren't knowledgeable about GMOs yet...


The CSIRO, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, is Australia's national science agency and one of the largest and most diverse research agencies in the world. To suggest that they know nothing about GMOs is akin to saying that NASA knows nothing about rockets.

As for your comments about me being pro GMOs - I've already stated that that is not the case. However, unlike you, my beliefs aren't black and white. I have a more balanced viewpoint. Do you remember when Christopher Reeve was campaigning for stemcell research in the US and was fought at every step of the way. Now, even you are using stemcell technology products. You can't stop progress - but I'm not saying that progress should be made without safety. But people are often frightened when new technologies come along.

It is this phenomenon that Dick Taverne talks about in his book "The March of Unreason:
Science, Democracy, and the New Fundamentalism"

Quote:
In The March of Unreason, Taverne warns that 'many people have become increasingly sceptical about the benefits of new technology and no longer trust experts. Possible risks from new developments loom larger in the public mind than possible benefits and we hear constantly about the need to apply "the Precautionary Principle", as if it is some scientific law that needs no further explanation.'
http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CAB13.htm


BTW, I don't believe any baby should be fed processed baby food - they should be fed whole foods.

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Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:24 pm      Reply with quote
Aprile - you are also misled about the situation with GMOs in Europe. They are grown in Spain, Czech Republic and Portugal.

Quote:
Spain accounts for 42 percent of all field trials of genetically modified crops in the EU, according to figures from the European Commission Joint Research Centre.
http://www.ipsnews.net/2013/03/spain-leads-the-eu-in-gm-crops-but-no-one-knows-where-they-are/


You can use this website to see what GMO crops/animals are grown in Europe:

Quote:
Search the register for products containing GMOs e.g. if you type 'cotton', you will get a list of all products containing cotton in their description.
This search covers the EU GMOs register (Regulation EC 1829/2003) and the products subject to EC decisions on withdrawal from the market.
http://ec.europa.eu/food/dyna/gm_register/index_en.cfm

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Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:56 pm      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
sister sweets wrote:
and other intesive mineralization


Speaking of mineralization... any thoughts on these products?

Concentrace Trace Minerals, Electrolyte Concentrate

Would something like this be effective in terms of helping to remineralize? Debate aside, I do think there's value in making sure we're getting optimum nutrition, and since a lot of us no longer have access to a water supply that's naturally high in minerals, I thought these might be helpful. Like most supplements, I don't expect miracles and I hope they're making a positive difference, but these have an additional benefit: I actually love the way they make my (filtered) water taste! I add about 5 drops of Concentrace and 5 drops of the Electrolyte formula to 12oz water bottles. I'm probably not getting their recommended dosages, but I drink a fair amount of water throughout the day so it may not be far off.


I like the looks of the electrolyte formula as a baseline. I think much of the decision to mineralize and to what degree is based on symptoms and ideally testing. I do a spray magnesium and also take Calm magnesium drink - it really helps relxation and good sleep. I will probably buy this formula you posted Lowbrow and give it a try.

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Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:53 pm      Reply with quote
Here is a data base for genetically modified food and feed in the EU. There's allot of information here.

http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/gmo/db/

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Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:50 am      Reply with quote
I am in the UK. If you seriously believe you can get any nutritional advice worth looking up for, from a traditionally trained doctor here..well... Crying or Very sad .....what can I say... only the usual speechless resignation implied by good luck with that....

Oh wait...yeah..I think they've seen that food pyramid illustration... Smile
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:59 am      Reply with quote
Iím also a UKer and am London based (zone 3) and have to say that for what its worth my experience is complete opposite. Sure the docs in London are more pushed but they do give the advice if you ask them for. I know a lot of them say they are frustrated because people come in looking for the magic pill, but my doctor was great particularly when hubby was going through his stuff. Iíve never known them to refer to the food pyramid illustration Ė thatís something the dieticians usually do!

I do know the woman who taught at several medical Universitys in London, Scotland and Ireland, so know they do get trained in it for a year or so. Granted thatís not a long time considering their degrees are often 4-5 years but they do get training in it for sure.

catski wrote:
I am in the UK. If you seriously believe you can get any nutritional advice worth looking up for, from a traditionally trained doctor here..well... Crying or Very sad .....what can I say... only the usual speechless resignation implied by good luck with that....

Oh wait...yeah..I think they've seen that food pyramid illustration... Smile
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:07 am      Reply with quote
Theresa, my best friend is a GP. She does make sure her kids eat oranges.

My son has been told by gp's that diet has no affect on acne. And cigarette smoking fry up eating family members with ulcers are given zantac.

They just dont have the training, the interest, the time or reason, to actually know what they would need to know to be helpful,in this arena.
They cant cover everything in any detail, despite a long initial training..it is essentially a lot of 101 courses with a wide basis...they refer onto specialists anything and
everything outside of a tiny band of very
regularly presenting issues.

Simply, one is lucky if one happens to meet a gp with some awareness. It'd be the exception rather than the rule, statistically. Wink
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:13 am      Reply with quote
Your friend and you may just be unlucky is the only point Iím making. I have been very lucky in my situation with my hubby, but I have friends who arenít with my doctor who share the advice they are given and it is often with nutritional elements so its not so much the exception as you are saying here. I know someone who personally taught doctors since the 90ís and was angry that she was only given 2 years on each of their courses and sheís also teaching nutrition elsewhere now too but taught only doctors throughout the 90ís and worked at the first Nutrition College that was opened (although it was opened in the 80ís).

As to your son and his GP, Iíd say thatís recommendation enough to get a new one. Not all GPs are identical you know Ė there are GPs who do go through with nutritional advice and they are not exception to the rules.

UCL (one of the larger medical universities) does still have nutritional training on its syllabus for doctors as part of their 5 year course, also so do many of the other universities but I know UCL moreso because its also the hospital my hubby got his chemo at. I donít agree that they donít have the training or interest, sure not all do but to say they are all the same isnít my experience.

catski wrote:
Theresa, my best friend is a GP. She does make sure her kids eat oranges.

My son has been told by gp's that diet has no affect on acne. And cigarette smoking fry up eating family members with ulcers are given zantac.

They just dont have the training, the interest, the time or reason, to actually know what they would need to know to be helpful,in this arena.
They cant cover everything in any detail, despite a long initial training..it is essentially a lot of 101 courses with a wide basis...they refer onto specialists anything and
everything outside of a tiny band of very
regularly presenting issues.

Simply, one is lucky if one happens to meet a gp with some awareness. It'd be the exception rather than the rule, statistically. Wink
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:22 am      Reply with quote
Ok, thanks for sharing theresa mary. I'm seriously glad your experience has been so healing, with regard to your hubby. Truly fantastic.

Also glad some gp's are better than others. That was very much the way it looked to me as I went through the college years with my best friend, her peers varied enormously in talent, although they each had mastered that short term memory trick you need, to pass exams.

Btw, I dont go to the doctor very often, but when I do, I do mention about things like cal -mag, and beta glucans, in the hope they will pass on the info about these simple things that seriously improve the quality of life.

Good to spread the word!
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:23 am      Reply with quote
catski wrote:
Theresa, my best friend is a GP. She does make sure her kids eat oranges.

My son has been told by gp's that diet has no affect on acne. And cigarette smoking fry up eating family members with ulcers are given zantac.

They just dont have the training, the interest, the time or reason, to actually know what they would need to know to be helpful,in this arena.
They cant cover everything in any detail, despite a long initial training..it is essentially a lot of 101 courses with a wide basis...they refer onto specialists anything and
everything outside of a tiny band of very
regularly presenting issues.

Simply, one is lucky if one happens to meet a gp with some awareness. It'd be the exception rather than the rule, statistically. Wink



Hmmm... sounds like the same thing we're dealing with here in the good ole U.S. of A. I was wondering when someone from the U.K. would chime in. Probably be better served finding your son a good Naturopath. Crazy isn't it? Glad to hear from the other side... Thanks for posting Catski. Wink Best, Aprile
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:48 pm      Reply with quote
In Australia, natropaths are not regulated - so anyone can call themselves a natropath. Is this the same in the US and UK?

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/40276.html

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Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:37 pm      Reply with quote
This is for CA... I think it varies from state to state...

http://www.naturopathic.ca.gov/licensees/index.shtml

Actually, this link would be more helpful... again, CA only: http://www.naturopathic.ca.gov/consumers/faq_unlicensed.pdf

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Tue Sep 24, 2013 11:32 pm      Reply with quote
That would seem to make any discussion of whether doctors are trained in nutrition or graduated in the bottom half of their class redundant - as naturopaths aren't required to have any training in anything.

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Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:25 am      Reply with quote
I just wanted to let women in the US know that mammograms will not be recommended for women until they are age 50 and will stop being recommended for women after age 74 under the new healthcare act.

So if you've not had a mammogram lately and are nearing age 75 or are in your 40's, it might not be a bad idea to get a base line or an updated mammogram while under the old plan.

It's truly tragic that mammograms will not be offered between ages 40-50 because the younger you get breast cancer, the more deadly it is.

It also saddens me to think, women over 74 will have to wait for breast cancer to progress enough for manual detection before they will be able to justify treatment. I will be 74 in 12 years and I think I will want to live just as much as I do now.
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:02 am      Reply with quote
MaryClaire - I think you will find this booklet very interesting. It is put out by Breast Screen Australia. Basically, it is left up to the woman herself to decide whether she wants to continue having mammograms after the age of 70. The book is to help in making this decision - it's kind of involved though. The bottom line seems to be if you think you are at risk (according to the criteria in the booklet) then you should continue. If you are not at risk, then discontinue.

http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/cemped/docs/Mammogram_DecisionAid.pdf

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Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:53 am      Reply with quote
Thanks, Keliu; this booklet is a very good resource to those of us who are getting on.
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:03 am      Reply with quote
mismis wrote:
Thanks, Keliu; this booklet is a very good resource to those of us who are getting on.


Not really fun reading though is it!!

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Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:06 am      Reply with quote
As they say: getting old is not fun - and the alternative is even less fun!

I am just grateful that I live in an age where so much can be done to help with the problems that arise. And also grateful that I have such a wonderful GP and that the healthcare system in my country (Canada) allows me to consult with her whenever I have a concern at no cost. It must be very difficult if each visit to the doctor is tempered with weighing the dollar cost of taking care of one's health.

Even the relatively healthy - and I do count myself as one - generally find that as we age we do need more frequent health care consultations.
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:35 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
In Australia, natropaths are not regulated - so anyone can call themselves a natropath. Is this the same in the US and UK?

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/40276.html



ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Presently, Naturopaths are licensed in 14 states within the U.S., and that number is growing. Also, Doctors of Naturopathic Medicine are graduates of accredited four-year, graduate-level, in-residence naturopathic medical programs. Many naturopaths work in collaboration with the patient's PCP. Currently, my state, New York does not license Naturopathic Doctors, but they can still practice, maintaining a license as a naturopathic physician in at least one of the fourteen states. According to the web, the NYANP is actively pursuing licensure of Naturopathic Doctors in New York. Yipee!!!

NOW whether or not the insurance companies are going to cover services provided by naturopaths is a whole other ball of wax. Since they ARE medical doctors, with full training this is a big part of the problem with our system. Insurance companies should not be mandating that the patient seek the care of a certain type of practioner. Particularly since we do pay for our medical care. ~ Aprile
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:49 pm      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
Keliu wrote:
In Australia, natropaths are not regulated - so anyone can call themselves a natropath. Is this the same in the US and UK?

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/40276.html



ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Presently, Naturopaths are licensed in 14 states within the U.S., and that number is growing. Also, Doctors of Naturopathic Medicine are graduates of accredited four-year, graduate-level, in-residence naturopathic medical programs. Many naturopaths work in collaboration with the patient's PCP. Currently, my state, New York does not license Naturopathic Doctors, but they can still practice, maintaining a license as a naturopathic physician in at least one of the fourteen states. According to the web, the NYANP is actively pursuing licensure of Naturopathic Doctors in New York. Yipee!!!

NOW whether or not the insurance companies are going to cover services provided by naturopaths is a whole other ball of wax. Since they ARE medical doctors, with full training this is a big part of the problem with our system. Insurance companies should not be mandating that the patient seek the care of a certain type of practioner. Particularly since we do pay for our medical care. ~ Aprile


No Aprile, naturopathic Doctors (ND) are not considered MDs. In some places they are allowed to use the abbreviation NMD (Naturopathic Medical Doctors) but in no way are they allowed to call themselves simply MD.

Some Naturopaths do go to college; they are granted admission after completion of an undergraduate degree. The last I heard, there were 7 such colleges in North America (3 in Canada; 4 in the US). The most popular college is probably Bastyr, who offers the program. Surprisingly (to me at least) the program heavily emphasizes Homeopathy and Botanical formulations; there is no mention of Nutrition either:

http://www.bastyr.edu/academics/areas-study/study-naturopathic-medicine/naturopathic-doctor-degree-program#Curriculum

Other traditional naturopaths don't go to college; some attend non-accredited programs to learn their trade. Some are self-taught. There is no standard education for anyone who wants to call themselves a Naturopath. You never know what kind of person you are seeing when you go to see one, yet you place your health and well-being in their hands:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturopathy

Note that naturopathy is part of alternative medicine; practitioners believe the body can heal itself with help (if necessary) through homeopathy, botanicals, and other traditional (pre-science) methods. They generally do not believe in immunization (although some practitioners do personally support it). Naturopathy practices are rejected by modern western/allopathic medicine. To answers Keliu's question, licensing and regulation is done at the state/provincial level in the US and Canada.

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Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:41 pm
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