DermaRoller
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free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:45 am

[quote="Lowbrowscientist"][quote="photoqueen"]
I am using a Scientia Derma Roller - I was told there are two methods of use - using the device heavyly once a week or lightly 4 times a week neither method should EVER draw blood, I have checked again today with customer services and they told me not to draw blood.

The Scientia Derma Roller has been approved by the FDA and the National Health Service and the advice is available in a video format.

I am following these instructions.

http://www.derma-rollers.com/35/scientia-derma-roller-instructions/

PQ.[/quote]

I can't recall - were you using the shorter needles? 0.25mm or less? That schedule could apply to the shorter lengths.

Somewhere around page 75 or so of this thread, we had a pretty lengthy discussion about instructions like these... they are in complete conflict with what the inventors recommend. Eventually we concluded that it was in our best interest to ignore the instructions of the manufacturers, because their biggest goal is to sell rollers. The inventing docs, on the other hand, are making nothing from the sale of those rollers (and Dr Liebl quite vehemently insists that they should not be used in the home at all, and that people should only have this treatment done by a pro), and it's their protocol, not the manufacturers, that are getting the results in the before and after photos.

Of course, it is a matter of personal choice whose instructions you decide to follow, but I tend to lean on the side of the research, and all the research points to intense, infrequent rolls being the way to go for collagen induction (which is what you'd want for scars/stretchmarks). Just about every long-term roller who chose to do otherwise recanted after a period of several months, because what initially looked like success ended up reversing itself and eventually looking worse, in some cases.

Just be cautious if you're going to trust their advice over the inventors', and watch carefully for signs of trouble. And, keep reporting back with your results, good or bad, because inquiring minds want to know Wink

[/quote]

1.5 mm needles, couldn't imagine using the 2.0 mm anywhere Sad

PQ

Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:58 am

Are you guys getting EMLA at a specific place? I see I can get it a few places if I google it, just wondering if a certain place is recommended.

I have a 1mm and a 1.5mm and I just never use them because it hurts....I really want the EMLA so I can start rolling.

thanks

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:19 am

pharaoh wrote:

Are you guys getting EMLA at a specific place? I see I can get it a few places if I google it, just wondering if a certain place is recommended.

I have a 1mm and a 1.5mm and I just never use them because it hurts....I really want the EMLA so I can start rolling.

thanks

I think everyone's getting it from different vendors. I bought mine from a canadian pharmacy, but I can't remember which one at the moment. I just looked at a few and made the decision based on price -- shipping price as well as item price, because on some sites it looks like a GREAT deal but they rake you over the coals with shipping.

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:32 am

Pharaoh I don't know where you live, but if its Canada, you can get EMLA at just about any pharmacy. I got mine at both Walmart and Costco. Costco's a bit cheaper than Walmart. Word of advice..get a small tube to start with. They have expiry dates and I find the small tube lasts 2/3 rolls (face).

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:38 am

[quote="pharaoh"]Are you guys getting EMLA at a specific place? I see I can get it a few places if I google it, just wondering if a certain place is recommended.

I have a 1mm and a 1.5mm and I just never use them because it hurts....I really want the EMLA so I can start rolling.

thanks[/quote]

I get mine in the high street chemist - Boots - not sure where you are in the world.

I pay £3.00 uk pounds a tube.

PQ

Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:47 am

I'm in the US. Do you think they might have it at the pharmacys here? I was thinking about calling my plastic surgeon as well....

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:54 am

pharaoh wrote:

I'm in the US. Do you think they might have it at the pharmacys here? I was thinking about calling my plastic surgeon as well....

It's a prescription item here in the US. Check with your plastic surgeon, though, and see if they'll prescribe it. I'm curious as to how much it would cost, buying locally with a prescription.

There's no one who would prescribe it for me here (my doc would probably freak out if I explained dermarolling to her Rolling Eyes

), so I'm stuck buying it from out of country and paying anywhere from $15 to $20 shipping.

Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:00 am

Dang. Just called my doctor and the nurse said it's prescription only...and I could go to the pharmacy and get lidocane but it's not nearly as strong.

I did tell my plastic I was rolling. He says that it has shown results but you do need to be aggressive. And WAIT for results becuase it takes time.

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:16 am

pharaoh wrote:

I did tell my plastic I was rolling. He says that it has shown results but you do need to be aggressive. And WAIT for results becuase it takes time.

Does he offer dermarolling treatments?

Sounds like he's really well informed. If I knew of someone local (and had the money) I'd spring for a professional treatment or two, to complement the home treatments.

Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:38 am

He's the best ever! I've talked to him about so many things.

I had a lip lift years ago (stupid) and have a scar on the top of my lip...pretty obvious. but though i thought i was taking care of my stitches i think i made things worse by putting hydrogen peroxide on them all the time.....anyway...he has a tattoo artist that does makeup. he told me that she could tattoo the scar with no ink and that it would help a lot.

thats when i started really looking into rolling again. i looked years ago and it was just starting to hit, couldn't buy a roller.
so when i saw him last i told him i was going to try to roll myself because it was cheaper....like 2000 cheaper! and he agreed it was a good thing to do.

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:52 pm

mountaingirl wrote:

Moongoddess....I started rolling almost a year and a half ago. At first I rolled once a week with a 1mm, then switched to a 1.5mm, once every two weeks and did that for about 8 months. I really believe that was TOO much!!!! and it did not produce the results because I stayed in the inflammation stage, never giving myself enough healing time inbetween. I'm am always compulsive and an over-doer, so I've paced myself in the last 6 months and only rolled 3 times. No, I haven't had the results yet that I think are possible, particularly around my upper lip lines. The Emla I used last night, numbed my face so completely, I could have driven a knife through my skin!!!! When I picked up my 1.5mm, I couldn't get a single blood spot and it seemed to barely penetrate. It might be dull and I may need a new one. The 2mm definitely dug in. It was by far the best roll I've ever done, and I can thank the Emla for that.

thanks for all that info - now i'm vaguely remembering reading about your experience. 2mm scares me, but then just dermarolling freaks alot of people out. in the end i guess we arm ourselves w/ information and then take the calculated risk. I almost don't won't to hear about postive results w/ 2mm 'cause i know i'll start chasing that carrot...

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:02 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

moongoddess wrote:

NOw i'm confused because the inventing Docs say if you have not seen the results you want by 4-6 rolls then you are not going to see results...

One thing I meant to say earlier is that this statement above was made in reference to medical treatments done in a clinic -- performed with much more intensity, and in many cases, with longer needles. Dr. Fernandez was using 3mm needles, and Dr Liebl used a mixture of lengths that included 2mm.

The vast majority of home users will not be able to do quite as intense a roll, especially around the mouth area, because while docs are using a combo of nerve blockers and topical anesthetics, all we have are the anesthetics. And in addition to shorter needle lengths, a lot of people are also mixing and matching with their own actives; some of which are not the same as what the inventors used, or the same strengths. Using their specific protocol went a long way toward getting *those* particular results. If we're altering the protocol, it's a toss up whether or not we'll see anything that dramatic (and since not *everyone* responds the same way, some people may not get that anyway).

Bottom line, it is very possible that we'll need to do double (give or take) the amount of home treatments to see results similar to a treatment done in a clinic. I think it's possible to get those results, but it will take us longer at home, and we need to be diligent about following the protocol to increase our chances of success.

LBS
thanks for taking the time to write that out - i've read so much about DR, and though it's all in my head, some of it's still a little jumbled...

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:41 pm

moongoddess wrote:

I almost don't won't to hear about postive results w/ 2mm 'cause i know i'll start chasing that carrot...

.. I know how you feel!

And, I know what you mean about the information, too... there's just SO much of it, it's hard to keep it all straight. I started a dermarolling file awhile back, but the info is saved on 2 different computers (sometimes I'd save it on one and forget to transfer it to the other) so I often can't find what I'm looking for. And, I tend to remember very specific info, but not where I read it, or who said it Neutral

... they say the mind is the first to go Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:54 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

I do believe that for home use, 2mm is more than most people need, and 3mm is just complete overkill, but we'd all do well to maintain a healthy skepticism about claims made on the various manufacturers' websites.

Low is right on the money as usual.

Liebl stated that 2mm was overkill in the vast majority of cases, and Fernandes went from using the 3mm exclusively to recommending the 1mm to other doctors based on his results research. These are all mentioned in the CIT/Dermarolling Articles thread I started.

The only reason someone would really want to use longer than a 1.0mm is if they are trying to break up scar tissue from acne scars, stretch marks, etc. And let's be honest...most of the people using a 1.0mm aren't even penetrating the needles fully anyway due to the pain factor.

free skin care · Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:10 am

Yay! Bethany's back! Very Happy

(Please say you'll be hanging around!)

bethany wrote:

And let's be honest...most of the people using a 1.0mm aren't even penetrating the needles fully anyway due to the pain factor.

I can testify to this Neutral

I just rolled last night - first time in 4 months, and I don't know if I'll be able to do another one in July, so I REALLY wanted to make this one count. I slathered on the Emla, saran wrapped it (seems to be a necessity for me), left it on for just over 45 minutes and I STILL could not do my upper lip at all, and I wasn't as thorough as I wanted to be around my eyes or on my forehead. I went as quickly as I could while still being really careful not to drag the needles. My pain threshhold is just too low for me to ever do my upper lip without novacaine.

free skin care · Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:44 am

i'm gonna roll everyday with the 2 day rest on my thighs and see how well that works.

free skin care · Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:50 am

Third day post-roll (2mm.) Skin looks gorgeous today!!! Cool

Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:09 am

mountaingirl wrote:

Third day post-roll (2mm.) Skin looks gorgeous today!!! Cool

Hi mountaingirl, that is good to hear. Are you still red anywhere? I am planning on copying your treatment this weekend! After leaving the numbing cream on for 45min did you feel anything at all around the eye or mouth area?
Thanks, Elle

free skin care · Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:20 am

Elle2009 wrote:

mountaingirl wrote:

Third day post-roll (2mm.) Skin looks gorgeous today!!! Cool

Hi mountaingirl, that is good to hear. Are you still red anywhere? I am planning on copying your treatment this weekend! After leaving the numbing cream on for 45min did you feel anything at all around the eye or mouth area?
Thanks, Elle

Happy rolling, Elle! Let us know how it goes (and we love pictures) Very Happy

Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:51 am

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Elle2009 wrote:

mountaingirl wrote:

Third day post-roll (2mm.) Skin looks gorgeous today!!! Cool

Hi mountaingirl, that is good to hear. Are you still red anywhere? I am planning on copying your treatment this weekend! After leaving the numbing cream on for 45min did you feel anything at all around the eye or mouth area?
Thanks, Elle

Happy rolling, Elle! Let us know how it goes (and we love pictures) Very Happy

Lowbrowscientist, thanks! Although I don't feel all that happy when rolling. I read you post about still feeing pain even though you used numbing cream. Have you tried leaving it on longer? On the product website for numbing cream it says it can be left on for 2 to 5 hrs. Like yourself I cannot stand the pain around the eyes and above the mouth and plan and leaving the cream on there until I am ready to roll the areas. Just a though, what do you think? And regarding pics mmh not sure I want them on the internet but I guess I could try to crop and post certain areas only Very Happy

Elle

free skin care · Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:17 pm

Elle2009 wrote:

Lowbrowscientist, thanks! Although I don't feel all that happy when rolling. I read you post about still feeing pain even though you used numbing cream. Have you tried leaving it on longer? On the product website for numbing cream it says it can be left on for 2 to 5 hrs. Like yourself I cannot stand the pain around the eyes and above the mouth and plan and leaving the cream on there until I am ready to roll the areas. Just a though, what do you think? And regarding pics mmh not sure I want them on the internet but I guess I could try to crop and post certain areas only Very Happy

Elle

I used to leave it on for an hour, before spot treating with the 1.0mm or 1.5mm 3-line. Since I was only treating certain areas it went more quickly and everything stayed very numb, except my upper lip (which is always too sensitive). Last night, it started wearing off around the eyes; that has never happened to me before when using Emla. I only left the Emla on for around 45 minutes last night, since a lot of people here seemed to have great results with shorter time. But I was also treating my entire face, and I think I was just slower than usual for whatever reason, hence the numbness wearing off. I didn't realize that it was ok to leave Emla on for so long, but that might be really helpful (as long as I don't get cold feet while waiting for the Emla to kick in Embarassed

).

I actually have pics from last night's roll, but I haven't posted them because they are *ahem* a bit bloody Embarassed

I wish I'd cleaned up a little, but it was mid-roll and I didn't want to waste time. I was leery at first too about posting pics on a public forum, but I usually just block out my eyes or crop them in a way so that you can't see my entire face.

free skin care · Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:07 pm

Noticed today at the dermatologist who does my Omnilux - they are offering professional dermarolling - same equipment we are using - she told me they get great results and she is using EMLA.

We must be doing it right!

PQ

Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:23 pm

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Elle2009 wrote:

Lowbrowscientist, thanks! Although I don't feel all that happy when rolling. I read you post about still feeing pain even though you used numbing cream. Have you tried leaving it on longer? On the product website for numbing cream it says it can be left on for 2 to 5 hrs. Like yourself I cannot stand the pain around the eyes and above the mouth and plan and leaving the cream on there until I am ready to roll the areas. Just a though, what do you think? And regarding pics mmh not sure I want them on the internet but I guess I could try to crop and post certain areas only Very Happy

Elle

I used to leave it on for an hour, before spot treating with the 1.0mm or 1.5mm 3-line. Since I was only treating certain areas it went more quickly and everything stayed very numb, except my upper lip (which is always too sensitive). Last night, it started wearing off around the eyes; that has never happened to me before when using Emla. I only left the Emla on for around 45 minutes last night, since a lot of people here seemed to have great results with shorter time. But I was also treating my entire face, and I think I was just slower than usual for whatever reason, hence the numbness wearing off. I didn't realize that it was ok to leave Emla on for so long, but that might be really helpful (as long as I don't get cold feet while waiting for the Emla to kick in Embarassed

).

I actually have pics from last night's roll, but I haven't posted them because they are *ahem* a bit bloody Embarassed

I wish I'd cleaned up a little, but it was mid-roll and I didn't want to waste time. I was leery at first too about posting pics on a public forum, but I usually just block out my eyes or crop them in a way so that you can't see my entire face.

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Elle2009 wrote:

Lowbrowscientist, thanks! Although I don't feel all that happy when rolling. I read you post about still feeing pain even though you used numbing cream. Have you tried leaving it on longer? On the product website for numbing cream it says it can be left on for 2 to 5 hrs. Like yourself I cannot stand the pain around the eyes and above the mouth and plan and leaving the cream on there until I am ready to roll the areas. Just a though, what do you think? And regarding pics mmh not sure I want them on the internet but I guess I could try to crop and post certain areas only Very Happy

Elle

I used to leave it on for an hour, before spot treating with the 1.0mm or 1.5mm 3-line. Since I was only treating certain areas it went more quickly and everything stayed very numb, except my upper lip (which is always too sensitive). Last night, it started wearing off around the eyes; that has never happened to me before when using Emla. I only left the Emla on for around 45 minutes last night, since a lot of people here seemed to have great results with shorter time. But I was also treating my entire face, and I think I was just slower than usual for whatever reason, hence the numbness wearing off. I didn't realize that it was ok to leave Emla on for so long, but that might be really helpful (as long as I don't get cold feet while waiting for the Emla to kick in Embarassed

).

I actually have pics from last night's roll, but I haven't posted them because they are *ahem* a bit bloody Embarassed

I wish I'd cleaned up a little, but it was mid-roll and I didn't want to waste time. I was leery at first too about posting pics on a public forum, but I usually just block out my eyes or crop them in a way so that you can't see my entire face.

Hi Lowbrowscientist, that is what I thought that the numbing cream wears off if one doesn't roll fast enough and being new at this I am a slow roller with a lot off internal struggles to inflict this on me myself but the only time I did it I didn't use any numbing cream. I new on here so not sure if I can post the link to the numbing cream (can't event type the word starting with E ending in A info site is netdoctor dot co dot uk and then search for it

the write up says:

How does it work?

Emla cream contains two active ingredients, lidocaine (previously known as lignocaine in the UK) and prilocaine. These are both medicines called local anaesthetics. They are used to numb areas that would otherwise feel pain.

Pain is caused by the stimulation of pain receptors at the ends of nerves. The stimulation causes sodium to enter the nerve ending, which causes an electrical signal to build up in the nerve. When this electrical signal is big enough, it passes along the nerve to the brain, where the signal is interpreted as pain.

Lidocaine and prilocaine work by temporarily blocking this pathway of pain signals along nerves. They do this by stopping the sodium entering the nerve ending at the site of the pain. This prevents an electrical signal building up and passing along the nerve fibres to the brain.

When Emla cream is applied to the skin, the lidocaine and prilocaine prevent pain signals passing from that area to the brain and so numb the skin. This means otherwise painful procedures can be performed without causing pain.

The cream can be used to temporarily numb the surface of the skin before procedures such as injections, taking blood samples and minor skin surgery. In adults, the cream is applied in a thick layer underneath a dressing up to five hours before the procedure, and left on for at least one hour (at least two hours for procedures on large areas, eg split skin grafting). Your doctor, pharmacist or nurse will either apply the cream, or show you how much to use and where to apply it. This will depend on the procedure that will be performed. The dressing is removed just before the medical procedure starts. You can get dressings to use with the cream from your pharmacist or doctor..... the article is longer

I will let you know how it goes and the pain factor. Was it mountaingirl who said that she numbed her face and didn't feel a thing? I am trying to copy that. I will try to take pics and post them but what do people want to see I would have thought before and after and to demo results so that might take a while. Elle

free skin care · Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:24 pm

I posted this question somewhere else - wondering if anyone here knows for sure.

I live in the US and am visiting england next month. I would love to buy emla cream cheap and bring it home.

Is it found in the boots store (ive seen them before) - or do I have to go to the pharmacy?

Also is this even legal to do??

THANKS

free skin care · Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:27 pm

Boots have EMLA behind the counter, just ask for it. It is £2.83 for a tube.

I am not sure if it is legal to take it home.

PQ.

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