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The Derminator

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emmyb
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Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:43 pm      Reply with quote
Thanks for the tip, Imma! I have to admit that going to 0.75 mm was a spur of the moment decision. I applied HA and Vit c along with rose hip oil and the moo goo after my evening shower and my skin is back to normal. Moo Goo is a natural moisturiser based on oils like sweet almond, coconut, olive etc. It also contains squalene (olive derived), allantoin, hydrolysed milk protein, aloe vera and vitamin e. It's lovely and soothing and it's what I used on my stretch marks just for hydration outside of skin needling. It leaves my poor skin smooth and soft, so I thought it could have a place in my needling routine, especially as a moisturising cream helps the oils like rose hip and tamanu penetrate the skin. May order some emu oil to and try and see what works best.
emmyb
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Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:08 pm      Reply with quote
So my 0.1% tretinoin gel has arrived and I'm hoping to do a session on Friday night. Will post again with how I go.

I've patch tested on the gel inside my arm and if it looks good tomorrow I'm going to go ahead. I got the tretinoin gel from AllDayChemist and I like the quality of it so far.
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Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:40 am      Reply with quote
jasminerosey - I've been using it mostly on my stretch marks and not my face. Lately, I've noticed that my face has aged some. Sad I have sagging skin around my mouth area. Was fine summer but all of the sudden, sagging along with puffiness. So it's time to get serious about it and hoping this will help.

The main problem I have is that I bleed easily, petechiae sometimes just by washing my face with hot water (sigh). Haven't found the reason why, like health issues, or whatever. I am taking Vit C in a higher dose internally. So I am afraid to use this on my face but now that I see myself in the mirror, time to just ignore the petechiae. Maybe the Derminator will thicken my skin so I don't get these blood spots so easily. And tighten up my face. (Ah the joys of getting older...)

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emmyb
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:24 am      Reply with quote
Hi White Wolf,

I was just wondering if you use the single needle on your stretch marks with The Derminator? I just did my first session with the 2mm 9 needle and then single needling the individual worst scars the next day. Wow - red and warm and tender! I was thrilled to instantly get spot bleeding on fast with the single needle cartridge. I'm not sure I got even prick density though and I used a kind of overlapping circular or oval motion depending on the width of the scar - what technique do you use?
junerosemac
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 9:12 am      Reply with quote
I've had my derminator about 4 months now, and am seeing results with thickening skin. I still haven't really gone beyond 0.25 because I still bleed around the mouth. Every 5 weeks I do 0.5. The bleeding is not much different between the two. During the evening after 0.25 I will put retynl acetate on and since doing this the flaking and peeling has increased. I don't put anything much on after the 0.5 until I notice the pinpoint bleeding has lessened. This is my question, is the peeling caused by RA going to be good for my skin or not.
Generally though, all round I can see improvement. Some fine lines lessening, definitely thickening skin, all lines a little bit less defined. And this is only 4 months in. It gives me the determination to keep on.
One thing I have noticed is that the Derminator goes deeper than a dermaroller. 0.25 roller just tickles, but you know that the Derminator goes deeper. It's in another league Bad Grin
emmyb
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Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:49 pm      Reply with quote
Hi junerosemac,

Peeling after applying Tretinoin is a sign of irritation as you skin hasn't gotten used to it yet. Tretinoin or Ret A is amazing for the skin, but your skin has to adjust to it first, hence the peeling. I would buy one tube each of 0.025%, 0.05% and 0.1% (strongest) of generic Ret A and work your way through. You will get some redness and peeling but after a couple of weeks of regular use at night your skin will start to look better. You may not get any redness or peeling at all if you start at the lowest concentration and work your way up to build tolerance.

I got my 0.1% Ret A from AllDayChemist and it's about $4 a tube, no prescription required. I got the strongest as I am applying it to deep stretch marks - if you are going to use it on your face, start with 0.025% and 0.05% before trying 0.1% or you may get major redness and peeling. I am going to start using the Derminator on mild acne scarring on my face and I am going to order a tube of the 0.025% and 0.05% to use at first.

Hope this helps!
junerosemac
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Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:26 am      Reply with quote
Thanks Emmyb. I'll just take it that my skin will adjust in time. I don't mind the peeling/flaking anyway. But here in the UK we cannot get Tretinoin, and if we try to get it from overseas it is often confiscated at customs. So we have to get by with the milder form of Retinyl Palmitate or Acetate, which is nowhere near as strong as Tretinoin. Mind you, it must have some strength as it makes me flake. Thanks for your help
jasminerosey
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Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:42 am      Reply with quote
Some people are sensitive to acids no matter what form they are in. It is not necessarily a question of getting used to it. Please pay attention to your individual skin needs. How long are you waiting till the pinpoint bleeding stops after the .05 needling?

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Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:44 pm      Reply with quote
junerosemac wrote:
Thanks Emmyb. I'll just take it that my skin will adjust in time. I don't mind the peeling/flaking anyway. But here in the UK we cannot get Tretinoin, and if we try to get it from overseas it is often confiscated at customs. So we have to get by with the milder form of Retinyl Palmitate or Acetate, which is nowhere near as strong as Tretinoin. Mind you, it must have some strength as it makes me flake. Thanks for your help


That is such a bummer! I order from India and it takes a couple of weeks but customs doesn't bother it.

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Immacolata
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Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:47 pm      Reply with quote
Just finished the area around my mouth on 1.5. Bled like crazy but I kept at it, it was the most intensive treatment yet. Now my skin is red as hell with pinpricks but that's okay because I know that there will be lovely collagen forming soon!

I was going to single needle first, but the machine told me that my magnet was missing when I used the single needle. I don't know if it was just the cartridge but when I plugged in the 9 needle it worked fine.

Tomorrow I will do my cheeks and then Tuesday the forehead. I like to break up the sessions, that way only a part of my face is red at a time. Smile

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emmyb
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Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:06 pm      Reply with quote
Good point jasminerosey, but most folk who try retinoids/retinol/vitamin a derivatives do go through a red/flaking stage when they first start using it (or breakout-ridden/purging if using it for acne) as it breaks down the outer 'horny' layer of the skin to get the cells to turn over faster.

You are quite correct though - some people simply can't use retinoids.

junerosemac - should you ever be looking for an alternative, maybe look into Paula's Choice Clinical 1% Retinol treatment? Or Paula's Choice Retinol Repair serum (less than 1% retinol). It's not exactly budget friendly when buying from the UK, but it may be a viable alternative if what you are using now doesn't work out. The redness or flaking shouldn't last longer than a month.

You could also look to adding Vitamin B3 (niacinamide) to you moisturiser that you use afterwards in a 4-5% concentration. This may help heal/counteract the redness and flaking from the RA. You can get it cheaply from websites like Making Cosmetics.

How often are you using your current RA? It could also be a case of using it too often eg: try using it only three nights a week instead of every night.

Imma: I'm from Australia and was concerned customs would nab my 0.1% tretinoin, but I suppose they have bigger things to worry about!
emmyb
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Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:54 pm      Reply with quote
Progress re: my own 'derminating' ...

I think single needling in where I will see the most results. I'm still very much healing 1 1/2 days after my last single needling session for a month. The only pain I really experienced was using the 2mm single needle on fast on my hips. But it certainly wasn't so painful as to be a deterrent. The 0.1% tretinoin gel did not hurt to apply at all.

The Vit C serum though .... Oh my god. It stung like getting lemon juice in a cut. Ouch! I used the last of the bottle this morning and now my hands are a bit brown ... Oh well, I'm sure it will be worth it in the end.

I may have to get one of those magnified LED makeup mirrors to see some of the stretch marks better next time, though. I did miss a few the first time round as they were hard to see to single needle through the redness from the 9 needle cartridge.
whatisthis123
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Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:00 am      Reply with quote
I'm using single needling on its highest setting, 2.25mm on a scar on upper body. It's like nothing is happening, no redness, no blood points... what a waste of money.
junerosemac
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Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:38 am      Reply with quote
jasminerosey: the pinpoint bleeding stops almost straight away, once I wipe it, it's stopped. But I only use the RA after 0.25 as I am taking things gently for now. So I'm waiting for my skin to thicken before getting more intense.

emmyb: Thanks for the suggestions, I will look into them, both Paula's choice and Making Cosmetics. I do use Active Formulas Skin Care here in the UK, so I will check them too as that postage is better for me. I use RA about 3 times a week, usually after needling with 0.25 on fast. When I do the 0.5 I use Vit C, and HA.

My 0.5 is coming up soon, and I may just bite the bullet and do 0.75 for once and see what happens. When I first got the Derminator I used 0.75 and was OK, but after getting a strong reaction from Copper Peptides once after 0.75 I scaled right back, and only use CP on a day other than needling, then it's OK.
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Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:40 am      Reply with quote
whatisthis123 wrote:
I'm using single needling on its highest setting, 2.25mm on a scar on upper body. It's like nothing is happening, no redness, no blood points... what a waste of money.


That's very unusual. Is the scar very thick?

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whatisthis123
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Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:12 am      Reply with quote
Immacolata wrote:
whatisthis123 wrote:
I'm using single needling on its highest setting, 2.25mm on a scar on upper body. It's like nothing is happening, no redness, no blood points... what a waste of money.


That's very unusual. Is the scar very thick?


It's a bit raised yes. Also it's on my back. I need some 3mm needles but don't think they exist.
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Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:46 pm      Reply with quote
whatisthis123 wrote:
Immacolata wrote:
whatisthis123 wrote:
I'm using single needling on its highest setting, 2.25mm on a scar on upper body. It's like nothing is happening, no redness, no blood points... what a waste of money.


That's very unusual. Is the scar very thick?


It's a bit raised yes. Also it's on my back. I need some 3mm needles but don't think they exist.


Ah, I see. I don't think they exist either; I've never seen them in any case. One thing you could try is doing it manually with acupuncture needles - I've heard of people using those when they couldn't get the single needles. I believe they are a bit longer.

If your derminator isn't helping you and you don't want to use it on other areas, I am sure you could resell it. That way you could at least get some of your money back. But why not keep it? Is the scar the only issue you have?

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wrinklefreeforever
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Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:58 pm      Reply with quote
Help!!

I really need some help. I have been needling every month for at least 4 months and doing the in between with the shorter needles and I haven't seen any results whatsoever! I am getting so depressed and now I think my smokers lines (and no I never smoked) are even worse. I just want to cry!
junerosemac
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Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:51 am      Reply with quote
As far as I know from reading all these forums, is that 4 months is too early to tell. Havan't you noticed anything, like a thickening of the skin. I have lip lines, but I don't look at them for improvement yet, as I think it's too early. I promised myself I would derminate for a year and then re-assess. But now I've rethought that, and think I should re-assess at 18 months, considering my age. I'm sure if you keep at it, you'll get some results.
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Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:32 am      Reply with quote
I did not see improvement till the 11th month.

Since Nov 2013, I have been rolling every month (1 mm) and can tell easily that my skin is thicker and sun spots are fading and my skin is getting very firm, especially the apple cheek (I believe it is due to the collagen build-up).

Apart from the said improvement, another thing I like is that the skin tone is getting very even.

I loved sun bathing but did not apply sunscreen to any part of my face or body, though I put on
a pair of sunglasses and a hat.

After 20 yrs of sun bathing, the lower part of my face not covered by the sunglasses is relatively rough and dark.

Whenever I looked at the mirror, I could tell the difference of the skin tone. Now, I am really happy and pleased with the result.

I could not recall the source I read which said that it did take 6 months at least for the collagen to build up; sometimes, it was up to 12 months.
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Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:25 am      Reply with quote
wrinklefreeforever wrote:
Help!!

I really need some help. I have been needling every month for at least 4 months and doing the in between with the shorter needles and I haven't seen any results whatsoever! I am getting so depressed and now I think my smokers lines (and no I never smoked) are even worse. I just want to cry!


I think you should be patient. It took time for the lines to form, and they won't disappear in just a few weeks or months. But microneedling is clinically proven - the science behind it is sound. Be patient and stay the course - and I'll bet you'll see results! Smile

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Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:33 am      Reply with quote
whatisthis123 wrote:
Immacolata wrote:
whatisthis123 wrote:
I'm using single needling on its highest setting, 2.25mm on a scar on upper body. It's like nothing is happening, no redness, no blood points... what a waste of money.


That's very unusual. Is the scar very thick?


It's a bit raised yes. Also it's on my back. I need some 3mm needles but don't think they exist.


If you search for "micro needling pen 3.0MM" on ebay there are a few choices. Not for needles that would fit the Derminator, but other brands of automated pens with adjustable lengths of up to 3MM. I can't recommend any of them as I haven't tried them though...

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emmyb
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Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:28 pm      Reply with quote
I am itchy and peeling now - each new stage is so thrilling in a nerdy kind of way. At first I thought maybe the 0.1% tretinoin gel wasn't that effective as it didn't hurt to apply, even straight after needling.

Well - it works! After around three days of healing I started itching and peeling like crazy. Warm showers with a firm body puff are my best friend. I ordered an exfoliating glove online but it hasn't been delivered yet. I have backed off the Vit C serum and Ret A for a couple of days as some of my stretch marks were getting very red. So it's just Infadolan now until it calms down a little. In a couple of days, I will start using Ret A again at least three times a week (Own Doc manual says up to 5 days a week is safe).

I've also realised that I need to wear disposable gloves when applying the Vitamin C serum, or my hands turn orange (like fake tan) and smell pretty awful.
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Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:32 pm      Reply with quote
whatisthis123 wrote:
Immacolata wrote:
whatisthis123 wrote:
I'm using single needling on its highest setting, 2.25mm on a scar on upper body. It's like nothing is happening, no redness, no blood points... what a waste of money.


That's very unusual. Is the scar very thick?


It's a bit raised yes. Also it's on my back. I need some 3mm needles but don't think they exist.


Hmmm, if it's very, very thick (may explain why you see no blood spotting) it may be better to have the original scar excised (cut out) and then start needling any new scarring that forms after the area has healed sufficiently. Are you using the single needle cartridge? If not, try it on fast at 2.25mm - that will give you the best results for a scar. You can also try using silicon sheets that they sell on Own Doc if it's a keloid scar.

But others are quite right - it takes many months to see significant improvement.
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Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:07 pm      Reply with quote
I've been wanting to fade my acne scars for over 10 years now and I think I'm ready to bite the bullet and take a chance on the Derminator. Only problems is that I'm just overwhelmed by the amount of information on this forum (and other internet sources) that I have no idea what the correct procedure is as most information focuses on dermarollers rather than this electronic devices. On top of that there are so many creams, etc. and I am really lost here as to what will work for my situation. If anybody could share their regimen or wisdom, I'd certainly appreciate it. All I know at the moment is that I need to purchase a Derminator, the rest I need some help with. Thanks in advance!
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