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Lacy63
New Member
 
Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Posts: 3
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Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:49 am  |
I'm 63, male. The skin is so loose under my left eye it's folding and laying skin on skin. I can literally see the skin move as my heart beats.
People often tell me I look in my 50's (perhaps they are just being kind) but IMO, I look about 90 years old around my eyes. My right eye is not showing the pulse rate but it's not too far behind. Both have mega wrinkles, top and bottom. Ugh, the sagging skin.
My face is not really wrinkled otherwise. I don't even really have crows feet. It's just above and below my eyes that's really showing me older than even my years.
With the kind help of the EDS forum members I would very much appreciate help in planning an all out assault to try to correct this eye area as much as reasonably possible. I realize miracles won't be had or results seen overnight but I am hopeful with the right direction my eye area can be improved.
What I feel I need are very specific directions. I need very specific products. I feel I need very specific exercises and a very specific regime just for this eye area, such as;
1. Cleanser for eye area
2. Toner for eye area
3. Serum for eye area
4. Moisturizer for eye area
5. Sunscreen for eye area
6. Exercises for eye area
7. Anything else for the eye area
I can do DIY or buy ready made products. I am acne prone and still have active breakouts. Dermarollers, peels, light therapy, acupuncture, witch craft are all on the table. 
Please suggest exactly which products to use and please specify AM or PM if different.
I would be very grateful for everyone's participation here. You guys/gals probably know what works for many and what is snake oil for most. I could read on EDS for months and would only be guessing at best and I might do more harm than good. I don't have time or skin to waste.
Thanks,
~L |
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Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:54 pm |
I'm male also. The area you described is a tough one to treat as you know especially as the years roll on. Seems people have the most success with cosmetic procedures such as fillers, etc.
The cleanser, toner, sunscreen you should think of for the whole face not just the eye area.
Oils work great as a mouisturizer. Emu, grapeseed, jojoba, macadamia to name a few.
Vitamin C serum and Retin-A are heavy hitters.
Look into either Flexeffect or Ageless facial exercises.
Dermarolling is a great option. Been doing it 3.5 years myself. Use a .75mm+ once every 4 weeks or more.
One thing you absolutely cant do is incorporate too many things all at once and overwhelm your skin. Causing inflammation and a host of issues.
Burnout sunscreen is highly popular. http://burnoutsun.com/
Amazon and ebay are well priced.
Great gentle cleanser. Check out the reviews.
http://www.vitacost.com/earth-science-a-d-e-creamy-cleanser
Awesome toner
http://www.vitacost.com/humphreys-homeopathic-remedy-witch-hazel-cucumber-melon-8-fl-oz |
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Lacy63
New Member
Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Posts: 3
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Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:41 am |
Hi Pandax, and thank you for your reply.
I'm new to skin care obviously or I wouldn't have let it go as far as I have. Guys are not supposed to primp in the mirror you know, and that idiotic philosophy has caused me some major skin problems ALL my life.
About 2 months ago, I decided to do something about my skin and have done some homework. I've bought some products but was afraid to do much to my eye area for fear of doing more harm than good once I realized I had been doing some bad things to the skin under my eyes.
The rest of my face is gradually showing some improvement now that I'm on a decent skin care routine. It took some time to find the right products, have them shipped, apply them long enough to see any results at all. You know the routine.
I learned the hard way that the skin around my eyes should treated differently than the other skin on my face. The reason I started to believe this was because I read that certain products should never be used around the eyes. For example, any tightening masks, any clay masks and or drying products like a AHA/BHA should be avoided or treated with special care.
I learned this too late and after I attempted to tighten that eye area. What I found was it actually loosened the skin around my eyes. I was using the wrong products and incorrectly and it cost me. This only accounts for part for my eye skin situation but should serve as an example to anyone reading this, that they should proceed with caution around that eye area. Some products may be suitable under the eyes AND on the face and neck, some products, not so much.
So, age, ignorance and neglect caused this under eye situation and that brings me to EDS.
I find a ton of conflicting information out there and I can't sort it all out in one post so let's start with a cleanser / toner example.
Some say the cleanser should be mild for under the eye as not to strip the oil. Others say, that any cleanser only stays on your face for 30 seconds anyway so any chemicals in the cleanser actually have little to no effect.
As someone who still has active acne, the SA cleansers sounds appealing but are causing me pause when I think about their drying effects. Do I need a separate cleanser for eyes?
Some say once I have my skin clean, the preferred next step is to apply a few drops oil to my hands and apply to my wet face to hold moisture. If I do that, then why would I wipe a toner next and remove that oil?
Another conflict. Why would I put oil on before any product anyway if the whole idea of topicals is to layer products and let them absorb before applying another. The theory follows that the product closest to the skin always has the greatest absorption rate.
If I followed the above theory, then when I get out of the shower, I should apply an eye serum to wet skin not put anything else that can lay on the top of the skin and prevent the eye serum from penetrating.
You see where I'm going with this, and while I accept the fact that everyone's skin is different, the methodology for applications should remain consistent in my estimation. Who would rub Vaseline on their face then apply a C serum? The C would never would get to the skin, right?
The application method of topicals sometimes seems conflicted at best and some claim the purposes of a toner is to return the skin to the proper PH. Although there is also some conflicting talk on this theory too.
My own tests using my digital PH meter and toners the other day showed this:
PH of Thayers Lavender Witch Hazel - 4.9
PH of 50/50 tap water and Braggs ACV - 3.4
PH of straight ACV was - 4.6
PH of my distilled water was - 4.2
PH of my tap water was - 5.5
If the ideal PH of skin is 5.5, why would I use something other than my tap water which is already on my face?
BTW, in an attempt to add an SA component to my toner, I tried both tablet uncoated Aspirin and about 500 MG of BC powder and both lowered the PH across the board. I also tested Salicin (a 10% willow bark extract I bought from Lotioncrafters) and the thayers WH at 50/50 mix and the PH was 4.2 ) Frankly, I'm not seeing the claims that a toner "returns the skin to proper PH" unless something happens when the toner hits the skin. Maybe there are some PH balanced toners out there but Witch Hazel and AVC are neither of them from my tests. Just sayin'.
And, according to most, a toner is also used to remove any left over residue that the cleanser has left behind. If I put oil on my face BEFORE the toner to seal in moisture as they claim I should, I'm just wiping off that oil when I apply the toner and if I leave the oil on, the oil has sealed off the face from receiving the toner in the first place. What part if that makes sense?
If I elected to use the OCM method of cleaning, wouldn't the toner application negate the effect by removing the oil left over from the OCM? Oil on oil off?
I don't think there is any question that one should use a mild cleanser on the eye area and probably the face in general but the question in my mind, is what do I apply next?
I'm thinking a heavy duty eye serum makes the most sense, but the question is which one? I am using an eye serum now but not convinced it's doing any good. I also use Almond oil /E under my eyes in an attempt to stop further sagging. I don't know that I'm making any gain here but don't think I'm getting worse.
I do have a C serum that I make up and use on the rest of my face but for this eye area, I need more than this I think. I've been using this on my face for 3 weeks now but avoiding the eye area for fear of doing more damage than good. This is KassyA's serum recipe, not mine.
15% vitamin C + E + ferulic + Jojoba
1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
1 tsp Sea Kelp Bioferment
1 tsp Jojoba Oil
3 tsp Distilled water
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid
1/4 tsp Vitamin E Oil
Some say to use a C serum under my eyes, others say NO. Some say treat the skin under the eyes like any other skin on my face. Others say NO.
Thanks for the Burnout suggestion. Actually, I'm using the Burnout Face and Body for SS and having good results but again avoiding my eye area until I find the right products this time. Sunglasses get the call. Do you think the Face and Body is safe to use under the eyes?
I started Tretinoin .1 that I got from All Day Chemist the other day but again, it goes nowhere near my under eye area until I know it won't do more harm than good or I know exactly how you use it. I use it every other day on my face and the NCN Microfiber cloth to shed the peelies. It's working ok on the other parts of my face but terrified of exfoliating the eye area when I don't know what I'm doing. |
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Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:09 pm |
| Lacy63 wrote: |
Some say the cleanser should be mild for under the eye as not to strip the oil. Others say, that any cleanser only stays on your face for 30 seconds anyway so any chemicals in the cleanser actually have little to no effect.
As someone who still has active acne, the SA cleansers sounds appealing but are causing me pause when I think about their drying effects. Do I need a separate cleanser for eyes? |
Suggest a mild cleanser and then an acid toner.
| Lacy63 wrote: |
| Some say once I have my skin clean, the preferred next step is to apply a few drops oil to my hands and apply to my wet face to hold moisture. If I do that, then why would I wipe a toner next and remove that oil? Another conflict. Why would I put oil on before any product anyway if the whole idea of topicals is to layer products and let them absorb before applying another. The theory follows that the product closest to the skin always has the greatest absorption rate. |
Oils are occlusive so they should go last. I know some people use dry oils such as rosehip first but I believe that still blocks the absorption of products applied later. Or you can mix oil into your moisturizer.
| Lacy63 wrote: |
| If I followed the above theory, then when I get out of the shower, I should apply an eye serum to wet skin not put anything else that can lay on the top of the skin and prevent the eye serum from penetrating. |
There are many good threads about product application order on EDS. To summarize:
Cleanse for 60 seconds
Tone (I just dab on with palms and do not use cotton pads). If you cleansed well, then no need to “get rid of leftover residue.”
Vitamin C
Serums
Moisturizer
Oils
Sunscreen
If you are using a ph balanced cleanser and toner, then no need to practice wait times. If you watch some Paula Choice videos, they discuss the ph issue.
For sagging, depends on the cause. Could be lymph fluids, age, inflammation.
- Try Tanaka massage and ultrasound (Sqoom/Fyola) for lymph drainage.
- For lifting, microcurrent.
- Retin A (tretinoin) will help lift and also improve skin quality. Start slow around the eyes and you can even buffer it first with a light layer of moisturizer for the first few months. There is a video on YouTube by Hotandflashy and she describes her usage of Retin A and the effect on her eyes.
- Baby Quasar MD wiped out my crows feet in five months.
- Obagi Nuderm regime will tighten the skin
- Haven't tried dermaneedling but heard it can help - read the threads here and on owndoc.com
Hope some of this helps. Good luck! |
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Dry skin but not many wrinkles; 50s and Asian; Topicals: Vit C, tretinoin, hydroquinone & azaleic acid for melasma; Likes: SK-II, Shiseido, Shu Uemura, Skinceuticals, Obagi, P50, Sunday Riley, Hada Labo, facial oils |
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Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:07 am |
Here's what helped me. I had a Hetters peel , a type of Phenol peel done to my eyes at a doctors office about 5 years ago. Tightened everything up. But you need at least 4 weeks of down time and it dosent last past 5 yrs, or at least it didn't for me.
So now I'm trying to tighten up the skin again ( I'm 65) I am a regular RetinA and vitamin C user, I do use that under and around my eyes. I started using the DERMANATOR sold at OWNDOC and I do use it around my eyes , I started this the beginning of January with a product called AnteAGE ( some love it , some hate it) I'm amazed in a month after 2 Derminator treatments and a month of AnteAGE 2x daily how improved my eyes are( and lips and my entire face for that matter) I derminated once prior to receiving AnteAGE with Hyluronaic acid so you can go that route also. I follow the method laid out in the Dr.Lance Setterfield Book that I purchased from Amazon. The concise guide to dermaneedling , expanded medical edition.
I still use my NuFace microcurrent, followed by my AnteAGE .
This may not be the way that you want to go, but it is working for me so far. And that is after 2 treatments ( I take pictures) I can only imagine that it will get even better!
Good luck, I hope you find what you need here. You will find many different treatment plans and styles we are all different . But you will notice a lot of commonality also, retinA, vitamin C , microcurrent, dermaneedling things that really work. Everything takes time. |
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Too numerous to mention! |
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Lacy63
New Member
Joined: 04 Feb 2015
Posts: 3
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Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:56 am |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| I am a regular RetinA and vitamin C user, I do use that under and around my eyes. |
Oh really... I have both of those but was told not to apply them on the eyes. What is in your C serum?
You sound like someone I need to speak with. I just gave up on my eye creme today. I think it was making things worse.
The serum I was using, the maker told me not to use anything other than these products under my eyes. I've been putting that C serum (I posted in this thread) on my face for a few weeks and having good results but was careful not to get it near my eye area.
I used the eye products faithfully for a couple of weeks and each week I felt they got worse or at best stayed the same while the rest of the skin on my face was improving.
How does my C serum compare to yours?
What are the ingredients in the other products you used near your eyes?
I do have a new moisturizer on it's way to me. I can't post links yet but it's by Raisin Face. I ordered the extreme skin Fix and according to Tracy, it can also be used on eyes.
Now, I think it makes sense to find a serum especially for the eyes and use that in conjunction with Retin-a , C and this moisturizer.
Which eye cream? |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:25 pm |
| rmc7 wrote: |
| I am a regular RetinA and vitamin C user, I do use that under and around my eyes. |
| Lacy63 wrote: |
Oh really... I have both of those but was told not to apply them on the eyes. What is in your C serum?
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Well, I've been using RetinA for many years, so I wouldn't rub the .1 on my eyes unless I'd been used to it. I'd start out with the lightest and buffer it with some sort of cream maybe every other night. My Vitamin C is very Simple ( and very unscientific) I mix a tiny bit (L- Ascorbic acid powder) with distilled water every day and pat it all over my face and eyes . It can sting a bit. Then I use the AnteAge serum and accelerator . I really like to keep things simple. The recipe that you are using C,E & Ferulic is probably as good as it gets! I don't understand why you couldn't use that around your eyes? In fact I would use it to buffer the retinA unless there is a counterindication I'm missing. And if their is someone will chime in . |
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Too numerous to mention! |
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