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Retin A and Retinol - I wasn't confused but now I am.
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Molly
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:49 am      Reply with quote
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Retinoic acid reduces skin oil and has well-proven wrinkle reduction actions. Retinol tends to increase skin oil and has only very modest anti-wrinkle actions.


I'm confused. I always thought the above was true, but lately EDS users keep referring to Retinol treatments as if they do the same as Retin A. The Green Cream 6 Retinol treatment on the Diana Yvonne site gives the same impression, ie. it makes you dry and peel and increases skin turnover dramatically and reduces wrinkles.

Are we just mixing our terms or is it that using higher percentages changes the action in some way?

If these 'retinol' treatments are in some way different to previous Retina A treatments then I might give them a go, but I did the Retin A thing already and wasn't satisfied with the results so I want to know if it's the same or not.
betterat40
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Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:12 am      Reply with quote
Retinol is the weakest version of the Vitamin A derivatives for skin. In descending order of strength, tretinoin, retinaldehyde, retinol. The latter two have to be converted into tretinoin first, by your skin's metabolic processes. In that process, strength and effectiveness is lost. Tretinoin is a prescription Vitamin A derivative, the other two are not. They are included in lots of OTC formulations. Green Cream by lindasy.com is the highest concentration of retinol (I think) available on the market.

As for retinol making skin oily yet Retin-A not, I'm not sure about that. All three increase cell turnover to various degrees.
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:56 am      Reply with quote
Betterat40, do you think the Green cream has a higher concentration than the Skinceuticals Retinol (I believe it is 1%, not sure.) I was toying with the idea of trying it, but maybe I will try the Green cream instead. I don't notice too much of a difference with the over the counter retinyl palmitate products but I definitely noticed an improvement with Differin, which I used years ago. Just don't want to have to go through a dermatologist to get it.

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Debra
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:16 am      Reply with quote
Great topic....as with Molly, I'm in the process of re-evaluating my use of a retinol/retin A product.

betterat40---thank you for the info. I would appreciate any other information/feedback that you can provide on this subject.

I used Tretinoin for six months, along with the entire Obagi range. I experienced the normal reaction....peeling, dryness...but I stuck with it, and experienced positive results. Three months ago, I decided to give Skinceuticals a shot, and began using the C E Ferulic in the AM and the Retinol 1% cream at night, every other night, alternating with the Line Defense. I believe the vitamin C serum is producing extremely positive results, but not sold on the Retinol Night Cream/Line Defense regime.

To summarize, while the effects of the Tretinoin were a pain at times, I believe the results were greater. Now I'm trying to decide if I want to go back to the Tretinoin, or try another retinol product.

Thanks, Molly, for posting this....I'll be keeping an eye on this thread to learn more facts on retinol/retin A, and people's experiences with the different products!

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Lolli
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:42 am      Reply with quote
This *is* a great topic, I've learned a lot! Thanks for posting it Molly and Betterat40 for all the valueable info!

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Mualani
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:37 pm      Reply with quote
Molly, if the Retin-A didn't work out for you, it's unlikely the OTC retinoids would either because they aren't as strong. Did you give Retin-A enough time? Since it works at a very deep level in your skin, it takes time to see the results.

BTW I read a study a few years ago which said Tazorac was more effective at treating wrinkles than Retin-A (sorry I can't find the link now), so that's another option you may want to try.
betterat40
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Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:01 pm      Reply with quote
I think the skinceuticals 1% is actually the highest OTC version of retinol you can get. So if you are looking for the strongest version, I'd go with that over the Green Cream.

I agree that if you are not getting results with your retinol right now, better to move to a true tretinoin like RAM or Retin-A. Just remember to go easy at first until your skin adjusts to it.

I, too, have heard that Tazorac has good results on wrinkles as well but I thought it was even more irritating than Retin-A. Could be wrong on that one though.
Molly
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Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:04 am      Reply with quote
Hi all,
In fact I did get wrinkle reduction with the Retin A and I was using prescription strength for well over a year with zero peeling and only mild irritation with the first couple of uses. I didn't like the results for other reasons; firstly I looked like as white as a ghost, which I think is most unappealing, secondly the texture of my skin seemed 'not my own' and thirdly I felt constantly vulnerable to sun damage. If it had totally eliminated all lines I might have stuck with it, but for a partial result the negatives outweighed the positives.

But I'm still confused! I've been using CP's with Retinol on and off for years, mostly in the winter. And I can really vouch for the fact that it makes my skin feel more naturally moisturised (Beijing is a real test for that) and Skinbio's site says that Retinol and Retin A are not the same
http://www.skinbio.com/moisturizers.html#Retinol%20in%20Squalane
Quote:
Confusion over Retinol and Retinoic acid. The cosmetic industry tries to create confusion over the actions of retinol (retinyl palmitate, vitamin A) and those of retinoic acid (used in Retin-A and Renova). Even though the molecules are very similar and can be easily converted to the other molecule, their biochemical actions are often opposite. A biochemical analogy is that one key (or molecule) opens a lock while a very similar molecule, like a defective key, jams the lock.

....so I still don't know what's what?
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