DermaRoller
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free skin care · Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:03 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:

Firefox,

How do we pre-soften the skin and how does it help?

Thanks, bfg

Sarah Vaughter says to "soften the skin to make it easier for the needles to penetrate and preserve needle sharpness the longest, have a hot back or long hot shower just before rolling. You can also just steam your face when only rolling the face."
http://dermaroller.owndoc.com/dermaroller-instructions.pdf
I figure sharp needles make less damage, which sounds bad from the inflammation POV, but we want neat pinprick holes not to mush up the surface by having to press hard. Pain-wise it seems to get the session over and done with more quickly, which means I don't bottle out by the time I finish my forehead!

Slow washing at the sink also works. I sometimes use a lotion (ie. water based) cleanser well massaged in followed by a foaming one for hygiene. If I have exfoliated relatively recently I don't always bother. I do my main exfoliation with lactic acid which is a humectant as well as a keratolytic, and there can be a reservoir in the skin for a few days. A urea-based moisturiser a few days before is an alternative or another.

Please post back if you try it, it can be YMMV with these guidelines. Confused

free skin care · Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:17 pm

I'm wondering how many of you go through the steaming part of dermarolling? I have the .5mm but I can't seem to get into a rhythm using it because of the time involved cleaning, steaming, sterilizing the face with alcohol, and finally rolling.

Perhaps if I went up to the 1.5mm and just did it once per month, it would help. But with a .5mm, at least per owndoc.com directions, I really need to roll twice a week.

Does anyone just cleanse the face with warm water and then go for it? From a practical standpoint, just very, very curious about what prep most of you take before dermarolling.

Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:28 pm

Hello, I am new to the forum.

I started using the dermaroller 2.0mm a few days ago I do it everyday after I shower then right after I put Bio Oil on it.

I have been reading you need to put vitamin A or E on right after.

So What I am wondering... If Bio Oil okay?

free skin care · Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:10 am

It seems the steaming thing would only work for more superficial rolling and if you weren't doing the numbing creme
first, since that needs time to penetrate and any effect from the steam would be gone by then. I'm sure there are people out there than can roll a 1.0 or longer without the topical, but there is no way I can, ouch!

free skin care · Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:53 am

skinsmything wrote:

It seems the steaming thing would only work for more superficial rolling and if you weren't doing the numbing creme
first, since that needs time to penetrate and any effect from the steam would be gone by then. I'm sure there are people out there than can roll a 1.0 or longer without the topical, but there is no way I can, ouch!

So, are you saying that steaming (especially with needles over .5mm) is not absolutely necessary? That there will be good penetration regardless?

It sounds like for folks with the longer needles, you don't steam anyway??

Last night, I just cleansed with warm water, flushing my face with it several times, sterilized the skin, and rolled.

It seemed fine... My guess(?) is that not steaming will ultimately impact the sharpness of the needles (make them duller faster) but if it's the difference b/t NOT rolling or just going for it, then, I will omit the steaming.

Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:04 am

I applied mineral makeup about 12 hours after dermarolling with a 1.5 dermaroller is the makeup the reason for my break out?

Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:37 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

TekUmbra wrote:

I just used a derma roller for the first time, and I don't know if it's because of my skin type, or I wasn't rolling hard enough, but my face hasn't turned red at all. I'm using a .5mm, and I do feel tingly all over my face, but that's about it. Should I roll harder, or is it normal that some people don't turn red?

An 0.5mm is only for product penetration, the needles shouldn't penetrate much more than the dead stratus corneum so you aren't massively affecting healthy tissue so redness is not essential. Very different to 1-2mm where we are penetrating the living epidermis/ dermis. Are you pre-softening the skin to assist the roller and prevent needle blunting?

Oh I see. I've been getting used to rolling now, and my face will get just a little bit red, but that's about it. I'll usually wash my face with warm water right before rolling and let it air dry.

I've only been using my roller for a week now, and I may be imagining things, but I feel the texture of my face has improved. I'm aiming for a more even tone on my face, so I can't wait for next month to see my progress.

free skin care · Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Luminosity wrote:

So, are you saying that steaming (especially with needles over .5mm) is not absolutely necessary? That there will be good penetration regardless?

It sounds like for folks with the longer needles, you don't steam anyway??

Last night, I just cleansed with warm water, flushing my face with it several times, sterilized the skin, and rolled.

It seemed fine... My guess(?) is that not steaming will ultimately impact the sharpness of the needles (make them duller faster) but if it's the difference b/t NOT rolling or just going for it, then, I will omit the steaming.

You don't need to sterilise the face for an 0.5mm because you are only breaking the horny layer not hte living tissue beneath. Washing with a foaming type cleanser (preferably not suplhate based) is sufficient. Sterilising with alcohol could be counterproductive because it cools and dries the skin.

free skin care · Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:29 pm

LoveyourselfG wrote:

I applied mineral makeup about 12 hours after dermarolling with a 1.5 dermaroller is the makeup the reason for my break out?

Unlikely unless you don't keep your make up brushes scrupulously clean. More likely to be a reaction to whatever you applied after the roll whilst the channels were still open, poor hygiene before rolling, rolling over active pimples or simply breaking down the skin barrier allowing weak opportunistic bacteria that like on the skin to gain entry.

free skin care · Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:29 pm

Firefox,

Ok, that makes sense... I certainly don't want to cool the skin, especially if I'm not steaming first. But can you answer my questions about the prepping the skin?

Do you use the longer needles and steam first? If so, when do you apply the numbing cream?

free skin care · Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:23 am

Luminosity wrote:

Firefox,

Ok, that makes sense... I certainly don't want to cool the skin, especially if I'm not steaming first. But can you answer my questions about the prepping the skin?

Do you use the longer needles and steam first? If so, when do you apply the numbing cream?

I just do an extended water wash because I know from experience that my delicate skin softens very easily. It is not simply the heat of a shower that is softening the skin, it is the 'wetting' (actually a dermatological term!) of the horny layer that softens it. Those using copper peptides may be familiar with this concept as Dr. Pickart refers to it.

I don't use numbing cream at all because I don't want to push those chemicals into my skin. Instead I dermaroller the forehead with a 1mm (get plenty of pinpoint bleeding), and have just received three line 1.5mm to do more sensitive areas such as near the mouth and target deeper wrinkles. You should be able to numb after 'wetting' because you apply cream and cover with an occlusive layer (?saran wrap/ cling film) which will hold the water in.

free skin care · Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:55 am

Thank you, Firefox! That helps a lot! Can I ask you how often you dermaroll and with what lengths?

From what I'm reading in your post, I'm guessing that you use the three line 1.5mm (and 1mm on the forehead) once a month?

Do you roll with a shorter length all over the face, too (and how often)?

I'm just trying to figure out my strategy... Right now, I'm finally starting to roll twice a week with the .5mm but within the next couple of months I'd like to bump that up. Sarah (Vaughter) has advocated rolling twice a week with the .5mm and then once a month with the 1.5mm.

What is your routine?

free skin care · Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:54 am

Luminosity wrote:

Thank you, Firefox! That helps a lot! Can I ask you how often you dermaroll and with what lengths?

From what I'm reading in your post, I'm guessing that you use the three line 1.5mm (and 1mm on the forehead) once a month?

Do you roll with a shorter length all over the face, too (and how often)?

I'm just trying to figure out my strategy... Right now, I'm finally starting to roll twice a week with the .5mm but within the next couple of months I'd like to bump that up. Sarah (Vaughter) has advocated rolling twice a week with the .5mm and then once a month with the 1.5mm.

What is your routine?

I started out with an 0.5mm, as much to practice technique as anything! I am very interested in stratus corneum integrity because I have sensitive eczematous skin, and like to do regular light LA peels so don't roll for product penetration. I would change that in the future IF I felt a specific active demanded it.

My routine with the 1mm is anything from two to six weeks, depending on social commitments and lactic acid peels. The 1.5mm three liner is new so no routine yet but probably every two to four weeks with the 1mm. I obviously wouldn't roll the whole face with a regular 1.5mm that frequently, because I would be wary of the destructive effect of chronic inflammation. It is important to note I use aloe vera most days AND recently introduced an LED device with healing and anti-inflammatory properties. That is quite different from someone using weak acids daily (eg. Retin-A, L-ascorbic, glycolic toner).

I believe it is possible to increase collagen production without relying solely on the healing cascade. That is a controversial opinion and I am using myself as a guinea pig somewhat, so you might prefer to go with a more traditional microneedling routine! If this is something that interests you, follow the thread over on the other EDS board started by DrJ from Barefacedtruth.com. I am pretty sure he thinks likewise, but is working on cytokines (from human stem cells) rather than plant extracts or antioxidant vitamins.

HTH! Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:19 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Luminosity wrote:

Thank you, Firefox! That helps a lot! Can I ask you how often you dermaroll and with what lengths?

From what I'm reading in your post, I'm guessing that you use the three line 1.5mm (and 1mm on the forehead) once a month?

Do you roll with a shorter length all over the face, too (and how often)?

I'm just trying to figure out my strategy... Right now, I'm finally starting to roll twice a week with the .5mm but within the next couple of months I'd like to bump that up. Sarah (Vaughter) has advocated rolling twice a week with the .5mm and then once a month with the 1.5mm.

What is your routine?

I started out with an 0.5mm, as much to practice technique as anything! I am very interested in stratus corneum integrity because I have sensitive eczematous skin, and like to do regular light LA peels so don't roll for product penetration. I would change that in the future IF I felt a specific active demanded it.

My routine with the 1mm is anything from two to six weeks, depending on social commitments and lactic acid peels. The 1.5mm three liner is new so no routine yet but probably every two to four weeks with the 1mm. I obviously wouldn't roll the whole face with a regular 1.5mm that frequently, because I would be wary of the destructive effect of chronic inflammation. It is important to note I use aloe vera most days AND recently introduced an LED device with healing and anti-inflammatory properties. That is quite different from someone using weak acids daily (eg. Retin-A, L-ascorbic, glycolic toner).

I believe it is possible to increase collagen production without relying solely on the healing cascade. That is a controversial opinion and I am using myself as a guinea pig somewhat, so you might prefer to go with a more traditional microneedling routine! If this is something that interests you, follow the thread over on the other EDS board started by DrJ from Barefacedtruth.com. I am pretty sure he thinks likewise, but is working on cytokines (from human stem cells) rather than plant extracts or antioxidant vitamins.

HTH! Very Happy

Wow, what incredible information... The healing cascade has certainly been the most studied. I myself love a good glycolic everyday, but for the last six months or so, I've stopped due to the parabens used as a preservative. Been trying to find something without them, but then it gets expensive.

I too love LED for collagen stimulation... and have recently noticed a huge bump in effectiveness when I started using Cellfood - Oxygenating skin care gel beforehand. Usually, LED is cumulative for me, but with the oxygen gel used prior to the LED, the next day my skin is plumped like crazy.

I will try and find the thread you mentioned. When you said it was on another EDS board, I'm guessing you mean another thread here on EDS?

free skin care · Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:31 pm

On the Skincare & Make Up board here on EDS
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=44821
Check the sticky at the top of this (DIY) board for homemade AHA toner recipes.

Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:59 am

Adav1925 wrote:

Hey all! I'm new here and have been reading a lot of these threads for the last few months. I just wanted to share my story with all of you about my skin issues and how I'm repairing them slowly.

My name is Alexandria, I am 31 years old. I am a cosmetologist which includes hair, skin (esthetics) and nails however, I mainly do hair and make-up.

My husband and I live in Okinawa, Japan as he is in the military. It is very hot and humid here
which has caused many problems for my OILY (I use capitals because it's that bad) acne-prone
skin.

When I first arrived here, I broke out more than usual. My husband said it would subside after about a month or so (as he has been here for 2 years more than I have) and it did somewhat, but it was always a struggle. My skin was usually always clear living in the states. I suffered the occasional break-out, but nothing I couldn't control as long as I kept on top of it, and I did, religiously.

Mu husband deployed for 7 months and while he
was gone, my skin broke out a little more than I was comfortable with, and I was sick of trying to stay one step ahead of it when that obviously was not working well. Also, working in a salon, I think it's very important to always look your best otherwise people have a hard time trusting you with their hair. So off to the doctor I went
and received a prescription for Retin-A along with some other things; benzoyl peroxide wash, oral and topical anti-biotics.

At first everything seemed to work well. My face cleared up and it was like the Retin-A was making my skin GLOW!

Fast forward 6 months, and my husband finally came home, and my skin was a total mess. I broke out like I never have before in my life. My skin had a horrible reaction to the Retin-A. I know
some people swear by it, and if it works for them, I say "Great." For me it was a skin death sentence. The dermatologist here wanted to put me on Accutane. Accutane?! I'm 31 years old and never experienced acne like this. My husband used it when we were teenagers and it did WONDERS for his skin (his skin is perfect) but for me at prime baby-making age? No.

So I decided to enlist the help of a plastic surgeon who did a round of 3 light chemical
peels, and 2 rounds of IPL. Oh, did I mention the BC pills that gave me more acne and melasma? Oh, I guess I forgot to mention that. I cried... And cried....And cried for months about my face. It was embarassing. I never wanted to leave my house.

The peels and IPL helped clear my acne, but not totally. Then my skin took on a new problem. I had developed orange-peel textured skin, and large scarred pores. My face was red, it burned
all the time, and I had brown marks on my right cheek.

I went home to visit the states for a wedding. I was petrified to see my family. It was so noticeable. I was a total wreck. All I did while I was home was research laser resurfacing all day and cry thinking that I was never going to ever look the same again. I was finally put on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication as I could not eat or sleep because this was
consuming my life.

The dermatologist I saw in the states told me I have Rosacea. I used to put loads and loads of benzoyl peroxide on my face as well as every type of acid you could imagine and it never did anything bad to my skin. My face was always protected by a barrier of oil, so over-drying was just not something i ever experienced. Now it seemed like the even the most mild sunblock made my face burn. Also? I could pick at my face for hours (sorry for the graphics, but I'm a natural picker. I believe you either are or you're not. To work in the cosmetology field, I think you kind of have to be a picker) and my skin would never scar. Now if I had an itch, it left a dent on my face. I was devestated. Plus the lighting where I work makes everyone look like they have the flu. It's so bright you can see every flaw, and it's not pretty. That made doing my job so much harder because I have to stare in a mirror all day.

So my husband did the research on Fraxel and decided that for me, it wasn't worth the risks, as well as we don't have a lot of options for good plastic surgeons where we live. So I decided to start going more natural as it was all my skin could tolerate at this point.

I started using 302 skincare. I use the 302 cleanser, the protein drops, the calming mist and sometimes Ointment RX. I also dermaroll with a 1.5 mm.

I can actually say that my skin has improved about 80% since this whole trauma started. My scarred pores are almost gone. My skin tone is more even than it has been in the past year. My acne is gone. My face for the first time in my life is not oily, and I no longer look like a crackhead when I get to work from the make-up sliding off my face due to the humidity here. I have "normal" skin now. It's not dry, it's not oily...it's wonderful. I'm no longer afraid to leave my house. I don't feel self-conscious around people anymore and I don't think that all anyone is looking at is my horrible skin. I also don't analyze everyone else's skin anymore as I did while this was going on. I no longer feel as though I need any kind of laser treatment.

I took many pictures during this whole journey just to document my progress as it's hard to tell a difference if you have nothing to compare. The difference is nothing short of amazing.

Thank you everyone for letting me share my story. I hope someone gets something out of this post. If anyone would like to see pictures, please let me know. I can e-mail them, as I don't think I could post them from my iPad and I'm too lazy to break out my laptop ever.

What a great post and I felt for you through the whole described ordeal. I'm so happy for you that your skin has improved so drastically. Since your post was five months ago, I'm hoping it's even better, now! I, too, would like to know where to see other peoples' photos and I would LOVE to see yours. I've scoured online for before and after photos of derma rolling and stamping. Many look photo shopped, and the rest, while pretty good, are scant. I just ran across this site with a photo that looked pretty impressive. Google "the face place new zealand" and click on "Before & After Gallery" and it's the six row down - a woman's forehead whose pore size, texture and lines are dramatically reduced. The photos look legit, to me.

I noticed it said she had three treatments and this pic is six months later. That sounds about like what they tell you with Fraxel - biggest improvement seen a few a months out, and not an excessive number of treatments.

So, hi to all (I'm new and have lurked a little while) and if anyone can point to an area of the site where people post pics of their progress, please do!

free skin care · Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:42 am

Two questions:

Can I ask what you are using for your LED treatments?

Also, in lieu of a numbing cream, have any of you used ice bags or similar?

Thank you, BFG

free skin care · Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:31 am

Biannnnnnnnca wrote:

Hello, I am new to the forum.

I started using the dermaroller 2.0mm a few days ago I do it everyday after I shower then right after I put Bio Oil on it.

I have been reading you need to put vitamin A or E on right after.

So What I am wondering... If Bio Oil okay?

B- I hope you mistakenly wrote that dermaroller length and meant to write .2mm. If you rolling every day with a 2.0 you are going to ruin your skin!

free skin care · Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:39 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:

Two questions:

Can I ask what you are using for your LED treatments?

Also, in lieu of a numbing cream, have any of you used ice bags or similar?

Thank you, BFG

I am using the Anti-ageing Lightstim and don't use anaesthetic cream (but not rolling entire face). I did purchase one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-RELAXING-AND-SMOOTHING-HOT-COLD-FACE-GEL-MASK-/290601795840
But it was inflexible when frozen (duh) then I realised I would have to sterilise the surface each use (double duh) so never really bothered! I think it would work if you pressed it against one section, then rolled, then pressed another section, then rolled. Or left it in the freezer long enough to get a 'Slush Puppy' effect, or just used it to deal with any post roll deep itching or soreness. Even just a little coolness can be amazing for those because stoopid nerves can only send one signal at once. Laughing

Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:26 pm

I have not tried rolling nor bought any rollers, yet. I'm scared! So, I just keeping reading and hope I'll get up the nerve. I've seen mention of how people soften up their facial skin and that's something I have worked on, so I'll share what I've tried.

I'm fair, oily/dry, prone to break out (I'm 57!) with uneven pigment and possible actinic keratosis. I do not tolerate Retin A but have some Differin, which I don't use more than once a week, and that's sporadic. What has worked for me is the following:

First I started with Burt's Bees Baby Bees Diaper Ointment. I chose that knowing that zinc is very beneficial for skin. It's thick, greasy and you look like a geisha when it's all over your face, so I put it on at night and wipe it off when I get up. This made a real improvement, rather quickly. Softer and clears up breakouts.

Next I use (alternated with the zinc) Perrin's Cream Complete. Just search that online. It, too, is greasy so I use it at night. It has a slight orange tinge and can stain pillows, so use a pillow case you don't care about. Perrin's also makes something called Perrin's Blend (thick and gooey like raspberry Tootsie Rolls melted) and I had used that on what looked like a melanoma (undiagnosed) on my mother's leg and it went away. You can read about Perrin's Blend online. I can't say enough good about it. Their products are all made from natural ingredients, are rich in anti oxidants and were originally formulated for Mr Perrin's who had cancer. They have two websites and I can't recall what's at each so just search to find both and read everything. The Cream Complete is sort of like the dark colored Perrin's Blend in a lighter formula. That will really soften your skin.

Third thing I've been alternating with is Burt's Bees Natural Acne Solution which is a light moisturizer made from willow bark and salicylic acid. This, too, clears clogged pores, exfoliates without uber peeling, and softens the face. It's the least bit oily so it's a great daytime moisturizer.

Last, I'm using a treatment of all three. I cleanse my face with 3% hydrogen peroxide poured on a clean paper towel and apply the Burt's Bees Acne stuff. After that's been on an hour or so (so it sinks in or whatever), I mix, in my palm, a 50/50 mix of the zinc and Perrin's Blend. My face is smooth and no visible peeling (though I make sure I rub well with the paper towel while cleansing).

All three of these products are natural, healing, no toxic chemicals, and they work. So, if you want soft facial skin, help with acne/blackheads and unsightly peeling, this will give you great results. I can't say if it's best to mix it all as I have, or to alternate (one night zinc, the next Perrin's Blend, ect). I just experiment. Also, none takes very much, so they last a long time, making it not expensive.

Now, if anyone can assure me not to be scared of pushing needles into my face, I would really appreciate some encouragement! I found out about derma rolling while reading on Fraxel (which I can't afford and Iknow is painful). If DR is the mechanical alternative to Fraxel, then I can't see why it should be done too frequently. Fraxel is usually about four treatments, spaced about 4 weeks apart. Dermatologists and plastic surgeons love making $$$ so if it were advisable to do Fraxel more often and frequently, they would! This tells me that once a month with the longer needles is enough!

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:19 pm

for those that have used dermaroller and dry brushing technique to combat cellulite.....what worked better?

Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:33 am

@ BC Girl- I haven't rolled my cellulite yet but I dry brush and plan to do both together. The brushing helps if done consistently and I'm hoping the blood flow stimulation will further add to the healing and tightening of the skin after I roll...I'm happy to post on my progress but diet and rebounding have helped so much I will be focusing on my stretchmarks first.

I've read and re-read all the dermarolling posts I can find and finally started last night. I rolled my stomach with a 1.5mm roller. It looked/felt like a sunburn afterward with some pinpoint bleeding. I tried pressing as hard as possible but did not feel the pain was unbearable. Is the stomach thicker or less sensitive? I brazilian wax myself/use an epilady/dry brush, so maybe I'm ready for the pain but I think either I need a longer needle for the stomach or I just hate those marks so much it was worth it!!

After everything I've learned from this forum (thank you!) I've devised my own routine and I wonder your opinions on some things. For example, I plan to roll face and breasts with 1mm roller and use the 1.5mm on stomach, hips (I can tell those will hurt!!), thighs and butt. I'll roll my breasts in a week and originally I was thinking I would weekly rotate areas to roll and repeat areas after 6-12 weeks depending on my patience. Now I'm wondering if my body would not heal as well while focusing on so many areas at once?

Also, if medical rolls show maximum results after 6 months or so, is there any value to really just putting more time in between rolls or do you think that just delays the process? I'm not getting any younger lol...wouldn't mind wearing a bikini before its too late for other reasons.

I'm using pure aloe with msm, neroli, rosemary verbenone and lavender essential oils now and I'll move on to a home made carrier and essential oil blend with oils proven to regenerate cells and tighten skin. I know this isn't the proven protocol but I'd like to see how it goes.

Finally, I can see the "injury" to my skin and it's quite inconsistent throughout my marks. Single needling seems to work the best but frankly my body is covered with marks and I don't have that kind of time. I'm thinking of using a 2mm one line roller for the worst marks on my stomach. Owndoc website suggests single needling 5 days after a roll. Any thoughts on this? Why not the same day? Would that not disrupt the healing?

Maybe this should be on the stretchmark rolling thread but it is not too active anymore and I learned just as much on this thread. I plan to roll for anti-aging and skin tightening/cellulite as well. Honestly I don't care as much about the marks as the skin condition anyway. My stomach is fairly flat but compared to how stretched out it once was, those marks just wrinkle up. yuck.

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

**Editing to say I also took a warm-hot shower before rolling to soften the skin for ease of penetration. Anyone think that reduces pain?**

free skin care · Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:04 am

I rolled my cellulite, ended up with track marks and cellulite. Stick with dry brushing and other methods. Micro current has shown the best results but it's not cheap.

free skin care · Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:53 am

I view dermarolling as the "poor" man's Fraxel.

You can search the thread for recommendations on needle lengths, treatment intervals and inflammation.

BFG

Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:48 pm

Hi there,

I've often read posts on here but only just became a member as wanted to find out a few things about which products to use when dermarolling, i've looked through this post and online but still theres a couple of things I wanted to get clear on,

I have had several derma roller treatments for acne scarring last year with a surgeon until i decided to start rolling at home which I've done so about 3 or 4 times now using a Scientia 1.5mm roller, i've been using a vitamin e cream and also chiroxy oxgenating cream to help boost collagen renewal

I'm hoping on my next visit to my GP he will prescibe me retin a, and once i've got that I'll be using that along with my rolling.

My main question is which products do you use whilst your derma rolling and when do you apply them? At the moment i'm only applying afterwards but i've seen some people are apply them before, is this necessary? and when your using vitamin c and e serums where are you getting them from? I want to get the best results out of my rolling just not sure where to look for the best products!

I hope someone can answer my question!

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