TENS, EMS, MENS, MC + DIY Devices
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:32 pm

sister sweets wrote:

Cookie - It was a discussion with an engineer. There was more involved to tell but I get the idea that it doesn't matter. The current track or goal of this thread doesn't seem to be to discuss the Pico toner.
Realistically the discussion of Chinese units or other units should be elsewhere. This thread is constantly being derailed by things that are not even close to the quality of the Pico toner.

Sis, maybe Havana can break out the other posts onto a different microcurrent thread if you ask her.

But I wouldn't worry about the quality of the Pico vs other options discussed....over time the product results will speak for themselves.

And at the end of the day, all that matters is our fellow EDS members see results for themselves, right? While I happen to have a Merbe and love it, I personally don't care if people buy the $49 ebay version, the TIA $149 private label version of the $49 unit, the Merbe, the Sqoom, or the Rex Kara because I am just here to support and learn with other members. And while the specs may differ slightly between units, I have seen nothing that proves a massive level of performance distinction, so why not support them all? And I think the Pico may be in that same boat at this point.

We all have different budgets, and hopefully we can support each other together in finding a variety of solutions to meet our individual skincare needs and goals. I wouldn't take any of this personally, because I am certain it is not meant that way.

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:15 pm

Keliu wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

Just chiming in to share something from a medical stanpoint in case it helps anyone.

I own a $5000. Medical grade TEN/EMS unit, complete with all the bells and whistles, and there is no way it will come anywhere near my face.

Can you elaborate why.

sister sweets wrote:

Kassy - According to recs I've read on this thread recently: you should be able to strap that "bad boy" unit of hubbys on your face and let us know what it does for you Razz

EEEK.

Won't be strapping that "bad boy" anywhere above the waist... Laughing

There are many forms of electrotherapeutic devices. TENS (transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation, IF (interferential), EMS (electrical muscle stimulation) Microcurrent and Galvanic. I’ll just address the TENS + EMS, to hopefully answer the question of why I choose NOT to use that type of device on my face.

TENS sends small electrical currents through all the soft tissue to the nerve endings, which targets and stimulates the sensory nerves. These pulses of current help to decrease the patients pain by blocking the pain receptor signals from reaching the brain. A treatment will also stimulate production of endorphins, which further helps with pain relief. This biphasic current provided by a TENS device, is simply put, 2 different pulses/intensities, that alternate over the course of the treatment. The operator will then select amperage + pulse width, and make any other adjustments necessary, based on individual needs of the patient, as well as the area of the injury/trauma.

EMS stimulates a muscles motor nerves at a very deep level which causes the muscle to contract. It can help patients increase range of motion to compromised or atrophied muscles, release muscle spasms + reduce tenderness by increasing the circulating blood to an area of injury. Same treatment modalities apply to treatments with EMS as I’ve mentioned for TENS. The operator must know what they are doing when choosing; intensities, voltage, pulse ranges, and any other adjustments that are necessary. And precise placement of pads or probes are of utmost importance for all of these devices!

Why I prefer to never take a chance and use this on my delicate (over 60) facial muscles, is because;

1.) EMS/TENS are designed to work on “nerve” fibers first and foremost
2.) Even at the very lowest intensity, frequency + amperage, I am of the opinion that it is still too strong for the face
3.) Even though I am more than familiar with the use of these devices both during my medical career and now personally for at home use, there are way too many variables (with #2), to take any irreversible chances with the delicate facial tissue/muscle structure
4.) Why would I even contemplate a *maybe*, when there are so many microcurrent devices available, that are designed for the face?
5.) True microcurrent for facial use works at the “cellular” level, and has nothing whatsoever to do with “nerve endings”.
6.) My TENS/EMS/IF/Galvanic device certainly gets a workout treating a multitude of injury/trauma/chronic muscle atrophy in my personal life, but it will never be used on anybody from the waist up.

And I didn’t even get into the all important subject of “signatures, pulse modes + Hz”…. Nah… for my old hyde I prefer to leave all that work to someone else…lol

Because a few have mentioned microcurrent devices "made in China", I can only tell you that I am beyond disappointed in my *professional* unit complete with gloves, face probes, body probes and ultrasound. Although the gloves are a decent quality, I thought I was being electrocuted when I tried them hooked into the machine at the very lowest intensity. The double pronged wands are the only attachment that *feels* right, but I am still leery that the frequency/intensity/modes can't be counted on.

The "Electrolast" is decent, and has nice treatment features/modes/intensities etc, but it is just so darned small, it's a PITA to use.

Hope that's of help a little.

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:28 pm

bethany wrote:

sister sweets wrote:

Cookie - It was a discussion with an engineer. There was more involved to tell but I get the idea that it doesn't matter. The current track or goal of this thread doesn't seem to be to discuss the Pico toner.
Realistically the discussion of Chinese units or other units should be elsewhere. This thread is constantly being derailed by things that are not even close to the quality of the Pico toner.

Sis, maybe Havana can break out the other posts onto a different microcurrent thread if you ask her.

But I wouldn't worry about the quality of the Pico vs other options discussed....over time the product results will speak for themselves.

And at the end of the day, all that matters is our fellow EDS members see results for themselves, right? While I happen to have a Merbe and love it, I personally don't care if people buy the $49 ebay version, the TIA $149 private label version of the $49 unit, the Merbe, the Sqoom, or the Rex Kara because I am just here to support and learn with other members. And while the specs may differ slightly between units, I have seen nothing that proves a massive level of performance distinction, so why not support them all? And I think the Pico may be in that same boat at this point.

We all have different budgets, and hopefully we can support each other together in finding a variety of solutions to meet our individual skincare needs and goals. I wouldn't take any of this personally, because I am certain it is not meant that way.

What's going on in this thread is not about supporting or not supporting each other as the case may be Razz

Clearly we all understand about different budgets. The topic of the thread is not "What microcurrent does your budget allow?"

I agree Bethany - havana should break this out to keep the continuity of what it was meant for.

In the past we (the old guard members) have always tried to stick to the threads topic - surely you remember those days! and this is not what is happening.

You said this: And at the end of the day, all that matters is our fellow EDS members see results for themselves, right?

Well Yes and No. Isn't that statement just a little too global? as in ..Why don't we just have one giant thread and we can all talk about whatever we want ... just so at the end of the day our fellow EDS members see results. That's really not the point of having threads.

The purpose for having individual threads is to discuss specifics.
Why bother with having topics if we can just glibly go off-topic.

FWIW I don't give a wit what microcurrent people want or buy and I dont even give a hoot about amperage or any of that. I am on here to learn whatever interests me and to share and I try to stick to the topic. I try to respect that.

Also FWIW - I am going to a huge anti-aging conference in Las Vegas in December and hope to learn lots - inclu. microcurrent in the anti-aging arena.

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:45 pm

As far as not using an EMS/Tens device "anywhere above the neck" because the face is 'so delicate', you do realize that people use these units on their backs all the time, right? In your back is your spinal cord, which is connected to your brain. That's right. Your brain. I would think that if these units were so harmful that you cannot put them anywhere near anything delicate, then the back would totally be out. (Remember, these units work with the nerves to contract the muscles. There are many nerves that are actually connected to the spinal cord.) Not using the unit on your face is simply a personal choice you have made; it has no bearing in the fact that it's not actually harmful to 'delicate tissues'.

As far as only being allowed to discuss the Pico Toner and nothing else at all on this thread, regardless of the fact that what we're talking about are devices to do the same, exact, job as the Pico Toner that "rule" may keep us from being able to 'derail your thread' but it is not going to help anyone who seriously wants to use such a unit but cannot afford the $600 price tag of the Pico Toner. It's not like we went from talking about the Pico Toner to talking about face cream. We're talking about things that directly relate to the Pico Toner. Remember that there are several people who posted on this thread that the Pico Toner either didn't work at all for them, or the results were short-lived. One of these very people is now posting about whether or not she should get ultherapy, since nothing else has worked (her words). Possibly another, similar unit might work much better for them.

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:02 pm

Angela - you are a new poster so you may not be aware of what derailing a thread is. I may not have understood at first either. It is going off in a tangent - something that takes it to a different place than what is specified on the topic.

The topic of this thread is called "Pico toner reviews" therefore it is intended for that purpose.
Your reviews on an alternative option should be elsewhere so they can help others with understanding and putting together your kind of unit.

Below are more generic threads about microcurrent - more appropriate for your type of discussion.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=49221

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=49371

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=47547

Or you could start your own thread.

HTH. Sis

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:20 pm

AngelaE8654 wrote:

As far as not using an EMS/Tens device "anywhere above the neck" because the face is 'so delicate', you do realize that people use these units on their backs all the time, right? In your back is your spinal cord, which is connected to your brain. That's right. Your brain. I would think that if these units were so harmful that you cannot put them anywhere near anything delicate, then the back would totally be out.

As you state: The spinal cord is connected to the brain. Smile

Yes Angela they are all part of the central nervous system but it's not so simplistic as that by any stretch. They are not dependent upon each other in the manner you suggest.
People can have damage to the spinal cord (quadrapalegics can be very sharp brain-wise) and the brain functions normally and vice versa. The outcome of the spinal cord does not tend to affect brain function as a rule and vice versa. And actually the point of all of this hasn't to do with brain and spinal cord.

What one puts on the back for muscle injury is not what one would put on the face for toning and facial rejuvination. Your back musculature is not comparative to facial musculature. And on and on. Confused

Certainly not worth giving my own Anatomy and Physiology lesson.

Hey I'm waiting for Kassy to use her husband's back unit on her face but apparently she doesn't think that's a good idea Laughing

Not that I blame her. Kassy has a medical background and she knows better.

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:39 pm

*shakes head as she heads to bed and says a silent prayer that Angela has better luck putting her gizmo together, than she did (mis)interpreting my entire post*

Laughing

Night All xox

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:40 pm

sister sweets wrote:

As you state: The spinal cord is connected to the brain. Smile

Yes Angela they are all part of the central nervous system but it's not so simplistic as that by any stretch. They are not dependent upon each other in the manner you suggest.
People can have damage to the spinal cord (quadrapalegics can be very sharp brain-wise) and the brain functions normally and vice versa. The outcome of the spinal cord does not tend to affect brain function as a rule and vice versa. And actually the point of all of this hasn't to do with brain and spinal cord.

What one puts on the back for muscle injury is not what one would put on the face for toning and facial rejuvination. Your back musculature is not comparative to facial musculature. And on and on. Confused

Certainly not worth giving my own Anatomy and Physiology lesson.

Hey I'm waiting for Kassy to use her husband's back unit on her face but apparently she doesn't think that's a good idea Laughing

Not that I blame her. Kassy has a medical background and she knows better.

The function of the brain is not what I was pointing out. Posters who say they would use an EMS/TENS unit anywhere below the neck but would never put it near their face because their facial muscles are too "delicate" (their words)

Quote:

Why I prefer to never take a chance and use this on my delicate (over 60) facial muscles, is because;

The brain is extremely delicate, wouldn't you say? If something happens to your brain, it will affect the rest of your entire life. Everything you do. Everything you are. Whether or not you can even function. If anything is "delicate", I would think it would be the brain. That's why we have a skull; to protect this delicate organ. Yet people use these machines on nerves that are connected to their spinal cords which are connected to their brains all the time. And it doesn't hurt the brain one iota.

You say:

Quote:

Your back musculature is not comparative to facial musculature.

I would like to know how the facial muscles do not compare to muscles in other portions of your body. Beyond size, how are they different, exactly?

Again, this is the same mindset as thinking the skin on the face is ultra delicate and can't be touched much or it will be ruined forever. Many people think that, too...but that is far from the truth.

free skin care · Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:47 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

*shakes head as she heads to bed and says a silent prayer that Angela has better luck putting her gizmo together, than she did (mis)interpreting my entire post*

Laughing

Night All xox

I think I'll follow Kassy's lead on this one. 'nuf said.

free skin care · Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:11 am

This is the blurb for the Rio Face Lift Microcurrent device:

Quote:

Rio 60 Second Face Lift utilizes proven salon technology adapted for convenient, safe and effective home use. Faradic facial toning has been practiced for over 40 years in beauty salons. Faradic facial toning uses EMS (Electrical Muscles Stimulation) to repeatedly contract and relax facial muscles to help tone, lift and tighten them. Faradic electrical muscle stimulation is gentle and relaxing and becaus it is a passive muscle exercise, it does not need any effort physical effort. The stimulation increases local circulation, helps to bring more oxygen to the skin cells and remove toxins accumulated in the treated area. Faradic facial toning with Rio Lift leaves the skin feeling refreshed, lifted and rejuvenated.
http://www.win-health.com/rio-face-lift-faradic-facial-toning.html

So this device is using an EMS Feradic current on facial muscles. I believe Feradic current has a pulsating action.

free skin care · Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:25 am

Keliu wrote:

This is the blurb for the Rio Face Lift Microcurrent device:

Quote:

Rio 60 Second Face Lift utilizes proven salon technology adapted for convenient, safe and effective home use. Faradic facial toning has been practiced for over 40 years in beauty salons. Faradic facial toning uses EMS (Electrical Muscles Stimulation) to repeatedly contract and relax facial muscles to help tone, lift and tighten them. Faradic electrical muscle stimulation is gentle and relaxing and becaus it is a passive muscle exercise, it does not need any effort physical effort. The stimulation increases local circulation, helps to bring more oxygen to the skin cells and remove toxins accumulated in the treated area. Faradic facial toning with Rio Lift leaves the skin feeling refreshed, lifted and rejuvenated.
http://www.win-health.com/rio-face-lift-faradic-facial-toning.html

So this device is using an EMS Feradic current on facial muscles. I believe Feradic current has a pulsating action.

That device has been used for over 40 years, meaning EMS is not harmful for the face. Thank you, Keliu.

free skin care · Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:40 am

Here's some more information on the Faradic Treatment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrotherapy_%28cosmetic%29#Faradic_treatment

and here's a salon who uses it and has some "before and after" photos. They only do 10 treatments, too...those results come rather quickly, I'd say:

http://www.sugaring-hair-removal.co.uk/non-surgical-facelifts/

Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:35 am

Keliu wrote:

This is the blurb for the Rio Face Lift Microcurrent device:

Quote:

Rio 60 Second Face Lift utilizes proven salon technology adapted for convenient, safe and effective home use. Faradic facial toning has been practiced for over 40 years in beauty salons. Faradic facial toning uses EMS (Electrical Muscles Stimulation) to repeatedly contract and relax facial muscles to help tone, lift and tighten them. Faradic electrical muscle stimulation is gentle and relaxing and becaus it is a passive muscle exercise, it does not need any effort physical effort. The stimulation increases local circulation, helps to bring more oxygen to the skin cells and remove toxins accumulated in the treated area. Faradic facial toning with Rio Lift leaves the skin feeling refreshed, lifted and rejuvenated.
http://www.win-health.com/rio-face-lift-faradic-facial-toning.html

So this device is using an EMS Feradic current on facial muscles. I believe Feradic current has a pulsating action.

Keliu, I'm trying to sort this thread out the best I can. Let me get this straight: Are you against devices that cause contractions on the face because you feel that they do harm to the tissue?

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:37 am

Cocoa_Crema wrote:

Keliu wrote:

This is the blurb for the Rio Face Lift Microcurrent device:

Quote:

Rio 60 Second Face Lift utilizes proven salon technology adapted for convenient, safe and effective home use. Faradic facial toning has been practiced for over 40 years in beauty salons. Faradic facial toning uses EMS (Electrical Muscles Stimulation) to repeatedly contract and relax facial muscles to help tone, lift and tighten them. Faradic electrical muscle stimulation is gentle and relaxing and becaus it is a passive muscle exercise, it does not need any effort physical effort. The stimulation increases local circulation, helps to bring more oxygen to the skin cells and remove toxins accumulated in the treated area. Faradic facial toning with Rio Lift leaves the skin feeling refreshed, lifted and rejuvenated.
http://www.win-health.com/rio-face-lift-faradic-facial-toning.html

So this device is using an EMS Feradic current on facial muscles. I believe Feradic current has a pulsating action.

Keliu, I'm trying to sort this thread out the best I can. Let me get this straight: Are you against devices that cause contractions on the face because you feel that they do harm to the tissue?

No, absolutely not - I've never said that. The discussion came up because some people are saying that EMS and TENS machines should not be used on the face. I'm pointing out that there are EMS and TENS devices that are manufactured especially for the face - for example, the RIO (which is EMS) and the Tuo Vista (which is a TENS device). However, I don't know whether these devices are configured differently than body devices. If you ask me, it's all pretty confusing!

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:39 am

Further to the above - I should really say that I'm yet to be convinced that microcurrent has any positive effects for facial rejuvenation. There's lots of evidence for the healing of muscle injuries, but for lifting of facial skin - nothing really definitive in the way of clinical studies.

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:09 am

Keliu wrote:

Further to the above - I should really say that I'm yet to be convinced that microcurrent has any positive effects for facial rejuvenation. There's lots of evidence for the healing of muscle injuries, but for lifting of facial skin - nothing really definitive in the way of clinical studies.

Microcurrent all it does is stimulating the lazy nervous system,that you have made it lazy from topicals and toxic habits.

First reason of sagging and wrinkles is dehydration aka dry skin.
Dry skin is a result of acid forming diet.
So if you do the equation ,you understand now.

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:40 am

panoslydios wrote:

Keliu wrote:

Further to the above - I should really say that I'm yet to be convinced that microcurrent has any positive effects for facial rejuvenation. There's lots of evidence for the healing of muscle injuries, but for lifting of facial skin - nothing really definitive in the way of clinical studies.

Microcurrent all it does is stimulating the lazy nervous system,that you have made it lazy from topicals and toxic habits.

First reason of sagging and wrinkles is dehydration aka dry skin.
Dry skin is a result of acid forming diet.
So if you do the equation ,you understand now.

Sagging and wrinkles are actually due to loss of collagen and elastin. Collagen and elastin both deplete with age - this is a biological fact. Regardless of how hydrated you are, your skin will still wrinkle and sag as you age because of the depletion of collagen and elastin.

From my standpoint, I don't believe that skin which has stretched through lack of elastin can be shrunk back to its original shape. Muscle tone might help - but nothing is going to replace lost elasticity.

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:18 am

panoslydios wrote:

Keliu wrote:

Further to the above - I should really say that I'm yet to be convinced that microcurrent has any positive effects for facial rejuvenation. There's lots of evidence for the healing of muscle injuries, but for lifting of facial skin - nothing really definitive in the way of clinical studies.

Microcurrent all it does is stimulating the lazy nervous system,that you have made it lazy from topicals and toxic habits.

First reason of sagging and wrinkles is dehydration aka dry skin.
Dry skin is a result of acid forming diet.
So if you do the equation ,you understand now.

Panos ~ I agree with you that dry skin could possibly be a result of an acid forming diet. Most people are not in an akaline state, hence the reason so many diseases exist. Cancer is just one example. Further, it's been proven that once the body is returned to a more alkaline state, the body can and will heal itself, so I follow your thinking on that. BUT, we are still being assaulted by environmental toxins, which for the most part, we have little to no control over. So even if we aren't slathering those creams on our skin, we are still bathing in chlorine (most public water systems utilize this), which in and of itself is extremely dehydrating the skin. The same thing holds true for chemical estrogens in the enviornment, which causes hormonal imbalances. They have even found fish that mutated and changed from male to female which proves just how much estrogen is in the environment. That is why many choose to try bioidentical hormones to bring the body back into balance. In a perfect world, these things would not be needed, but as you know our world is far from perfect.

Also, I would have to think you would have agree that the body reacts positively to energy. No? So why do you object so fiercely to microcurrent use? What we are doing is gently coaxing the muscles back to their original position. Microcurrent can also nudge the body to produce more collagen. This can also be achieved via facial massage. Also, recent study showed that migraines can be helped with electrical stimulation, which proves that the body craves this type of energy. I think this is worth noting and you might want to view this video. http://www.headnine.com/health/2013/10/14/video-migraine-study-says-nerve-stimulation-could-bring_s_42959892.html#.UmEuvZws3vY

Best, Aprile

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:46 pm

aprile wrote:

Panos ~ I agree with you that dry skin could possibly be a result of an acid forming diet. Most people are not in an akaline state, hence the reason so many diseases exist. Cancer is just one example. Further, it's been proven that once the body is returned to a more alkaline state, the body can and will heal itself, so I follow your thinking on that.

The "alkaline diet" is generally very healthy and this is a good thing. However, I would recommend against stating that cancer is caused by wrong eating and therefore can be "cured" by the diet. This is simplistic and untrue and can cause harm to millions of cancer survivors. Environmental toxins can contribute to cancer and disease of course but if cancer can be prevented and/or cured by the "alkaline diet" then we would, in effect, have "the cure" that has remained elusive for all this time.

The anti-inflammatory diet is a wonderful way to keep the body as healthy as possible. And with anti inflammatory eating, one would naturally get more "alkaline" food but not necessarily a vegan diet. The alkaline diet is extremely healthy, but it 'preventing' certain chronic diseases has not been proven and many experts, including those in medicine, believe that some animal proteins, such as wild Alaskan Salmon are necessary for optimum health. From WebMD:

Quote:

Researchers have speculated that an alkaline diet might slow bone loss and muscle waste, increase growth hormone, make certain chronic diseases less likely, and ease low back pain. However, that hasn't been proven.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/alkaline-diets-what-to-know

It's important when making these types of statements to qualify them with something that says this is your opinion.

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:54 pm

Quote:

However, I would recommend against stating that cancer is caused by wrong eating and therefore can be "cured" by the diet. This is simplistic and untrue and can cause harm to millions of cancer survivors. Environmental toxins can contribute to cancer and disease of course but if cancer can be prevented and/or cured by the "alkaline diet" then we would, in effect, have "the cure" that has remained elusive for all this time.

Oh no I wouldn't say cancer is *caused* by eating a wrong diet entirely. However, an acidic body will indeed manifest itself in every form of disease. It just depends on how long it will take, depending upon other factors, such as toxic overload, etc.. Certainly everyone knows toxins play a huge role in disease such as cancer; in many cases we can't avoid them. Btw, Angela, the *cure* will forever be elusive as long as big money treaments like chemo, radiation and surgery exist. Indeed, the body can heal itself given the *right* set of circumstances, including diet. In fact, a healthy alkaline diet should be considered part of the patient's repsonibliity in the healing process. Yes this is my opinion and the opinion of many *informed* physicians. ~ Aprile

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:04 pm

aprile wrote:

Oh no I wouldn't say cancer is *caused* by eating a wrong diet entirely. However, an acidic body will indeed manifest itself in every form of disease. It just depends on how long it will take, depending upon other factors, such as toxic overload, etc.. Certainly everyone knows toxins play a huge role in disease such as cancer; in many cases we can't avoid them. Btw, Angela, the *cure* will forever be elusive as long as big money treaments like chemo, radiation and surgery exist. Indeed, the body can heal itself given the *right* set of circumstances, including diet. In fact, a healthy alkaline diet should be considered part of the patient's repsonibliity in the healing process. Yes this is my opinion and the opinion of many *informed* physicians. ~ Aprile

I agree that proper diet is one of the healthiest things you can do. And the alkaline diet is extremely healthy; personally, I add wild Alaskan Salmon and that sort of thing to my own diet but I do stay away from white, refined foods and all the boxed and canned 'prepared' foods that have little nutritional value. So we generally agree about proper eating; it can ward off SO many health issues (and even some of the skin issues we discuss here on this site) that we tend to have to deal with nowadays. I don't think people realize how many issues they can keep away with proper eating.

I believe that facial exercise as well as some of the devices we've been using on our skin will always be seen by the medical community as "not really working" because they don't bring in the big money. Kind of like what you were talking about with cancer and the medical community. Very Happy

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:08 pm

Just a reminder that there is already a giant thread on the Lounge about cancer. Smile

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:09 pm

bethany wrote:

Just a reminder that there is already a giant thread on the Lounge about cancer. Smile

Thank you, Bethany. I have seen that thread but forgot to go back and finish reading it. Smile

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:24 pm

aprile wrote:

the *cure* will forever be elusive as long as big money treaments like chemo, radiation and surgery exist. Indeed, the body can heal itself given the *right* set of circumstances, including diet.

I'm going to remind you that treatments like chemo, radiation and surgery are NOT money makers in countries which have free health care systems - rather, they are a drain on the public purse. There is another world out there in which a cure for cancer is of prime importance. All of your thinking is based on what goes on in the US insurance based medical system - and it does not relate to the rest of the world. Believe it or not, there are countries which actually do want a cure for cancer.

I'd love you to walk into a hospital one day and visit all the patients there and tell them that they can simply heal themselves without medical intervention.

free skin care · Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:51 pm

Since Sis reminded us up above that we need to stay on topic within threads, I am going to please ask that any future replies regarding cancer go on the "Cancer Prevention" thread. I think one thread on that topic is probably enough since it has been so heated.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=49362

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