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Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:15 pm  Quote |
I found an article on MEDLINE that convinces me my next product should be a buffered glycolic acid cream. Doukis et al. Harvard/Mass. General,
Photochemistry and Photobiology, 74 (1), 2001, pg. 96.
They used two un-named commerical glycolic acid creams (buffered and 4-8% Gly) and applied to arm skin every day for 21 days. Periodically they used a laser technique to assess new cell growth and found little regrowth or change in skin thickness in the control group but a linear increase with time in the change in thickness using the glycolic acid. Also the rate of change increased with increasing glycolic acid concentration. |
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Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:35 pm Quote |
Thanks Sharky for posting the results of that article.
I can add that there was another study by Dr. Stiller and colleagues from the Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston studied 74 women aged 40-70. Low concentrations of AHA (between 5-15 percent) were applied, The percentage of patients receiving a 1 grade improvement from a scale of 0 to 9 was 76 percent glycolic acid, 71 percent lactic acid, and 40 percent for placebo vehicle.
So, AHA is very valuable, but don't use it too aggressively or the skin may "hit the Hayflick limit" earlier than it should. |
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Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:24 pm Quote |
Hi Sharky,
Thanks for the research.
I've not tried glycolic acid but am hoping to start soon. Do you think a combination (alternating) of GA and retinol would be too much?
Also, what is the value of buffered GA compared to low pH GA?  |
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Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:02 pm Quote |
Others have stated better than I on threads here that frequent use of low pH peels can lead to damage of the top layer of your skin and thinning rather than thickening. Depending on the sensitivity of your skin you should only use a low pH glycolic peel with >10% glycolic acid evry 10 days to three weeks. To gauge your sensitivity to a product put a bit under you chin. If it stings immediately it is probably too strong and you have sensitive skin. I leave a peel product on for 3 minutes.
I haven't yet bought a buffered product. It will be the next thing I buy. If someone has a specific suggestion I'd appreciate it. I was considering the MD Formulations intenive that also has vit A. I know my skin is not sensitive compared to the comments people here have made about products. I'm more bothered by heavy creams that clog pores. |
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Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:29 pm Quote |
| Do you think using a daily cleanser, like MD Formulations, would thin your skin over time? This is at 12%...should this be used only once every few weeks too? |
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~normal but prone to dryness~slightly sensitive~usually clear~totm breakouts~mid 20s~ |
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Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:39 pm Quote |
Hi, Sharky.
I use the Age Limit AHA serum that Cellularskinrx offers. It is a 10% glycolic/lactic acid mix that is "married" to arginine. The site info says that the arginine controls the delivery of the AHA to the skin over a 17 minute period so no "spike" in irritation occurs. On the alternate nights when I don't use Retin-A, I use the Age Limit. AHA's are just so wonderful for smoothing the skin.
Just a reminder for all who are considering AHA's. Remember that sun sensitivity occurs as a result of AHA use so sunscreen use is 100% required! |
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Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:18 pm Quote |
| Sharky, which brand of 10%+ unbuffered glycolic acid cream (applied every 10 days) would you recommend? |
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SugarFreeSheila.com |
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Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:59 am Quote |
I'm making my own now but I think that Avon Anew 10% glycolic with enzymes is a good product and inexpensive. I'm making my own now (ingredients from the personal formulator because I wanted to go to higher strengths.
Faith: I also thought that every day products were bad (and I asked that question on a thread here) but the literature seems to support everyday concentrations of 4-20% as long as they are buffered to a pH of 3.5-4.5 depending on concentration and your skin. (An everyday product should not make your skin sting or get red). |
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Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:56 pm Quote |
Sharky,
Would you mind posting your recipe for your homemade glycolic acid cream on the DIY link???
I'd be very interested in seeing your formulation and would appreciate it as I'm sure others would also.
Thanks! |
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Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:45 pm Quote |
| Dianne, you are a mind-reader. I was about to post in DIY on how to fix a glycolic serum. |
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Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:31 pm Quote |
Thanks Sharky!!!  MD formulations is 3.8%, and it does not cause any reddness or stinging on me, so I am going to keep using it without worry! |
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~normal but prone to dryness~slightly sensitive~usually clear~totm breakouts~mid 20s~ |
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Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:25 pm Quote |
So, are you guys saying that it's okay to use glycolic acid on a regular basis as long as it's not too high a percentage? Has anyone found any reputable research that mentions and refutes the "hayflick theory" I've read about on other threads?
I've always liked what AHAs, particularly glycolic acid, does to the texture of my skin (can't tolerate Renova, etc.), but I've gotten nervous about using it lately. I've generally used MD Forte, and then graduated to their Skin Rejuvenation Lotion with retinol but Bad Bird said it's less effective when the two are combined (unless I misunderstood). |
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Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:19 am Quote |
I will MEDLINE research this. I know the arguement about telomers and the number of times a cell can divide. I do not think people really understand what they are talking about in relation to skin. Also, there are already things known to extend cell life. Green tea extract, Resveratrol and the diabetes drug Metformin are a few, but the studies are preliminary. Continuous agressive peeling is definitely bad. Slower stuff doesn't have a huge cell turnover effect and I do not think there would be a problem.
There is also the arguement about muscle relaxers. I would not use Botox for two reason, first you have to keep up a painfull, expensive procedure and it doesn't work on all areas of the face you could end up looking really funny. Second there are good studies showing muscle atrophy after Botox. If you're doing it for 10-20 years frequently what is your face going to look like after continuous muscle atrophy. The people who say no problem say that it is localized (i.e. if you only use it for frown lines the effect is very local) but many people use it all over the face.
I will experiment with cream recipes. I have a high power sonicator so can make micelles very easily. I currently do not make a cream with glycolic acid, I just use the glycolic acid peel which is just slightly buffered glycolic acid in water which I make up fresh every time (pH=2-2.5) I would not recommend anyone doing this. I use triethanol amine and ethanol for buffers. I'll be busy for a few weeks but I'll experiment with a good AHA cream that uses home equipment. I think the recipe on the Personal Formulator site has too many ingredients that are not necessary. |
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Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:33 pm Quote |
| Thanks sharky. Dianne just posted a recipe for glycolic cream on DIY. But, please, let us know what you come up with. I am very interested. |
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Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:45 am Quote |
Hi I am 39 and have just started using the md formulations skincare kit for combination skin. My concerns are blocked and open pores, to rid myself of the blackheads. However I want to look after my skin in the way of wrinkles also. I have just had a peel and was wondering how often you should have these, or if I could do these myself at home. The one she used was 40% but I understand you can build these up to 70%? My blocked pores are round the side of my nose and chin, though I have visible open pores on my cheesk and forehead. I also have a large chicken pox scar in the centre of my forehead so am quite conscious. I use the facial lotion only on an evening, the moisturising serum I was not too keen on by MD so I continue to use Dermalogica skin smoothing cream.
This may be too much information all at once, but I am getting married next year and want to look the best I can. Any advice gratefully appreciated as this is an expensive business and everyone seems to tell you different depending on the product they have to sell!
Here's hoping  |
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Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:11 am Quote |
| monalisasmiler wrote: |
Hi I am 39 and have just started using the md formulations skincare kit for combination skin. My concerns are blocked and open pores, to rid myself of the blackheads. However I want to look after my skin in the way of wrinkles also. I have just had a peel and was wondering how often you should have these, or if I could do these myself at home. The one she used was 40% but I understand you can build these up to 70%? My blocked pores are round the side of my nose and chin, though I have visible open pores on my cheesk and forehead. I also have a large chicken pox scar in the centre of my forehead so am quite conscious. I use the facial lotion only on an evening, the moisturising serum I was not too keen on by MD so I continue to use Dermalogica skin smoothing cream.
This may be too much information all at once, but I am getting married next year and want to look the best I can. Any advice gratefully appreciated as this is an expensive business and everyone seems to tell you different depending on the product they have to sell!
Here's hoping |
First of all, congratulations on your upcoming wedding! For pore congestion, you will probably get a lot of recommendations for Dr H cleansing cream. For tone and clarity, I would recommend a Vit C serum. There are many available. If you do a search, you will find many threads about them. For wrinkles, you may want to try Janson Beckett. The skin prep and the ADCE get some great reviews. |
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~normal but prone to dryness~slightly sensitive~usually clear~totm breakouts~mid 20s~ |
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Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:26 am Quote |
Thanks very much for the information  , I shall investigate further |
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Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:43 pm Quote |
Monalisa Congrats! I second what faith says about vit C serum it will make your skin brighter looking in just a few weeks.
Please do not go out and put 70% glycolic on your face you could get serious scarring. I do use a 35% solution controlled to a pH of 2 to treat a particular deep line (my only "wrinkle") but I do not recommend high than 20% at home unless you are very experienced.
Salicylic acid is very good at loosening blackheads as are scrund as the Dr. H one recommended by faith. I'm older and have just a few I use prescription Tazorac which works very well. |
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