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The Derminator
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miracleskin29
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Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:00 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Everyone,

I jumped on the derminator bandwagon too! I've had it for a month but have been terrified to use it lol. I have had 2 medical rolls before w numbing cream , but still

So today I did it on my declotte .I numbed w lmx 5% for 45 min and was still gonna just do .25 but I wound up doing .5! Absolutely no pain .it was on medium and I wound up doing 8 minutes which was just a very wild guess. I should of used the timer but like I mentioned was just gonna so .25 to test. No pinpoint bleeding ,even tho I wanted it to. Put .5 tazorac gel and 20% vit c on after . I know so some say don't, but I feel my skin can handle a lot thank you everyone for sharing your experience !

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
miracleskin29
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Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:22 am      Reply with quote
Has anyone actually rolled their lips , not the lines above but directly on the lips

Btw I did my first neck roll and went up to .1 with no pinpoint bleeding and put tazorac and
Vitamin c after .

How thick to you put your numbing cream on ? I want to put it on thicker but I'm scared of lidocaine poisoning ,lol

Thanks for any input !

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
Needl
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Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:41 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Miracleskin

I don't use any numbing cream. It was painful with rollers and (less) with stamps, but with the derminator I find it quite bearable, even at 2.5mm in places.

I've never done my actual lips. Search Owndoc for advice on this.
neeona
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Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:27 pm      Reply with quote
Last night, for the first time I needled my face with the .50 setting. I noticed today in one area I have mild red lines. At first I was going slow and that is the area that has the lines. Is this normal?
miracleskin29
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Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:58 am      Reply with quote
Thank You Needl

I'm scared to do it without numbing cream though ! It does help to kno you did it

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
miracleskin29
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Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:22 am      Reply with quote
Hi Needle

In my last post I meant to Thank You for posting the article and video by des Fernandez . It was extremely helpful in determining the frequency of treatments !

I should if just edited mylast post but I didn't see an edit button

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
MaryClaire
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Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:17 am      Reply with quote
I'm needling weekly for six weeks and have completed 2.

My question is do you apply anything other than hyaluronic acid during the week?

And what day do you add it? Or does it depend it your face shows any signs of needling?

Thanks!
miracleskin29
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Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:07 am      Reply with quote
I've been applying retina and vit c. I think some form of vit c and A is helpful but the form and percentages vary because people's skin is different .

I've been reading the instructions on own doc and also some random you tube videos on des Fernandez and it has helped gain some insight as what to use .

What length are you using ? I tried .5 on my face after numbing and I could feel it more than 1 on neck and chest !

Good luck w everything !

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
MaryClaire
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Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:46 am      Reply with quote
I dermaroll with .1 on face and neck but on scars/wrinkles, I use 2.25.

I'm trying to use the latest Setterfield recommendations so I use HA for the first two days. It's hard to keep up with the latest and greatest Smile

Is it safe to assume you have no inflammation going on if you have no redness or wounding visible?

I think inflammation is still a big deal and when rolling every week I want to make sure I don't over inflame my skin.

I read where Setterfield uses linseed/flax seed oil or kiwi oil after derma rolling but I'm not sure exactly when he adds it in. So, my plan is to use kiwi oil on day 3 along with a few drops of vitamin A.

I ordered kiwi oil from Lotioncrafters today. It's supposed to have lots of vitamin C in it with quite a few other good nutrients.

If anyone has any suggestions, please chime in.
miracleskin29
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Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:41 pm      Reply with quote
Hi MaryClaire ,

I have been told by the person that did my professional micro needling sessions that even if there is no redness or wounding visible that there is still inflammation going on underneath .

I borrowed dr setterfield book for a week from a friend and I could of sworn I saw something to that affect in his book . They're are lots of people on this board that know more than me so I hope they chime in.

How do you handle 2.25? Any suggestions as to how much numbing cream one can apply to face without lidocaine poisoning . I'm way sensitive to pain and the derminator on fast seems more painful than on medium

I decided to use anteage after on face and continue w the vit c on neck and chest

Good luck and keep us posted !

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
MaryClaire
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:38 am      Reply with quote
Thanks Miracle,

I thought inflamation wasn't quite that easy to ascertain.

I only use the 2.25 on scars and with only a single needle and it really doesn't bother me at all.

I only apply a thin layer of numbing cream and then cover it with saran wrap in sections so that I can remove it in sections and work on that section while the rest of the area is still being numbed. I clean off the numbing cream and then use alcohol to remove whatever is left.

How expensive is the anteage? I would love to use the environ products but I can't spend that much money on them.

Dr Des Fernandes and Dr Setterfield have different thoughts on the frequency of needling.

Setterfield says that you also create more of the bad stuff when you roll frequently so now Iím torn.

Iím rethinking my plan of weekly needling.

Here is an interview with Dr Setterfield that he talks frequency (minute 40+ of interview) and precautions (minute 45+). I didn't understand some of the connections he made with using certain medications with adverse effects like cipro.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/niptuckcoach/2015/06/01/microneedling-talk-with-dermal-needling-guru-dr-lance-setterfield
MaryClaire
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:45 am      Reply with quote
The numbing cream must not be too bad for your skin because if I'm reading this study correctly, they micro-needled the skin before a procedure, then applied the numbing cream to get a better numbing effect.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26671202
miracleskin29
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:17 pm      Reply with quote
Hi MaryClaire,
Thank you for the links and tips on numbing !

I got the Anteage MD which is stronger but more expensive . 335$ at agewell solutions:(. I have never spent that much for skincare in my whole life but I just got fat inj and it's supposed to help the fat vasurslizw and not get reabsorebed.

Also infadolan from own doc is supposed to be great for after needling ! I think I'm gonna get it . Also anteage makes a microneedling solution but I feel it's way expensive at 100 dollars for 5 vials

Yeah, it's hard to determine frequency because even the experts have differing opinions.

Thanks again for your input !

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
MaryClaire
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:21 pm      Reply with quote
You're welcome, Miracle.

Fawnie has generously shared what is in Setterfields book and I copied the following about infladolan. I really copied everything she wrote about the book and then some. If you would like the whole read, I'll mail it to you.

Setterfield says that Infladolan is probably ok for the night of the long needles to seal the channels and prevent TEWL(Transepidermal Water Loss), but using it routinely is bad because the petroleum shuts off the skin's feedback mechanism for producing its own lipids which eventually makes skin drier.

Setterfield wants us to use something to prevent water loss after rolling (with long needles) primarily, so HA solution is what he is promoting because its naturally found in the skin and non-irritating. Its easy to mix up before rolling (allow several hours for it to fully rehydrate) and needs no preservative if used right away. The skin produces its own growth factors and cytokines galore with the punctures, so we only need to support the skin's barrier at this point he says.

I have some infadolan and like it but will probably just use it just the night of. My skin really drinks the HA.

One of my goals is to mix kiwi oil with oil-soluble vitamin A and C so there are no preservatives in my aftercare.
miracleskin29
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:30 pm      Reply with quote
MaryClaire ,

Oh wow thanks !!! Yes I will pm you my email address . Lmk know how you wind up doing the kiwi and A and C and I may have to copy you !

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
miracleskin29
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:28 pm      Reply with quote
Oh I forgot to ask,

What do you think of emu oil?

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42, starting facial exercise, vip total face machine, sue vit c , retina, had peels, botox, fat injection, very good skin texture but fine lines around eyes
MaryClaire
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:01 pm      Reply with quote
I have used it but not for dermarolling. It's supposed to be anti-inflammatory and it would cut down on the inflammatory healing response that you want right after dermarolling.

The only reason I bought the kiwi oil is that Setterfield mentioned that it was okay but I'm not sure how soon to use it. I wonder if kiwi seed oil is less anti inflammatory than other oils.

Maybe Setterfield only wants you to use it for over inflamed skin.

I know I loved emu oil when I did chemical peels.
bethbb
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Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:12 pm      Reply with quote
I've been following this forum for a few years and have learned so much from all of you, it's time to step out of the shadows!

I used owndocs .5 roller for about a year with good results (for a woman in her late 50's!) and decided to get the derminator. To get the hang of the machine, I did a .25 & .5 a week apart, using Immacolata's HA serum for glide. (shot glass of distilled water & 1/4 tsp HA). Both of those went fine. Last night I did a very aggressive .1 .... breezed through my forehead but when I moved to my cheeks, the motor/magnet started to make a different tapping sound and I stopped getting needle penetration. I ended up having to take out the needle cartridge & magnet because the HA serum had kind of gunked everything up. After I cleaned it out, (frantically before the numb master wore off) I ended up having to put in a new cartridge. It started to do the same thing again with the HA serum, so I had to switch to water and the rest went fine. Has anyone else had this problem?

It's been 24 hours and my face is still covered in red dots .... I hope this is normal?
MaryClaire
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Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:23 am      Reply with quote
Hi Beth!
I'm happy you made it out of the shadows. I haven't had any problems with the derminator except once when it told me I didn't have the magnet in. A little jiggling and it was working again.

Do you use a thick layer of HA? Maybe the HA worked its way up the needle thread? Maybe a thinner layer might do or cleaning the excess off when the HA start to accumulate.

Since Setterfield says he only uses saline spray, I don't use the HA until after I've finished needling. He says there is a chance needling with other substances causes granulomas.

I get the little red dots too and they clear right up. If you use the mask that Fawnie recommends, they go away really fast but I don't know if that cuts down on the inflammatory response. I didn't use it on my last session because I had time to heal on my own.

What frequency are you going to use? I would love to keep up on the weekly but would like to read the research Dr Des has first.

Welcome to the discussion!
Tonia
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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:29 am      Reply with quote
Hi! I use Emla to numb. I apply a very thick layer and have never had any problems. I have tried a thin layer before, but it doesn't work. It also doesn't work without Saran Wrap over it for an hour. I know some think dermarolling and especially the Derminator doesn't hurt, but I do think it hurts. I can stand it, but I'm skiddish and quick to finish. With numbing cream, I just needle away and do a much more thorough job.

I use plain old filtered water sprayed on for slip. That works well for me.

Maryclaire, what is the name of the mask that helps with the red dots? I am plagued by them for 4-5 days after a roll. Actually, it's more like a week, but after 4-5 days I can cover it with makeup. Anything to help with that would make this process much easier for me.

Thanks.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:31 am      Reply with quote
Thanks MaryClaire!

I did use a thick layer of HA but think I'll take your advice and use saline from now on. The machine seems to run smoother & more accurate when I switched to water.

I haven't come across Fawnies mask .... what's it called? It's day 2 and the red dots are spreading out, making my face look more like it's bruised. Hopefully it's OK to use sunscreen because I have to go out at some point today. I also have horses so I'm in the barn every single night. Last night I used a thin layer of infadolan as a barrier from the dust & dirt. After I took that off, I used Skinactives ELS serum to protect the barrier for the night.

There's so much info to take in! I wish owndoc's forum was open for new posts, instead of closing around the time the derminator came out. Personally, I think the derminator is a whole different animal than the manual roller, but I never went any higher than .5 manually. I'm thinking every 3 weeks at 1.0 & possibly going up to 1.5. I saw nice results manually with .5, so I want to keep that up 2x a week in between. Definite improvement in skin tone (x-sun worshiper!) and it's kept the beginning of jowls from getting any worse. I just got the Ageless program, so I'm hoping that & the derminator can help with some lifting. I'm trying to avoid resorting to fillers!
MaryClaire
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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:53 am      Reply with quote
This is Fawnie's link. I thought I ordered the same thing but my packaging looks different.
www.ebay.com/itm/Silk-Facial-Mask-Post-Microneedle-Roller-5-Pack-/121172338744?pt=US_Skin_Care&hash=item1c366f283
MaryClaire
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Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:57 am      Reply with quote
This is what mine looks like and I noticed it still for sale on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-100-Natural-H-A-Silk-Facial-Mask-Unisex-Anti-Wrinkles-Aging-from-France-/181531538955?hash=item2a441f760b:g:ZAAAAOSwRLZUG1xI
bethbb
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Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:08 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks MaryClaire! I've never heard of chlorophyll on the skin but after a quick search found it's excellent.
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Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:19 pm      Reply with quote
I'm such a procrastinator, I've had a derminator for close to a year & am about to use it for the first time.

I actually bought that 5 vial set of anteage micro needling stuff (or whatever it's called that was mentioned above). I bought it the same time as the derm so it's about a year old. I have no idea if it's still "good" but I'll probably use it anyway (but not on my first session-just using ha first time)

I just mixed up my ha powder & sat in the fridge to do its thing. I used regular tap water, hope that's ok.

My question is about using Ret-a & vit c for x number of days prior. What should we do this for?

I don't have infadollin to use after, and my skin stays congested anyways so I guess I probably shouldn't use it anyways. Guess I'll keep using the ha afterwards.
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