Shop with us!!! We sell the most advanced skin care anti-aging cosmetics on the market: cellex-c, phytomer, sothys, dermalogica, md formulations, decleor, valmont, kinerase, yonka, jane iredale, thalgo, yon-ka, ahava, bioelements, jan marini, peter thomas roth, murad, ddf, orlane, glominerals, StriVectin SD.
 
 back to skin care discussion board front page with forums indexEDS Skin Care Forums Search the ForumSearch Most popular all-time Forum TopicsHot! Library
 Guidelines  FAQ  Register
Free gifts for Forum MembersForum Gifts Free Gifts offers at Essential Day SpaFree Gifts Offers  Log in



Peter Thomas Roth Cucumber De-Tox Hydrating Serum (30 ml / 1 floz) Pevonia Spa Clinica Pro Micro-Retinol Essential Moisturizer (50 ml / 1.7 floz) Anthony Logistics Wake Up Call Hydrating Treatment Gel (90 ml / 3 floz)
Cancer Prevention

EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » EDS Lounge
Reply to topic
Author Message
Keliu
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 6560
Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:18 am      Reply with quote
catski wrote:
I didnt mention MMS.


Cancer as fungus is considered to be bunkum by those that consider it to be bunkum , and cancer is fungus theory is considered to be profoundly true by those who have treated cancer as a fungus and cured themselves of it.

Lets keep a balanced and respectful view, shall we, and not dismiss ideas that have many testimonials asserting their validity, just because we find them new or unusual, or because we are bewildered by them.


If cancer was a fungus and could be cured by baking soda do you not think that everyone would accept the fact and the discovery would be awarded the Nobel Prize. There is absolutely no clinical data which supports this view.

http://videosift.com/video/Oncological-Quackery-2-0-Cancer-is-fungus-says-douchebag

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/08/07/a-fungus-among-us-in-oncology/

BTW, MMS or Miracle Mineral Supplement is the generic name for the treatment of drinking bleach. I think I mentioned earlier in the thread that a neighbour of mine has gone overseas to do just this because the treatment has been banned here.

_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!!
Keliu
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 6560
Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:56 am      Reply with quote
Here's some useful information from the Australian Cancer Council about what does not cause cancer:

http://www.cancercouncil.com.au/50359/research-at-cancer-council-nsw/cancer-myths/what-really-causes-cancer/cancer-questions-and-facts/#medicalindustry

This is also from the Australian Cancer Council on the subject of Bicarbonate of Soda curing cancer:

Quote:
Sodium bicarbonate, also known as baking soda, is promoted by some alternative practitioners as a cancer treatment. One of the theories is that cancer is caused by a form of yeast infection, from a type of yeast known as Candida albicans, and that sodium bicarbonate can kill the yeast. There is no credible evidence to support this claim. Another theory is that cancer cells thrive in a low oxygen environment that likes the blood to be acidic. By consuming baking soda you restore the alkalinity, so the cancer can’t survive. There is no scientific evidence for this theory either. The idea that sodium bicarbonate works as a treatment for any form of cancer has no substance. There is substantive evidence, however, that while sodium bicarbonate is safe when used in proper doses and as directed, high doses can cause serious problems or even death.

This page was last updated on: 10 May 2013
http://iheard.com.au/question/bi-carb-soda-cures-cancer/

_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!!
Yubs
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 476
Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:13 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Yubs wrote:
Many "alternative" ideas will be vindicated (and some will definitively be disproved as...bunkum Very Happy).

As far as panos...even a stopped clock is right twice per day (analog, that is Laughing). Panos has tossed out a few nuggets here and there that I agree with, myself, even if overall he leaves me puzzled, and frequently annoyed. However, If I ever do heart him, please do not make the mistake of discounting me entirely for that.


But many of the alternative theories that are expressed here have already been proven as bunkum - that's the point. And in regard to Panos - if that is your opinion, why did you PM me with your advice?


Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! You need to check your inbox again, Keliu! I have NEVER PM'd you about panos or anything. EVER. In the whole 7 or whatever years I've been around. So please, PLEASE please,don't try to make it seem like I am whispering secrets in your ear via PM and then behaving another way on the board.

I strongly urge you to clear that up, please.

I *did* give you a one line heads up about ignoring panos in some thread when he first came around and seemed to be behaving strangely. I had observed him from another forum and he was not as confrontational or..."enlightened" Laughing about his advice before this recent spate of "light & air fructarianism". At the point I gave you the [public] heads up, I was unsure if he was trolling or not. It was just a friendly piece of advice.

At any rate, I stand by my right not to dismiss people entirely because I don't like some or even most of what they say, or (just for example) even because I think they may be a little crazy or whatever. Perhaps you are that dismissive of people, but I'm not.

As far as your saying that many of those alternative treatments theories have been proved to be bunkum...to your satisfaction, with the current state of science. Not to mine. Or to a lot of other people here.

A good example of the fringe being correct is the fact that many cancers are caused by viruses. When I first was explosed to that "nutty" idea 30 years ago by friends and books on alternative health, mainstream science was contemptuous and dismissive of it. Now we have the Gardisil vaccine that addresses *ahem* the virus that causes cervical cancer. It's not particularly effective, and could even be dangerous, but its existence is a frank admission by mainstream science that the fringe was right all along.
panoslydios
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 323
Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:24 am      Reply with quote
catski wrote:
With regard to cancer prevention. I have heard that cancer is essentially, on a physical level, happy to develope in a body which lacks oxygenation and is therefore condusive to fungus. Apparently cancer is a kind of fungal growth.

This is why food grade hydrogen peroxide drunk in extremely dilute form is considered to be an excellent preventive and treatment.

I heard also that extremely dilute gum resin does the job of removing cancer and preventing the cancer friendly environment, also.

Pure resin used for this is pure turpentine, from pine trees.


Once again,catski,you can get oxygenation from breathing,hatha yoga and exercise and of course keeping the window open when you sleep.

You are obviously not deficient in H202 ,so if you rely on this for oxygenation,you make a body addicted to get stuff from external sources and in the long run it will become lazy.
If you dont use your own mechanisms to oxygenate your body by themselves you will degrade them.
As simple as that.
------------------------------------------------

MMS is a poison,cause it just makes more HCL acid.
Acidic methods are helpful only when someone is dying ,to prolong life and never for real cures.
Acids just kill cells and sterilize bodies.

_________________
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
aprile
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1149
Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:23 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
catski wrote:


This is why food grade hydrogen peroxide drunk in extremely dilute form is considered to be an excellent preventive and treatment.



Don't tell me you're recommending MMS Therapy - it's banned in Australia, it's extremely dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_Mineral_Supplement

http://www.smh.com.au/national/miracle-elixir-linked-to-death-illness-20100821-13a2z.html

The whole "cancer is fungus" theory is also regarded as bunkum.

http://videosift.com/video/Oncological-Quackery-2-0-Cancer-is-fungus-says-douchebag


Keliu - You need to stop acting as though everything is black and white because it's not. Many practioners have made the connection between breast cancer and fungus and have found a connection to fibromyaligia and CFS as well. History proves that more than one medical practitioner has been ostracized from their profession for daring to go places where others would not.

Case in point, Dr. David Derry of Canada who was dismissed from his position at the college where he practiced for over thirty years. He had been successfully treating thyroid disease patients with an original protocol he had learned in medical school, which was to administer dessicated thyroid to treat the disease. He also later made the connection between thyroid disease and iodine deficiency. Dr. Derry was so successful he had an international following. There's a lot more to the story, but in a nutshell he was dismissed of his duties after not adapting the new T4 protocol introduced in 1974, when there were no studies to prove it more effective than the original protocol. Suffice it to say medicine has abandoned many standardized protocols that worked fine in lieu of the "next best thing". This does not mean the new protocols are *always* better.

Dr. Derry also adheres to the principle that breast cancer is closely connected to iodine deficiency and that advanced fibrocystic breast disease is the first sign of the disease and can be reversed using iodine supplementation. This is what I am doing and it is working beautifully for me, despite the fact that I was told I had "lumpy, bumpy" breasts over thirty years ago by my gyn. Suffice it to say over the years, not one of my doctors EVER mentioned iodine to me as a possible treatment for fibrocystic breast disease. Why iodine fell out of grace within the medical community is beyond me.

Below is a quote from Dr. Derry who is no longer practicing medicine:

Quote:
My aim in 30 years of General Practice (an honor and a privilege) was to learn carefully and persistently how to listen to the patient. This is the one area of medical research that has gone almost totally un-examined. Sir William Osler, who I feel was the greatest physician of all time, said: if you listen to the patient they will usually give you the diagnosis and if you listen even more carefully they will likely indicate the best treatment for them. Gradually with the help of multiple self-development courses over the years I learned to listen by just getting my ego out of the way. From my patients I learned everything. Because of the arrival of effective treatments with potential side-effects, in 1945 the out-dated Hippocratic oath of “do no harm” was replaced with a new principle of ethical patient care namely “Consider first the well-being of the patient.” Combining extensive medical-literature reading with what I learned daily from patients clarified which approaches and treatments assured the “well-being of the patient.”


I believe this statement speaks volumes. Modern medicine as a whole has strayed so far from their orginal principles in the name of "advancement". But I beg to differ that in many instances, it's in the name of greed. That is why Keliu, the other camp is so willing to use some critical thinking and be open to alternative options. Btw, this is not just my own opinion based upon personal observations. "In 1993 Ghent and Eskin published a landmark paper on the treatment of severe fibrocystic disease of the breast with iodine supplements. This paper was the result of more than 30 years of marvelous research by Dr. Bernard. A. Eskin of the Medical College of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. First in animals and then in humans he proved fibrocystic disease of the breast is the result of low dietary iodine. He has shown also that this can go on to develop into breast cancer. According to Dr. Derry - "I feel Dr. Eskin's research represents a major step toward conquering breast cancer and likely other cancers." So I ask WHY has there not been further research? I think you KNOW the answer.

Here is just one link if anyone is interested in reading:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8221402

~ Aprile
Deb Crowley
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 132
Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:48 am      Reply with quote
felixia said:
Quote:
Another perspective on the study claiming a link between HPVV and Primary Ovarian Failure:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/09/antivaccinationists-against-the-hpv-vaccine-round-5000/


Here is another interesting read:

David Gorski’s Financial Pharma Ties: What He Didn’t Tell You.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financial-pharma-ties-what-he-didnt-tell-you.html


"He has become the online spokesperson for the vaccine industry... industry-sponsored “Science”Blogs where he's Posting under the science fiction name “Orac,” David Gorski ...."


"Well, it so happens Sanofi-Aventis – the world’s largest vaccine maker - is involved in several partnerships under which the company may be required to pay a total of €31 million ($39 million USD) from 2008 to 2013. Gorski’s employer, Wayne State University, is one of the partners, and he is conducting a clinical trial of one of the company’s drugs. Therefore, like Offit (who concealed the millions he received in Merck royalty payments because Merck paid the royalties to a third party, not Offit directly) Gorski has a reasonable expectation to receive money from a vaccine maker, even if it is through a third party. A look at the summary description of the Gorski Lab reveals that his research focus is drug discovery and development. However, he is not developing a new drug, but rather, developing new uses for an existing one. Such a process is far more profitable to the drug manufacturer as it eliminates the costs of developing a new substance from scratch, thereby maximizing profits for the company."

_________________
Founder of FlexEffect Facialbuilding. My Photo Journal: FlexEffect.com/deb-photos
sister sweets
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 5982
Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:21 pm      Reply with quote
Deb Crowley wrote:
felixia said:
Quote:
Another perspective on the study claiming a link between HPVV and Primary Ovarian Failure:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/09/antivaccinationists-against-the-hpv-vaccine-round-5000/


Here is another interesting read:

David Gorski’s Financial Pharma Ties: What He Didn’t Tell You.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financial-pharma-ties-what-he-didnt-tell-you.html


"He has become the online spokesperson for the vaccine industry... industry-sponsored “Science”Blogs where he's Posting under the science fiction name “Orac,” David Gorski ...."


"Well, it so happens Sanofi-Aventis – the world’s largest vaccine maker - is involved in several partnerships under which the company may be required to pay a total of €31 million ($39 million USD) from 2008 to 2013. Gorski’s employer, Wayne State University, is one of the partners, and he is conducting a clinical trial of one of the company’s drugs. Therefore, like Offit (who concealed the millions he received in Merck royalty payments because Merck paid the royalties to a third party, not Offit directly) Gorski has a reasonable expectation to receive money from a vaccine maker, even if it is through a third party. A look at the summary description of the Gorski Lab reveals that his research focus is drug discovery and development. However, he is not developing a new drug, but rather, developing new uses for an existing one. Such a process is far more profitable to the drug manufacturer as it eliminates the costs of developing a new substance from scratch, thereby maximizing profits for the company."


...And there ya go! Money and profiteering coming before the basic premise of patient care. Anyone who isn't skeptical and cautious about the financial gain aspect is choosing to be an ostrich. I daresay if some on here were to get breast cancer (or other situations) they may think twice about some things. Even if Aprile and Deb and Claudia's information isnt' being validated they are opening some eyes. Thanks you guys.

_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event.
aprile
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1149
Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:07 pm      Reply with quote
Deb Crowley wrote:
felixia said:
Quote:
Another perspective on the study claiming a link between HPVV and Primary Ovarian Failure:
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/08/09/antivaccinationists-against-the-hpv-vaccine-round-5000/


Here is another interesting read:

David Gorski’s Financial Pharma Ties: What He Didn’t Tell You.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financial-pharma-ties-what-he-didnt-tell-you.html


"He has become the online spokesperson for the vaccine industry... industry-sponsored “Science”Blogs where he's Posting under the science fiction name “Orac,” David Gorski ...."


"Well, it so happens Sanofi-Aventis – the world’s largest vaccine maker - is involved in several partnerships under which the company may be required to pay a total of €31 million ($39 million USD) from 2008 to 2013. Gorski’s employer, Wayne State University, is one of the partners, and he is conducting a clinical trial of one of the company’s drugs. Therefore, like Offit (who concealed the millions he received in Merck royalty payments because Merck paid the royalties to a third party, not Offit directly) Gorski has a reasonable expectation to receive money from a vaccine maker, even if it is through a third party. A look at the summary description of the Gorski Lab reveals that his research focus is drug discovery and development. However, he is not developing a new drug, but rather, developing new uses for an existing one. Such a process is far more profitable to the drug manufacturer as it eliminates the costs of developing a new substance from scratch, thereby maximizing profits for the company."


WOW ~ I would certainly *hope* this would be an eye-opener for those who think that there couldn't possibly be deception in the pharmaceutical world. What a surprise that the ScienceBlogs website used as a source here a gazillion times is a basically a *spokesperson* for pharmaceutical industry. Still wondering why we're so cynical Keliu and Lacy?
Lacy53
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 782
Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:36 pm      Reply with quote
Deb Crowley wrote:
Here is another interesting read:

David Gorski’s Financial Pharma Ties: What He Didn’t Tell You.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financial-pharma-ties-what-he-didnt-tell-you.html

"He has become the online spokesperson for the vaccine industry... industry-sponsored “Science”Blogs where he's Posting under the science fiction name “Orac,” David Gorski ...."

"Well, it so happens Sanofi-Aventis – the world’s largest vaccine maker - is involved in several partnerships under which the company may be required to pay a total of €31 million ($39 million USD) from 2008 to 2013. Gorski’s employer, Wayne State University, is one of the partners, and he is conducting a clinical trial of one of the company’s drugs. Therefore, like Offit (who concealed the millions he received in Merck royalty payments because Merck paid the royalties to a third party, not Offit directly) Gorski has a reasonable expectation to receive money from a vaccine maker, even if it is through a third party. A look at the summary description of the Gorski Lab reveals that his research focus is drug discovery and development. However, he is not developing a new drug, but rather, developing new uses for an existing one. Such a process is far more profitable to the drug manufacturer as it eliminates the costs of developing a new substance from scratch, thereby maximizing profits for the company."

sister sweets wrote:
...And there ya go! Money and profiteering coming before the basic premise of patient care. Anyone who isn't skeptical and cautious about the financial gain aspect is choosing to be an ostrich. I daresay if some on here were to get breast cancer (or other situations) they may think twice about some things. Even if Aprile and Deb and Claudia's information isnt' being validated they are opening some eyes. Thanks you guys.

aprile wrote:
WOW ~ I would certainly *hope* this would be an eye-opener for those who think that there couldn't possibly be deception in the pharmaceutical world. What a surprise that the ScienceBlogs website used as a source here a gazillion times is a basically a *spokesperson* for pharmaceutical industry. Still wondering why we're so cynical Keliu and Lacy?


No, the WOW is actually the lack of understanding displayed in these posts of what actually constitutes "conflict of interest", "full disclosure" and "deception in the pharmaceutical world". Regardless, Dr. Gorski has addressed the accusations here:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-price-of-skepticism/

As far as Sister Sweets' comment about money and profiteering coming before the basic premise of patient care, you couldn't be more wrong about Dr. Gorski. He is an extremely intelligent and compassionate man, an excellent medical researcher, and a fully competent doctor/surgical oncologist. I say this based on indirect but personal experience; what is the basis of your comment Sis?

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/editorial-staff/david-h-gorski-md-phd-managing-editor/

_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin
Lacy53
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 782
Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:50 pm      Reply with quote
Here is the latest report from the Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety (World Heath Organization) on HPV Vaccines:

http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/hpv/130619HPV_VaccineGACVSstatement.pdf

No mention of safety concerns regarding primary ovarian failure, even after 175 million doses of HPV vaccines have been distributed and administered worldwide.

_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin
sister sweets
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 5982
Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:12 pm      Reply with quote
Lacy53 wrote:
Deb Crowley wrote:
Here is another interesting read:

David Gorski’s Financial Pharma Ties: What He Didn’t Tell You.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/06/david-gorskis-financial-pharma-ties-what-he-didnt-tell-you.html

"He has become the online spokesperson for the vaccine industry... industry-sponsored “Science”Blogs where he's Posting under the science fiction name “Orac,” David Gorski ...."

"Well, it so happens Sanofi-Aventis – the world’s largest vaccine maker - is involved in several partnerships under which the company may be required to pay a total of €31 million ($39 million USD) from 2008 to 2013. Gorski’s employer, Wayne State University, is one of the partners, and he is conducting a clinical trial of one of the company’s drugs. Therefore, like Offit (who concealed the millions he received in Merck royalty payments because Merck paid the royalties to a third party, not Offit directly) Gorski has a reasonable expectation to receive money from a vaccine maker, even if it is through a third party. A look at the summary description of the Gorski Lab reveals that his research focus is drug discovery and development. However, he is not developing a new drug, but rather, developing new uses for an existing one. Such a process is far more profitable to the drug manufacturer as it eliminates the costs of developing a new substance from scratch, thereby maximizing profits for the company."

sister sweets wrote:
...And there ya go! Money and profiteering coming before the basic premise of patient care. Anyone who isn't skeptical and cautious about the financial gain aspect is choosing to be an ostrich. I daresay if some on here were to get breast cancer (or other situations) they may think twice about some things. Even if Aprile and Deb and Claudia's information isnt' being validated they are opening some eyes. Thanks you guys.

aprile wrote:
WOW ~ I would certainly *hope* this would be an eye-opener for those who think that there couldn't possibly be deception in the pharmaceutical world. What a surprise that the ScienceBlogs website used as a source here a gazillion times is a basically a *spokesperson* for pharmaceutical industry. Still wondering why we're so cynical Keliu and Lacy?


No, the WOW is actually the lack of understanding displayed in these posts of what actually constitutes "conflict of interest", "full disclosure" and "deception in the pharmaceutical world". Regardless, Dr. Gorski has addressed the accusations here:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-price-of-skepticism/

As far as Sister Sweets' comment about money and profiteering coming before the basic premise of patient care, you couldn't be more wrong about Dr. Gorski.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/editorial-staff/david-h-gorski-md-phd-managing-editor/


Lacey.. so the ends justify the means? I'm not following your train of thought. (thankfully Rolling Eyes ). Like you, I don't know the 'good doctor' personally but his *practices* speak for themselves. I would never trust someone who operated this way. And you do??? Wow.
You gloss over his desire for profit at the cost of what is morally acceptable and as to that... "What is it we don't know? What isn't in print could be far worse". I'll assume it is an embarrassment for him to have such things exposed in this way - What I don't understand is your need to protect someone proven to undertake unethical practice... and someone you don't know - very odd indeed Idea

_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event.
sister sweets
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 5982
Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:13 pm      Reply with quote
Nothing more to say. Very Happy

_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event.
aprile
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1149
Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:28 pm      Reply with quote
Quote:
What I don't understand is your need to protect someone proven to undertake unethical practice... and someone you don't know - very odd indeed Idea


Ditto...me either!!! Shock
sister sweets
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 5982
Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:05 pm      Reply with quote
Lacy - I read his blog defending himself. I guess you found it extraordinarily intellectual Rolling Eyes - Ho hum.
He said/she said. He's being paid. It is what it is.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event.
Lacy53
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 782
Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:28 pm      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:
Lacy - I read his blog defending himself. I guess you found it extraordinarily intellectual Rolling Eyes - Ho hum.
He said/she said. He's being paid. It is what it is.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

You work at a university and get paid. Your university has business contracts with pharmaceutical companies (look it up); your institution accepts free samples and receives discounted prices for bulk items purchased from companies in the pharmaceutical industry (research that too). By your own logic you too are a pharma shill, regardless of what your personal beliefs are or how well you do your job. Using your own logic, you are open to ridicule, insults and libellous accusations since you place money ahead of your professional responsibilities and personal integrity. You have an undisclosed conflict of interest, because there is no disclaimer in your signature line referring to this issue. No one should accept anything you say because you too are a self-defined pharma shill and are hiding something material ... right?

_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin
Keliu
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 6560
Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:15 am      Reply with quote
Yubs wrote:
Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! You need to check your inbox again, Keliu! I have NEVER PM'd you about panos or anything. EVER. In the whole 7 or whatever years I've been around. So please, PLEASE please,don't try to make it seem like I am whispering secrets in your ear via PM and then behaving another way on the board.

I strongly urge you to clear that up, please.

I *did* give you a one line heads up about ignoring panos in some thread when he first came around and seemed to be behaving strangely. I had observed him from another forum and he was not as confrontational or..."enlightened" Laughing about his advice before this recent spate of "light & air fructarianism". At the point I gave you the [public] heads up, I was unsure if he was trolling or not. It was just a friendly piece of advice.

At any rate, I stand by my right not to dismiss people entirely because I don't like some or even most of what they say, or (just for example) even because I think they may be a little crazy or whatever. Perhaps you are that dismissive of people, but I'm not.

As far as your saying that many of those alternative treatments theories have been proved to be bunkum...to your satisfaction, with the current state of science. Not to mine. Or to a lot of other people here.



I do apologise, I thought you PMed me - but I was incorrect. It was this message that I was referring to:

Quote:
Keliu, our friend panoslydios has been flitting all over the internet today. Please ignore. It will likely be worse than trying to argue with me. But not in the fun way.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6508427&highlight=#6508427


If this isn't an example of dismissing people, I don't know what is.

In regard to alternative therapies. The Australian Medical Association today called for parents choosing alternative treatments over traditional medicine for their children to be reported to the authorities. This is due to numerous cases of children being misdiagnosed and children with meningococcal not receiving the correct treatment. Also one child had their neck broken by a chiropractor.

Australian authorities also recently banned a speaker from the USA anti-vaccination group from speaking at an event here. Australia is trying very hard to prevent the backlash against vaccination which is causing outbreaks of diseases thought to be previously under control.

It is not my "opinion" that some alternative therapies are bunkum - they are classified as ineffective because there is absolutely no scientific clinical evidence that they work.

I would really appreciate it if, when you enter into the debate, you could provide some pertinent information on the topic at hand - and not simply criticise the personalities involved in the discussion. I'm not sure whether you realise that you do this, but it has happened on several occasions. You enter into the fray just to put down some of the posters without actually contributing to the discussion, then they retaliate and an argument starts. Then you complain about the "tone" of the discussion, psycho-analyse people's personalities, chide them for arguing and make out that you're the arbiter of peace!

_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!!
aprile
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1149
Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:25 am      Reply with quote
Lacy53 wrote:
sister sweets wrote:
Lacy - I read his blog defending himself. I guess you found it extraordinarily intellectual Rolling Eyes - Ho hum.
He said/she said. He's being paid. It is what it is.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

You work at a university and get paid. Your university has business contracts with pharmaceutical companies (look it up); your institution accepts free samples and receives discounted prices for bulk items purchased from companies in the pharmaceutical industry (research that too). By your own logic you too are a pharma shill, regardless of what your personal beliefs are or how well you do your job. Using your own logic, you are open to ridicule, insults and libellous accusations since you place money ahead of your professional responsibilities and personal integrity. You have an undisclosed conflict of interest, because there is no disclaimer in your signature line referring to this issue. No one should accept anything you say because you too are a self-defined pharma shill and are hiding something material ... right?



Wouldn't it be so nice if you could wrap it up and tie it with a bow as you seem to think Lacy? Yes Sis might teach at a university, but she's not working to discover the next cure for cancer being funded by Sanofi-Aventis. You seem to be the ignoring the white elephant in the room. Politicians who receive campaign contributions and other payoffs from powerful corporations, lobbyists in return for making choices in the interests of those parties, or in anticipation of favorable policy = bribery.

Quote:
Worth noting is that a patent relating to this was issued listing David Gorski as an inventor. In his blog bio, Gorski admits receiving money for the patent in 1994 from a drug company, but that was only during the provisional filing before the patent was issued. Whatever the compensation was, its timing does not suggest any licensing of the intellectual property rights.

Also, according to the Gorski lab, “Our second area of interest is the role of metabotropic glutamate receptors (mGluRs) in breast cancer,” which relates directly to the therapy linking the use of Riluzole to breast cancer treatment. However, the description concludes, “In addition, we have noted that mGluR1 is expressed on vascular endothelial cells and have preliminary evidence that its inhibition is also antiangiogenic, thus linking our laboratory’s two interests and suggesting a broader application for metabotropic glutamate receptor targeting in cancer therapy.” In other words, David Gorski’s entire research focus, including a patent still listed in his name for which he admits receiving drug company money, ties into finding new uses for a drug made by Sanofi-Aventis, while the university housing his lab is in partnership with the company.


WHY is this concept so difficult for you to understand? To follow that up, many formerly ethical doctors have crossed over to the other side favoring certain drugs over others for financial gain. This is no deep dark secret Lacy. For God's sake, kickbacks have become part of our modern day medical system.

Why would you defend Dr. Gorski so fiercely? We have no preconceived notions about him. But once those ties are made, they cannot be broken. There's a basic mistrust that exists in America today and trust me, it wasn't born out of nothing. ~ Aprile
Keliu
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 6560
Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:51 am      Reply with quote
I forgot to post the link for the video which refers to parents not seeking proper medical help for their children:

http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/doctors-to-dob-in-parents/xfav8ez?cpkey=2cbc70eb-7807-4d9f-83dd-cf32b210de5c%257c%257c%257c%257c

_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!!
Keliu
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 6560
Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:07 am      Reply with quote
Here is an article which makes mention of Tullio Simoncini's cancer "cure" with bicorbonate of soda.

Quote:
Last year we blogged about Kim Tinkham, who decided to treat her breast cancer with Robert O. Young’s alternative cancer treatment, which he proudly calls the “pH miracle” treatment.

On his website Young proclaimed that his pH miracle treatment had reversed Kim Tinkham’s cancer. Apparently Kim believed him, for she allowed Young to use her in several of his YouTube videos, in which she touted his treatment and stated that it had cured her of her breast cancer.

I just read on Orac’s Respectful Insolence that Kim Tinkham has died of breast cancer.

A few years ago Kim Tinkham was diagnosed with breast cancer. Inspired by Australian Rhonda Byrne’s book The Secret, she decided to treat her cancer with alternative therapy only.

For obvious reasons, most of the videos have since been removed. All that remains now are an abridged video testimonial on YouTube and an article on Young’s blog, dated 2 September 2009, in which he tells us that Kim Tinkham has reversed her breast cancer with his pH miracle diet:

Some years ago there was a somewhat similar case in the Netherlands, concerning Marjolein Bouwman, a young mother diagnosed with ovarian cancer who came into contact with Italian ex-doctor Tullio Simoncini.

Tullio Simoncini convinced her that infusions of sodium bicarbonate would be sufficient to cure her cancer and that consequently she would not need any of the conventional treatments that she was so afraid of.

She became an ardent advocate of this quackery and appeared in YouTube videos (since removed), tv-shows and magazines to tell the world of this wonderful new treatment, which claimed a success rate of 98% and hardly any side effects.

In March 2008 Tullio Simoncini told Marjolein that she was completely clear of cancer. However, as we later heard, in the course of 2008 Marjolein started to have health problems and in the autumn it turned out the primary tumour on her ovaries had never been gone at all and had extensively metastasized. Marjolein died 2 November 2008.

I wonder how many frightened cancer patients have been inspired by Kim Tinkham’s and Marjolein Bouwman’s videos and appearances in magazines and tv-shows to forgo conventional medicine and have had their prognosis irreversibly compromised and died because of it.

Quacks corrupt people’s health, but that’s not all they do. In cases like Kim Tinkham’s, Marjolein Bouwman’s and countless others, patients are also turned into accomplices, which corrupts not only their health but their souls as well.
http://anaximperator.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/alternative-medicine-double-corruption/


Further article:

Quote:
Marjolein Dies of Ovarian Cancer After Being Treated with Sodium Bicarbonate by Tullio Simoncini
https://anaximperator.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/young_mother_marjolein_dies/

_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!!
Keliu
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 6560
Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:22 am      Reply with quote
This is interesting:

Quote:
Dietary supplement industry says “no” to more information for consumers (again)

Posted by Jann Bellamy on October 3, 2013 (36 Comments)

Once again, the dietary supplement industry is fighting efforts to give consumers more information about the safety and effectiveness of dietary supplements.

Big Supp is very clever. It sells consumers on the phony idea that they need dietary supplements for good health. Even as the evidence continues to mount that consumers don’t need supplements and shouldn’t take them, the industry continues to convince the public otherwise. And in 2011 they raked in $30 billion.

.........And when proposed regulation threatens their profits, the dietary supplement industry and its surrogates enlist the very public it duped to join the battle. The industry convinces the public that someone is trying to take away their access to supplements they never needed in the first place. This threat is dressed up in terms designed to push all the buttons of a public already primed to be leery of “the government” – their “health freedom” may be taken away. Actually, freedom to choose among health care practices is most threatened by withholding readily-available information which would adequately inform health care decisions.

Sound familiar???

Read the entire article here:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/big-supp-resists-giving-consumers-safety-and-effectiveness-information/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=big-supp-resists-giving-consumers-safety-and-effectiveness-information

_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!!
Yubs
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 476
Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:59 am      Reply with quote
Keliu, I'm not going to waste my time adding "pertinent information" to a debate in a thread this long because nobody is going to pay attention to it. Others have proved that over and over and over again.

I frankly believe these discussions are as much about personality conflicts as anything, and I just get sick of the tone. If it was confined just to these threads then I wouldn't say a thing, but it spreads into threads all over the forum where the same personalities are present. Hence my ill-advised "entering into the fray". I don't consider myself an arbiter of anything (I am not paternalistically trying to protect people's welfare by drowning out information I think may be dangerous and I don't think they should see, for example), just trying to point out some unhealthy dynamics in the hope that maybe they will resolve themselves.

I'm a big girl, so I should know better. But hope springs eternal! Laughing

Further, I do not understand why you (and some others) can't just let people's opinion's differ from your own. I find it rather disturbing.

As far as my comment to you about panos a couple months ago...I wasn't dismissing him wholesale as you seem to do with people in these threads. It was a friendly gesture trying to save you some trouble by arguing with someone who I suspected may have been a troll, based on my previous experience with the user. Since you don't seem to appreciate the gesture, it probably won't happen again.

Jeez, I hope and pray I can stop my fingers from typing into this thread again. Pray with me, huh, Keliu? Razz
sister sweets
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 5982
Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:00 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Yubs wrote:
Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! You need to check your inbox again, Keliu! I have NEVER PM'd you about panos or anything. EVER. In the whole 7 or whatever years I've been around. So please, PLEASE please,don't try to make it seem like I am whispering secrets in your ear via PM and then behaving another way on the board.

I strongly urge you to clear that up, please.

I *did* give you a one line heads up about ignoring panos in some thread when he first came around and seemed to be behaving strangely. I had observed him from another forum and he was not as confrontational or..."enlightened" Laughing about his advice before this recent spate of "light & air fructarianism". At the point I gave you the [public] heads up, I was unsure if he was trolling or not. It was just a friendly piece of advice.

At any rate, I stand by my right not to dismiss people entirely because I don't like some or even most of what they say, or (just for example) even because I think they may be a little crazy or whatever. Perhaps you are that dismissive of people, but I'm not.

As far as your saying that many of those alternative treatments theories have been proved to be bunkum...to your satisfaction, with the current state of science. Not to mine. Or to a lot of other people here.



I do apologise, I thought you PMed me - but I was incorrect. It was this message that I was referring to:

Quote:
Keliu, our friend panoslydios has been flitting all over the internet today. Please ignore. It will likely be worse than trying to argue with me. But not in the fun way.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6508427&highlight=#6508427


If this isn't an example of dismissing people, I don't know what is.

In regard to alternative therapies. The Australian Medical Association today called for parents choosing alternative treatments over traditional medicine for their children to be reported to the authorities. This is due to numerous cases of children being misdiagnosed and children with meningococcal not receiving the correct treatment. Also one child had their neck broken by a chiropractor.

Australian authorities also recently banned a speaker from the USA anti-vaccination group from speaking at an event here. Australia is trying very hard to prevent the backlash against vaccination which is causing outbreaks of diseases thought to be previously under control.

It is not my "opinion" that some alternative therapies are bunkum - they are classified as ineffective because there is absolutely no scientific clinical evidence that they work.

I would really appreciate it if, when you enter into the debate, you could provide some pertinent information on the topic at hand - and not simply criticise the personalities involved in the discussion. I'm not sure whether you realise that you do this, but it has happened on several occasions. You enter into the fray just to put down some of the posters without actually contributing to the discussion, then they retaliate and an argument starts. Then you complain about the "tone" of the discussion, psycho-analyse people's personalities, chide them for arguing and make out that you're the arbiter of peace!


Yubs is an arbiter of common sense. Her posts hit things 'spot on'. I am continually amazed at the depth of her ability to cull through the nonsense and call it like it is. A breath of fresh air.

_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event.
Lacy53
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 25 Jun 2009
Posts: 782
Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:50 am      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:

Wouldn't it be so nice if you could wrap it up and tie it with a bow as you seem to think Lacy?
Quote:
Worth noting is that a patent relating to this was issued listing David Gorski as an inventor. In his blog bio, Gorski admits receiving money for the patent in 1994 from a drug company, but that was only during the provisional filing before the patent was issued. Whatever the compensation was, its timing does not suggest any licensing of the intellectual property rights.

Also, according to the Gorski lab, “Our second area of interest is the role of metabotropic glutamate receptors (mGluRs) in breast cancer,” which relates directly to the therapy linking the use of Riluzole to breast cancer treatment. However, the description concludes, “In addition, we have noted that mGluR1 is expressed on vascular endothelial cells and have preliminary evidence that its inhibition is also antiangiogenic, thus linking our laboratory’s two interests and suggesting a broader application for metabotropic glutamate receptor targeting in cancer therapy.” In other words, David Gorski’s entire research focus, including a patent still listed in his name for which he admits receiving drug company money, ties into finding new uses for a drug made by Sanofi-Aventis, while the university housing his lab is in partnership with the company.


WHY is this concept so difficult for you to understand? To follow that up, many formerly ethical doctors have crossed over to the other side favoring certain drugs over others for financial gain. This is no deep dark secret Lacy. For God's sake, kickbacks have become part of our modern day medical system.

Why would you defend Dr. Gorski so fiercely? We have no preconceived notions about him. But once those ties are made, they cannot be broken. There's a basic mistrust that exists in America today and trust me, it wasn't born out of nothing. ~ Aprile

Actually you do have preconceived notions about Dr. Gorski; go back and read what you said. Money and profiteering coming before the basic premise of patient care. Deception in the pharmaceutical world. A *spokesperson* for pharmaceutical industry. I fail to follow your logic when you say "many formerly ethical doctors have crossed over to the other side favoring certain drugs over others for financial gain". Using an already approved drug off-label is done all the time in research work. The pharmaceutical company who makes the drug probably isn't even aware it is happening; they weren't asked for funding, they didn't go to the researchers and ask them to conduct the study, and they certainly didn't line the pockets of the doctor (paying kickbacks). As far as the AofA report goes, accepting a small amount of money for a patent invention seems to be proof-positive of deserving the label shill; you parrot the same attitude by saying once those ties are made, they cannot be broken. If that statement is true, then Dr. Mercola is a shill as well, since:

After graduating from Lane Tech College Prep High School and from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, where he majored in biology and chemistry, he got a job compounding prescriptions in the pharmacy of a medical center. In 1985, Mercola launched a small private practice out of an 800-square-foot office in Schaumburg. At first, he was a traditional drug-prescribing doctor. He even worked as a paid speaker for a drug company, promoting estrogen replacement therapy.

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/February-2012/Dr-Joseph-Mercola-Visionary-or-Quack/index.php?cparticle=2&siarticle=1#artanc

On a more positive note, you have mentioned a few times on this thread that breast cancer and biopsies are over-done where you reside. It may surprise you to know Dr. Gorski agrees with you, and his latest research article states:

Abstract
Mammographic screening leads to frequent biopsies and concomitant overdiagnosis of breast cancer, particularly ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS). Some DCIS lesions rapidly progress to invasive carcinoma, whereas others remain indolent. Because we cannot yet predict which lesions will not progress, all DCIS is regarded as malignant, and many women are overtreated. Thus, there is a pressing need for a panel of molecular markers in addition to the current clinical and pathological factors to provide prognostic information. Genomic technologies such as microarrays have made major contributions to defining subtypes of breast cancer. Next-generation sequencing (NGS) modalities offer unprecedented depth of expression analysis through revealing transcriptional boundaries, mutations, rare transcripts and alternative splice variants. NGS approaches are just beginning to be applied to DCIS. Here, the authors review the applications and challenges of NGS in discovering novel potential therapeutic targets and candidate biomarkers in the premalignant progression of breast cancer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23477556

What he is trying to do is develop laboratory screening which identifies which lesions progress to invasive cancer and those that don't. That should avoid over-diagnosis and over-treatment of non-invasive lesions. (If you read his blogs you will find he is often critical of the medical and pharmaceutical industry, including the current protocols for breast cancer treatments). His complete list of published research here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Gorski%20DH%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=23477556

I defend Dr. Gorski because your logic is faulty, and you really don't have sufficient information to judge and label him. Before jumping on the AofA crazy-train, maybe you need to investigate the author of that diatribe Jake Crosby; find out who he is and examine his medical qualifications as well as his investigative journalism skills. If you embrace without question someone's printed word, you better be 100% sure their reputation and qualifications are impeccable and above reproach.

_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin
Keliu
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 6560
Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:08 pm      Reply with quote
Yubs wrote:
Keliu, I'm not going to waste my time adding "pertinent information" to a debate in a thread this long because nobody is going to pay attention to it.


I just have to add that I think the above statement is incredible. From the amount of PMs I get, I know many people are following the discussion here. How many other people (who may be searching for info on cancer) just happen upon it, none of us can possibly know.

Bring on all pertinent information I say!

_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!!
Yubs
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 30 Jun 2007
Posts: 476
Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:32 pm      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Yubs wrote:
Keliu, I'm not going to waste my time adding "pertinent information" to a debate in a thread this long because nobody is going to pay attention to it.


I just have to add that I think the above statement is incredible. From the amount of PMs I get, I know many people are following the discussion here. How many other people (who may be searching for info on cancer) just happen upon it, none of us can possibly know.

Bring on all pertinent information I say!


*sigh* Keliu, I skew primarily towards alternative viewpoints. I think you've figured that out. Enough information is already being posted on alternative viewpoints. I'm satisfied with the information and therefore don't feel the need to (again) "waste my time" rehashing what's already been said, especially since it's abundantly clear that the same old arguments will ensue. Maybe you have that much time to waste, but I do not. I have a job. I am a single homeowner with a remod in progress. I already spend too much time distracted with the forum as it is.

If you'll notice the number of posts I have in this thread, I've stayed out of most of it. So again, I'm satisfied with the alternative viewpoints being presented and don't feel compelled to add to them. Further, even though I don't necessarily agree with the views other than mine, I haven't felt compelled to try to counter them. I respect other's rights to express.

What I *am* dissatisfied with is the dismissive attitude towards the alternative viewpoints already being posted, and the way they seem to be getting "shouted down". I keep saying this, and you keep on not seeming to understand me.

Anyway, if I feel the need to materially add to the discussion on cancer, trust me, I will. I thought maybe the anecdote about my father would add a little something to the discussion by way of showing that chemo isn't necessarily the greatest way to go sometimes, but I can see it's been completely ignored.

Would you like to move on now, or continue this (circular and pointless) tangential discussion, to the dismay of all? Or perhaps continue in another venue like PM? I don't really care for that option and am ready to leave this, but if you're bound to continue arguing, that's probably best.

If not that, then let's move past it, please. Life really is too short, and I'd like to get back to the fun stuff like tinfoil hats. Laughing
System
Automatic Message
Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:00 am
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.

Reply to topic



Anthony Logistics Instant Fix Oil Control (85 g / 3 oz) DeVita Under Eye Repair Serum (15 ml / 0.5 oz) Pevonia Spa Clinica Pro Micro-Retinol Essential Moisturizer (50 ml / 1.7 floz)