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Cancer Prevention

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aprile
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Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:25 pm      Reply with quote
@Keliu - I too have received PMs from members who want their voices heard on this topic, but don't want to get caught up in the negative bantering. I don't think it's quite fair that atlernative views are seen as quackery either. The previous post you wrote about sodium bicarbonate treatment being bunkum is not quite spot on either. Recently, Dr. Marty Pagel of the Univeristy of Arizona Cancer Center was awarded a $2 million NIH grant to study the impact of baking soda on breast cancer. http://azcc.arizona.edu/node/4187 So obviously, there was some merit there. Again, your opinion that alternative treatments have no merit is just that ... *your opinion*. The case for iodine's role in treating estrogen dependent breast cancer has also been studied. See this link:
http://www.medsci.org/v05p0189.htm

Obviously, more research should be done, but I have to wonder if that will ever come, especially given the low return on investment. Considering when treating a woman for breast cancer could run from $50-$100,000. Also, the quality of life aspect should not be ignored. Many times a patient will spend years on two or three rounds of treament only to die a terrible death anyway or wish they were dead. My friend's mother who has been treated for the past few years with chemo and radiation has been told they have done all that they can for her. This is all so very sad to me. I still have small hope they will get her some medical marijuana to at least make her comfortable.

So when you or Lacy insinuate that others in the alternative/complementary medicine believers camp are *ignorant*, indeed it is a tremendous insult. ~Aprile
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Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:35 pm      Reply with quote
and then there's this:

Quote:

According to the Cancer Treatment Watch Web site, "[Dr. Simoncini] has been using unsubstantiated cancer treatments for 15 years… in 2003, his [Italian] license to practice medicine was withdrawn, and in 2006 he was convicted by an Italian judge for wrongful death and swindling… This has not stopped him from continuing to provide his controversial treatments, not only in Italy, but apparently also in foreign countries, such as the Netherlands."

............No peer-reviewed articles in medical journals were found supporting the theory that cancer is caused by a fungus infection or a yeast infection. Available peer-reviewed medical journals do not support claims that sodium bicarbonate works as a cancer treatment.
http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/complementaryandalternativemedicine/herbsvitaminsandminerals/sodium-bicarbonate

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Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 pm      Reply with quote
I for one would like to thank Keliu and Lacy for being the voices of sanity and reason on this thread. I offered Keliu my support in a PM and thought I should do it publicly as well. I find her to be respectful and polite, but unfortunately cannot say that about too many others on this thread.

I know I speak for others when I say how tired I am reading about how "Big Pharma" and "Government conspiracy's" are suppressing Alternative medicine, the cure for cancer, etc.

Please don't tell me that if I'm not from the States that I can't possibly understand. I am 48 years old and spent 26 of those years in California and Minnesota. I am married to a US citizen, my brother was born in California, and I have an older sister who has been in the States for almost 45 years.

Seeing so much disdain for doctors, modern medicine, and science in general just makes me sad. My parents are firmly in this camp. They mistrust the government, science, no such thing as global warming, doctors are in cahoots with big pharma, there is a cure for cancer that's being suppressed, and the list goes on. I love my parents dearly and for the life of me don't know where this kind of thinking comes from - maybe we spent to much time in the States, LOL. I'm thankful that neither of them is computer savvy or they'd be all over Dr. Mercola and his quackery!

Of course everyone is in charge of their own well-being. I am a vegetarian who doesn't smoke or drink, but for the last couple of years have been hospitalized numerous times with life threatening illnesses that no amount of vitamins or minerals would have made better.

Lastly, the only dismissive attitude that I see is from the self-appointed arbiter(s) who believe that only the Alternative side has a right to be heard.

BTW Panos, how is telling someone that they are rude and aggressive helping them? And you wonder why your post was deleted.

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sister sweets
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Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:11 pm      Reply with quote
Here is what I believe. If any women on this thread are diagnosed with breast cancer I can see them scrambling to read this thread or other research...seeking an alternative that might make their dearly beloved radiation and/or chemo less so important and maybe boost their chances.

I certainly don't expect anyone to admit this but if Keliu or Lacy are diagnosed I can assure you they would will look for other ways to put it in a different perspective. This comes from someone who knows hospice of cancer victims. I know that side. It is not pretty and I've seen people choose NOT to go that route and are 5-10 years on the other side without the pain and loss that chemo and radiation provides.

Do you people know the HARM that chemo and radiation does - Do You? The loss????

Anyone who thinks that is the voice of reason - oh well, good for you ... until you are the one diagnosed.

I don't doubt the voice of modern medicine but to toss aside the other side is ignorance. Balance - balance in prevention.

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Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:17 pm      Reply with quote
doodles wrote:
I for one would like to thank Keliu and Lacy for being the voices of sanity and reason on this thread. I offered Keliu my support in a PM and thought I should do it publicly as well. I find her to be respectful and polite, but unfortunately cannot say that about too many others on this thread.

I know I speak for others when I say how tired I am reading about how "Big Pharma" and "Government conspiracy's" are suppressing Alternative medicine, the cure for cancer, etc.

Please don't tell me that if I'm not from the States that I can't possibly understand. I am 48 years old and spent 26 of those years in California and Minnesota. I am married to a US citizen, my brother was born in California, and I have an older sister who has been in the States for almost 45 years.

Seeing so much disdain for doctors, modern medicine, and science in general just makes me sad. My parents are firmly in this camp. They mistrust the government, science, no such thing as global warming, doctors are in cahoots with big pharma, there is a cure for cancer that's being suppressed, and the list goes on. I love my parents dearly and for the life of me don't know where this kind of thinking comes from - maybe we spent to much time in the States, LOL. I'm thankful that neither of them is computer savvy or they'd be all over Dr. Mercola and his quackery!

Of course everyone is in charge of their own well-being. I am a vegetarian who doesn't smoke or drink, but for the last couple of years have been hospitalized numerous times with life threatening illnesses that no amount of vitamins or minerals would have made better.



doodles, The best statement is "Of course everyone is in charge of their own well-being." I am what you would call "on the front lines". In military terms they say ... "the farther you are from the front line, the less you know about what is going on. and usually the ones making the decisions are the farthest from the front line."
I have no disdain for modern medicine and perhaps you weren't referring to me. The difference I have is that alternative treatments are viable and valuable and put you in charge of your own well-being (AS YOU SAY)... Unfortunately these can be so dismissed because our western medical model doesn't allow or appreciate them. And so many on this thread don't want or understand them either. Throw the baby out with the bath water.
My children are vaccinated. I get my breasts checked. I believe in dental xrays. On and on.

I am a hospice volunteer, a head and neck specialist and I have many friends in the realm of cancer and cancer survivorship. A friend who was diagnosed five years ago - Head and neck - spoke with me... "what do I do, What would you do"... he asked. I recommended the radiation but don't pull the teeth and gave him a dental protocal. He still has his teeth - he forgo a second go at radiation and he's alive and considered cancer free. HIs choice was less invasive and less the "recommended" protocal. He has his natural teeth... He's alive and healthy. I have other friends who did the entire protocal and are alive and healthy..... and they have residual effects and those effects disturb them and will for the rest of their life. other friends who totally did not do any protocal and they are fine too without residual effects. They decided they would rather die than deal with the effects of the radical treatment.
I am not offering advice - I am saying noone knows the effect of treatment and the outcome is promised to noone. And I've seen many atrocities that I personally felt were unneccesary for the sake of modern medical protocal. I do not agree in the same vein as you do with Keliu and Lacy. But I am one opinion based on observation and discussion with people in the know.

I dated an oncology DR. - friend and BF for years. He had his doubts about all of it - that's partially how I believe what I do - I'm medical... He's medical.
What I have learned is most of medicine is a theory - and surgery and protocal can be considered an experiment ===until the next thing. Some bodies are well enough to endure and some arent' - whether it's full chemo & rad or to choose a lesser amount of chemo and radiation - or none at all. I am not convinced that radiation and chemo are the answer. Fortunately in America we can still choose and noone is put on the chopping block for our choice. Someone mentioned parents are not allowed to choose in Australia for their children... I love as an American - my right to choose.
I know some are happy with a government choosing healthcare for you. I am not. I am an intelligent person- I want to choose for myself and my children. If you are not comfortable with your own ability to choose than maybe you prefer a government to do it. To each their own. You may not like that I like to choose but I do. I'm okay if you want your government to tell you. Go Patrick Henry. This is partially what Yubs was saying.

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:30 am      Reply with quote
Cancer IS serious business. And because it is a business it always seems to be about money. (regardless if they are considered alternative or traditional approaches to its’ *treatments*)

Anyway, saw this recently re *Rock ‘n’ Roll and recovery - HIS choice* and thought I’d share –


Def Leppard Talks Cancer, Concert Film And New Music
By Sandy Cohen - AP
October 2, 3013

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Rocking with Def Leppard between bouts of chemotherapy proved healing for guitarist Vivian Campbell.

The 51-year-old musician relied on his bandmates and the thrill of performing to help him through a diagnosis of Hodgkins lymphoma (he started treatment in April). The band hit the road this summer for a monthlong tour that wrapped in July.

"We've actually been able to work through it," said Campbell. "We did the shows in Europe while I was doing chemo ... and mentally that was a big part of my recovery."

"I'm glad I had the opportunity to work through it instead of stay at home and feel sorry for myself," he added.

After more than 30 years together, Def Leppard isn't slowing down for cancer — or anything else.

Fans can get a front-row seat to see the band at local cineplexes on Wednesday and again next week in "Def Leppard Viva! Hysteria Concert." Filmed during a Las Vegas residency earlier this year, it shows the quintet doing something unprecedented: performing the 1987 mega-hit album, "Hysteria," live from start to finish….

(for more >
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/def-leppard-talks-cancer-concert-film-new-music
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:13 am      Reply with quote
Actually I think there is a war of opinions going on here when in essence all I see people looking for is whats factually correct. Many of the preported viewpoints here that are presented on alternative methods of control are not by any means conclusive and proven. What I do take major offence to is the idea that many of the medical establishment here are getting tarred with brushes about corruption and just out to make a profit and I think that’s not only untrue but nothing more than a fantasy. In my own personal circumstances, if it wasn’t for the medical profession I would have without any doubt have lost my hubby and the cancer he had would have developed without doubt in my mind so the fact that he was screened and checked is something I will be forever grateful for because it did save his life for sure.

Likewise I have children who are young adults, but I had no hesitancy with getting them immunized against possible life threatening diseases and I read many different viewpoints but for what I saw the arguments against it could not and were not proven to be correct. People can make stupid statements like I damaged their brain all they want, because I know I made the best choice to save their lives and protect them from future possible illness and diseases rather than allow them to catch something and then have to deal with the consequences afters. In essence, any caring parent wants the best for their children and will make a choice based on the information they have at hand, but whether they choose to immunize their children or not isn’t something that anyone else has the right to criticise them for – especially when it is just proganda and little if anything evidential showing that immunisation is bad. Name calling is out in my book – and so is saying things about whether someone has a job or not, whether they have time to waste or not,

I don’t know (or want to know) what everyone’s lifestyle and finances is like, but times are hard and if money isn’t in major flow or your income is quite low, then you do whatever you can with whatever you have and shouldn’t be made to feel guilty if you can’t afford organic food all the time, nor if you are protecting yourself and your family against future possible sickness.

Many of the things being said here by people who are passionate are not factually based but merely opinion based, and then from what I can see it turns personal and nasty and there’s no reason for that at all. This thread is about Cancer Prevention so why can’t we stick to what is proven to prevent cancer rather than who can talk loudest or make the most hurtful comments.

From my perspective Keliu and Lacy are both asking questions that many people may not but that doesn’t mean that their questions are unwanted, far from it sometimes in a sensible question being asked or proper proof or evidence there can be a learning and that’s we're all here for right? However telling people not to get scans which could prevent development of cancer in my mind is just plain crazy and I hope no one will take that viewpoint but if they do that's their choice but lets also be realistic - it can save lives and it did that for my hubby!
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:01 am      Reply with quote
sister sweets wrote:


Do you people know the HARM that chemo and radiation does - Do You? The loss????


But what about the gain? As I've already stated - I have five friends who have run the gauntlet of chemo, radiation and mastectomy - all are healthy and thriving. I also posted a list of a number of celebrities who have been through it - all and have survived.

Unfortunately, cancer is not a simple disease. There are no guarantees. A cure depends on so many variables. Length of the disease, age, health of the individual, type of cancer, on and on. It's not a simple black and white situation. There are no guarantees - that's what scientists are searching for - the defining factor which will make all the difference. Well it's not here yet, so we have to make do with what we've got. Of course, in the future, people will look back on this time and feel sorry for us all - that there wasn't a definitive cure. But that doesn't mean that today's methods should be ignored.

My own father died of pancreatic cancer. He was 92 and took not one prescribed medicine. He was offered chemo, but felt that it wasn't worth the effort. He was ready to go - my mother had died three months earlier and he really didn't want to go on without her. I was very happy with his decision as I thought the cure would have been worse than the disease - at his age.

I watched him go - and all I can say is that he received the best possible medical care that I could ever wish for. And it didn't cost my family one cent. Please don't tell me that the medical community are in it for the money. Please don't tell me that all doctors and researchers are corrupt. As I've stated previously, my sister is a analytical research chemist specialising in immunology. It broke her heart and all of those who worked in her department to have their funding revoked by the Bush administration. To suggest that all of her and her colleagues work is in some way related to financial gain is repugnant to me. Scientists are one of our professions that are rewarded very poorly.

Just as an afterthought - I'd like to hear from Deb as to how she dealt with her cancer.

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:50 am      Reply with quote
@Doodles - That's because they ARE currently living IN the United States and have probably seen family members, friends or acquaintances touched by disease and taken advantgage of by the system. They are seeing that
despite spending twice the amount per capita on health care, the United States ranks last in health and mortality analysis of 17 developed nations. Not to mention, that many sick elderly patients end up spending their life savings on healthcare costs. Although most Americans probably think about bankruptcy as coming from unpaid credit-card debt or mortgages,the root cause is medical bills. Given the average hospital stay in the United States costs $18,000 compared to $4-5,000 in other countries, has that really gotten us beter care? No! People often wait months to be seen by specialists. So I'd say Doodles - your parents are pretty savvy.

@TheresaMary - Speaking of price tags and not being able to afford organic foods for your family. I love this quote from an organic farmer - "If you think organic is expensive - have you priced cancer lately?" But, people are slowly waking up, especially when cancer touches them personally The other day in Target I overheard a teenager who was stocking the frozen bins talking to a dad whose little boy had just said to him, "Dad mom usually buys the organic milk." The dad relied, "Oh that's so much more money." The teen chimed in "Yeah my mom only buys organic now ever since my younger brother got cancer."

~ Aprile
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:54 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
It's not a simple black and white situation.


Exactly! This is why differing viewpoints should be respected...what works for someone may not work for another. Supporting health with a multi-pronged approach is best. I skew alternative but (for instance) if my life is in danger from an infection you better believe I'm going to take those antibiotics pronto. I'll worry about my gut flora later.

Ditto for a flu shot if it's a proven preventative for a currently existing, potentially deadly strain that's going around.

But a flu shot that's just someone's best guess as to the strain that *might* be around this year? Or something like the Gardisil vaccine to "prevent" cervical cancer? Not so much. Like annual rabies shots for pets here in the States, I think those are just money makers for the companies and distributors (doctors, drug stores, whatever).

I do get my pets vaccinated, BTW. I just don't believe that it needs to be annually. Some research has been done that shows 1 rabies shot confers lifetime immunity. I'm personally good with once every five years or so, to strike a balance between too much and not enough, especially since it's highly unlikely that my pets will ever come into contact with a rabid animal.

But decisions like those are my own, and I'm certainly not going to deride or sneer at anyone for believing or doing differently than me.

An approach to cancer or any mortal illness should be approached in a multi-faceted manner...as I stated earlier in this thread, my own father benefited from an older, less harsh chemo regimen before the powerful new drug that killed him. I'm still profoundly glad for the relief he got from those older, milder drugs, while at the same time being still upset that he was administered such a powerful drug when he was in an already compromised state.

For whatever it's worth, I don't think there's ever going to be a "defining factor" in the etiology of cancer, at least not until our research methods/tools become much more sophisticated than they are right now. There are so many things that can cause it, and a lot of it depends simply upon the body's ability to cope with these things. For example, viruses. HPV has been shown to cause cervical cancer, hence the Gardisil vaccine. But some people have HPV forever without developing cancer. Why? I think the factors are too individualized to be properly isolated. At least right now.

Incidentally, it's always worth remembering that 30 years ago, "alternative health" people like Hannah Kroger who thought viruses caused cancers were on the fringe and crazy. Now it's mainstream idea and big business. IMHO that's a pretty good reason to have an open mind to some alternative methods and thought. Doesn't mean all alternative thought correct...but there is a lot of wisdom and worth in alternative methods and they should not be dismissed out of hand.

Also, a prediction, if we all live long enough to see it accepted by the mainstream: parasites cause cancer. Parasites that the mainstream doesn't know about or understand right now. Just wait for it. And if you want to make fun of me for making that prediction, please do it privately, via PM.

I would be interested to hear Deb's story, too. But I wouldn't blame her if she's reticent to post it in this thread where it might become fodder for another kerfuffle over ideology.
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:58 am      Reply with quote
@Keliu - FWIW to you, oncologists advocate the use of sodium bicarbonate when administering anti-carcinogenic agents in chemotherapy. So it's not all bunkum as you like to refer to it. Also IV magnesium treatments are being used at Sloan Kettering, which s supposed to be one of the top cancer hopsitals in the world. Just putting that out there ~ Aprile
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:44 am      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
@Keliu - FWIW to you, oncologists advocate the use of sodium bicarbonate when administering anti-carcinogenic agents in chemotherapy. So it's not all bunkum as you like to refer to it. Also IV magnesium treatments are being used at Sloan Kettering, which s supposed to be one of the top cancer hopsitals in the world. Just putting that out there ~ Aprile
=

Correct - bicarbonate of soda is given to patients to counteract certain side effects of chemo treatment (forget which, too tired to look up - it's bedtime here) - but it has nothing to do with curing the cancer. So you are absolutely off base here.

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:56 am      Reply with quote
aprile wrote:
@Doodles - That's because they ARE currently living IN the United States and have probably seen family members, friends or acquaintances touched by disease and taken advantgage of by the system. They are seeing that
despite spending twice the amount per capita on health care, the United States ranks last in health and mortality analysis of 17 developed nations. Not to mention, that many sick elderly patients end up spending their life savings on healthcare costs.


Correct - That's because, unlike every other developed nation in the world, the USA has no national health care system. The poor are left without care.

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:15 am      Reply with quote
Aprile I’m sorry but you need to live in the real world here. Organic food is expensive and if any parent had sufficient money they would spend it but not everyone is as fortunate as you perhaps are and able to do that but ridiculing them is completely out of whack. Every parent wants the best for their kids (well most do) and sadly the cost of things nowadays does add up. I think its really unfair with the suggestion that eating organic food is going to prevent cancer when in all actuality there is no proof or evidence suggesting anything of the sort at all. Even the famous cancer therapies which have had cases of getting people into remission with juicing etc note that it doesn’t work for everyone and any single parent family reading your post above would undoubtedly feel bad if they couldn’t afford to provide their children with just organic food. Organic food can be (at least in the UK) 3 times more expensive than supermarkets own brands and money has to last people a lot longer. To try and make people feel guilty or label them as bad parents because they’re not able to buy organic food is just crazy, but whatsmoreso to say that them not doing so is going to cause cancer is just as stupid in my opinion and you should be ashamed for making such a remark because it is having a pop at people who are in less fortunate situations than yourself and completely out of order.

aprile wrote:
@TheresaMary - Speaking of price tags and not being able to afford organic foods for your family. I love this quote from an organic farmer - "If you think organic is expensive - have you priced cancer lately?" But, people are slowly waking up, especially when cancer touches them personally The other day in Target I overheard a teenager who was stocking the frozen bins talking to a dad whose little boy had just said to him, "Dad mom usually buys the organic milk." The dad relied, "Oh that's so much more money." The teen chimed in "Yeah my mom only buys organic now ever since my younger brother got cancer."

~ Aprile
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:43 am      Reply with quote
Keliu wrote:
Correct - That's because, unlike every other developed nation in the world, the USA has no national health care system. The poor are left without care.


This is patently false. Please research before repeating things like this. The free health care system we have here for "poor people" here is called Medicaid. If you're old it's called Medicare.

All "universal healthcare" does is force young people to pay tax to pay for other people's insurance. With universal healthcare you don't have the option to not take insurance if you think it's too big a bite out of your paycheck and you'd rather pay your rent or get a better car (for example). As an older person that stands to benefit from this "fantastic" new healthcare system in a few years I *still* don't think that's fair.

Further, universal healthcare is as much a political opportunity for the political class to excuse increasing taxes generally as it is about increasing the quality of healthcare. I do not think it's coincidence that our Congresses have given themselves and their staffers waivers so they can opt out of the "Affordable Care Act" that has just been foisted upon the U.S. ACA is based on other socialist type universal healthcare systems in other countries.

Further, EU countries and other developed countries with socialist/Marxist-system type liberal governance are currently groaning under the weight of the lovely universal healthcare systems they have. It's all roses now but wait a decade or two. I predict our generation (the Boomers, which are a global phenomenon not just U.S.) will bankrupt these socialist/Marxist-type systems and our poor grandchildren will have to come up with a whole new, more realistic economic model. Possibly one called the free market. Laughing

As far as organic food...I agree with TM. I think washed conventional is fine. I frequently buy conventional food if I just can't bring myself to the price point of some organic. I wish I could afford it all but just can't, and sometimes I feel bad because I can't.

One thing I will say, though, is that very seldom do I see anybody paying with an EBT (government food stamp) card buying any fresh food at all. I see a lot of chips, coke, cookies, frozen meals, stuff like that, which are just as expensive and sometimes more expensive than nutritious staples like fresh chicken, rice, beans, lettuce, tomatoes, etc. Before I got my degree I worked in a grocery store for a little while and it blew me away the junk that people on government assistance would get.

Point being, if you don't take care of yourself, no amount of "free" healthcare is going to save you. The people who are supposed to benefit the most from this fabulous new healthcare system likely won't, because of poor lifestyle choices. It's an established fact that economically disadvantaged people typically make worse lifestyle choices (smoking, drinking, crap food, etc.). You can go to the doctor every day of your life, but your diabetes or coronary artery disease or whatever will still kill you if you don't mind your diet.
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:34 am      Reply with quote
Yubs wrote:
Keliu wrote:
Correct - That's because, unlike every other developed nation in the world, the USA has no national health care system. The poor are left without care.


This is patently false. Please research before repeating things like this. The free health care system we have here for "poor people" here is called Medicaid. If you're old it's called Medicare.

All "universal healthcare" does is force young people to pay tax to pay for other people's insurance. With universal healthcare you don't have the option to not take insurance if you think it's too big a bite out of your paycheck and you'd rather pay your rent or get a better car (for example). As an older person that stands to benefit from this "fantastic" new healthcare system in a few years I *still* don't think that's fair.

Further, universal healthcare is as much a political opportunity for the political class to excuse increasing taxes generally as it is about increasing the quality of healthcare. I do not think it's coincidence that our Congresses have given themselves and their staffers waivers so they can opt out of the "Affordable Care Act" that has just been foisted upon the U.S. ACA is based on other socialist type universal healthcare systems in other countries.

Further, EU countries and other developed countries with socialist/Marxist-system type liberal governance are currently groaning under the weight of the lovely universal healthcare systems they have. It's all roses now but wait a decade or two. I predict our generation (the Boomers, which are a global phenomenon not just U.S.) will bankrupt these socialist/Marxist-type systems and our poor grandchildren will have to come up with a whole new, more realistic economic model. Possibly one called the free market. Laughing

As far as organic food...I agree with TM. I think washed conventional is fine. I frequently buy conventional food if I just can't bring myself to the price point of some organic. I wish I could afford it all but just can't, and sometimes I feel bad because I can't.

One thing I will say, though, is that very seldom do I see anybody paying with an EBT (government food stamp) card buying any fresh food at all. I see a lot of chips, coke, cookies, frozen meals, stuff like that, which are just as expensive and sometimes more expensive than nutritious staples like fresh chicken, rice, beans, lettuce, tomatoes, etc. Before I got my degree I worked in a grocery store for a little while and it blew me away the junk that people on government assistance would get.

Point being, if you don't take care of yourself, no amount of "free" healthcare is going to save you. The people who are supposed to benefit the most from this fabulous new healthcare system likely won't, because of poor lifestyle choices. It's an established fact that economically disadvantaged people typically make worse lifestyle choices (smoking, drinking, crap food, etc.). You can go to the doctor every day of your life, but your diabetes or coronary artery disease or whatever will still kill you if you don't mind your diet.



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Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:35 am      Reply with quote
I concur Yubs, but is Medicare really "free"? Isnt the M/C premium deducted from the recipient's Social Security wages, which s/he has paid into since s/he began earning wages or at least since SS-M/C came into effect?

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:47 am      Reply with quote
And on a more positive note to actually prevent breast cancer:
http://news.yahoo.com/the-breast-cancer-shot--cleveland-doctor-develops-a-vaccine-113000843.html

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:52 am      Reply with quote
Ok lets talk about the hpv vaccine! I had an abnormal pap smear and went for further testing I was found to have a cinn 1 ( i cant remember but the worst level of cells) with those tests and then had to go for colcoscospy ( sorry spelling was never my best subject) and it was extremely unpleasant! But it got rid of all those "alien cells) and I am now clear!

If I had known more about HPV/cancer relationship and had had the knowledge and also known about the vaccine and all its risks I would have taken it. Now I wasnt promiscuous , probably just unlucky! But for me would have been worth it( getting the injection) , that is why both my girls will be getting whatever we get offered here.

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:54 am      Reply with quote
fawnie wrote:
I concur Yubs, but is Medicare really "free"? Isnt the M/C premium deducted from the recipient's Social Security wages, which s/he has paid into since s/he began earning wages or at least since SS-M/C came into effect?


Yeah, I was just being a little fast-n-loose with the semantics.

It's worth noting that everything the opponents of Social Security predicted would happen (the program would balloon, more stuff like Medicare added to it, higher taxes rationalized as a result, etc.) *has* happened, in spades. My grandmother used to really piss off some of her friends who would whine about Social Security increases not being enough, etc. She was on a fixed income and had very little in the way of investments (she was much less well off than some of the whiners), but she always told them "We drew more out of Social Security in the first six months than we *ever* put into it. You need to stop complaining". They were of the generation that only worked for a few years before being eligible to draw on it. A couple people stopped talking to her because she told them that. Truth hurts sometimes, I guess.

Gram was an ornery, uppity, independent, awesomely honest old woman. She took me down a peg occasionally, as well. I still miss her ever day.
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:01 am      Reply with quote
Buzzwords for old age (please god shoot me dead if I ever utter them when I get there):

•fixed income
•Social Security
•Medicare
•Senior Citizen Center
•any combination of the above.


Instead I plan on using these:

•freedom from workplace BS
•independent choice
•local tavern
•spa
•permanent vacation

Smile

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:38 am      Reply with quote
Me too fawnie, I am going to wear purple, sing out of tune, dance to Free and Jimi Hendrix, put on platforms, and drink Dirty Martinis! Oh don't forget the Goth Makeup!

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:37 am      Reply with quote
Speaking of Goth make-up...Sylvia, have you guys seen this over in the UK?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vriKrRy0mvE
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Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:42 am      Reply with quote
Oh soo good!I havent seen it, nice one Bad Grin

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Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:26 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
Aprile I’m sorry but you need to live in the real world here. Organic food is expensive and if any parent had sufficient money they would spend it but not everyone is as fortunate as you perhaps are and able to do that but ridiculing them is completely out of whack. Every parent wants the best for their kids (well most do) and sadly the cost of things nowadays does add up. I think its really unfair with the suggestion that eating organic food is going to prevent cancer when in all actuality there is no proof or evidence suggesting anything of the sort at all. Even the famous cancer therapies which have had cases of getting people into remission with juicing etc note that it doesn’t work for everyone and any single parent family reading your post above would undoubtedly feel bad if they couldn’t afford to provide their children with just organic food. Organic food can be (at least in the UK) 3 times more expensive than supermarkets own brands and money has to last people a lot longer. To try and make people feel guilty or label them as bad parents because they’re not able to buy organic food is just crazy, but whatsmoreso to say that them not doing so is going to cause cancer is just as stupid in my opinion and you should be ashamed for making such a remark because it is having a pop at people who are in less fortunate situations than yourself and completely out of order.

aprile wrote:
@TheresaMary - Speaking of price tags and not being able to afford organic foods for your family. I love this quote from an organic farmer - "If you think organic is expensive - have you priced cancer lately?" But, people are slowly waking up, especially when cancer touches them personally The other day in Target I overheard a teenager who was stocking the frozen bins talking to a dad whose little boy had just said to him, "Dad mom usually buys the organic milk." The dad relied, "Oh that's so much more money." The teen chimed in "Yeah my mom only buys organic now ever since my younger brother got cancer."

~ Aprile


Actually TM - you are totally off the mark here. That was a comment made with the intent to magnify the importance of choosing foods wisely, particularly when someone is stricken with cancer. Also, don't twist my words - I have not ridiculed anyone. I have stated before that I do realize that cancer and other illnesses are caused by many other factors. BUT, you cannot minimize exposure to toxic chemicals in the form of pesticides. You cannot ignore chemicals found in cleaning products either(xeno-estrogens) which have been linked to an increase of estrogen in the body which is important when discussing breast cancer. GMOs which are experimental at best, have caused mammary cancers in lab animals. SERIOUSLY – people need to get educated and stop the insanity! Incidentally, I have found GMO produce with higher price tags than traditionally grown produce and people don’t even know what they’re buying. It’s about getting educated!!!

FWIW, I don't eat 100% organic myself, but pick and choose wisely the ones I feel are imperative, such as berries which are highly sprayed and extremely porous. Also, I cannot speak for the U.K., but in the U.S., many times certain organic produce items can cost less than traditionally grown produce. Now that chain stores such as Target are carrying organic produce, milk, eggs and frozen foods it’s easier and more affordable than ever before for more people. Even non-toxic cleaning supplies and laundry detergent can be found for less than regular toxic brands at Target.

Seriously there's no need to judge my financial status TM. For what it’s worth to ya, I work full time, do all my own housework, run my kid around, pay a ton of taxes, send my kid to Catholic school (our personal choice), my husband works two jobs to be able to afford this and still have a boatload of unpaid bills too, and guess what? Most of those unpaid bills are unpaid medical bills from improper coding for tests recommended by doctors, or being overbilled for a ten minute hospital visit for a pitching injury my son sustained, or bills just waiting to be paid, padded bills that need to be verified before paying them and there's only so much money in the monthly budget.

But to the point you made about my making the poor feel badly about not being able to afford better quality food for their children.. Yubs made a good point when she said that many people on Medicaid and food stamps purchase packaged food products (as I like to refer to them as) in lieu of real food. These packaged goods have virtually no nutritional value and can often times cost twice as much as REAL food. What I'm saying is that people need to get educated and make the proper choices within the confines of their budget. I worked in a supermarket in my twenties while paying for college and saw moms and dads who tried to purchas chips, soda and beer and all sorts of crap with their food stamps.

Also, since you don't live in the U.S., you have no idea about the true burden and “cost” of healthcare here. You also have no idea how much “cancer” costs all of us. So you see, my comment about the good farmer was taken completely out of context . We all need to take responsibility for our health and the health of our family, and not sit idly with our heads buried in the sand. ~ Aprile
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