Home Use Soft Laser-- Beurer, Nulase or Vitagnost?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:59 am

I've heard some amazing results after using soft laser daily at home. Shopping for one but dunno which one is better.

Both Beurer an Vitagnost are German made.
Is Nulase made in USA?
Which one is better?
Any comments? Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:10 pm

I'm really interested in getting one too and am confused by the choice as well. Would love to hear if anyone's had experience with them. Smile

free skin care · Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:45 pm

I've tried Solitone Infinite Energy laser at a spa/ salon. 10x = one full treatment. I did 5x already and so far, haven't really noticed any visible results. Sometimes, I don't understand all this laser stuff. Does it really work or the results vary among the ppl? Anyway, anyone try this b4? It claims to help with acne, allergies, pigmentation, and broken capillaries.

free skin care · Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:45 pm

Now, I could be wrong on this ... but I find it very difficult to believe that these things are "true" lasers ... or could do much of anything. They run on two AAA batteries for heaven's sake! Laughing

I remember a few years ago when there was a gizmo that was kind of like a mini-stun gun. It too was supposed to stimulate things to erase fine lines, tighten skin ... yada, yada, yada. To the best of my knowledge, those gizmos didn't do most of those things either.

I'm always very skeptical of things that seem to promise too much ...

Now, as I said at the outset, I could be wrong ... and certainly posting the question here is a great start to your research. I'm interested to see what other comments you get.

If my step-daughter wasn't away, I'd ask her about it since she does laser hair removal and micro-dermabrasion in a medical clinic and is quite knowledgable on lasers in general. However, I did mention it to her business associate who said that she doubted it could be effective at doing anything running on AAA batteries.

Just my two cents ... and my natural cynicism coming to the fore.

Mary

free skin care · Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:15 am

this was brought up a while ago. I think the common conclusion was that they were basically a waste of money, and like hj eluded to, not powerful enough to be of any use.

I haven't used one though, so it would be intersting to get more feed back.

Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:17 am

It has been my experience that low level laser therapy does indeed work. LLLT is used for celluar regeneration & healing. The FDA in the U.S.has now approved LLLT for muscle repair. The same principles apply to the skin. True laser light from a real soft laser increases cellular ATP (cellular energy) by up to 150%. This increase helps to produce collagen and healing attributes in the derma of the skin.

I would try a product called "Soft Touch Laser" made by a U.S. company. It comes with a supporting skin care line that reacts to laser light. I have been very pleased by the results. www.nulase.com

I hope this helps. All you sketpics out there just do alittle more research on LLLT. Also Before you buy make sure the device is a "true medical low level laser" After some research you will discover that these little devices are good for healing and clearing up alot of different health and beauty conditions.

Good skin to all!

Mary RN

free skin care · Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:22 am

The power output of these lasers is very low (look at the power output of the source and the conversion efficiency is low). I've tried to get the manufacturers to give me power stats but none have answered my e-mails. I work with lasers in my labs.

If you look at the research on laser/skin interactions on MEDLINE you'll see that nonablative (where you're not blasting off a skin layer) treatment works somewhat. Most of the studies are with much higher power lasers (many power levels, pulse frequency, CW and wavelength) for 2-20 treatments; these should benefits but not necessarily large benefits in all cases. It might be argued that frequent treatment at a lower level could cause
good effects but at a very low level. However the "face lasers" being sold are likely not much stronger than the laser pointers that sell for $10 (why else are none of the companies willing to state what the power output of their devices is?).

I think some time in the future some sort of light treatment might be a real viable alternative. (It's not clear what role the coherence of the light plays (i.e. why a laser other than having high power at a single wavelength). The effect on skin is likely wavelength dependent and that specifically has not been well studied (although the red of a He-Ne laser is being shown to help skin lesions etc.).

Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:37 pm

The laser in your doctors office is not much different than a laser pointer either. The technology is the same. The difference is in the quality of the diode and the power and the wavelength. Laser pointers are cheap low output (about 1mw) and last a few hundred hours. Their wavelength is also all over the place. Most of the Soft Lasers for home use are Medical Grade doides calibrated at about 4.5mw with a focused wavelength of 660nm to effect skin tissue. Most of the time they also include a focusing optical lens to effect skin tissue. So they are much different than a cheap laser pointer for 10 bucks. Medical Grade low level laser diodes are also the same diodes used by the military for target positioning. So don't think a "laser pointer" will do anything for your skin, you will be wasting your time. Buy a Medical Grade Diode.

Mary9393

free skin care · Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:32 pm

Okay ... I admit it ... I'm confused! Laughing

Can a "medical grade diode" operate efficiently on 2 AA batteries? Two AA batteries last in my toothbrush for about a week ... at which point the device slows down ... doesn't work as well ... yada, yada, yada. So I find it difficult to believe that a laser device that runs on 2 AA batteries can, in fact, work efficiently at optimum power.

I don't pretend to understand the electronics ... or the laser technology ... but I would expect a "medical grade" laser to use household current. Again I could be wrong ... but ... after seeing hundreds of products and devices over the years promising to do wonderous things ... only for those devices and products to be replaced by newer, better, more effective devices and products ad nauseum ... I'm an understandable skeptic.

I've spoken to people in the business of using lasers for a variety of purposes ... including my step daughter who does laser hair removal and microdermabrasion in a medical clinic ... and she was dubious. She too thought that a device running on 2 AA batteries couldn't be very much more effective than a laser pointer.

And ... is the "low level" laser of which you speak the same thing as a "soft" laser as referenced by the original post?

Mary

Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:50 pm

Well you will find that most "softlasers" are powered by AAA batteries. Beurer, E-trans, Nulase and even the very expensive brands Q1000 (runs about $3000 bucks and are powered by a battery pack) I think the reason is once it is powered by a/c there is a danger of spiking and there are alot of other FDA issues devices powered by A/C present. So im sure these Companies opt to play it save. But Look at it this way. A good IPL treatment will cost you $300-500 bucks, a good skin care product will cost you $80 bucks...so $150 to have low level laser threapy device that you own, is really not that bad.

I suggest you do some research on low level laser therapy and all the applications you can really use it for. I think you will find that these little devices (powered by AAA batteries) are good for alot more than just your skin. A good place to start iswww.laser.nu this is the most comprehensive information on LLLT (low level laser therapy)on the web.

The FDA has already approved these type of devices for Muscle repair, and I hear they may approve them for Hair growth(www.hairmax.net)in the near furture. so I would assume skin care is not to far behind.

My personal experience is -they work. Nulase a US companywww.nulase.com is my favorite. Nulase sells a skin care line that reacts to laser light for even better results. I think this company and their products rock! My Skin has never looked better. And while I may understand why, ultimatly is just about that - Results! Beurer, A German company is a good one too. But they dont have a skin care line.

Good Luck,

Mary

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:53 am

Do you work for Nulase by any chance?

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:35 am

Thanks for posting that question yusufosman. I found myself wondering the exact same thing. Laughing

Mary

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:55 am

I put this question to my med/spa which also partners with a plastic surgery center. Lasers are different than IPL's (since I just had an IPL last week). They say you cannot get enough energy from these "gadgets" on a consistent level to experience any real benefits. They said these gadgets come out all the time touting derm comparable results. That's just their opinion, but thought I would throw it in. You can actually buy the machines used in offices but they run upwards from about 3-5,000 for a basic used machine. If you want to take a chance and try one, I would ask about a good return policy. I look forward to hearing if it works.

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:57 pm

i saw a similar machine on ideal world a short while ago. as a test to show their viewers it works, they used the machine at the corners and insides of the eyebrow by lifting those areas and holding with the machine for 5-10secs. the did this on one eye and not the other. indeed of course i was astonished because her treated eye was immediately lifted, open, she looked younger, an arch in her eyebrow, fabulous. her other eye - well old and crepy.

wow i thought, i must have this machine. at £50 i can't go wrong.

of course i tried the same thing with my finger and had the same results.

Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:49 pm

LOL No i dont work for them. But I am an RN and Im aware of Doctors opinions on various "alternative health" products. I would suggest you do some research on Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT). www.laser.nu is a great site. There is alot of research from all over the world about increased collagen production and healing.

I dont work for any laser company but I do believe in LLLT.

My husband uses it on his psoriasis on his arm and it is the only treatment that clears it up.

Mary

free skin care · Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:37 pm

I agree with what you said in your response but it is besides the point. Beam quality probably does not matter though because it refers to spatial and temporal uniformity.

If you are not a sales rep and have the laser you can post the maximum power output that is listed on a plaque on every laser (even a pointer).

There is a good review article available on MEDLINE "nonablative Laser and Light Therapies for Skin Rejuvenation" Kin and Geronemus,
Arch. Facial Plastic Surgery, Nov./Dec. 2004.
The journal is a well reviewed AMA one and although these guys are funded by the laser companies they seem reputable. WEB references are NOT reputable.

Even for long term use you need a reasonable power level lower for CW than pulsed but probably tenths of watts (several hundred mW is probably the lowest level useful). A laser pointer is 10mW. The best wavelength is not clear; for some applications longer wavelengths seem to be preferred but 500-1400nm all show positive effects. The studies are not yet good enough to distinguish.

If someone wants to sell a "medical grade" laser for facial improvement they should post power output on their WEB site. I suspect that they are not fancy in any way just cheapo diodes packaged fancily otherwise why is this info not available?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:59 pm

I'm not sure if you know this or not but, a Laser Pointer runs off of a watch battery; The Home Lasers run of AAA or AA batteries. There is quite a significant diff. in power.

free skin care · Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:06 am

yusufosman, what did you buy, the one that you said didn't work? Derma Wand or OxyLight?

free skin care · Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:28 am

Mary or anyone who owns one of these, what is the power output of your laser. For things sold in the US there must be a plate that give max power output. I was not able to get an answer for this from any of the manufactureres via e-mail. That makes me very suspicious.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:45 am

Has anyone purchased from softlasers-com website? The explanation on How It Works section is good but I want to make sure they have good service before I buy from them.
They have a Ther Infrared Softlaser. It is 5mw & 780nm. ??? Has anyone tried one of these? They say it works for pain and it come with another Red laser too. If anyone has purchased ones of these I would really like to know how it works especially for joint or elbow pain.

BTW: I don’t know if this helps anyone but my friend bought a Beurer Softlaser from the Canadian Shopping Channel for her acne and she says it really worked for her.

Thanks Lauren

Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:14 am

I just bought an etrans laser from their site and it came in two days! I'll let you know how it works.

Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:52 am

Just wanted people to know that I took the plunge and I bought the infrared softlaser from softlasers dot com about 2 weeks ago. They have a kit which contains both the 780 infrared and 660 red softlaser called the Ther Duo.

I called them first to find out the difference between the 780 infrared softlaser and the 660 red softlaser. The person who answered the phone said that the infrared softlaser goes twice as deep and is better suited for pain, muscle aches, and deep wrinkles, while the red one is better for skin conditions.

I thought I would only use the red one but so far I have really only been using the infrared softlaser. It has really worked great for chronic pain I have had in my fingers and wrist. I didn’t expect it to work but I just thought I would try it to see what would happen. I just ribbed it over my finger joints for about 10 minutes. At first I only felt a little better but after about 20 minutes the pain in my joints reduced to almost nothing. The pain did come back the next day but it was not as strong so I started using it everyday while watching TV and so far my wrist and fingers are at least 90% better then they were before. I have been using the lasers for about 7 days so far.

One thing I don’t like about the Ther softlaser is that it shuts off after 4 minutes automatically. I will be rubbing my hand and look down and find out it has turned off. I guess it’s a safety feature and not such a big deal. I am getting used to checking it ever once in a while and when the LED blinks I just turn it off and on again.

I haven’t really tried the 660 laser yet but I will write a post so people know how it works.
Lauren

free skin care · Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:34 am

Wonder how this compares with our Baby Q?

Sat Sep 16, 2006 12:13 pm

Sharky, here is what the Beurer Laser says on the device:

CE 0344

Danger
LASER RADIATION
Avoid Direct Eye Exposure
------------------------
Class 3 Laser Product
635-670nm Pmax = <5mW

(although under the English label there is a German label and the Pmax on that one is 6mW)

free skin care · Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:12 pm

Any new info here? This thread is interesting. I would love to own a home laser that really did something. Sharky, any more opinions considering the power output numbers given by previous posters?

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