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Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:16 am  |
Yesterday I had my 2nd VISIA analysis done at a local cosmetic clinic. Before that I had it done in 2015. The results are somewhat puzzling.
VISIA skin analysis grades your results to others of the same age and skin type. It measures spots, wrinkles, texture, pores, UV spots, brown spots, red areas, and porphyrins. Most clinics offer this service free of charge. The higher the number, the better the results.
Some facts about me:
I have been using Retin A/Tretinoin/Stieva A 3-7 times per week for 13 years. Occasionally, I had a break from it for 1-2 weeks but not more than that.
I avoid the sun as much as I can. I would say that I spend much less time outside than an average person as I exercise in the gym only, shop only in malls, I don't like walking, etc. I use sunscreen with SPF 50 every day all year round. I live in a country where winters are long and summers are cloudy.
Results:
As one can see from the pictures, the number of UV spots significantly increased. The number of brown spots has increased as well. The number of wrinkles also increased (pics not shown.)
Conclusions:
Based on the results of the VISIA analysis, I can assume the following:
1. Retin A was contributing to the photoaging of the skin by increasing the skin's photosensitivity.
2. Retin A was not helpful for treating the photodamage.
3. The sunblocks I used (EltaMD, Paula's Choice, etc.) provided unsatisfactory UVA protection.  |
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:11 am |
I've never had one but I wonder if the VISIA machine is like a DEXA scan where different machines will give different readings?
Is it comparing you to all the others that have used that particular machine or is it pulling comparisions from every person that has used a VISIA machine anywhere and everywhere?
I would think as more people are aware of sun damage and especially if they have had cosmetic surgery of any kind that gets rid of their sundamage, the bar is always being set higher.
I think to have a valid comparison, you'd have compare yourself with women that have had the same treatments done.
Also, was your reading in 2015 at the same time of year?
Did you have facial peels prior to 2015 and have you stopped in the last three years?
I assume you removed all makeup before you have one? I'm always surprized how much dirt I can pickup with a pad saturated with alcohol. |
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:44 am |
| MaryClaire wrote: |
I've never had one but I wonder if the VISIA machine is like a DEXA scan where different machines will give different readings?
No.
Is it comparing you to all the others that have used that particular machine or is it pulling comparisions from every person that has used a VISIA machine anywhere and everywhere?
I don't believe that there are different types of VISIA machines.
I think to have a valid comparison, you'd have compare yourself with women that have had the same treatments done.
I compared myself in 2015 to myself in 2018. It seems like the UV damage has increased in 3 years.
Also, was your reading in 2015 at the same time of year?
The UV spots are in the deeper level of the skin. I don't think that the time of the year is a relevant factor.
Did you have facial peels prior to 2015 and have you stopped in the last three years?
I have never stopped facial peels.
I assume you removed all makeup before you have one? I'm always surprized how much dirt I can pickup with a pad saturated with alcohol.
Yes, I had makeup removed. Although, I don't use much.
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Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:28 pm |
Well that is discouraging to say the least!
Here I thought retin A was supposed to help reverse sundamage and was the gold standard for antiaging! Are you going to stop using Retin A? It makes me wonder if we're doing more harm than good or do you think the face peels factored in on this? |
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Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:44 am |
Hi RussianSunshine (great name by the way!).
I have been in exactly the same place as you - and want to share some things that I learned. For one, when the VISIA machines first came out I learned about them at a beauty show I was at. I spoke with my derm about them and was surprised as he was rather dismissive of it. I had it done there and then. My derm said that the information that they use as a comparison is somewhat vague. At first I thought he was just rubbishing it for no reason, but then I started to try and find out some information on the individuals they use for their results.
For example, they say that it compares to others who are the same age and ethnicity as you. But it doesn't give you detailed information about those that it compared it to. My derm argues that lifestyle, fitness, health are all equally important factors. So as one ages, the data that gets compared is often not as favourable as when we are young. So when I had it done 3 years later - I was horrified because like you it showed me worse off. I couldn't figure that out. I had done all the same things like you - in using sun protection, regular Retin A usage etc. So that got me thinking and I inquired to the company for information about the test subjects of my age group. They were very slow in responding, and when they did they never really answered my questions. I did notice though that after that I kind of got discouraged and just forewent the machine. I then had it done again back in 2016 (only 2 years ago) and to me, my face looks pretty much like it did back then too and was strangely surprised by the results. However I also noticed that some of the women having it done in line with me, had faces full of make up (something that you are not supposed to do). They weren't asked to take the makeup off at all. So I find that the results are really skeptical and can be manipulated in my opinion. One woman before me was caked in foundation so much, and she naturally got great results from the test and that really brought home to me that the results are not that scientific. |
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Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:15 am |
| brierrose wrote: |
Well that is discouraging to say the least!
Here I thought retin A was supposed to help reverse sundamage and was the gold standard for antiaging! Are you going to stop using Retin A? It makes me wonder if we're doing more harm than good or do you think the face peels factored in on this? |
I have just started using the ZO Advanced Radical Night Repair. This product is much stronger than any strength Retin A product I have ever used. And I will start applying my 1/4 tsp of a sunblock on my face (it's super hard  ) |
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Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:23 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
For example, they say that it compares to others who are the same age and ethnicity as you. But it doesn't give you detailed information about those that it compared it to. |
As far as I understood, they compare you to others in their database.
So if in 2015 I had better scores than 77% of other women, in 2018 I have scores that are only better than 44% of other women.
Do you believe there is a possibility that the quality of their database got worse in 3 years?
I had makeup removed during both times.
Putting VISIA analysis aside, I think, that, in general, after 13 years of Retin A use, my skin is far from being perfect. I have to rely on a host of other additional cosmetic interventions to maintain the youth of my skin. |
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Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:49 pm |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
| brierrose wrote: |
Well that is discouraging to say the least!
Here I thought retin A was supposed to help reverse sundamage and was the gold standard for antiaging! Are you going to stop using Retin A? It makes me wonder if we're doing more harm than good or do you think the face peels factored in on this? |
I have just started using the ZO Advanced Radical Night Repair. This product is much stronger than any strength Retin A product I have ever used. And I will start applying my 1/4 tsp of a sunblock on my face (it's super hard ) |
I'll probably continue to use RA but after reading your post I thought the same as you...I really need to make sure I'm using adequate sunscreen! I hear you about the 1/4 tsp. am't though. It doesn't sound like much but when you put it on your face it's A LOT esp. if it has any white cast to it. |
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Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:04 am |
That is my understanding too - but their reluctance to share information about those in the database is what makes me question it - as to the number of people etc.
Also as my derm says, its questionable the subjects they used. So for example, the 30's they have may have great skin, but the 40s and 50s maybe not so great, and so if you are being compared against not so great results as being the norm then you will always look bad in comparison to the "norm" (and what exactly makes their "norm" normal is not yet disclosed too).
I think its questionable and they are completely reluctant to answer questions which in my mind discredits their theories. I have used Retin A for the past 40 years and started using it in the 60's and wouldn't be without it.
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
As far as I understood, they compare you to others in their database.
So if in 2015 I had better scores than 77% of other women, in 2018 I have scores that are only better than 44% of other women.
Do you believe there is a possibility that the quality of their database got worse in 3 years?
I had makeup removed during both times.
Putting VISIA analysis aside, I think, that, in general, after 13 years of Retin A use, my skin is far from being perfect. I have to rely on a host of other additional cosmetic interventions to maintain the youth of my skin. |
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Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:47 pm |
| A dermatologist told me that sunburns and sun damage in youth can show up as damage years later so maybe that is a contributing factor to your results. |
_________________
Dry skin but not many wrinkles; 50s and Asian; Topicals: Vit C, tretinoin, hydroquinone & azaleic acid for melasma; Likes: SK-II, Shiseido, Shu Uemura, Skinceuticals, Obagi, P50, Sunday Riley, Hada Labo, facial oils |
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Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:31 pm |
| denisiel wrote: |
| A dermatologist told me that sunburns and sun damage in youth can show up as damage years later so maybe that is a contributing factor to your results. |
Yes, that's what I've heard as well. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:40 am |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
Yesterday I had my 2nd VISIA analysis done at a local cosmetic clinic. Before that I had it done in 2015. The results are somewhat puzzling.
VISIA skin analysis grades your results to others of the same age and skin type. It measures spots, wrinkles, texture, pores, UV spots, brown spots, red areas, and porphyrins. Most clinics offer this service free of charge. The higher the number, the better the results.
Some facts about me:
I have been using Retin A/Tretinoin/Stieva A 3-7 times per week for 13 years. Occasionally, I had a break from it for 1-2 weeks but not more than that.
I avoid the sun as much as I can. I would say that I spend much less time outside than an average person as I exercise in the gym only, shop only in malls, I don't like walking, etc. I use sunscreen with SPF 50 every day all year round. I live in a country where winters are long and summers are cloudy.
Results:
As one can see from the pictures, the number of UV spots significantly increased. The number of brown spots has increased as well. The number of wrinkles also increased (pics not shown.)
Conclusions:
Based on the results of the VISIA analysis, I can assume the following:
1. Retin A was contributing to the photoaging of the skin by increasing the skin's photosensitivity.
2. Retin A was not helpful for treating the photodamage.
3. The sunblocks I used (EltaMD, Paula's Choice, etc.) provided unsatisfactory UVA protection. |
This is why I like to use either Tinosorb or Mexoryl sunscreens with stabilised avobenzone. I layer zinc on top as an extra but it's not the sole source of my UVA protection |
_________________
Curent Regime: Cosmetic Skin Solutions CE Ferulic and Phloretin/ Revale Intensive Serum / NIA 24 Intensive Recovery Complex cream / Jojoba and Squalane oils / Avene Emulsion SPF 50 & Prevage City Smart SPF 50 / Skinceuticals Retinol 1.0/ Dermaroller / Facial exercises |
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Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:59 am |
| LondonJamie wrote: |
This is why I like to use either Tinosorb or Mexoryl sunscreens with stabilised avobenzone. I layer zinc on top as an extra but it's not the sole source of my UVA protection |
This is a very smart approach! Do you mind sharing which sunblocks do you use? |
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Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:14 pm |
| I too would like to know which sunblocks are better. I got the EltaMD at my derm's and figured it should be good. Please let us know. |
_________________
70+ Lifeline Daycare, their Eye firming complex, OSEA ocean lotion cleanser, Makeover Workshop Re-Creation Lip Treatment, Argan oil some nights, Dennis Gross CC Cream SpF 18 |
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Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:52 pm |
| I’ve used Retin A for a certain period during my teenage to cure breakout. The initial result was amazing and my face was clear. Yet, not sure if my skin has built tolerance for Retin A or accustom to it, the result was not that prominent when I used it again years later. I have tried for several times since then and the result was not as good as before. Hence I stop using Retin A since then. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:56 pm |
| One of the keys to UV prevention is to apply suiificent amount of sunscreen on face. I have recently bought the Avene sunscreen fluid. Have read through the instructions which states I need to apply 6 pumps on face to ensure the sunblock effect. The question is if I apply that amount in face, my face will certainly look very unnatural...... |
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Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:27 pm |
| When I read through the research done for the Retin A trials (several, as there are various forms), the results were that 40% of the people in the studies saw a statistically significant reduction in wrinkles. That means 60% had no reduction in wrinkles at all. While RetinA is the best cream we currently have for reducing wrinkles, it is not a cure all. You just need to determine if it is in fact reducing your wrinkles, and if that benefit outweighs the side effects. Chronic irritation and inflammation can lead to more wrinkling or a poorer skin appearance, so you really need to know your own skin. If you tolerate it well and don't have redness or irritation and/or it visibly reduces your wrinkles, then keep using it. If you have irritation and no reduction in wrinkles, then you could just be part of the majority 60% that didn't respond positively to the treatment. |
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Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:35 am |
I think it completely depends on your skin - and you have to know it well.
I’ve never used Retin A and won’t; I feel it thins the skin. I may be wrong, but I’ve read so many horror stories [orange peel skin] that I won’t go near it.
I also don’t use sunscreen as I don’t like the chemicals. They bother my skin. I wear a sun hat and walk in the shade as much as possible.
So- what do I use?
I use Biologique Recherche, and specifically, the P50 with phenol toner/exfoliant. I also use their masks [Vivant etc] for exfoliation. And their various serums and creams. I use Clarins’ Double Serum as well, Vinter’s Daughter in the Winter, and Emma Hardie’s Moringa cleanser. I occasionally use a Clarisonic with a mild cleanser.
I have very oily skin - and I’m almost 80, with no wrinkles. That’s obviously due to genes. But I think it’s also due, in part, to acknowledging that my skin is highly sensitive - I’ll get rashes and boils from various lines, such as Lauder, Sisley, ..even baby oil! So- I stick to BR and daily exfoliant and masks and serums.
So, I think that one has to ignore the ‘mob’, so to speak, and focus on what works with your skin and this may be very unique to you. |
_________________
Skin care addict, Biologique Recherche, Cellcosmet |
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Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:10 am |
| CatIndigo wrote: |
I use Biologique Recherche, and specifically, the P50 with phenol toner/exfoliant. |
I used to use it as well. It is a nice product.
Where do you buy it? |
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Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:24 pm |
Russian Sunshine - I buy it from Paul LaBrecque salon in the US. I live in Canada and buy most of my Biologique Recherche products from OnetoOne studio in Toronto.
But- the P50 with phenol isn’t sold in Canada, so, I buy it online from Paul LaBrecque. It is stronger than the other P50s, and my oily skin can handle it - and likes it.
I find these BR products excellent. There is never any irritation and - they work. They are not ‘overnight sensations’. Instead, they work on your skin until you suddenly realize after a few weeks - that your skin is healthy, smooth and problem free.
There is, frankly, nothing else like this line. I’m a junkie for skin care - I love to explore -but, I have to acknowledge that my skin can’t handle most of the fillers and perfumes of other lines - and, the BR line is powerful; it produces results.
I don’t use things like dermaroller or anything like that. And don’t have a dermatologist. But, I stick to the BR line. |
_________________
Skin care addict, Biologique Recherche, Cellcosmet |
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Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:14 pm |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
| LondonJamie wrote: |
This is why I like to use either Tinosorb or Mexoryl sunscreens with stabilised avobenzone. I layer zinc on top as an extra but it's not the sole source of my UVA protection |
This is a very smart approach! Do you mind sharing which sunblocks do you use? |
I like to use tinted zinc as a second layer. The Paula's Choice Resist spf 30 is 13% tinted zinc. It works well over my other sunscreen and adds a little colour.
I don't like avobenzone but do well with mexoryl sunscreens. |
_________________
Canadian with fair skin. 50+ years old sensitive and reactive. |
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Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:59 pm |
Retin-A was always known to increase photo-sensitivity. It is supposed to be prescribed for its intended purpose to treat acne. Its anti-aging property was the secondary "benefit" and I use the quotation marks deliberately.
Retin-A as an anti-aging ingredients is old news. I don't live in the 80s so would certainly won't go back then for my skincare. Now, we have peptides and growth factors, niacinamide, stem cells... |
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Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:46 am |
Sorry but I take offence at this comment.
I am a woman in my 70s and have worked with the same Derm since my early 20s and use Retin A still to this day and do not consider myself to be out of touch or out of date in relation to skincare. Many derms still prescribe Retin A to this day and not just for treating acne but a variety of skin conditions and yes to rejuvenate the skin.
There are more studies on Retin A than any other topical out there - and whilst you are correct it was designed primarily to assist with acne, its so called "secondary" effects are quite remarkable.
yes it does increase photo sensitivity, but provided that a person uses a good quality sunscreen, this is really not important. I have used it continuously for the last 58 plus years and have mixed and matched with other things over the course of that time, but Retin A is a staple in my skincare regime and it has been a very good one that produces results.
If people want to use stem cells and feel comfortable with that - good for them, but they are no where near as documented at being as effective or powerful as Retin A, and thats before we even begin to talk about how they harvest stem cells etc which can be quite barbaric according to some of the doctors I've spoken with.
| arielstar08 wrote: |
Retin-A was always known to increase photo-sensitivity. It is supposed to be prescribed for its intended purpose to treat acne. Its anti-aging property was the secondary "benefit" and I use the quotation marks deliberately.
Retin-A as an anti-aging ingredients is old news. I don't live in the 80s so would certainly won't go back then for my skincare. Now, we have peptides and growth factors, niacinamide, stem cells... |
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Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:47 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Sorry but I take offence at this comment.
I am a woman in my 70s and have worked with the same Derm since my early 20s and use Retin A still to this day and do not consider myself to be out of touch or out of date in relation to skincare. Many derms still prescribe Retin A to this day and not just for treating acne but a variety of skin conditions and yes to rejuvenate the skin.
There are more studies on Retin A than any other topical out there - and whilst you are correct it was designed primarily to assist with acne, its so called "secondary" effects are quite remarkable.
yes it does increase photo sensitivity, but provided that a person uses a good quality sunscreen, this is really not important. I have used it continuously for the last 58 plus years and have mixed and matched with other things over the course of that time, but Retin A is a staple in my skincare regime and it has been a very good one that produces results.
If people want to use stem cells and feel comfortable with that - good for them, but they are no where near as documented at being as effective or powerful as Retin A, and thats before we even begin to talk about how they harvest stem cells etc which can be quite barbaric according to some of the doctors I've spoken with.
| arielstar08 wrote: |
Retin-A was always known to increase photo-sensitivity. It is supposed to be prescribed for its intended purpose to treat acne. Its anti-aging property was the secondary "benefit" and I use the quotation marks deliberately.
Retin-A as an anti-aging ingredients is old news. I don't live in the 80s so would certainly won't go back then for my skincare. Now, we have peptides and growth factors, niacinamide, stem cells... |
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Take offence all you wish. No one was commenting about you. Narcissistic perhaps? This thread is about how Rein A increase photosensitivity which is well documented.
Retin-A was not invented for anti-aging. There are good reasons why it is a subscription drug. |
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