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Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:06 pm  |
Scottishgal - I can relate as I also have SKs in the same area, as well as other places. I've never tried to remove them with an at-home treatment, but I can tell you that under the breasts takes longest to heal because it's a warm, moist environment and you have the additional problem of the bra band riding over it. When I had a bunch of them removed in that area, I took 2 days off and laid on the bed with a fan blowing at my chest! When you have SKs removed, all the derms I've been to have said the same thing: leave the raw spot alone and as free as possible so it dries up as fast as possible. If they are removed completely, as they should be so they don't return, the area will be abraded down to the "real" skin where there will be a raw scrape, kind of like if you skinned your knee when you were a kid. Honestly, because that area is tricky, I'd rec having a derm do the removals because you may have to make a second career out of doing it yourself.
But, please keep us posted if you try an at home treatment, especially if it works and they don't return! |
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scottishgal
New Member
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 3
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:24 am |
Thanks Jax 
Unfortunately, the Derm is not an option since in the UK we have the National Health Service and they consider SK to be "cosmetic surgery" and so you would have to pay both arms and legs for any treatment.
Since my post last night i have tried applying the H2O2 with an artist's brush to the whole area under each breast. It made me say some very rude words indeed and a very interesting dance around the house 
OMG, it burnt like hell and I can't say that I'm looking forward to having to do it again! I had to lie down with the hair dryer on "cold" to try to get some relief. The whole area bubbled and went frosty in appearance and then turned bright pink - fetching... 
I'm glad i don't have to leave the house or put a bra on today.
I'll post again when I see the results. Fingers crossed. |
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:55 am |
| scottishgal wrote: |
Thanks Jax
Unfortunately, the Derm is not an option since in the UK we have the National Health Service and they consider SK to be "cosmetic surgery" and so you would have to pay both arms and legs for any treatment.
Since my post last night i have tried applying the H2O2 with an artist's brush to the whole area under each breast. It made me say some very rude words indeed and a very interesting dance around the house
OMG, it burnt like hell and I can't say that I'm looking forward to having to do it again! I had to lie down with the hair dryer on "cold" to try to get some relief. The whole area bubbled and went frosty in appearance and then turned bright pink - fetching...
I'm glad i don't have to leave the house or put a bra on today.
I'll post again when I see the results. Fingers crossed. |
Since SK bubbled on your skin, it should show some degree of deterioration soon. You need to destroy it completely to minimize re-appearances in the future. Depending on SK stage you might need to re-treat it. It seems that you are one of the first ones to treat breast area, please keep us in the loop on your experience.
I have been SK free for a while now, and I was not particular about maintenance treatments.
I hear you about socialized medicine. My parents live in EU country with socialized medicine, and there are terrible limitations and waiting times for procedures that need to be done urgently. My mom has been waiting for such procedures for months now….  I really hope that US would not go EU route. |
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:13 am |
Scottishgal - Did you use the 3% strength H202 or did you get the stronger one? I ended up wearing a tight-ish thin tee shirt under my clothes for a few days to avoid the bra. It was in the middle of winter so I was able to layer my work clothes with tops and blazers so it wasn't too noticeable.
Like mpstat wrote, please do keep us posted! |
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:33 am |
| Clinical studies did not use low level concentrations of H2O2, they started in around 20% and went up to 80% with the majority in 35%. |
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scottishgal
New Member
Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 3
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:10 pm |
Do you have any advice on how long I should leave it before re-treating? The whole area has been very tender all day and the SK is bright pink but otherwise looking annoyingly healthy!
I have had the SK for quite a few years and they are widespread and of varying sizes.
I used the 35% H2O2. I can't imagine using 80% In fact, I will have to use all of my courage to reapply it next time.
Thanks Jax and mpstat for the support and help -much appreciated |
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:59 pm |
scottishgal - somewhere on this thread we discussed several application schedules, there is no one particular schedule that fits all. At the time I did my initial treatments I was not aware of H2O2 and used glycolic acid applications two days in a row, but it is not something that I would advise on doing to everybody. My case was mild, and I was able to remove most of SK following with some touch ups with H2O2.
You can re-read the thread looking specifically for posts on application schedule in different instances. Or you can wait several days and see what is the outcome of your initial application, and then decide based on the outcome.
Edited: 80% H2O2 sounds severe!!!  |
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:39 pm |
scottishgal - I'm going to give you my humble opinion based on the assumption that you have never had an SK removed before so you can have some idea of what happens. On my fair skin, the normal skin around the SK will turn pink since the removal method has inflamed the whole area. In my case, and because I always have a considerable number removed in one session, I feel a sunburn-like discomfort for about 24 hours. With the SK gone, there is a raw, scuffed area where it once was. It doesn't bleed. Over a week to 10 days, a thin scab forms, dries up, and falls off. My suggestion would be to wait at least a week to see how they're healing. Also, you may then be able to see better if any part of the SK was left behind. In my experience, the smaller the SK, the less pain.
Even though I haven't used your at home method, I making another assumption that the healing process is similar. HTH. |
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:54 pm |
| Jax - your description of the healing process is quite similar. |
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Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:29 pm |
| mpstat - are you still doing H202 maintenance baths? After re-reading this entire thread, I'm now wondering if using some Karin Herzog products would be at all effective as a preventive measure because they contain hydrogen peroxide. I've read conflicting reports on the safety of using hydrogen peroxide skin care products on a daily basis. The Herzog line probably has such low percentages that they wouldn't do much as a preventative? |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:05 am |
| I was doing preventive H2O2 baths in the beginning and then stopped. However my skin is still clear. I might get back to them in the future. I have tons of 35% H2O2, and instead of baths might just make my own H2O2 solution by diluting 35% H2O2 in water, and rubbing it all over the body. I agree that KH has low concentration on H2O2 plus it costs way more. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:09 am |
| I have a couple of small SKs in the hairline around my face (I'm like a farm for these things!) and that's where I wondered if a product like Herzog's would be helpful preventing any more from popping up. Your idea of making your own diluted solution sounds like a good one. You could make a fresh solution when needed and maybe apply it once a month, like a hair tint. Thinking of it that way, now I wonder if putting 35% strength on my hairline would bleach out my hair to white!?! Yikes, that would be a surprise |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:23 am |
| I think that 35% solution would bleach your hair, and even KH would make it lighter. But for maintenance you do not need 35%, diluted solution should work. All depends on the strength of the solution and for how long you leave it there. You can try and then report back to us... |
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Hopeful for help
New Member
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 5
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Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:05 pm |
Hi there.
First I want to say thank you to mpstat and all of those who have shared their experiences and knowledge here. Like many of you, I have been dealing with this most of my adult life and to finally find some hope is amazing. I'm in the midst of an H202 treatment and wanted to share my experience for others who are fighting SK.
I first noticed my *bumps* when I was only 21. They were very light and just slightly raised bumps on the tops of my hands. I didn't pay them much attention as they were barely noticeable and had no other symptoms. I am now 42 and the SK covers much of my body. It's still light in color and less noticeable on my hands and arms, but they are also on my feet, legs and back. They are most noticeable on the tops of my feet and my thighs, which are covered with them, and because they are dry and rough, tend to collect and take on the color of my clothing! I had tried dermatologists but without success. Then I found this site...
I am using H202 35% food grade from my local health food store.
I chose to start with a foot because this is the place that causes me the most embarrassment. The SK is prominent and while the spots are light in color they show easily with any almost kind of footwear that is not boots or full sneakers.
Day 1
9:45 PM
Lightly sprayed the H202 on the top of my left foot.
I had no immediate reaction. A slight tingling after several minutes, but nothing notable. I recall thinking *Pffffffffft...I can handle this!*.
9:55 PM
Still light, but a definite stinging. My ankle and lower calf (that I had not meant to spray) were stinging a bit also. Decided to spray another coat on.
10:00 PM
Stinging a bit stronger, but still nothing worth fretting over. My foot was blotchy red, my toes had an ashy color to them, as did my ankle. My lower leg was red with definite whiteness to areas, but the bumps on my foot had no apparent reaction.
10:15 PM
Lower leg and ankle seem to have stopped burning. My foot is quite red and still stinging but it's lessening.
10:30 PM
I went to bed without rinsing. Slight stinging still. Nothing major.
I'm feeling like I got off quite easy. On a pain scale never really got past a 6. I'm hoping it's working.
Day 2
7:30 AM
My foot is a bit red. The SK appear white, but not as dramatic of a change as I was hoping for.
9:15 PM
Feeling brave from my lack of burning last night I sprayed a generous amount on my foot, paying attention to focus the spray on the top of my foot, not my ankle this time. The burn set in almost immediately! Yikes!
9:25 PM
My foot is on fire! My ankle is on fire! My lower calf is on fire! The skin is red and the SK is white.
9:40 PM
I see light! It's still burning, but it is lessening and I know there is an end coming. My foot is extremely red. The SK is definitely white.
10:00 PM
I went to bed without rinsing. Still jumping as I fall asleep from little *aftershocks* of sting.
Day 3
7:00 AM
My foot is so swollen that I'm a bit worried. Did I overdo it last night?
Skin is very red and leathery looking and feeling. The SK is white and very dry, but not looking like it's coming off.
I decide to take this day off and moisturize. I wasn't sure if that was a good idea. After all, I want these things to dry up and fall off, but my foot really hurts and the skin is so tight on it that I can't bend my toes.
Day 4
7:00 AM
My foot is mildly swollen still. The skin is still tight, and red, but much better. The SK's are white, but do not look like they are ready to fall off or anything. I'm worried that I should not have taken the night off lastnight.
9:00 PM
Sprayed my foot generously. Didn't worry about whether I got the ankle of not. I figured by now I may as well do it too.
The burning began after a few minutes. It was not as light as the day 1 but not nearly as bad as day 2.
9:15 PM
Pretty intense burning, but nothing like the last time. Only moderate torture tonight! Yeah!
9:45 PM
Pain has pretty much subsided. Still a burn, almost a severe tingling,
I go to bed without rinsing and am getting used to the *aftershocks*.
Day 5
7:30 AM
My foot looks like a red, leather, foot shaped balloon! lol
SK's are white and I am seeing progress. I think I may have even flaked one off with my fingernail, but it's too sore to really touch.
I'm so hopeful!
9:00 PM
Another generous spraying. My foot is still sore from previous treatments, but I am seeing progress and determined!
Immediate burning sets in. I need help to get from bathroom to couch. I can't walk on foot. Sever pain, comparable to...well, honestly, I recall at some point wondering to myself how this might compare to burning in Hell for eternity. I prayed!
9:30 PM
Burning is still intense, but I know it's only temporary and will be so worth it if this works.
My foot is incredibly red. The SK seem to be glowing white in contrast.
10:00 PM
I go to bed without rinsing, still needing help to walk.
Day 6
7:00 AM
Today is day 6. Much of my foot is a deep purplish color. It appears bruised. (Has any else encountered this?)  I'm still swollen, but not as much as I was on the morning of day 3, or perhaps I've just gotten used to it. It's still hard to walk on the foot. The skin is very dry and tight. The SK's are white and very dry. They look like they could be picked off, if I could only touch them without screaming, I would try.
That's where I'm at...
I'm sorry this is so long, but I wanted to include each step so that others might have an idea of what to expect.
I'll keep you posted on my progress. I'm quite hopeful at this point and even with all of the pain, it will be sooooooo worth it if it works!
If anyone has any words of wisdom for me, please share. 
I'd love to hear your feedback! |
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Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:01 pm |
Hopeful for help - Welcome to the forum!
This is such good thorough record of your treatments! Since derms have not been that helpful fighting SK, we need to share our stories, and learn from each other.
Sounds that you have done more then enough spraying for now, and need to wait and see how the recovery goes. You should be awarded a medal for going through that many spraying without rinsing!!! While recovering try not to pick SK to avoid scarring. Wish you much success! |
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Sat Apr 11, 2009 10:19 am |
| Hi Hopeful! Thank you so much for your detailed report...I can assure you that those of us in the SK boat are very interested in your experience so don't hesitate to write a long post if you want to. I've been going to dermatologists for years to have SKs removed because it has been the fastest solution to just have them burned off but most drs. seem to want to do only a half-dozen or so at a time. I have to insist they remove a lot more so the appt is worth my time (and money). I would love to find something I can use at home so I can treat an SK when it first pops up instead of going to a derm once a year and getting a large area burned. The derms also usually seem very UN-interested in the SK syndrome which is why there isn't a more effective or humane treatment for it, or a preventive course of action. I have this thread marked to notify me when anyone posts so please keep in touch! |
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Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:34 pm |
I used to work at a health resort, and they used 35% food grade for all kinds of things. It used to be used to sterilize hospitals. The book Flood Your Body with Oxygen by Ed McCabe has info on it, as does his web-site.
I already have a bottle of this on hand, I put a few drops in it in my drinking water to oxygenate it.
Now I am going to try a few drops straight on the spots!
The reason you can't get it over 35% is because it would be dangerous. Its also used as rocket fuel, though I don't recall at what percentage. I think it was 80%. 35% is strong enough! I dilute it into 3 percent, use it to clean veges etc. Don't want the other kind, it has additives, so I make my own. Its fascinating all the things it can do for you though! |
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Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:10 am |
I tried the H20 last night and it sizzled up on there just like dry ice treatments. I was bracing myself for it to hurt, because in the past I have gotten a tiny bit on the end of my finger or under the nail and it hurt like a major burn for a few minutes. Almost like glass touching the nerves ... But it didn't hurt at all!
It must be because those spots arn't supposed to be there. I was really careful to only put it on the spot--I would be too afraid to spray it on the skin and let it land anywhere!
I had more on my legs than I realized...its so nice to think they will all be gone shortly! So cheaply too!
At our local health food store, they keep the 35% behind the counter and won't let you have it until they know you know how to handle it, how many drops you can safely use in drinking water etc. (There have been incidents of people treating it like 3 percent, not paying attention. Or putting too many drops and getting burned or sick, too much detox all at once) |
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Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:15 pm |
| SansSouci - Thanks for your input! Is the SK you treated raised or flat? I have a combination of raised SKs that are dark and flat flesh-toned spots which the derms have termed "lentigenes" (sp?). Can you tell at this early stage if the SK was destroyed all the way down to the real skin with one treatment? |
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:58 pm |
Hi Jax!
This is day two for me. I have both kinds, flat and raised. It has been difficult for me to tell
which ones are freckles with the flat ones. I grew up at the beach, so my upper back and arms have lots of freckles.
What I noticed is the H20 appears to be leaving the freckles alone, it just turns them red, but the other things it attacks them and turns them white. Yesterday there was this one area that I reapplied, kept letting it frost. Today it is not turning white, it stays red, so I think I killed it. That might be a way to tell when its killed, it stops turning white.
The other places where I did not apply it as many times turned white again today, so I put more on there. I noticed a little bit had dripped down and kind of bleached my skin yesterday but today its all blended in again...have you ever spot cleaned a spot on the wall and then discovered the entire wall was dirty because there is a clean spot? It was like that!
35% H20 has been used to treat skin cancers...I just remembered that this morning. It made me want to start misting myself with the 3% solutions and take baths in it now and then.
I would never self treat with 80% even if I could get some.
People have died drinking the 35% straight. They did not pay attention and I am guessing it burned them, you can't rinse this off.
Its really strong, just two or three drops in 16 oz of water. They were acting like it was the three percent. (which you would not drink either, the kind you buy to pour in your bathtub and rinse your mouth out with you have to make your own from the food grade). I swish around my own three percent solution to whiten my teeth.
Some put it in their laundry to kill allergy mites. |
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:17 pm |
Are these things also called "liver spots"?
I thought that's what mine were...
In the 70's I used to be a cook at a health resort, called Meadowlark with Dr. Loomis (he is in the wikepedia) (sp?)
If these things are liver spots, you can get rid of them from the inside out. I remember vividly one guest who was covered with spots on her hands. One day I saw her reach for a glass and ALL HER SPOTS were gone! I was stunned! We did a happy dance together.
Two giant brown spots on me left once too, about ten years ago-- it happened when I did a liver flush for a few days. I think I am getting my spots confused.  |
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:38 pm |
SansSouci - According to my derms, liver spots are "lentigenes," which are flat and either flesh toned or freckle-colored. Seborrheic keratoses are light-to-very-dark-colored waxy wart-like spots that often itch and can grow to various sizes. There are also skin tags, which derms seem to add to this group of annoying skin growths. I'm convinced all of these are the result of a microbe that disturbs the skin's keratin, like the microscopic virus that causes warts.
Do you know what the resort guest used to rid herself of the brown spots on her hands? I have very fair skin and any spot or freckle is very obvious.
BTW, there is a recent thread here on Tooth Whitening which gives the recipe for a baking/soda/3% hydrogen peroxide tooth paste to use for whitening. One of the posters appears to be in the dental industry and says this is a very good recipe to use.
Out there in the world there seems to be some controversy about the safety of using hydrogen peroxide habitually, even the low 3% drugstore strength. I don't think using the stronger strength of 35% to burn off an SK would be harmful, but I've wondered if taking weekly baths in a diluted solution or if ingesting it weekly or daily is playing with fire. |
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:16 pm |
Hopeful, I am a little bit worried about your foot. I am thinking maybe we should not do an entire foot at once, if that is happening, maybe a little inch or so at a time? That sounds a little extreme, what is happening! I don't know, but just to be cautious..
Jax, the lady didn't use anything topically on her liver spots at the health resort. She was there to de-tox, so it was a diet.
When people did de-tox it was the typical thing of getting off animal products, then going raw, then juices, then maybe master cleanse. Wheatgrass juice, all that. But it was internal. I would read their reports to see what they needed and juice the appropriate juices.
A liver flush would have been 1-2T of olive oil, 1-2 garlic cloves, pinch of cayenne, depending on if they could "take it" or not.
They also fasted and did colonics. At the end of some fasts they would do coffee enemas which would supposedly clear out the liver as well. Bile would dump into it, if I remember right. (This was in the 70's)
I got rid of two big liver spots about ten years ago that were on my stomach. I was seeing an acupunturist and he advised me on herbal remedies to clear the liver, milk thistle, etc. I was a little surprised that he said my liver needed to be cleared, as I don't drink or do drugs, and eat pretty clean. But I did what he said and the spots disappeared without anything topical. According to him, the liver holds anger, and it had anger in it from when I was a child.
Yeah, I think it would be good to be cautious using the H20 too. There is a guy at work that can't put any drops at all in his water, even though he is a vegan, takes handafuls of supplements and exercises, he does smoke, and even two drops makes him violently ill. It doesn't make me ill, so I think he has poisoned his bloodstream and the clearing with the oxygen is just too much. That is my armchair theory anyway.
I probably will not do the spray that often. Just as a cautionary check to see if anything starts to go white. Or follow curezone threads first, to make sure I know what I am doing.
I think I have one or two of each of those spots! And also some reverse freckles, I have white spots! It makes you wonder what our insides look like, if that is what happens to the outside, doesn't it? |
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Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:00 pm |
I wish Hopeful would come back with an update as I was also concerned about the inflammation of the normal skin on her foot.
I've read about liver flushes but haven't had the nerve to try it. Seems like it requires you to be housebound for a number of days. I know the liver is the main filter for all the toxins our bodies take in, so it makes some sense that it should be flushed occasionally. I'm wondering how a vegan who exercises could poison his bloodstream unless his veggies are contaminated. Your anecdote made me recall reading about a well known make-up artist back in the 80's who was washing all his veggies in a bleach solution because he went on some macrobiotic diet to cure himself of AIDS.
I also have a few small white spots on my arms but I chalk that up to pigment damage from sunburns I got in the age before sunblocks. If I could turn all my SKs into white spots, I'd be a happy camper. |
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Hopeful for help
New Member
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 5
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Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:32 am |
Hi all.
First, thank you for your responses, support and concern. My foot is still healing and I’m happy to say that there does not appear to be any permanent damage. lol
Today is day 10 since I began and I have not sprayed any more since day 5. My foot/skin is still healing. It is still red in areas, but there is no more swelling and the SK appears to be dying/dead! I’m cautiously hopeful. Most of the spots are light scabs now and I am hopeful as they heal they will just vanish with the scabs. My skin is still very dry and sore. I do think I over did the spraying, but if this really works, it will be so worth it!
I wish I was able to only do an inch or two at a time, but I just have soooooooo many that it would take years. That is what I started at the derms…Getting about a 2-3 inch area treated at a time (burning them off) but there are just so many, it would be never ending…
If this is successful, I will try stopping at 2 sprays on my other foot and see how that does, and perhaps not spray so much at each session.
What scares me is the thighs! Yikes! lol I have a feeling they will be easier, as the skin on my feet is very tough and the SK’s were old and thick, making them harder to penetrate. I’m hopeful that the rest of my body will not need quite so much.
I’ll keep you posted as the healing progresses.
Thanks again for your support and concern!
Hopeful
 NOTE *I have a very high pain tolerance and may have just gotten lucky. Please do not take my experience to mean that it is safe to spray your skin with the H202 as generously as I did!* |
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