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The Derminator

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Immacolata
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Thu May 12, 2016 10:09 am      Reply with quote
After taking a 2-month break (for no other reason than laziness) I just did my mouth on 1.5, using plain water for slip, which worked well. I bled like crazy! Tonight I'll do my forehead and neck, and tomorrow the cheeks. I do a better, more thorough job if I break it into 3 sessions.

I didn't do the single needle this time because I broke the last one that I had. I'll have to lay in a stock of them. I wish Sarah gave quantity discounts!

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Anne5899
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Wed May 18, 2016 1:22 pm      Reply with quote
Is anyone using the Derminator for general facial rejuvenation? I've watched the video on Owndoc but it looks to me like it's better for small areas. I've thought about using the dermaroller or dermapen but out of the three, Derminator sounds like it's the least painful. Any advice please?
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Mon May 30, 2016 12:52 am      Reply with quote
For those of you who roll for stretchmarks, what's your vitamin c and retin-a protocol?

I know this is what Sarah recommends on her website:

"Week 1:

Day 1 - dry brushing, vit. C application (as explained in our instructions)

Day 2 - apply Tretinoin (A-Ret)

Day 3 - dry brushing, vit. C application

Day 4 - apply Tretinoin

Day 5 - apply nothing. Give your skin a break

Day 6 - dry brushing, vit. C application

Day 7 - apply Tretinoin

(If the skin gets too irritated, reduce the frequency of applications)



Week 2:

-Do the same routine as in week 1 until the rolling day. Roll the stretch mark (the whole area) with a regular roller on the day it suits you the best. Roll them densely with a regular roller. Apply Infadolan immediately after. Continue applying Infadolan for at least five more days.

During the next four weeks, use the single needle or a dermastamp or a ONE LINER dermaroller (roll thoroughly and densely) on the individual stretch marks until they are all done. You can for example thoroughly single needle/roll every day five stretch marks (every day different ones) until they are all done.



Right after needling/one liner rolling, massage some Tretinoin (A-Ret) into the individual stretch marks. First do a small test patch to see how your skin reacts to it. Apply Infadolan on top of Tretinoin."


But where does the Vitamin C spray factor in here? And do we continue preparing the skin of the unrolled area with retin-a and vit c?
What's everyone's routine re external products?
jeang
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Mon May 30, 2016 2:51 am      Reply with quote
I bought a derminator because of this forum and it's one of the best investments I have made for my skin (right up there with Retin and Omnilux).

I've had my derminator for almost a year and this is now my routine:

Anestol Numbing Cream (I didn't use to use this but forehead is a bit sensitive and takes forever without it) from All Day Chemist

I apply this as a base: Timeless Skincare Hyaluronic Acid (used to use OwnDoc Copper Peptide but too $$$)

Follow up with: OwnDoc Copper Peptide Mask

When I can I get Omnilux on the same day as microneedling and then 3 days after and this drastically speeds up recovery. I used to get Omnilux once a month and now I go twice every 8 - 10 weeks (after microneedling).

I also change my needles after every session on my face. After I got more experience needling, I started using deeper needles and my face got more bloody. I contemplated not changing the needles, but considering micro-needling costs about $350 - $450 if done professionally a $9 needle cartridge is a small price to pay. At the start I would re-use needles for 2 sessions, but I noticed more outbreaks.

I hope this helps!
Penta
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Mon May 30, 2016 5:17 am      Reply with quote
Penta wrote:
For those of you who roll for stretchmarks, what's your vitamin c and retin-a protocol?

I know this is what Sarah recommends on her website:

"Week 1:

Day 1 - dry brushing, vit. C application (as explained in our instructions)

Day 2 - apply Tretinoin (A-Ret)

Day 3 - dry brushing, vit. C application

Day 4 - apply Tretinoin

Day 5 - apply nothing. Give your skin a break

Day 6 - dry brushing, vit. C application

Day 7 - apply Tretinoin

(If the skin gets too irritated, reduce the frequency of applications)



Week 2:

-Do the same routine as in week 1 until the rolling day. Roll the stretch mark (the whole area) with a regular roller on the day it suits you the best. Roll them densely with a regular roller. Apply Infadolan immediately after. Continue applying Infadolan for at least five more days.

During the next four weeks, use the single needle or a dermastamp or a ONE LINER dermaroller (roll thoroughly and densely) on the individual stretch marks until they are all done. You can for example thoroughly single needle/roll every day five stretch marks (every day different ones) until they are all done.



Right after needling/one liner rolling, massage some Tretinoin (A-Ret) into the individual stretch marks. First do a small test patch to see how your skin reacts to it. Apply Infadolan on top of Tretinoin."


But where does the Vitamin C spray factor in here? And do we continue preparing the skin of the unrolled area with retin-a and vit c?
What's everyone's routine re external products?


Also, from where do you guys get your retin-a? owndoc doesn't seem to sell any currently.
jeang
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Mon May 30, 2016 12:18 pm      Reply with quote
I get my retin from AllDayChemist and get a stronger % for stretch marks. It's about $3 - $4 a tube but $25 postage so I buy in bulk. I also recommend getting different strengths to try at the start. I used to use Cosmedix which is great but $$$ and this is about.25% and very slow releasing compared to ADC retin.

ADC don't accept PayPal which is annoying and you have to pay by bank transfer. I thought it was a little dodgy at the start but I have been ordering from them for about 5 years without any issues.

Penta wrote:
Penta wrote:
For those of you who roll for stretchmarks, what's your vitamin c and retin-a protocol?

I know this is what Sarah recommends on her website:

"Week 1:

Day 1 - dry brushing, vit. C application (as explained in our instructions)

Day 2 - apply Tretinoin (A-Ret)

Day 3 - dry brushing, vit. C application

Day 4 - apply Tretinoin

Day 5 - apply nothing. Give your skin a break

Day 6 - dry brushing, vit. C application

Day 7 - apply Tretinoin

(If the skin gets too irritated, reduce the frequency of applications)



Week 2:

-Do the same routine as in week 1 until the rolling day. Roll the stretch mark (the whole area) with a regular roller on the day it suits you the best. Roll them densely with a regular roller. Apply Infadolan immediately after. Continue applying Infadolan for at least five more days.

During the next four weeks, use the single needle or a dermastamp or a ONE LINER dermaroller (roll thoroughly and densely) on the individual stretch marks until they are all done. You can for example thoroughly single needle/roll every day five stretch marks (every day different ones) until they are all done.



Right after needling/one liner rolling, massage some Tretinoin (A-Ret) into the individual stretch marks. First do a small test patch to see how your skin reacts to it. Apply Infadolan on top of Tretinoin."


But where does the Vitamin C spray factor in here? And do we continue preparing the skin of the unrolled area with retin-a and vit c?
What's everyone's routine re external products?


Also, from where do you guys get your retin-a? owndoc doesn't seem to sell any currently.
knittingen
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Tue May 31, 2016 12:26 pm      Reply with quote
Hi, I know I'm new here. I was happy to lurk until I felt I should speak up about something (not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, apologies if so).
The Derminator needles are only .15mm. This may still work, but derma needling is not proven to be effective on anything but increasing skin product absorption at needle diameters less than .25mm.

Just thought I would point that out. I was going to buy one, but now I won't. No wonder it doesn't hurt much, it's barely doing anything!

Thanks.
EC413
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Tue May 31, 2016 3:12 pm      Reply with quote
knittingen wrote:
Hi, I know I'm new here. I was happy to lurk until I felt I should speak up about something (not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, apologies if so).
The Derminator needles are only .15mm. This may still work, but derma needling is not proven to be effective on anything but increasing skin product absorption at needle diameters less than .25mm.

Just thought I would point that out. I was going to buy one, but now I won't. No wonder it doesn't hurt much, it's barely doing anything!

Thanks.


I believe the Derminator goes to 2.5 mm, not .15. Just to correct you, it does go plenty deep into the skin! Someone correct me if I am wrong.
jeang
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Tue May 31, 2016 3:58 pm      Reply with quote
The derminator depth goes to 2.25mm

From Owndoc: The needling speed can be slow (3 Hz), medium (5 Hz) or fast (25 Hz). The needling depth is set with a push button and can be 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2 or 2.25 mm.

EC413 wrote:
knittingen wrote:
Hi, I know I'm new here. I was happy to lurk until I felt I should speak up about something (not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, apologies if so).
The Derminator needles are only .15mm. This may still work, but derma needling is not proven to be effective on anything but increasing skin product absorption at needle diameters less than .25mm.

Just thought I would point that out. I was going to buy one, but now I won't. No wonder it doesn't hurt much, it's barely doing anything!

Thanks.


I believe the Derminator goes to 2.5 mm, not .15. Just to correct you, it does go plenty deep into the skin! Someone correct me if I am wrong.
EC413
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Tue May 31, 2016 5:30 pm      Reply with quote
jeang wrote:
The derminator depth goes to 2.25mm

From Owndoc: The needling speed can be slow (3 Hz), medium (5 Hz) or fast (25 Hz). The needling depth is set with a push button and can be 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2 or 2.25 mm.

EC413 wrote:
knittingen wrote:
Hi, I know I'm new here. I was happy to lurk until I felt I should speak up about something (not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, apologies if so).
The Derminator needles are only .15mm. This may still work, but derma needling is not proven to be effective on anything but increasing skin product absorption at needle diameters less than .25mm.

Just thought I would point that out. I was going to buy one, but now I won't. No wonder it doesn't hurt much, it's barely doing anything!

Thanks.


I believe the Derminator goes to 2.5 mm, not .15. Just to correct you, it does go plenty deep into the skin! Someone correct me if I am wrong.


Thank you for correcting, just realized though she was talking about the needle diameter. I don't think she is correct however in saying the Derminator isn't doing anything, as many people have had great results using the Derminator for a variety of skin issues.
jeang
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Tue May 31, 2016 5:38 pm      Reply with quote
Yeah you're right .15 is the diameter but I don't think that is as relevant as the depth especially with how fast the derminator can work and without dragging the needle (OwnDoc have a video comparing the derminator to dermapen and you can see the tear and wider punctures from the dermapen).


My skin has gone from good to amazing (the kind that gets compliments all the time)from the derminator. It's been great at reducing acne scars and evening out texture.

EC413 wrote:
jeang wrote:
The derminator depth goes to 2.25mm

From Owndoc: The needling speed can be slow (3 Hz), medium (5 Hz) or fast (25 Hz). The needling depth is set with a push button and can be 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.25, 1.5, 1.75, 2 or 2.25 mm.

EC413 wrote:
knittingen wrote:
Hi, I know I'm new here. I was happy to lurk until I felt I should speak up about something (not sure if anyone else has pointed this out yet, apologies if so).
The Derminator needles are only .15mm. This may still work, but derma needling is not proven to be effective on anything but increasing skin product absorption at needle diameters less than .25mm.

Just thought I would point that out. I was going to buy one, but now I won't. No wonder it doesn't hurt much, it's barely doing anything!

Thanks.


I believe the Derminator goes to 2.5 mm, not .15. Just to correct you, it does go plenty deep into the skin! Someone correct me if I am wrong.


Thank you for correcting, just realized though she was talking about the needle diameter. I don't think she is correct however in saying the Derminator isn't doing anything, as many people have had great results using the Derminator for a variety of skin issues.
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Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:11 pm      Reply with quote
Hi Everyone, thank you for being here. It's so great to be able to 'talk' to people about this secret my local friends don't know Smile.

Here's an update on my experience:

I've been using my Derminator more frequently than I could ever use rollers, because it's a lot less painful.

After reading Des Fernandes' article 'The Evolution of Skin Needling' (Dr Des Fernandes May 14th, 2015), I decided I was going unnecessarily deep (2mm or 2.5mm) making me reluctant to do it frequently enough due to pain and downtime. I now do sessions of 1mm, 6x over 6 weeks or even more frequently. He states that "...scientific investigation has proved that the best way to induce changes by needling is to use topical vitamin A and repeat the needling within 7 days.

I believe that the reason for this is that one builds up the concentrations of TGF-beta-3 to levels unattainable by even the most intensive needling because each needling experience adds to the previous levels of TGF-beta-3. " and " I am currently researching needling every second or third day and the indications are that this regime gives the greatest tightening of skin that I have ever seen."

However, I can't really fit every 3rd day in with work, so hiding away 6 Saturdays or Sundays in a row is more realistic.

Dr Des, as far as I can see, works only with rollers, not single needles. However, many cosmetic tattooists have put impressive pictures up of 'dry tattoo' results (ie single needle microneedling), and I have had good results with single needling deep lines (eg removed perioral lines with single needle a couple of years ago).

I expect this to be an ongoing project: I'll keep single needling any visible lines and keep 9 needle stamping any skin that needs maintenance work because it's getting thinner or crinkly. Since I bought lots of rollers before the Derminator was available, I'll use up the rollers on my shins, which were thin and crinkly and where it's not that painful. In fact I tried Derminator on my shins and it was too slow and the machine felt very hot, so rollers in large, less painful areas still make sense.

My aim now is: instead of forcing myself to do deep and painful needling with 3 days downtime once or twice a year, do 1mm needling far more frequently.

Where I live it's winter, so it's a more ideal time to hide legs in trousers and hide the face away on weekends.
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Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:23 am      Reply with quote
Penta wrote:
For those of you who roll for stretchmarks, what's your vitamin c and retin-a protocol?

I know this is what Sarah recommends on her website:

"Week 1:

Day 1 - dry brushing, vit. C application (as explained in our instructions)

Day 2 - apply Tretinoin (A-Ret)

Day 3 - dry brushing, vit. C application

Day 4 - apply Tretinoin

Day 5 - apply nothing. Give your skin a break

Day 6 - dry brushing, vit. C application

Day 7 - apply Tretinoin

(If the skin gets too irritated, reduce the frequency of applications)



Week 2:

-Do the same routine as in week 1 until the rolling day. Roll the stretch mark (the whole area) with a regular roller on the day it suits you the best. Roll them densely with a regular roller. Apply Infadolan immediately after. Continue applying Infadolan for at least five more days.

During the next four weeks, use the single needle or a dermastamp or a ONE LINER dermaroller (roll thoroughly and densely) on the individual stretch marks until they are all done. You can for example thoroughly single needle/roll every day five stretch marks (every day different ones) until they are all done.



Right after needling/one liner rolling, massage some Tretinoin (A-Ret) into the individual stretch marks. First do a small test patch to see how your skin reacts to it. Apply Infadolan on top of Tretinoin."


But where does the Vitamin C spray factor in here? And do we continue preparing the skin of the unrolled area with retin-a and vit c?
What's everyone's routine re external products?


anyone? Sad
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Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:12 pm      Reply with quote
Penta wrote:
Penta wrote:


But where does the Vitamin C spray factor in here? And do we continue preparing the skin of the unrolled area with retin-a and vit c?
What's everyone's routine re external products?


anyone? Sad


Penta, what do you mean by "where does the Vitamin C spray factor in here"?

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Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:09 pm      Reply with quote
Is anyone using the merbe/sqoom/fyola alongside The Derminator?

I'm wondering if it would be beneficial using it after the cosmetic roll for product penetration or is that overkill? Confused

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Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:11 pm      Reply with quote
Becst*r wrote:
Is anyone using the merbe/sqoom/fyola alongside The Derminator?

I'm wondering if it would be beneficial using it after the cosmetic roll for product penetration or is that overkill? Confused


I use Fyola (same as Merbe/Sqoom) but not on the same day as Derminator .75mm. Probably for a cosmetic roll, it would be beneficial. I use red LED instead to calm inflammation after using the Derminator.

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Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:46 pm      Reply with quote
I am using Merbe, Lightstim after 1.0 mm Derminator.
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Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:42 am      Reply with quote
RussianSunshine wrote:
Penta wrote:
Penta wrote:


But where does the Vitamin C spray factor in here? And do we continue preparing the skin of the unrolled area with retin-a and vit c?
What's everyone's routine re external products?


anyone? Sad


Penta, what do you mean by "where does the Vitamin C spray factor in here"?


Oops, yes, that's not very clear. Sorry! I think I just meant how often do we keep using vitamin c spray and retin-a after the roll?

I suppose I would like to see a protocol that accounts for those things.

Week 1 in Sarah's description makes sense to me because all the steps are laid out quite clearly. But Week 2 becomes murky because the Vitamin C spray has suddenly disappeared from the routine and it is not clear how often I am supposed to use the Vitamin A now. Also, do we keep dry brushing?

I would just really really appreciate if someone could share a more detailed account of their routine for stretchmarks.
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Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:27 am      Reply with quote
@jeang Do you mind telling me more about your acne scar healing?

ive been doing the derma needling on my scars this winter with 7 day intervals for almost 2 months using only vitamin C and HA a few days after.. I didnt wash my face or anything kinky like that before using the derminator.. I didnt clean it afterwords either.. Just left the blood to settle on the face.. And went to sleep a few hours after, no problem.. I bled more, when I just used plain water for the needle to glide in, compared to the HA which made it glade easier, and i didnt bleed as much after..

My skin does look better where I have been using the derminator, but I also feel better, and eating 50-70 grams of raw spinach a day, which makes my skin a lot more healthy looking.. But some days, the skin goes on reverse and it looks like the scars havent improved that much.. maybe im not going deep enough I dont know.. I went 1,5mm on the cheeks, and 1 mm on the thinner areas ..


@jeang What needle length did you use on your scars? And how for long did you needle each area with the derminator ? did you use anything after? like Vitamin A? I hear you guys speak about it, that its a must, even Dr Des Fernandes speaks about it.. I dont know.. I dont want to add weird shit to my face if i can avoid it.. Thanks!
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Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:58 pm      Reply with quote
Penta wrote:

I would just really really appreciate if someone could share a more detailed account of their routine for stretchmarks.


What works for some does not necessarily works for others.

I personally do not see a point in using Vit C at all. But that is just me. And I would use Retin A on stretch marks every other day on a stretch mark. Plus, right after dermal needling (depending on the % & your skin sensitivity level).

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Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:47 pm      Reply with quote
I didn't originally buy my Derminator from owndoc (bought it off someone who was a 'change of mind') anyway, I've ordered additional needles etc from owndoc and shipping to Australia is up to 8 weeks due to Australia Post delays (I've read the part of the thread about the USPS problems), just wondering if that was the experience of any others ordering from Oz? I'm not concerned and won't be contacting them but was just interested as most of my OS parcels arrive pretty quickly and sometimes quicker than domestic.

I used my Derminator for the first time today and I think it's going to become my favourite gadget...and I have many Shock. Anyone also use it on their c-section scar with any success?

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Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:15 pm      Reply with quote
Check it out - finally a video of someone using the Derminator on her face! She looks to be making larger circles than I use, but she stays in one area for longer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzUdMhmmssI

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Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:15 am      Reply with quote
Guys, would you mind sharing what the deepst setting is, you have used on your cheeks? 2 mm ? 3 mm ?
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Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:41 pm      Reply with quote
I just did a 2mm roll on my neck last week for the first time last week. I haven't done over 1mm roll on my face.

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Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:33 am      Reply with quote
jiidea wrote:
Guys, would you mind sharing what the deepst setting is, you have used on your cheeks? 2 mm ? 3 mm ?


I've used 1.5 - very little bleeding, if any, so I'm going to go up to 2 next time.

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