Shop with us!!! We sell the most advanced skin care anti-aging cosmetics on the market: cellex-c, phytomer, sothys, dermalogica, md formulations, decleor, valmont, kinerase, yonka, jane iredale, thalgo, yon-ka, ahava, bioelements, jan marini, peter thomas roth, murad, ddf, orlane, glominerals, StriVectin SD.
 
 back to skin care discussion board front page with forums indexEDS Skin Care Forums Search the ForumSearch Most popular all-time Forum TopicsHot! Library
 Guidelines  FAQ  Register
Free gifts for Forum MembersForum Gifts Free Gifts offers at Essential Day SpaFree Gifts Offers  Log in



Stretched skin from doing facial exercises- really need help

EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare
Reply to topic
Author Message
solarflower
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 5
Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:36 pm      Reply with quote
Hello everyone,
I have been doing a couple of facial exercises over the last two months, one was for lifting the cheek and the other one for the jowls..

The jowls one I only did for a last two weeks 150 reps a day, but it's the one that stretched the skin around my mouth so much that now the nasolabial fold is very deep and it joined with the marionate lines and goes all the way down the face. I only noticed on Tuesday (3 days ago) and stopped doing it but unfortunately my skin didn't go back to its original position. I must have been pressing and stretching too much. I would like to post a picture but I'm not sure how to attach it. Is there a way?

I'm so upset with myself for doing it, because it made a big difference to my lines, the skin is really sagging on both sides of the mouth and I can't smile any more without looking much older. I'm 39 and this was my first attempt at face exercises. I know now I should have been doing a whole face routine rather than just concentrating on one area.. too late I guess.

Is there anything I can do to reverse the stretching and sagging of the skin? It's only been a couple of weeks, is there any chance the skin will revert back to its original position? Would massaging it help? I'm desperate as it's really terrible. Please help!
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2448
Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:04 am      Reply with quote
Hi Solarflower

Ok yes you should be doing a full program when starting out but also why did you do 150 reps. You may just have over done things so you may just need to stop everything.

dont be upset - we has ever all been there and done it but you need to be sensible now. Rest up and let the face return to a rested state but it needs time of at least a month I am guessing
maggie_p
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 118
Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:58 am      Reply with quote
Hi solarflower,

I have been doing some facial exercises in last few months and have also had issues with NL becoming more pronounced...
Skin needs to be well moisturised to bounce back quickly. I have also found that doing a massage after the exercise (or just a massage) helps a lot, try to find some on youtube (I like the one you can find by searching for 'Face Exercise - Add this New Nasolabial Fold Wrinkle Releaser to your Face Exercise Routine' on youtube - can't post links yet).

I would also second what Theresa Mary says about doing the full program Smile
solarflower
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 5
Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:57 am      Reply with quote
Thank you for your replies.
Funny that you posted Peta's link, I was doing her exercises, Sagging Jowls and Cheek Lifter.
Yes, I have overdone it seriously. More is not more. Must learn that. Obviously the hard way.
I am now taking a break and hope it will all come down a bit. I didn't know face exercises could be so powerful, I found out about the negative side effects but would also love to find how to do them so there are positive benefits.
If anyone has any other ideas how to 'shrink' skin please let me know.
maggie_p
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 118
Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:56 am      Reply with quote
Peta usually insists on isolating the muscle and not scrunching anything else while doing the exercise... Mind you, on these 2 exercises, she doesn't have NL fold while doing them, I do... That is why I think it is important to do exercises in front of a mirror.

I do Facercise, and I have started adding Petas modifications for some exercises, like cheek one (Peta has a variant of cheek plumper with finger placement that stops NL fold from forming while doing it, try to find that one). You can also ask her questions on youtube, as far as I can see she is quite responsive.

I have been reading a lot about jowls exercises on this forum and on the web, and a lot of people believe that that muscle can easily overbuild and that exercising it can be counter productive. Since I have RBT, I decided to skip those exercises completely, and do neck and cheek exercises to try to fix small sagging in that area.

I really feel for you for what happened, and I hope it passes soon...
lehti
Full Member
5% products discount

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 17
Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:32 pm      Reply with quote
Hey Solarflower, I've been doing Peta's exercises as well and just as Maggie_p I had n/l fold while doing it. So I became super careful with it, I hold my hand in that area while exercising to prevent skin creasing and damaging, but despite it I started to notice that n/l becomes more pronounced on my resting face. So I stopped doing the cheeks exercises. After 2 weeks the fold is gone, so I'm pretty sure you'll be ok too and your face will get back to its normal state.

My theory is that cheek muscle might became too heavy for the surrounding muscles to hold it in place, hence dropping. Not sure if that's possible within 2 weeks, but face muscles are very small and connected to the skin so the slightest changes are very visible very fast.
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2448
Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:42 am      Reply with quote
I think the theory is incorrect - what happens is that when you overwork muscles, they cannot be in their normal healthy state and they are just exhausted. Its not the muscles are too heavy to be supported but simply have been overworked. Doing 10 reps sometimes can be too difficult for weaker muscle but doing 150 reps is definitely going to have that awkward result for sure.
lehti
Full Member
5% products discount

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 17
Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:49 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary - you may be right, I'm just trying to visualize it - so the zygomaticus muscles just stay uptight (pulling the skin at their insertion point) and when they recover, they relax?
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2448
Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:23 am      Reply with quote
Lehti – I think you are trying to apply the visualisation to a different category here than originally discussed. Original poster was talking about doing only two exercises 150x a day. So trying to visualise a muscle being in its rightful position won’t help no matter what if you overtire a muscle. It will just give up and be exhausted and hang no matter what you do visualisation wise.

If the original poster had done say 2-3 reps, that would not exhaust the muscle, and so it wouldn’t hang or sag but would remain in its rightful position. Plus the resistance would encourage the muscle to shorten rather than elongate.
lehti wrote:
TheresaMary - you may be right, I'm just trying to visualize it - so the zygomaticus muscles just stay uptight (pulling the skin at their insertion point) and when they recover, they relax?
lehti
Full Member
5% products discount

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 17
Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:42 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary - I think you misunderstood me. I asked about what you think is happening when you overwork the muscle (zygomaticus group here, as it's the one that was overworked). Does the muscle shorten (which I described as stay uptight and pull the skin, therefore cause the n/l fold) or does it lengthen and "hang", not holding the skin in the "right" position anymore.

Not trying to argue here, rather understand the process - what exactly does it mean that the muscle is "exhausted"?
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2448
Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:26 am      Reply with quote
The trouble is that what you are asking about depends on the person and to what extent they have overworked their muscle and whether it is weak or strong. For example lets take a bicep curl, if someone has weak biceps but strong triceps for example, then they do a few reps with a 10 lb weight, that will start to strengthen that muscle over time. But if they start doing 100 reps 10 times a day, that is going to create a very different effect than working out smartly. With facial exercises there is no set in stone results method guaranteed by any program out there- and anyone who tries to tell you that there is – is misleading you. Every program needs some level of adaptation depending on the person using it, what their goals are, genetics, age and lifestyle is.

If you look at the original poster – she said she did only two exercises (which goes completely against what most programs teach you – in that you need to exercise all the main muscle groups), and over did things by doing up to 100 plus reps. In all likelihood she may have done ten times that amount.

So liken it just as you would for the body, what happens if you overwork a muscle – it goes into shock and exhaustion not strength and development. It doesn’t effect where the muscle begins or originates, but if a muscle is drastically sagging already – that can seem to be more elongated and so overworking a sagging muscle doesn’t automatically shorten it or shrink it, simply overties the muscle.

I’m not an expert so hopefully Loulou or Deborah can pop by (as both developed their own progams and know the science better than me).
lehti
Full Member
5% products discount

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 17
Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:13 am      Reply with quote
I know the effect on the face depends on many factors, but biology behind it remains the same. And it's the basics I was curious about (sorry, but the topic fascinates me too much Smile ) You were right, my initial theory with too much weight in the muscle was wrong.

I did some research in the meantime and I found what I was looking for, maybe somebody else will find it helpful too. I always find it helpful to know what's going on and why I shouldn't do something.

Basically every time you exercise the muscle, the fibers in it get torn and when they heal, they do it the way to be stronger and be able to respond to the new challenge you gave it. If you don't give it a chance to recover, it will be weak, faint and unable to serve as a foundation to other facial structures.

"Your muscles don't grow from working out, they grow from resting. In the gym, you tear up your muscle fibers and when you rest and recover that's when they repair to be stronger and bigger."

"Think of your central nervous system (CNS) as a rechargeable battery. It has only a finite amount of charge to it. Every time you do a challenging workout, you are draining charge from your battery. If you overtax the battery, it won't provide the energy you need.

Aside from that, your muscles also experience a certain amount of damage when you train them with resistance. It is only microscopic damage to your muscle cells, but it takes time for that muscle to rebuild itself. If you never give yourself a chance to recover you will overtrain. "

And yes, I would also love some facial experts to come here and give their insight into the topic.
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2448
Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:59 am      Reply with quote
Actually you are incorrect the biology isn’t all the same. Some people don’t have risorius muscles for example. Recent article here: http://www.bridgetwaller.com/WALLERetal2008b.pdf. Many people are actually “missing” certain muscles in the face and this can inhibit them temporarily in being able to make certain movements that facial exercises demand.

Now with the research that you mentioned, if you look at the original poster’s post you will see that doing 100 plus reps a day is going to interfere with the healing that needs to take place which is the point I have tried making which is why I suggested they back off and rest. You have just started learning them so this is all new to you – but give it a few years and you will be a pro I promise but you got to do your reading.
lehti
Full Member
5% products discount

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 17
Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:21 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary - I think there's a lot of misunderstanding going on here. I completely agree with you that solarflower should take a rest and yes, I already saw that this research proves that overworking is bad and taking a rest is essential. I'm not pretending I know it all, the article you quoted is very interesting and adds to the subject. Still the research I quoted explains (at the very least partially explains) what happened to solarflower's muscles and WHY she needs to rest now.
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2448
Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:48 am      Reply with quote
Lehti – there is a lot of misunderstanding going on here and I’m not sure why you feel compelled to take apart everything I’m saying but nonetheless – I’m pointing out the very basics here and have done repeatedly. The information that you have posted is available for everyone for sure – and I’m not distracting from it but when you share opinions based without properly reading the original posters message it creates confusion as we have already seen when you went off on a tangent that was completely unrelated. I think information sharing is great but it is very confusing the way you are choosing to do so here.
maggie_p
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 118
Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:48 am      Reply with quote
I think we all agree that 150 reps was too much too soon...

There is one more factor with all of us new to facial exercise (and who knows, maybe with the ones who have been doing it for some time). Facial muscles are small muscles. They are connected to skin. Some are smaller, some bigger, they work together and interact. Each face is unique, so it can be tricky to identify whether correct muscle is being used, it is quite possible to use a different muscle then the intended one (or maybe another one can take over without any concious effort). I have been thinking about why Lehti and me end up with NL fold when Peta doesn't... Are we doing the exercise wrongly or is some other muscle hopping in.

I don't really think stretching the skin caused the fold, I really think some muscle made it more pronounced, but still can't figure out which one...

Could it be Levator anguli oris (caninus)? And if yes, how to stop it from working when it shouldn't be...

TheresaMary, do you have a theory what could be happening because a lot of us beginners end up with pronounced NL folds very quickly? Massage helped me quickly and from that point, I always try to place fingers so that I don't see the fold appearing...
lehti
Full Member
5% products discount

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 17
Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:46 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary - since when you became "we"?

I share what I found useful, sorry if that caused confusion for anyone. For me sharing thoughts is what discussion is about and I always underlined that it was my theory where I was unsure. For me EOT.
jasminerosey
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 18 Sep 2008
Posts: 1115
Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:41 am      Reply with quote
Has anyone who has done Peta's facial exercises had any negative results with any of her other exercises?

_________________
71 years, primarily raw living food 35 years(vegan 45 years) herbal tea decoctions, homeopathy, TCM, facial massage, facial exercises, vacu-lifting, gua aha, shiatsu/acupressure, intention, home microcurrrent
maggie_p
Senior Member
10% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 118
Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:45 pm      Reply with quote
jasminerosey wrote:
Has anyone who has done Peta's facial exercises had any negative results with any of her other exercises?


Hi jasminerosey,

just to be clear, I did not have negative results with her exercises, I have only noticed that my expression has NL fold during some exercises and then reposition the fingers (it doesn't stay like that). Some of her exercises are quite similar to Facersize so I usually do the modification that I prefer. I ended up doing them after developing NL fold while doing Facersize (but without double checking in the mirror)...

Peta recommends to always start with 50 and she also recommends to isolate the muscle and ensure that nothing else is doing the work...

Essentially, I am not certain that we can blame some exercise program for doing something to our face... Without personal consultation, it takes time for each one of us to figure out what works and what doesn't...
otherloulou
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 501
Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:55 am      Reply with quote
TheresaMary wrote:
I think the theory is incorrect - what happens is that when you overwork muscles, they cannot be in their normal healthy state and they are just exhausted. Its not the muscles are too heavy to be supported but simply have been overworked. Doing 10 reps sometimes can be too difficult for weaker muscle but doing 150 reps is definitely going to have that awkward result for sure.


Theresa Mary is right. I just posted about this on the Carole Maggio thread: you can't really do facial exercises 'wrongly' one facial exercise program isn't 'safer' than another, they are all designed to tire the muscles out.

When you're tired the day after a long run you haven't ruined your fitness: you just need time to recover. Progress happens after the tissues are rested and rebuilt The facial muscles don't look their best until they've had time to recover, and it can sometimes take longer than you expect. But it doesn't matter how much 'damage' you've done, your face will always recover.

If I could humbly add, this is why the Ageless program is very brief and infrequent, and focuses on key muscles: it doesn't require long periods of recovery where it looks bad! That doesn't make it 'safer' than other programs, though. I repeat, the face will always recover and rebuild.
Loulou

_________________
Founder of the Ageless program: www.Agelessifyoudare.com.
solarflower
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 5
Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:49 am      Reply with quote
Reading all this and other threads on the forum has been very helpful, thank you everyone. It's been two weeks since I stopped exercising and the progress is very slow. I see now how I overtrained and overbuilt my jaw and cheek muscles hence the nasolabial lines became folds and I developed concentric half circle lines (3 on each side) radiating from the main laugh line. My smile is still crooked and the folds go down to the chin. My resting face has no folds or wrinkles, it's when I smile that everything becomes a mess. I'm trying to rest the face as much as possible. It's not linear progress. There are days when, if I've slept well and not stressed, the face looks a bit better and then the next day it's back to black. Meditation and emotional work seems to be helping too. I'm amazed how long it takes to recover.

LouLou, thank you for your post, it gives me hope that in a few weeks there will be more improvement. I did so many repetitions because deep down I didn't believe I was actually "doing" anything. I didn't really believe in the effectiveness of facial exercises so I didn't realise I could cause problems. What a powerful lesson..
TheresaMary
VIP Member
20% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 2448
Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:08 am      Reply with quote
You aren't the only one to make that mistake, and probably won't be the last but by sharing hopefully you can help others avoid making that same mistake. Your face will change back. Just like body exercises, you stop exercising and the body reverts back well same is true for face.
solarflower wrote:
I did so many repetitions because deep down I didn't believe I was actually "doing" anything. I didn't really believe in the effectiveness of facial exercises so I didn't realise I could cause problems. What a powerful lesson..
solarflower
New Member

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 04 Jun 2015
Posts: 5
Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:42 am      Reply with quote
My 4 week update is not encouraging: I still have very loose skin on both sides of the mouth and 3 parentheses lines on each side when I smile. They were not there before. When I put my face in a horizontal position facing down both sides of the mouth really sag.

I looked at pictures from before doing the exercise and I only have one line on each side, just the laugh lines. Now it's like an accordion on my face when I make any expression. It's not fine lines because it all disappears when I have a resting face. But because there is so much excess skin, when I smile, there are many folds created on each side of the mouth going down to the chin.

Is there any chance that the skin will be absorbed back again? I think I damaged the elastin fibres and it seems the only thing that would help is a facelift which is not option for me.

I am heartbroken and desperate to go back to how I looked before. If any of you have any experience or ideas how to help this situation please share with me. I'm scared to do any more exercises because the effects have been so dramatic. Besides, from reading on the forum, the area around the mouth and lower cheek is very difficult to tone anyway. I can't afford to stretch it any more. I'm trying to limit my expressions anyway but I am a naturally smiley person and can't keep a poker face. Save for a time machine - I'm at a loss..
otherloulou
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 501
Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:45 pm      Reply with quote
Hi solarflower,

I'm so sorry you're going through this, but take heart because you will come out the other side!

First, the facial skin doesn't sag away from the muscle. On the face, the two layers are attached so as to allow complex facial expressions. So any sag you see is actually caused by slack muscles, not excess of skin!

Just like the body's muscles, the facial muscles will sag a bit when they're tired, at first it can seem like it takes forever for them to look better, but they will.

Second, I can't emphasise enough how intimately the appearance of the face is bound up with mood. Disappointment and anxiety sap the muscles of energy and encourage a lacklustre droop.

For example: If you look at the before/after pictures on Carole maggios site, they are actually taken on the same day, the collars are in the same position and the hair is identical. They haven't done any facial exercise in between the two pictures. They haven't done anything! The massive difference between the befores and the afters is entirely due to the expression on their faces.

Your face will recover, don't be upset with yourself because in the long run you've done a good thing.
Big hug,
Ageless Loulou

_________________
Founder of the Ageless program: www.Agelessifyoudare.com.
otherloulou
Preferred Member
15% products discount
free skin care

View user's profileSend private message
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 501
Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:45 pm      Reply with quote
Sorry, double post.

_________________
Founder of the Ageless program: www.Agelessifyoudare.com.
System
Automatic Message
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:59 pm
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.

Reply to topic



Peter Thomas Roth Acne Spot and Area Treatment (15 ml / 0.5 floz) Anthony Logistics Wake Up Call Hydrating Treatment Gel (90 ml / 3 floz) Dr Dennis Gross Age Erase Moisture with Mega 10 Plus for Eyes (15 ml / 0.5 floz)