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Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:02 pm  |
Zenity, I make a rather half-hearted attempt at facial exercises and have absolutely no knowledge of the muscles used but I do use the Tua Viso which does contract the muscles very powerfully - therefore, you can really feel the muscles moving.
With the Safetox, however, I don't feel any muscles contracting - all I feel is a very strong "drilling" sensation in the middle of the forehead. It states in the instructions that after a while you should be able to gain control of certain muscles and be able to wiggle your ears - which by the sounds of it, you have already achieved.
Like everyone else - I love this device. 
I don't see a problem with sharing it with someone else and I find that the patches retain their stickiness very well. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:42 pm |
| Zenity wrote: |
| ... I would like to know what muscles do you feel are engaged with it ... |
Safetox is recommended for a particular patch placement that primarily engages:
* Procerus
* Corrugator Supercilii
It also engages to a smaller degree:
* Frontalis
* Orbicularis Oculi (upper part)
You can think of it as a radial impact with a center in the Procerus area, e.g in between eye brows. You can get greater impact on Frontalis by placing patches in other areas of it since it is quite large flat muscle.
Edited: I do not feel Occipitalis being engaged with Safetox. But I have good control of occipitalis already, and there is no way for me to know if Safetox can contribute any more to it. |
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Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:51 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
... I do use the Tua Viso which does contract the muscles very powerfully - therefore, you can really feel the muscles moving.
With the Safetox, however, I don't feel any muscles contracting - all I feel is a very strong "drilling" sensation in the middle of the forehead. ... |
I feel pretty much the same. |
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Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:05 pm |
| Zenity wrote: |
What leads me to Bethany
Thanks for your explanation. Now, I understand better... and still can't get how the hell this device can, somehow, paralize the nerves. 
They only use electric pulses, right?
BTW, they selll it at ebay italy for 159€ I think. Is it a good deal?
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One more question to you all, would it be okay to share it with someone else?
Can you reuse the patches? Or better to get a new set for just single use. |
Thanls for posting the patent info and powerpoint...I'll read that tonight!
Zenity - I looked at that ebay seller in Italy as well...it all depends on your exchange rate. They were also charging a fortune for shipping. FYI...they had 20% VAT factored in the price, so that may lower the for you.
The patches can be used about 5 times each...there are 4 patches per sealed packet (only 1 packet comes with the Safetox unit...buy more when you buy the unit!).
And there aren't hygiene issues with sharing this device at all...you'll just need more patches and more batteries! (I sure wish they made a plug-in model to keep the strength consistent) |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:41 am |
Wow!
Thanks A LOT, to you all.
It has been a while since I do not post at EDS and now i remember why I was so hocked here: because of all the great people around helping and sharing knowledge.
Glad I am back!
I think that if you do not feel the actual muscle at the back of your head engaged might be 'cause is too weak or either 'cause there are no electrodes specifically placed there.
My own deduction:
Safetox does paralize the front muscles by using the electro-inhibition, wich is pretty much to induce the muscle to the exhaustion where no longer responds to the electrical signs sent by the nerves.
This was extracted from the same page I posted before:
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An essential feature of the invention is that the current applied advantageously uses impulses with a frequency above 100 Hz, which causes very rapid electric fatigue of the pyramidal muscle (4, 5) . Thanks to this continuous excitation of the motor nerves, there occurs a rapid cessation of the electric activity of the muscle fibres innervated by the excited motor nerves (6) . With this impulse frequency maintained constant, the pyramidal muscle can no longer be excited within a few tens of seconds, loses its tone and thus relaxes completely (7) .
The excitation of the motor neurons of the pyramidal muscle also causes the relaxation of its antagonistic muscle—the forehead muscle—via the reflex of reciprocal inhibition ( . In fact, the electric impulses at the level of a muscle not only excite the motor neurons of this muscle but also the afferent proprioceptive fibres of this muscle. The excitation of the latter inhibits the motor neurons of the antagonistic muscle (9,10) .
Moreover, the electrodes 2 being positioned at the level of the inner tendons of the eyebrow muscles, the current excites the afferent nerves of these tendons, i.e. those that leave the Golgi tendon spindle. Since these tendon afferents inhibit the motor neurons of their muscles, namely the double eyebrow muscle, their excitation by the electric impulses causes the relaxation of the muscle (11, 12) .
According to the invention, the electric frequencies are higher (at least 120 or 150 Hz) and the application time is much longer (typically more than 60 s) than in patent U.S. Pat. No. 4,957,480. This therefore does not lead to working fatigue but to an intense so-called “electric” fatigue (4, 6) . The electric activity in the muscle fibre, characterised by rest and action potentials, disappears as a result of the accumulation of extra-cellular potassium ions (K + ). The electromechanical linkage of the muscular activity is broken by the disappearance of the electric potential of the fibres. This results in the total suspension of the mechanical activity of the muscle and hence complete relaxation, the muscle being in a reversible state of electromechanical sideration. Achieving this state is moreover avoided and not recommended in conventional electro-stimulation. It can only arise thanks to the specific electric parameters of the present invention. It is observed neither in electro-stimulation nor in voluntary contractions
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Another thing to consider is that isolating facial muscles is hard and in most of the cases auxiliar muscles work in synergy with the targeted ones.
That happens with the area we are talking about.
At the pps about safetox i saw how they claim to work the back muscle of the ear (I am trying to avoid tech. names) wich engages the back of your head.
It does a lot of sense to me. If this device causes the frontalis muscles to paralize due to exhaustion, and reinforces the very weak muscles of the sides and back of your head then there is no resistance from the front and obviously the face gets an "ocasional lifting".
I can state this 'cause is what I have observed in myself just by exercising contractions at will.
What I can't do or at least I haven't done yet (I am a bit crazy and always try weird experiments)is to paralize a muscle by exhaustion. I might try it with a professional unit of electrostimulation that I own, but I have been to chicken to use on myself....
I am still hesitating about the italian Safetox.
I live in europe and vat is not an issue.
150€ plus 18 for shipping sounds reasonable.
It is very tempting, but I always give myself a bit of time to think about new investments instead jumping on them.
I will keep watching this thread for updates.
Again thank you all beauties! You are an unvaluave source of honesty and help!
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:58 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| (I sure wish they made a plug-in model to keep the strength consistent) |
Bethany,
I recall being in Malasya and seeing a type of battery that was directly pluged to the power and then placed inside a portable CD player as a regular battery but just leaving the top opened. I wish I could remember the name of that... I am sure there is something out there similar to use regular electricity to supply power to devices using land adaptor ike-regular batteries. |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:51 pm |
| Zenity wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| (I sure wish they made a plug-in model to keep the strength consistent) |
Bethany,
I recall being in Malasya and seeing a type of battery that was directly pluged to the power and then placed inside a portable CD player as a regular battery but just leaving the top opened. I wish I could remember the name of that... I am sure there is something out there similar to use regular electricity to supply power to devices using land adaptor ike-regular batteries. |
REALLY? OMG...I will have to research this!! |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:57 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| But I feel the forehead muscles working, the top of the scalp, my eyelids, and also the area on the outside corners of my eyes. |
I really paid attention to the zapping last night and today, and wanted to add that I can also feel it in my upper and middle cheeks and under my eyes...very surprising.
BTW, the zapping gets less intense the longer you use it due to the nerve inhibition.
I also thought the impact it has on my sinus infection was interesting. I tried to blow my nose prior to treatment...nothing. After 3 consecutive treatments, I was able to blow out a ton. TMI I'm sure, but just thought it was interesting.
This is honestly the BEST gadget I have bought, and the only one I would repurchase in a heartbeat. Only Ageless has been close in the level of improvement. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:17 pm |
Although this device is not marketed for sinus and headaches, it has helped my sinus issues and it is something I look forward to morning and night. I must be a little off to be looking forward to something drilling on my forehead  |
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female,"50 something" medium to thick normal skin, no wrinkles,Lightstim,Easy Eye Solutions,Green Smoothies,Ageless Secret Gold, Pico Toner,Beautiful Image |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:24 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| Zenity wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| (I sure wish they made a plug-in model to keep the strength consistent) |
Bethany,
I recall being in Malasya and seeing a type of battery that was directly pluged to the power and then placed inside a portable CD player as a regular battery but just leaving the top opened. I wish I could remember the name of that... I am sure there is something out there similar to use regular electricity to supply power to devices using land adaptor ike-regular batteries. |
REALLY? OMG...I will have to research this!! |
Guess what...I have already found someone online who is helping me with this! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:24 pm |
| Toby wrote: |
| Although this device is not marketed for sinus and headaches, it has helped my sinus issues and it is something I look forward to morning and night. I must be a little off to be looking forward to something drilling on my forehead |
Me too...I am starting to worry if you can overuse it, lol. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:40 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| Zenity wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| (I sure wish they made a plug-in model to keep the strength consistent) |
Bethany,
I recall being in Malasya and seeing a type of battery that was directly pluged to the power and then placed inside a portable CD player as a regular battery but just leaving the top opened. I wish I could remember the name of that... I am sure there is something out there similar to use regular electricity to supply power to devices using land adaptor ike-regular batteries. |
REALLY? OMG...I will have to research this!! |
Guess what...I have already found someone online who is helping me with this! |
Well by all means SHARE with your sisters!  |
_________________
female,"50 something" medium to thick normal skin, no wrinkles,Lightstim,Easy Eye Solutions,Green Smoothies,Ageless Secret Gold, Pico Toner,Beautiful Image |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:52 pm |
| Toby wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| Zenity wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| (I sure wish they made a plug-in model to keep the strength consistent) |
Bethany,
I recall being in Malasya and seeing a type of battery that was directly pluged to the power and then placed inside a portable CD player as a regular battery but just leaving the top opened. I wish I could remember the name of that... I am sure there is something out there similar to use regular electricity to supply power to devices using land adaptor ike-regular batteries. |
REALLY? OMG...I will have to research this!! |
Guess what...I have already found someone online who is helping me with this! |
Well by all means SHARE with your sisters! |
I will, as soon as I have something concrete to share. I have to take pics of the insides tonight and send to him. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:57 pm |
You! Little evil creature! LOL!
I suscribe what Toby says: BETHANY SHARE!!!!!
Now crossing my fingers whatever you have found works with 220V. 
Girls, I am sold. But I am keeping myself to go on ebay and watch again the tool in question.
I know if I do it I will end up ordering.
Time to bed and consult with the pillow -and the bank account- says my inner voice |
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Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:31 pm |
Fr those of you that are laying down while using L3 and wishing it were stronger (like me, lol)...try it sitting up, with the electrode a tad lower between your eyebrows. YIKES!!  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:16 am |
My 11's are looking less and less. I have been using this little gadget for aprox 10 days, 2 x a day. I use it for 10 min a time on #3. It is intense. Before I go to bed I put on a frownie and my 11's are less and less every day. I am loving this. Botox didn't do this for me.
Edited to say, I would love this to work all over my face. |
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56 Years, trying to stop the aging process. |
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Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:55 pm |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| Edited to say, I would love this to work all over my face. |
I'm also very happy with my results - and yes, wouldn't it be great if they could come up with something similar for the lower half of the face! |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:26 pm |
Mine came today! Yowza. Y'all described the sensation, but I was still surprised by it. I'm really hoping for good results.
My husband is still humming the Wonder Woman theme song. I know I will never hear the end of this.
Myrna |
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Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:35 pm |
| Myrna Speaks wrote: |
Mine came today! Yowza. Y'all described the sensation, but I was still surprised by it. I'm really hoping for good results.
My husband is still humming the Wonder Woman theme song. I know I will never hear the end of this.
Myrna |
When you actually turn into the the wrinkleless Wonder Woman you will get the last laugh! Go for it! and welcome to the forum Toby |
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female,"50 something" medium to thick normal skin, no wrinkles,Lightstim,Easy Eye Solutions,Green Smoothies,Ageless Secret Gold, Pico Toner,Beautiful Image |
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Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:10 pm |
| Myrna Speaks wrote: |
My husband is still humming the Wonder Woman theme song. I know I will never hear the end of this.
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I took mine over to my sister's house, and my BIL went NUTS when he saw me with mine on, lol, He was like "What in the $%#@ is that #$%@ thing on your HEAD?" Then when he found it could reduce the mega money my sister spends on Botox, he was not laughing quite so hard!
But I doubt she will end up buying one until a year from now when I look AWESOME and she is still spending big bucks on Botox and sagging in various places. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:54 am |
I think it's kinda cute, really. It looks better than the gooey masks I used to slather on, for sure. I've always wanted to wear more vibrant accessories. 
This morning I used level 3 with no problem. |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:05 am |
| so any updates on the replacement battery situation? |
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Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:42 am |
| I'm eager to hear about that too. I'm not eager to trot down to Radio Shack and ask about a battery eliminator for my Safetox, since everybody in town knows everybody else's business already (and my package said "beauty device" on the outside of it). I definitely will order batteries on line - no need to make anybody wonder why I look so "refreshed" AND use so many batteries. They'll think I have a new high-tech vibrator! |
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Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:20 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
| so any updates on the replacement battery situation? |
Pics have been submitted and I am just waiting to hear back on ideas!
ALERT!! ALERT!!
I am looking at an opportunity to get us some electrodes at a discount from what we currently have to pay. (about $30/pack + $18 shipping for my last order)
If anyone is interested in purchasing 5 to 10 replacement packs of the electrodes (12 in each pack), please let me know NOW!!!
I am trying to determine how many commitments we could get, and use that to drive the price down.
Thanks! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:22 pm |
Has anyone noticed that their temples/upper cheek bone areas feel slightly numb since using their Safetox regularly?
Mine do, and I'm wondering if I'm overusing it for 15mins 2x a day.  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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