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Deb Crowley
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:57 am      Reply with quote
JenJ wrote:
This is a great thread! I have a wonderful, proactive doctor who checks the d level on all her patients. I keep my level around 80, so I need to take 12,000 IUs. I have this test annually to ensure I'm in an optimal range.

My sister, who is nurse and who was getting annual mammograms for the past 10 years, was diagnosed with Stage 1 breast cancer last November. The mammograms never indicated any concern, she was the one who found the lump.She did radiation and thankfully is doing very well. I turned her onto the oncologist who works for Life Extension. Julie is now taking 12, 000 IUs of D and her level rose from 42 to 76.

I also take vitamin K, magnesium, and Iodoral (iodine). I take NAC daily and it was recommended to my sister to take 2400mg of NAC daily.


Another wonderful supplement I take, amongst many others, is BrocColinate and started my sister on it months ago.


WOW. I have to take 20,000 to keep my levels up to 87. Goes to show what they mean that everyone will have to take different doses (for several reasons) to achieve levels they are looking for.

According to all I've researched. If you have breast cancer you have to take therapeutic doses. You need your levels between 75 - 90. Keeping in mind, where I live we don't tan we rust (N.Coast CA.) I'm RARELY outside enjoying sun (weather like Ireland (fog/cold) and you also have to take my age into account - 65. Again, when I first found out my D3 levels I was below 20! I Didn't know I had cancer yet.

Get this... My oncologist suggested I take 5,000 D3 and NO MENTION of k2. A friend also having cancer was told by her oncologist to take 20,000IU and to also take K2Mk7.

NEVER LEAVE YOUR HEALTH UP TO ANYONE...WITHOUT DOING YOUR RESEARCH.

Again, EVERYONE'S levels should be 50-60 NOT 30-40 for prevention ...and you must take k2Mk7 to keep the calcium out of the tissue and into the bone.

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bethany
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:01 pm      Reply with quote
I originally had a D3 level of 11...it takes 10,000ius to keep me between 55 and 75. But no one ever told me to take K2. Shock

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Deb Crowley
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:38 pm      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
I originally had a D3 level of 11...it takes 10,000ius to keep me between 55 and 75. But no one ever told me to take K2. Shock


So glad you caught it in time!!! Be sure you get k2Mk7 Not k2Mk4 both good but Research the difference. Best for breast k2Mk7 even though Mk7 says it's soy (not good for cancer) it is fermented soy... no problem

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Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:13 pm      Reply with quote
Deb Crowley wrote:
So glad you caught it in time!!! Be sure you get k2Mk7 Not k2Mk4 both good but Research the difference. Best for breast k2Mk7 even though Mk7 says it's soy (not good for cancer) it is fermented soy... no problem


Can you provide a link to scientific study/research for k2MK7? I was able to find this for MK4 related to bone health:

The objective of this study was to evaluate the impact of phylloquinone or MK4 treatment on markers of skeletal turnover and BMD in nonosteoporotic, postmenopausal, North American women. In this double-blind, placebo-controlled study, 381 postmenopausal women received phylloquinone (1 mg daily), MK4 (45 mg daily), or placebo for 12 mo. All participants received daily calcium and vitamin D3 supplementation. Serum bone-specific alkaline phosphatase (BSALP) and n-telopeptide of type 1 collagen (NTX) were measured at baseline and 1, 3, 6, and 12 mo. Lumbar spine and proximal femur BMD and proximal femur geometry were measured by DXA at baseline and 6 and 12 mo. At baseline, the three treatment groups did not differ in demographics or study endpoints. Compliance with calcium, phylloquinone, and MK4 treatment was 93%, 93%, and 87%, respectively. Phylloquinone and MK4 treatment reduced serum undercarboxylated osteocalcin but did not alter BSALP or NTX. No effect of phylloquinone or MK4 on lumbar spine or proximal femur BMD or proximal femur geometric parameters was observed. This study does not support a role for vitamin K supplementation in osteoporosis prevention among healthy, postmenopausal, North American women receiving calcium and vitamin D supplementation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683650/

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Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:42 pm      Reply with quote
This is probably the best info. on all forms of Vitamin K.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/jan2009_Vitamin-K-Protection-Against-Arterial-Calcification-Bone-Loss-Cancer-Aging_01.htm

I personally don't believe the higher you supplement with D3, the higher your K2 dose should be.100mcg MK7 should do the job.I have seen this topic discussed before but until I see more conclusive research, I'll stick to what Life Extension and most others recommend.
Deb Crowley
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:09 pm      Reply with quote
Pandax12 wrote:
This is probably the best info. on all forms of Vitamin K.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/jan2009_Vitamin-K-Protection-Against-Arterial-Calcification-Bone-Loss-Cancer-Aging_01.htm

I personally don't believe the higher you supplement with D3, the higher your K2 dose should be.100mcg MK7 should do the job.I have seen this topic discussed before but until I see more conclusive research, I'll stick to what Life Extension and most others recommend.


Hi Pandax

Here is a link to a video re: K2Mk7... She explains it quite well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET_2w9OOdtY

I just bought her book. Note the recommendation to take higher doses near end of pregnancy!

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Deb Crowley
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:06 pm      Reply with quote
Lacy53 wrote:
Deb Crowley wrote:
So glad you caught it in time!!! Be sure you get k2Mk7 Not k2Mk4 both good but Research the difference. Best for breast k2Mk7 even though Mk7 says it's soy (not good for cancer) it is fermented soy... no problem


Can you provide a link to scientific study/research for k2MK7? I was able to find this for MK4 related to bone health:

The objective of this study was to evaluate the impact of phylloquinone or MK4 treatment on markers of skeletal turnover and BMD in nonosteoporotic, postmenopausal, North American women. In this double-blind, placebo-controlled study, 381 postmenopausal women received phylloquinone (1 mg daily), MK4 (45 mg daily), or placebo for 12 mo. All participants received daily calcium and vitamin D3 supplementation. Serum bone-specific alkaline phosphatase (BSALP) and n-telopeptide of type 1 collagen (NTX) were measured at baseline and 1, 3, 6, and 12 mo. Lumbar spine and proximal femur BMD and proximal femur geometry were measured by DXA at baseline and 6 and 12 mo. At baseline, the three treatment groups did not differ in demographics or study endpoints. Compliance with calcium, phylloquinone, and MK4 treatment was 93%, 93%, and 87%, respectively. Phylloquinone and MK4 treatment reduced serum undercarboxylated osteocalcin but did not alter BSALP or NTX. No effect of phylloquinone or MK4 on lumbar spine or proximal femur BMD or proximal femur geometric parameters was observed. This study does not support a role for vitamin K supplementation in osteoporosis prevention among healthy, postmenopausal, North American women receiving calcium and vitamin D supplementation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2683650/


Hi,

Check out these links

D3 kills cancer cells:
http://m.naturalnews.com/news/038849_vitamin_d_breast_cancer_science.html


Watch this video about k2Mk7:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET_2w9OOdtY

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Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:00 pm      Reply with quote
Very good video Deb. While I still think 100mcg of mk7 is sufficient for most people, maybe more is even better.Time will tell I suppose. I looked at my multi-vit and it gives me an additional 60mcg mk7. Plus diet, I figure I'm getting at least 180mcg daily.
Anyone know much about Brie cheese? I know it's French and has been banned in the US due to being from raw milk. But I've read it is available in a non-raw form. Is that form still loaded with K2??? And where can you buy it in the US? Kroger?? Publix??
bethany
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Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:25 pm      Reply with quote
Publix definitely carries Brie!

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Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:44 am      Reply with quote
Awesome post. My dh had cancer a little while back and has been in remission now for a year, and long may that continue, but our doctors in the UK never tested him re Vit D. I might get him to go and get one done, as I would be interested to know what his levels are.
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:05 am      Reply with quote
We don't tan, we rust...lol! Deb, I'm about 4.5 hours south of you and know your area well. Wishing I was there now in the cooler weather.

A best friend of mine was diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of 47. She's almost 51 now. Her primary doctor had told her that since she was never a smoker, she could continue taking the pill until she reached menopause. The first thing she was told when diagnosed was to stop the birth control pills. My sister had also been on them for 16 years and was told to stop taking the pill as well. She was also 47 at the time and had been told the same thing....safe to continue the pill until menopause. I had been on them a few years in my 20s, but stopped.

After speaking to a couple of bio-identical specialists and having it confirmed by my doctor, what scared me was when I told that many birth control products that contain synthetic hormones to prevent ovulation, which means your body does not produce progesterone. I was like, ok so why is that important? Progesterone (progestins are synthetic) is a balancing hormone and offers many health benefits. Estrogen dominance (low progesterone) can put one at risk for cancer. Years of taking bc pills or other related types of bc means years that your body was not producing progesterone and when you think about the possible repercussions that is a bit scary. That's why when women decide to get pregnant and go off the pill, it may take up to a month for her cycle to regulate. Progesterone is needed to get pregnant and maintain pregnancy.

When I asked about the safest method of birth control, it was suggested either the natural method of tracking your cycle and avoiding that time or a IUD that does not contain any synthetic hormones, such as the copper IUD, or condoms. Why the potential harm of birth control pills isn't common knowledge baffles me.I know that when I was 20, I would not want to hear about the danger and would probably have continued taking them.

Women's International Pharmacy has a great online newsletter called Connections and one is all about Progesterone...you can find it on their website if interested.
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:29 am      Reply with quote
My Family Doctor has recommended the website "The Vitamin D Society" @ -www.vitamindsociety.org. Worth the read.

JenJ - I had my levels of estrogen, progesterone, dhea and testerone tested by my Naturopath via salvia testing. (However my Family Doctor believes that only testing by blood is accurate). I was found to be estrogen dominant and at a risk for cancer. I have now been on topical progesterone for the last 10 months and can't believe the difference in how I feel. I sleep better and I feel emotionally better balanced.
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:40 am      Reply with quote
Stovetop, just an fyi that I had my hormones tested via salvia and blood, and the scores were about the same.

I also take progesterone, but an oral form because I couldn't deal with the creams 2x a day. It has definitely worked wonders for me too.

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Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:13 am      Reply with quote
OK then, how does that work, the Mini Pill is a progesterone only pill and I am on the Depot provera which is also progesterone only.
I was on the combined pill (COC) which is a mixture of synthetic oestrogen and progesterone, but had to come off it due to BP issues.

I dont quite get the progesterone reasoning !!

Sorry.

Just to add you can also get non- oestrogen related tumours too ( my mums was).

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Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:18 am      Reply with quote
Syliva,

Both the mini pill and Depo Provera contain progestins, not progesterone. Progestins are synthetics formulated to mimic hormones. That's the reason for the list of possible risk factors in small print.

It can be very confusing and there are doctors who believe progestins to be the same as progesterone.

I've been using a topical progesterone cream since my mid 30s to control pms and it worked beautifully. I was no longer a quick-tempered, emotional witch during during that time of the month. Now at almost 51, I'm using it to maintain hormonal balance since I now use a bio identical Bi-Est cream. Since I still have monthly cycles, my instructions are to apply the cream 2 weeks out of the month (days 14-28 of my cycle). Friends of mine who no longer have a montly period apply their cream 3 weeks out of the month and take 1 week off.


Here's a link to the progesterone information I mentioned in the earlier post.

http://www.womensinternational.com/connections/progesterone.html
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:22 am      Reply with quote
thanks for that it Is confusing Rolling Eyes

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Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:26 am      Reply with quote
bethany wrote:
Stovetop, just an fyi that I had my hormones tested via salvia and blood, and the scores were about the same.

I also take progesterone, but an oral form because I couldn't deal with the creams 2x a day. It has definitely worked wonders for me too.


So glad it's working for you! I couldn't believe it when my PMS issues become a non-issue years ago after starting using a progesterone cream. I have mine compounded through Women's International Pharmacy and so happy with their product & service. If a doctor is not trained in bios, the WIP pharmacists are happy to review lab results and offer dosage recommendations to the doctor. There is no fee for this. I found this out after spending hundreds with a bio specialist, which in many areas, it can be almost impossible to find one and/or it can be quite cost prohibitive.
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:32 am      Reply with quote
10Sylvia5 wrote:
thanks for that it Is confusing Rolling Eyes


You're so welcome! My sister, who has been a nurse, for 20 years never thought about progestins or progesterone and really didn't understand the difference. That has since changed.

My 18 year old niece was placed on bc pills last year due to being diagnosed with a pretty severe case of PCOS. I was hugely concerned about that because I knew it meant she'd probably be on them several decades and it their usage would contribute to even more hormonal imbalance. Luckily my sister listened to me and they met with a bio specialist last month who took Ang off the bc pill and started her on progesterone.
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Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:35 am      Reply with quote
i soo wish we had compounding pharmacies in the UK.Not sure how many GPs here are into biological hormone therapy, most just use HRT. At least as far as I know.

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Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:38 am      Reply with quote
Ahhh..yes a friend of mine lived in London and for years would go to France to get her bio identical hormones.

Hopefully this link may offer some helpful recommendations.

http://www.thehealthdoctors.co.uk/bioidentical_hormones.php
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Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:42 pm      Reply with quote
Bethany and Kassy! wave

And everyone else... lots of familiar faces Smile (although Kassy and Bethany are probably the only people who would remember me...)

Deb, thanks for starting this interesting discussion! I just bought the 3rd edition of FE and found your link to this thread over on the FE workshop forum.

Some years ago, it was becoming a regular thing for me to have a new cavity discovered every time I went to have my teeth cleaned. Eventually I went to Google, which led me to the Weston Price Foundation.... and by fall of 2011 I had bought Blue Ice brand fermented Cod Lover Oil, Butter Oil (Weston Price people swear by that combination), and a "super K2" complex by Life Extension. I had already been taking vitamin D and magnesium.

At my next cleaning in April 2012, the dentist said my teeth were looking great, I had no cavities, and I was in and out of the office in about 15 minutes. Ditto for every cleaning since then.

It could all be a big happy coincidence, but I'm thinking the supplements (plus some dietary changes, like cutting out most forms of sugar) had something to do with it. Hopefully this also translates to good bone density in general and good overall health. Despite this, I do suspect I have some facial bone loss, but since my teeth seem to have improved I'd like to think maybe I can use FE to put a halt to any further loss.

Edited to add: I'm sure hormones will also be playing a role here soon, as if things weren't already complicated enough... Confused but so far, so good...

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Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:33 pm      Reply with quote
Low....we have missed you!!! So glad to see you back!

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Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:11 am      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Bethany and Kassy! wave

And everyone else... lots of familiar faces Smile (although Kassy and Bethany are probably the only people who would remember me...)

Deb, thanks for starting this interesting discussion! I just bought the 3rd edition of FE and found your link to this thread over on the FE workshop forum.

Some years ago, it was becoming a regular thing for me to have a new cavity discovered every time I went to have my teeth cleaned. Eventually I went to Google, which led me to the Weston Price Foundation.... and by fall of 2011 I had bought Blue Ice brand fermented Cod Lover Oil, Butter Oil (Weston Price people swear by that combination), and a "super K2" complex by Life Extension. I had already been taking vitamin D and magnesium.

At my next cleaning in April 2012, the dentist said my teeth were looking great, I had no cavities, and I was in and out of the office in about 15 minutes. Ditto for every cleaning since then.

It could all be a big happy coincidence, but I'm thinking the supplements (plus some dietary changes, like cutting out most forms of sugar) had something to do with it. Hopefully this also translates to good bone density in general and good overall health. Despite this, I do suspect I have some facial bone loss, but since my teeth seem to have improved I'd like to think maybe I can use FE to put a halt to any further loss.

Edited to add: I'm sure hormones will also be playing a role here soon, as if things weren't already complicated enough... Confused but so far, so good...


Hi Lowbrow, THanks for sharing your great results at the dentist. Good for you for cutting out most forms of sugar!! That definitely helps the body become healthier all the way around. I recently read on a doctor's website about him doing a personal study using magnesium oil rinses to help with periodental disease. I am curious to see the results of his research. I too am interested to see if FE bone work can help. As far as I know, there is no concrete evidence of the exercises increasing bone density in the facial bones, but I wouldn't discount anything. Best, Aprile Smile
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Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:29 am      Reply with quote
Lowbrowscientist wrote:
Bethany and Kassy! wave

And everyone else... lots of familiar faces Smile (although Kassy and Bethany are probably the only people who would remember me...)

Deb, thanks for starting this interesting discussion! I just bought the 3rd edition of FE and found your link to this thread over on the FE workshop forum.

Some years ago, it was becoming a regular thing for me to have a new cavity discovered every time I went to have my teeth cleaned. Eventually I went to Google, which led me to the Weston Price Foundation.... and by fall of 2011 I had bought Blue Ice brand fermented Cod Lover Oil, Butter Oil (Weston Price people swear by that combination), and a "super K2" complex by Life Extension. I had already been taking vitamin D and magnesium.

At my next cleaning in April 2012, the dentist said my teeth were looking great, I had no cavities, and I was in and out of the office in about 15 minutes. Ditto for every cleaning since then.
It could all be a big happy coincidence, but I'm thinking the supplements (plus some dietary changes, like cutting out most forms of sugar) had something to do with it. Hopefully this also translates to good bone density in general and good overall health. Despite this, I do suspect I have some facial bone loss, but since my teeth seem to have improved I'd like to think maybe I can use FE to put a halt to any further loss.

Edited to add: I'm sure hormones will also be playing a role here soon, as if things weren't already complicated enough... Confused but so far, so good...


Sorry I know this is off topic but any dental office that is doing a 15 minute cleaning is ripping you off; cavities or not.

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Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:43 am      Reply with quote
Pandax12 wrote:
This is probably the best info. on all forms of Vitamin K.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/jan2009_Vitamin-K-Protection-Against-Arterial-Calcification-Bone-Loss-Cancer-Aging_01.htm

I personally don't believe the higher you supplement with D3, the higher your K2 dose should be.100mcg MK7 should do the job.I have seen this topic discussed before but until I see more conclusive research, I'll stick to what Life Extension and most others recommend.


The youtube Deb posted with Dr. Mercola and the MK2 expert mentioned a ratio of 1000 D to 100mcg K2 as a general rec.

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