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Which Home device is good for building collagen?
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carforum
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Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:37 am      Reply with quote
Hi, I would like to buy a home device to build collagen, prevent saggy. Could anyone please suggest which home device is good for me? Tripollar, lightstim, or Nuface?


I am 35now, and I can feel my face are losing collagen, less elastic then before. But my skin is in good condition, no wrinkles, no acne. But one of my eyelid is a bit saggy now.

Thanks for help

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-------My skin type = Dry skin--------
TheresaMary
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Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:45 am      Reply with quote
Depends where you are starting from really. At 35 you are still pretty young. All those devices are said to improve collagen etc but from memory the tripollar uses radio frequencies and the nuface is microcurrent. So if you are dealing with sagging, depending on how that is caused, all could deliver results.
carforum wrote:
Hi, I would like to buy a home device to build collagen, prevent saggy. Could anyone please suggest which home device is good for me? Tripollar, lightstim, or Nuface?


I am 35now, and I can feel my face are losing collagen, less elastic then before. But my skin is in good condition, no wrinkles, no acne. But one of my eyelid is a bit saggy now.

Thanks for help
RussianSunshine
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Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:58 pm      Reply with quote
The easiest and least expensive ways to stimulate collagen synthesis is Retin-A. Also, Collagen Induction Therapy should work.
oaijason
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Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:59 am      Reply with quote
what about oral one?
Lin1313
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Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:34 am      Reply with quote
oaijason wrote:
what about oral one?


This is the latest hype in the Far East, from Singapore through Japan to China but I don't know whether it works.
preciousia
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Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:15 am      Reply with quote
RussianSunshine wrote:
The easiest and least expensive ways to stimulate collagen synthesis is Retin-A. Also, Collagen Induction Therapy should work.


what collagen induction therapy?
Lin1313
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Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:57 am      Reply with quote
preciousia wrote:

what collagen induction therapy?


This is the easiest to understand, I hope it helps you:
I read Doctors comments #2 & #3
https://www.realself.com/question/collagen-induction-therapy

This is probably why the girls in Singapore, Japan, Taiwan & Korea all prefer to take it by mouth.

I hate needles so I'll stick to using my Monsia day & night moisturizers & applying vit E Oil as well because it helps to seal in moisture and keeps my face smooth and "elastic".
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Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:49 pm      Reply with quote
preciousia wrote:
RussianSunshine wrote:
The easiest and least expensive ways to stimulate collagen synthesis is Retin-A. Also, Collagen Induction Therapy should work.


what collagen induction therapy?


Do a search on here for dermarolling or microneedling. A lot of us on here do it and it's not as bad as it sounds.
ATester
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Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:54 pm      Reply with quote
Lin1313 wrote:
oaijason wrote:
what about oral one?


This is the latest hype in the Far East, from Singapore through Japan to China but I don't know whether it works.


Hi, what is this "oral one" about? I'm lost. Does it simply mean taking oral supplements of collagen?
preciousia
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Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:48 am      Reply with quote
tigerlily009 wrote:
preciousia wrote:
RussianSunshine wrote:
The easiest and least expensive ways to stimulate collagen synthesis is Retin-A. Also, Collagen Induction Therapy should work.


what collagen induction therapy?


Do a search on here for dermarolling or microneedling. A lot of us on here do it and it's not as bad as it sounds.



yes, i am actually doing some research on it.
bought derma stamp 0.2mm and 0.5mm dermaroll to start Smile
preciousia
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Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:50 am      Reply with quote
preciousia wrote:
tigerlily009 wrote:
preciousia wrote:
RussianSunshine wrote:
The easiest and least expensive ways to stimulate collagen synthesis is Retin-A. Also, Collagen Induction Therapy should work.


what collagen induction therapy?


Do a search on here for dermarolling or microneedling. A lot of us on here do it and it's not as bad as it sounds.



yes, i am actually doing some research on it.
bought derma stamp 0.2mm and 0.5mm dermaroll to start Smile


With regards to liquid collagen, i used to take that. used to spend hundreds a month and the results are negligible.
Lin1313
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Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:37 am      Reply with quote
ATester wrote:
Lin1313 wrote:
oaijason wrote:
what about oral one?


This is the latest hype in the Far East, from Singapore through Japan to China but I don't know whether it works.


Hi, what is this "oral one" about? I'm lost. Does it simply mean taking oral supplements of collagen?


Yes, taken by mouth in pill form.
preciousia
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Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:23 am      Reply with quote
Lin1313 wrote:
ATester wrote:
Lin1313 wrote:
oaijason wrote:
what about oral one?


This is the latest hype in the Far East, from Singapore through Japan to China but I don't know whether it works.


Hi, what is this "oral one" about? I'm lost. Does it simply mean taking oral supplements of collagen?


Yes, taken by mouth in pill form.


there are liquid collagen too, easier for the body to absorb. they come in little glass bottles. probably 15ml.
TheresaMary
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Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:22 am      Reply with quote
Could you provide links to studies as
you are making this sound scientific but all I have read suggests that there is little to any proof you can reabsorb collagen because the molecules are too big to pass through cell walls.
preciousia wrote:
there are liquid collagen too, easier for the body to absorb. they come in little glass bottles. probably 15ml.
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Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:27 am      Reply with quote
preciousia wrote:
With regards to liquid collagen, i used to take that. used to spend hundreds a month and the results are negligible.


TheresaMary wrote:
Could you provide links to studies as you are making this sound scientific but all I have read suggests that there is little to any proof you can reabsorb collagen because the molecules are too big to pass through cell walls.


i did say the results were negligible in my previous post. i do think the liquid is better than pills for absorption.
preciousia
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Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:50 am      Reply with quote
preciousia wrote:
preciousia wrote:

With regards to liquid collagen, i used to take that. used to spend hundreds a month and the results are negligible.


TheresaMary wrote:
Could you provide links to studies as you are making this sound scientific but all I have read suggests that there is little to any proof you can reabsorb collagen because the molecules are too big to pass through cell walls.


i did say the results were negligible in my previous post. i do think the liquid is better than pills for absorption.


To be clear, collagen pills/drinks are not simply collagen in a bottle. They contain a plethora of nutrition that helps the body build collagen.

Liquid (aka collodial) vs pill supplements is medically proven to be better for body absorption. I just chosen a liquid version for collagen instead of pill/capsule. Liquid is unfortunately more expensive too Sad

Wish there was a home dermascan we can do to show the improvement. I read Imedeen in UK actually have that service to help customers assess their skin's improvement with supplementation.

I did not do any derma test prior to starting the liquid collagen. During the same time, i just finished a course of lasers with the dermatologist that also helps with collagen production. Have to say that during that time, my skin was at its best. I've been cruising by ever since. Currently, I'm looking at micro needling and chemical peels to maintain the good skin. I also use ultrasound machine.

Have asked Dr Todorov from smartskincare regarding improving collagen and he said nutrition. i have his book on skin nutrition.

Using good skin products is not going to suffice if we were to eat junk food. We are what we eat basically and one of the best way for collagen is eating right. I know it's boring but it is true.

After your request for scientific studies, i googled and found many studies backing up supplementation. Unfortunately i apologise that i can't share the links with you guys here because i am new.

Taking food or nutritional supplements the body require like water, minerals, anti-oxidants, many essential nutriens like lipoic acid, NAG, omega 3 fatty acids etc is essential to a healthy body/ collagen production and anti-ageing.


one study:

Monash University, Melbourne, Australia (Journal of the American College of Nutrition, 2001, Vol. 20, No. 1, 71-80). The researchers analyzed the diets of 453 people (aged 70 years and over from Australia, Greece and Sweden) to determine the correlation, if any, between the consumption of certain types of foods and skin wrinkling.
The overall conclusion was that a low-glycemic diet high in varied fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes and fish was associated with less skin wrinkling.

Foods associated with less wrinkling
In the Monash study, less skin wrinkling in the elderly was associated with higher intakes of:
• Total fat
• Mono-unsaturated fat
• Olive oil and olives
• Fish (especially fatty fish, such as sardines)
• Reduced fat milk and milk products, such as yogurt
• Eggs
• Nuts and legumes (especially lima and broad beans)
• Vegetables (especially leafy greens, spinach, eggplant, asparagus, celery, onions, leeks and garlic)
• Wholegrain cereals
• Fruit and fruit products (especially prunes, cherries, apples and jams)
• Tea
• W ater
• Zinc (foods which contain zinc include seafood, lean meat, milk and nuts).
Foods associated with more wrinkling
In the Monash study, more skin wrinkling in the elderly was associated with higher intakes of:
• Saturated fat
• Meat (especially fatty processed meats)
• Full fat dairy products (especially unfermented products and ice cream)
• Soft drinks and cordials
• Cakes, pastries and desserts
• Potatoes
• Butter
• Margarine

Right now i am taking another "skin" vitamin and i think it is helping. The vitamin is no longer available, i will have to find another replacement.

I read a dermatologist rated one "collagen" drink 5 stars in UK daily mail.

Each serving contains 10,000mg of pharma-grade hydrolysed bovine collagen, hyaluronic acid, antioxidants and alpha lipoic acid, with manganese, zinc, copper and vitamin C to optimise collagen production, maintenance and repair. Preservative-free, but includes a tiny bit of sugar.

Clinical trials on the used collagen peptides showed positive results with 95 per cent absorption rates. In a recent ten-week study with Aneva Derma eight subjects all saw improved hydration, skin texture and volume in six to nine weeks; the study included skin scans. A 12-week study involving skin biopsies will report next month.

Will be hunting for a more economical skin supplement with similar ingredients.

hope this helps you all Very Happy
TheresaMary
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Wed Mar 16, 2016 10:54 am      Reply with quote
< mod snip >

You said that “there are liquid collagen too, easier for the body to absorb. they come in little glass bottles. probably 15ml” which is just your personal opinion and not factually based at all and there is little to any studies that suggest collagen supplementation has an effect on helping people to age better, or gives any major improvements to the skin/body. That’s the part I was asking for the studies for.

Now that's not to say diet has no effect, or that the body doesn't need nutrients. It surely does but collagen is not one of them. The body makes collagen on its own accord if it has the correct resources and just consuming collagen doesn't guarantee anything.

Whilst I understand that there are various degrees of schools of thought out that suggest supplementation in liquid form is better – it isn’t at all without thoughts suggesting that its incorrect too. There are reviews by doctors stating that liquids are not necessarily better for absorption when it comes to a range of supplementation. Again trying to make one size fits all never works because depending on whether you are talking a vitamin or mineral – there may be various nutrients needed by the person’s body to use that. So even with something like collagen – which incidentally many derms and doctor say the molecules are too big to be able to penetrate the skin and also that if it is consumed it wouldn’t be utilized by the body because the body would treat it like all food sources and attempt to pass it out.

Imedeen does have a scanning device that I have used and took their product for a very long time and there was an article describing what that scan actually measures is questionable and may not be an increase in collagen and elastin.
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Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:57 am      Reply with quote
Hey no worries, i don't know what "collagen" drink actualy work either. I have no idea if they actually work either as there was no basis of measure. Collagen takes time right? I consumed the liquid collagen as there was little to lose except money, so why not, try and see how it goes.

I also read that the dermatologist said than collagen molecules were too large to be absorbed. This wasn't available before when i took it over 5 years ago and the "collagen" drinks were all the rage.

How long were you taking Imedeen? Couple of years? If possible, can you share the article that says the measure is questionable?

With the naked eye, and touch and feel... that's all we can go by to gauge collagen.
What are the derma-scans available? Where can we get tested? Any clue?
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Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:58 am      Reply with quote
That is the point I was making. There is no evidence that they do – and so it may be just a waste of money. With the molecules being too large to penetrate skin (which would only be good if they were a cream) or drinking a liquid you have no guarantee that they will go to your face. So it is not so bad if you don’t mind parting your way with money but the point I made previously is that there is next to no scientific studies proving that consuming any sort of collagen does anything – except simply pass through the body.

I was taking Imedeen off and on – not consistently because they were expensive at the time. There are many articles talking about the dermascan being questionable as well as some derms actually saying it isn’t a good indicator of what is happening beneath the skin because it only measures heat. Google it.

Actually gauging if there is an increase in collagen shouldn’t be down to naked eye and touch and feel. Look at derma rolling – we know that increasese both collagen and elastin through studies as well as stimulating circulation and overall skin health. There is sufficient evidence proving that already. Likewise we also have studies done on things like lasers which are shown to increase these things too.

Dermascans – I got mine done in boots. You may be better off emailing them and they can advise you if there is one in your area.

preciousia wrote:
Hey no worries, i don't know what "collagen" drink actualy work either. I have no idea if they actually work either as there was no basis of measure. Collagen takes time right? I consumed the liquid collagen as there was little to lose except money, so why not, try and see how it goes.

I also read that the dermatologist said than collagen molecules were too large to be absorbed. This wasn't available before when i took it over 5 years ago and the "collagen" drinks were all the rage.

How long were you taking Imedeen? Couple of years? If possible, can you share the article that says the measure is questionable?

With the naked eye, and touch and feel... that's all we can go by to gauge collagen.
What are the derma-scans available? Where can we get tested? Any clue?
preciousia
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Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:30 pm      Reply with quote
TheresaMary

Thankfully, the "collagen" drinks contain more than just collagen. There are collagen generating vitamins/minerals/nutrients in it

I live in Australia. There is no boots here.
Where does your derma scan machine look like?

I read some dermatologist have really high tech devices which even scan your face & tell you your skin & tell you how "old" you are.

To be honest, I could not gauge it fairly as there was several things happening in my life. Buying my first home, renovating, preparing my wedding & moving, which was stressful. To judge a product with unbiased opinion, it is better to introduce 1 new thing at a time to assess. I was doing several treatments at the beautician & dermatologist. The good skin I was encountering could be caused by either of the treatments.

Only got a 0.2mm derma stamp & tried it once around the eyes.
I have ordered 0.5mm derma roll & am even more excited to try now than you tell me your personal experience. Thank you for sharing it, it gives me more motivation to "poke" myself with a lot of needles.

Have you tried BioSil?
Their pills are backed by science. I looked a do can get a liquid version for under $30 for 2 months. Their product is patented & proven to improve hair, skin& nails.

Currently, I am taking diatomaceous earth. It has natural silica in it. I take it more for internal cleansing, weight loss & detox. The stronger nails experienced is just a pleasant side effect.
I am sure it will help my hair & skin too.

I have also tried equisetum, horsetail too with very positive results but expensive & I did not continue.
preciousia
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Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:44 am      Reply with quote
Thank you tigerlily009 & Lin1313 for sharing that "collagen induction therapy" is dermarolling and microneedling.
I've heard about it about 10 years ago but did not try as the aesthetician did not explain it well.

There is no research to support that dermaroller CAN help collagen induction although it is implied. There are research to prove that the dermastamp and dermapen can improve scarring. It was encouraging to know that that there was some medical research on this.
Before embarking on microneedling, reading multiple reviews of the forum is really encouraging in place of the lack of medical studies.
Thank you to everyone for sharing. Very Happy


-----------------------------------------------


Just sharing my personal experiences with the liquid collagen generating drinks and collagen inducing drinks as Lin1313 & ATester was asking.

I had taken taken the "collagen generating" drinks approximately 7-9 years ago when they first emerged. They contain hydrolysed collagen along with other nutrients to help generate collagen production. During the same time, i just completed a course of lasers costing nearly 5 digits with a leading dermatologist. Lasers are proven to generate lasers like fraxel and co2. As there was many different external stimuli, i was not able to attribute the good skin i had to the collagen drink.

At the same time, i was undergoing a lot of stress embarking on a new chapter in my life, getting married, buying and renovating our home. The costs of the collagen did not bother me and i consumed it for approximately 1 year. I will take a little bottle every night. the size is approximately 15-50ml. It was a Japanese brand i consumed. I did not continue as i relocated overseas for work and had no access to the liquid collagen.

Conclusion:
When i take silica, my paper thin nails are immediately harder and stronger. I did not notice anything special with collagen, perhaps collagen is a much longer process. The collagen generation from liquid "collagen generating drink" i consumed was negligible. I did not have any dermascan like what Imedeen provide to compare the before and after results.


Based on my dermatologist assessment of my skin, i was a success case from the lasers and using his skincare range. The clinic has before and after photos of the improvement.

I am always mistaken for a decade or more younger than my real age. I am in my late thirties now and get often mistaken for my early twenties.
To continue to cheat father time, i am looking at ways to anti-age especially some fine lines are creeping in.


-----------------------------------------------

Please do not misinterpret, let me say it again,
I DID NOT SAY COLLAGEN DRINKS WORK.
I believe in the synergy of good skincare, healthy nutrition for good skin.

TheresaMary wrote:
Could you provide links to studies as
you are making this sound scientific but all I have read suggests that there is little to any proof you can reabsorb collagen because the molecules are too big to pass through cell walls.


I am taken quite aback in this forum by one to "provide medical reports" to justify my own personal experience, is this what EDS usually require before i can post any personal experiences? i have tried to justify and provided helpful hints if i can help. I am not a doctor and i do not read medical journals. I actually went to search for reports to satisfy the request.
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Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:16 am      Reply with quote
My sister purchased a baby quasar about three years ago. She used it on average 3x/week. She use it with her cosmeceuticals. You might want to try mild microneedling, followed by application of a cosmeceutical, followed by your LED. The LED therapy doesn't make huge transformations. It keeps the skin healthy and slows the aging process. If you haven't microneedled before, keep that and your use of cosmeceuticals in moderation. Both of these are creating an inflammatory state (Retin-a or copper peptides). The key is to do just enough to kick-start collagen production, then let the skin rest and repair.
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Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:14 pm      Reply with quote
shooterfish
thanks or sharing.
i have seen medical studies that combined LED with microneedling.

Have come across a new medical study from the Journal of Cosmetics Dermatology Vol 14 Issue 4 which have completely shaken up the stance of many experts.

Title: The effect of oral collagen peptide supplementation on skin moisture and the dermal collagen network: evidence from an ex vivo model and randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trials

It was found that those who taken liquid collagen have shown significant improvements in the elasticity as well as thickness of their skin.

The supplement they consumed was collagen peptides of fish origin (Peptan®F) and porcine origin (Peptan®P) with an average molecular weight of 2000–5000 Da.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jocd.12174/abstract
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Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:53 pm      Reply with quote
Hi all, can anyone please recommend a good Dermaroller as i have used them in the past without much success also which Vitamin A cream i.e strengh,is the best.
Thank you in advance.
preciousia
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Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:28 pm      Reply with quote
Tjsinspain:

i have not bought from this website but it was recommended to me.
owndoc.com
They have been around for a while and have good instructions. They sell all the products relating to dermarolling / microneedling.

Vitamin A cream will depend on your skin condition and sensitivity. You could look at a concentrated form called tretinoin or retinol.
More info here: http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/retinoids.html

Note that vitamin A can cause skin sensitivity and is photo-sensitive. You should only use it at night.

Vitamin A increases the deposition of collagen, assist wound healing, repairs the cellular structure of the epidermis...it is an excellent anti-oxidant to add to your regime.

You should see a doctor for prescription if possible. Some of us buy ours online without a prescription. If you are unsure, i suggest you start at a lower strength first. see thread here:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=53574
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