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Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:09 pm  |
Hello everyone,
I am not sure if this is the correct board or the DIY board is, so I will post this on both. I had an appt set up to have juvederm injected into my NL folds next week. However, I have been giving it much thought and am now seriously reconsidering. First of all, I am only 38 now and there is no way I can afford the injections on an even semi-regular basis. I do not have a steady job at the moment, and it took me quite awhile just to save up for one treatment. I would imagine the line would bug me even more once the Juvederm wears off because I would see such an improvement while it was in. Also, I can risk the bruising now, because I can hide out for a bit if necessary, but that won't be the case once I find a job, so I couldn't take that risk on a continuous basis either. So my question is.....Is there ANYTHING I can do to lessen these line without surgery or fillers? I know I can't get rid of them, but they are deep for my age, and I'd be happy lessening them. I have tried every lotion known to man. I've also been doing Carol Maggio's face exercises for months with no results. Any advice would be great. Thanks! |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:55 am |
I agree with fawnie that doing a comprehensive face exercise program will make a difference. The program she suggests, CFF, is the same program I do and it worked for me too. You can see the improvement in my N/L lines from using CFF on the before/after pages of the website given in fawnie's post.
Now I do have to say that personally I do not believe spot training will fix N/L lines. What I learned from doing CFF is that it isn't just the muscles in that area that are to blame for the folds--which seems to be what everyone who wants to fix them thinks. But also those attached to them which may have become slack from lack of use/exercise and which originate elsewhere. You see, when I started CFF I had areas on my face I was unhappy with and that I wanted to fix pronto (Namely, my eyes and N/L lines) but it wasn't until stopped trying to do what I had learned elsewhere (ie to work harder in the areas that need fixing) and listened to Carolyn's advice to do the program exactly as she directs, that everything fell into place. Of course, because I was a nervous wreck, I stayed in contact with Carolyn, checking in with her regularly to see if I needed to change anything in my program/regimen and to confirm that all was going well. And with her assurance and guidance, everything went smoothly and I couldn't be happier with my results. Here's an article Carolyn wrote about getting rid of N/L lines: http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/how-to-get-rid-of-the-nasal/labial-fold-lines-laugh-lines-with-facial-exercises
I believe microcurrent gadgets can also make a huge difference. I have seen results of people who use them and they are quite impressive. One person who was kind enough to share her results on the forum is Yubs and you can see her pics at the link she shared in this thread: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=48937
Another poster, girltwocb who is an esthetician believes, like a lot of people on this forum, in using both face exercises and microcurrent gadgets. Here is what she shared in a thread discussing N/L lines: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6472634�
If you go to the DIY forum, there are many threads on microcurrent options available and I am sure you will find more success stories within those threads. |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:34 am |
| Collagen induction micro-needling has helped me a lot. Call it dermarolling, dermalstamping, Dermapen, skinpen.....whatever! |
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Esthetician working at a Med-spa. Love the Clarisonic! |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:50 am |
Agree with LL and Nonie!
Its really a multipronged attack: needling,facial exercise, nutrition, good sleep habits (sleep on your back!) and excellent products that will help the appearance of your skin totally. |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:51 am |
| When I look at reviews for Carol's facial fitness, they are worse than Carol Maggio's.... I am not doubting that they work for some, people, but I completely wasted my money on Carol Maggio's and am hesitant to do it again. I'm guessing these exercise aren't free on youtube? I am just so tired of wasting time and money on things that don't work! If Juvederm would have long lasting results, I would take the plunge, but again, this isn't something I want to do long term. |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:44 am |
Do you use an effective sunscreen?
That is # 1, followed by vitamin based topicals and many of us here have had success with needling. All can be researched thoroughly on the DIY board.
BFG - not affiliated with anything except my soul. |
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Not Affiliated with any products or gadgets, encourage other posters here to state their affiliations in their signature line |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:45 am |
Do you use an effective sunscreen?
That is # 1, followed by vitamin based topicals and many of us here have had success with needling. All can be researched thoroughly on the DIY board.
BFG - not affiliated with anything except my soul. |
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Not Affiliated with any products or gadgets, encourage other posters here to state their affiliations in their signature line |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:48 am |
I am just so tired of wasting time and money on things that don't work
You will be hard pressed to find reviews of vitamin based topicals (most of them) or needling programs where people have *not* had success.
They aren't hawked as widely, because they basically sell themselves.
BFG |
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Not Affiliated with any products or gadgets, encourage other posters here to state their affiliations in their signature line |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:50 am |
I am just so tired of wasting time and money on things that don't work
You will be hard pressed to find reviews of vitamin based topicals (most of them) or needling programs where people have *not* had success.
They aren't hawked as widely, because they basically sell themselves.
BFG |
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Not Affiliated with any products or gadgets, encourage other posters here to state their affiliations in their signature line |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:56 am |
| benibenir wrote: |
| When I look at reviews for Carol's facial fitness, they are worse than Carol Maggio's.... I am not doubting that they work for some, people, but I completely wasted my money on Carol Maggio's and am hesitant to do it again. I'm guessing these exercise aren't free on youtube? I am just so tired of wasting time and money on things that don't work! If Juvederm would have long lasting results, I would take the plunge, but again, this isn't something I want to do long term. |
May I ask what reviews you are looking at, because most of the reviews I have come across about CFF have been positive? I assume you put stock in what folks say on this forum or you wouldn't have asked for direction, so why not check out the CFF thread and see what folks say, ie if you don't trust the 43 pages of reviews on the CFF website.. What's more, have you looked at the before/after pages on her site?
IMO people can say whatever they want to to butter up a program or diss it, but when you see a bunch of photos of different people showing good results even though the lighting may not be perfect, that to me is a better testament than all the talk in the world. And then if every video that the author of the program produces shows her looking better than the last time as she ages, that to me speaks volumes. But to each her own.
Anyway, CFF isn't the only face exercise program out there. If you look in the DIY forum, there's a sticky with a whole section on face exercise discussions and some of the discussions are dedicated to N/L lines and different programs are recommended.
BTW, have you been in touch with Carole Maggio to let her know of your lack of results? It may be worth a try as she could perhaps tweak the program to suit you and could save you having to gamble on "the devil you do not know".
But if that doesn't work, then you still have a plethora of face exercise programs to choose from, as well as micro-needling and microcurrent and topicals as suggested above, even massage. I think reading previous threads on N/L lines will be your best bet in seeing all the different things that have worked for that others and that may work for you. |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:57 am |
| I am certain that face exercise do work for some issues, so I am definitely not knocking them. I am just wondering if they will work for mine. I don not have sagging skin or actual folds. It is just a deep wrinkle on the corners of my mouth that runs along my N\L fold line on both sides. I don't know if they can repair that. As far as needling, is that something you have to go to a professional for. I have seen some pics of people who have had it done, and WOW! does it ever look painful!! If anyone can recommend a lotion, that is great, but I was under the impression that no lotion could reach the layers of skin necessary. I must just have low levels of collagen in general, because I also have bad, indented stretch marks, definitely more than your average person. |
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:50 am |
| benibenir wrote: |
| I am certain that face exercise do work for some issues, so I am definitely not knocking them. I am just wondering if they will work for mine. I don not have sagging skin or actual folds. It is just a deep wrinkle on the corners of my mouth that runs along my N\L fold line on both sides. I don't know if they can repair that. |
Well, every program has people that it didn't work for so no one can tell you what program will work for you. You sorta have to do your homework and find out as much as you can about the various programs and ask the program owners questions--even ask for examples of results others have had--then follow your instincts. You may not get it right at the first try but for most of us, trial and error is how we came to find out what works.
| benibenir wrote: |
| As far as needling, is that something you have to go to a professional for. I have seen some pics of people who have had it done, and WOW! does it ever look painful!! |
The link I gave you to a sticky on face exercises (which is the second post of that sticky) has threads on dermarolling at the end and I believe they are talking about folks doing it at home for themselves. There are more discussions on needling in the DIY forum itself.
| benibenir wrote: |
| If anyone can recommend a lotion, that is great, but I was under the impression that no lotion could reach the layers of skin necessary. I must just have low levels of collagen in general, because I also have bad, indented stretch marks, definitely more than your average person. |
I don't know anything about anti-aging topical products but Barefootgirl can probably point you to the vitamin-based topicals she mentioned that have had positive reviews. |
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:43 am |
| Where would you start? Would you do a combo of Carolyn's Facial exercises, microcurrent, dermarolling, and topicals all at once, or is there something you guys have had the most success with that you would recommend starting with? If anyone has done dermarolling, what size roller would you use around the mouth? Do you have to roll to the point of where you are scabbed like some of the pics I've seen? Also, with the FE, I've seen Carolyn's and LouLou's mentioned most often. Which have you had the most success with? Thank you so much for all of the advice! |
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:52 am |
| benibenir wrote: |
| Where would you start? Would you do a combo of Carolyn's Facial exercises, microcurrent, dermarolling, and topicals all at once, or is there something you guys have had the most success with that you would recommend starting with? If anyone has done dermarolling, what size roller would you use around the mouth? Do you have to roll to the point of where you are scabbed like some of the pics I've seen? Also, with the FE, I've seen Carolyn's and LouLou's mentioned most often. Which have you had the most success with? Thank you so much for all of the advice! |
I would start slow, probably starting with facial exercise. If exercise is going to work for you, you should see some results in 3 to 4 weeks. If you DO begin to see results, then I would add micro-current because once again, that is going to give a bit quicker results. Dermarolling is great, but you are looking at longer term results there - anywhere from 3 to 12 months. |
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:50 am |
| Panda1 wrote: |
| benibenir wrote: |
| Where would you start? Would you do a combo of Carolyn's Facial exercises, microcurrent, dermarolling, and topicals all at once, or is there something you guys have had the most success with that you would recommend starting with? If anyone has done dermarolling, what size roller would you use around the mouth? Do you have to roll to the point of where you are scabbed like some of the pics I've seen? Also, with the FE, I've seen Carolyn's and LouLou's mentioned most often. Which have you had the most success with? Thank you so much for all of the advice! |
I would start slow, probably starting with facial exercise. If exercise is going to work for you, you should see some results in 3 to 4 weeks. If you DO begin to see results, then I would add micro-current because once again, that is going to give a bit quicker results. Dermarolling is great, but you are looking at longer term results there - anywhere from 3 to 12 months. |
I think Panda1's suggestion is good. What I do want to add is that while people like to set deadlines by which they expect to see results, I do not think that is a good idea because we are all different and sometimes things develop more slowly for some than others. Take me for instance: considering muscle memory, you would think that after 15 years of keeping my facial muscles toned that if CFF had been working when I started it, I should have seen results in a short time. Well, I did not. In fact, my changes were so gradual and minimal with passing time, that I would email Carolyn my photos so she could help me identify the changes, if any.
The top photos in the set below were of my parentheses taken on Jan 24, 2007 and the second row pics were taken on April 7, 2007.
Except for the frontal view, there seems to be little change in the parentheses. Maybe looking at the photos side by side as we are doing now shows that the folds in the second set of pics are more shallow. But if you consider that I saw myself in the mirror every day and how changes happening slowly to something you see daily tend to be "invisible" to your eyes, then you can understand how I might have thought nothing was happening.
The pics below were taken on August 10, 2007. You can see it took almost 8 months for my results to become clearly evident. And I still think 8 months was pretty fast, thanks to my previous years of training and muscle memory.
So my advice is, if the exercise isn't making your wrinkles worse, then stick with it. If it is not doing damage, then it has to be doing good.
Now about getting worse. I am one of those who doesn't believe things have always got to get worse before they get better. But let me clarify: Increased sag, more lines, looking more tired than befor and hence older than before IMO would fall under the "getting worse" that signals you need to stop whatever you're doing because it isn't working. There is however a change that occurs with face exercises that may seem like a bad thing but is actually a good thing. And that is when wrinkles open up due to improved muscle tone and growth under the skin that causes an outward push on the crease from underneath. This makes the wrinkles open up on the way to flattening out. The opened-up wrinkles look scary as they are bigger, but they are actually part of "getting better" not "getting worse". You can see this in Robert's forehead: www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/robert
These are things that the author of the program you choose to use can help you understand if something doesn't look right, so pick their brain as much as possible. But be attentive too so you don't get misled by those who only know the you they see now.
When people see my photos before CFF, they think that I make a mountain out of a molehill when I complain about how bad my N/L lines were before CFF. I have seen people be talked into doubting the truth they see with their own eyes by similar feedback...so you need to be true to yourself as you know yourself best. What those who don't see what the big deal was with me before CFF don't realize is that besides the look which was way different from the better look I had, there was also the "feel".
I mean, I went from not being aware of my cheeks unless I smiled (which I loved) to feeling their weight and feeling the overhang at the folds; and from having firm/toned cheeks that didn't move to soft frumpy ones that jiggled if I jumped. Now when this sort of change happens gradually as in normal aging, one gets used to it and so there is not a sudden realization that one has skin touching at a fold or that anything is hanging unless one looks in the mirror. In my case, I actually felt the changes. I also felt swollen...especially around my eyes when I smiled. Felt as if I had cried myself a river and had acquired puffed up eyes from that. So there are/were no compliments that could make me ignore the fact that a change from this lovely tone:
...to this softness:
...was BAD, BAD change. No amount of pointing out silver linings could make me ignore that^^ massive cloud. Aaaaand the fact that this trend was getting worse the more I continued with the thing that was causing this. So I stopped doing whatever was making me puff up, making me get lines I never had, and making me look tired--because these changing were the "getting worse" that is not OK.
And so I tell you to beware of well-meaning folks will always see the good in you, for you know yourself best and you have photos that can remind you what's normal for you. So while you won't look 16 again, you can get close to a look you miss having if you don't give up. Also do not look at others and try to get what they have. I remember a discussion where people lamenting about signs of aging suddenly changed their tune and were immediately OK with them because someone pointed out that beautiful Angelina Jolie happened to have those same flaws and is still admired the world over. Say wha' nah? WTH does Angelina Jolie have to do with ME or them for that matter? Just coz she may look good with those "flaws" doesn't change the fact that I don't like them on me or that not long ago I didn't have them and that I liked how I looked without them. Unless I am a clone of Angelina's, I can't assume that what looks good on her will look good on me. What looks good on me is unique to me. So I say, focus on yourself and aim to make the best of what you have. Think beautiful, feel beautiful, be beautiful.
benibenir you ask which program of those you list will get rid of N/L lines. Honestly if you read the threads I told you about in the DIY forum, you will find that in each of them there are people who swear to have seen positive results from each of them. I suppose you can PM people and ask them to show you photos (even partial) that they may not be comfortable posting...because to me pictures speak a thousand words; talk is cheap. In the microcurrent threads, some people offer to email photos too...so that can help you see what results you can expect from that regimen. Actually, come to think of it, I do know a couple of people who did face exercises initially then added the microcurrent later and have had very good results, which further supports Panda1's suggestion order of the program. IIRC, they didn't replace face exercises with microcurrent but rather use it to supplement their face exercises.
I have never done microcurrent or dermarolling so you probably should ask your question about which to do first in the threads discussing those topics as it may be seen by those who have first hand experience on whether a combo or switching from one thing to another worked best. |
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:00 pm |
But this is a more recent video:
https://growingbolder.com/media/gb-exclusives/webchats/gb-webchat-oleda-baker-592544.html#content_tabs
You can learn more about her from her website:www.oleda.com/about
So perhaps her face exercise program and regimen may work for you...
Oleda and I are friends and she is a lovely, energetic, amazing person.
Great, fun art work too. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:36 pm |
For some reason there is no way for me to quote a previous poster. Has this forum changed recently or is it a glitch with my computer?
sister sweets, I love Oleda and her products but could you do me a favor and ask her to offer an additional formula or change the current one of her physical sunblock? It is much too pink for people with yellow undertones, which is the majority of the population. I am spending a fortune on Clinique's City Block Sheer and need a cheaper substitute. If she could duplicate that color (and lighter texture) I would stock up!
Her lip pencils are too dark for current fashions as well. I had to return them.
I have her latest book and love it. Highly recommend.
As for an alternative to fillers, I had the radio frequency treatment (don't know the name) where they heat up the fat under the skin and the skin shrinks over a period of three months. The fat pads above my NL folds diminished quite a bit and as a result, I don't need filler. I used to get it every year. |
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Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:37 pm |
| any updates from benibenir??? |
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Looking great at 40 with the help of argan oil, AALS, glycolic acid and facial exercises |
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Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:34 am |
| I have tried Carolyn's Facial Fitness and microcurrent without any improvement. I actually think the parenthesis around my mouth have deepened. I am trying a suggestion of doing nothing but a simple cheek exercise for a few weeks every other day to build up control of that muscle, then I will take Carolyn's advice and cut back on the frequency of her exercises. I will let you know if I see a difference. |
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Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:36 am |
I am sorry to hear that. Let me know how It goes. Which simple cheek exercise are you doing?
Is it the one where you make an O with your mouth? |
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Looking great at 40 with the help of argan oil, AALS, glycolic acid and facial exercises |
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Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:06 pm |
| It was suggested that I just practice lifting one cheek muscle at a time to gain control of the muscles. |
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Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:35 am |
| I'm interested in this too since I have been battling nls for ages and seem to have difficulty with my cheek control. Keep us updated8 |
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