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Wed May 18, 2005 4:26 pm  |
I'd like the advice of some of the people out there who work on these products.
I know that certain products work best (or are only stable) in different environments (e.g. vit C at acidic conditions and peptides at more basic conditions because they denature at low pH). But what research has been done on the ordered use of actives? I know that some things help either actively or passively with penetration but might some things used together harm the action of each other?
I know Retin A helps penetration of other compounds and thus can have a positive interactive effect with many other actives but there are so many! Some products seem to throw everything in.
Co-enzyme Q
Retinol and Retinoic acid family
DMAE
Vit C forms
AHAs
BHAs
Peptides
Cu-peptise
Minerals
Other plant phytochemicals (e.g. green tea extract)
Estriol and progesterones
etc. etc. etc.
What should and shouldn't go together???
Might it be best to alternate single or groups of active components on a weekly or biweekly basis? Is anything known about this?
Thanks. |
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Wed May 18, 2005 6:09 pm |
The only 2 I know are:
- no retin-a and bp at the same time
- no vit c and copper at the same time
Also if using a low ph bha product, it is best to wait 30 minutes before apply other products. If you apply other product and raises the ph then the bha is not as effective. |
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~~ super-sensitive, dry, dermatitis prone, rosacea/northern calif ~~ |
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Wed May 18, 2005 6:20 pm |
well, it really depends on the product you are making, it's use (desired effect) and the ingredients. From the list you gave, I would avoid putting the minerals & phytochemicals in with the vitamin C. I believe in a seperate vitamin c treatment, adding in other plant actives & especially minerals could accelrate oxidation. Also I would avoid putting a retinol deriviative in a formula with AHA's or BHA's could be too drying & irritating for many skin types.
One thing that you need to keep in mind is saturation vs absorption. When you formulate a treatment product, you want to keep the number of actives limited, and use them in high concentrations. If you add everything on your list into one formula, there is only so much that your skin can absorb & use before becoming saturated & not accepting any more.
If you are just adding these ingredients into an existing lotion or serum, you also have to take the oil to water ratio into consideration. If you add in a bunch of water soluble actives, for example, you may disrupt the o/w balance & lose your emulsion. This can either end up in a runny, watery product, or your emulsion might seperate.
What were you thinking of trying to make? |
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Pure Skin Formulations, LLC | http://www.psfskincare.com |
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Wed May 18, 2005 6:22 pm |
| Ditto - I'm curious too, since we all seem to be product junkies. I've often wondered, besides the compatibility of products, if the mere *application*, i.e. rubbing, of one over the other can diminish the effectiveness of lower layers. Bad Bird seems to be the guru of sunscreens and has commented extensively regarding degradation of active ingredients when used with other products, but I imagine the same principles may generally apply to all topicals. A simple approach could be to stick with one product line, if it can be assumed that compatibility is addressed when developing various formulae. But that's a tough rule to follow!!! |
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Wed May 18, 2005 6:52 pm |
Thanks for the replies so far. It was a general question based on products I've considered buying but seemed to contain "the kitchen sink". I also wan't limiting it to that list (I used Skin Eternal's Hyaluronic acid serum for example). I'm just trying to learn general info that isn't available in articles so few of these ingredients have been tested in peer reviewed publications. There are so many questions on how they affect the stability and absorbability of each other component but also on a cellular level whether they act synergistically or antagonistically. I have a few lines and am mostly interested in preventing sagging and jowls.
I've been very happy with vit-C (use Skinceuticals c-20 and Cellex C) and make my own both water base and oil based in aloe and vit E oil. I've also got DMAE liquid (food supplement) and have been wondering what to mix it with. In tests under my eyes it does seem to do good things in terms of the firmness of the under eye area (I've used it 2X/day under my eyes with grapeseed oil on top and using a pinch test the skin seems to bounce back rather quickly now). I have used prepared glycolic acid products. I now mix my own with products from The Personal Formulator. I do neutralize after 3 minutes and use an aloe/allantoin solution to because it is soothing.
I know it's very general but I've on;y been using these skin products for about a year and am learning as I go. |
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