For Vitamin C Serum DIYers
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free skin care · Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:20 am

mariansc,

I am glad you found a way that works for you! I wouldn't worry about asking questions or posting results, plenty of us love to hear about alternatives, I think that's why most of us are here to share and learn from one another my best advice just don't pay any attention to any negative remarks and post away, some of us are happily reading! Smile

DM

free skin care · Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:19 am

Keliu and Marian, great information. Thank you for sharing. Please tell me if I'm reading this correctly. Does sodium lactate have an effect similar to AHA's but does so while increasing the moisture content in your skin? If that's the case, that sounds great! Pigmentation is one of my biggest problems. Do you think you could take a basic lotion or cream and add .3% licorice and 15% SL? I wonder if that would make a good lightening cream.

I can't believe how cheap the SL is. I already have licorice and LAA. I may order some and experiment on my arm. I do enough experimenting on my face as it is.

Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:13 am

Hi all...I so appreciate the recipes! And Kassy - you have been beyond generous!

I've had some problems with this recipe (15% Vitamin C, E + FA Serum with Jojoba)and I have finally come to believe it is the quality of my ingredients. Others seem to have no problems!

The short story is: my FA from skin actives never completely dissolves and the oil always separates out.

May I ask where you successful potion-crafters (who have made this particular recipe) got the following ingredients?

FA
SKB
Jojoba oil (some are yellow and that seems inconvenient, right?)
Vit E oil

One great thing...my Vit C dissolves Very Happy

Thanks in advance!

free skin care · Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:51 pm

Tonia wrote:

Keliu and Marian, great information. Thank you for sharing. Please tell me if I'm reading this correctly. Does sodium lactate have an effect similar to AHA's but does so while increasing the moisture content in your skin? If that's the case, that sounds great! Pigmentation is one of my biggest problems. Do you think you could take a basic lotion or cream and add .3% licorice and 15% SL? I wonder if that would make a good lightening cream.

I can't believe how cheap the SL is. I already have licorice and LAA. I may order some and experiment on my arm. I do enough experimenting on my face as it is.

Here's the suggested usage of SL according to New Directions:

Usage:
• Can be used in a wide variety of personal care formulation for reliable preservation.
• Soluble in water and alcohol.
• Compatible with most cosmetic raw materials.
• Recommended use levels in a finished formulation is 1 - 3%.
• It is a pH control agent.
• Compounding procedures: May be added to water phase with heat to ensure proper incorporation.

So the most it can be used at is 3%. It is a derivative of Lactic Acid so maybe it does have an AHA effect - don't know. But Lactic Acid is great for the skin. And yes, SL will also add moisture.

I would suggest that if you have any questions for formulating with it, you ask the seller - they should be able to tell you how to use it correctly.

free skin care · Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:04 pm

Here is a PDF from Snoedrift Farms that has information about it if you want to check it out.

DM

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/reference/tech_data_sodium_lactate.pdf

Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:30 pm

I bought many bottles Vivier Vitamin-C IDS™ High Potency Serum 20 in the past. but this time, I am going to give it a try on my first VC Serum base on KassyA's 2008 recipe:

15% Vitamin C Serum, 1oz

1 teaspoon L-Ascorbic Acid
3 teaspoons Distilled Water
1 teaspoon SKB (Sea Kelp Bioferment)
1 teaspoon Remergent DNA cream (You 302 girls, can substitute with your THDA product!)
1/8th teaspoon Ferulic Acid
1/2 capsule of MSM supplement (be sure it's one with NO fillers!)
6 drops of Vitamin E oil

as I am getting ready to order all above ingredients, I am not sure what is " THDA product " and what is " 302 girls "

Also, is this recipe still a great choice ? or is too old? any suggestion ?
I have normal/ dry skin and used RetinA and copper peptide with sunscreen for the past 2 years and like it so far, I stoped using VC when I started using copper peptide 2 yrs ago, but right now I plan to use VC in the morning and keep the RetinA and copper at night

Many many thanks!

free skin care · Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:47 pm

This will answer about the THDA it is avaliable at:

http://www.lotioncrafters.com
http://www.bulkactives.com

It is a lipid (oil soluble form of Vitamin C) actually a derivative.

DarkMoon wrote:

Here is some info from Bulkactives site but lotioncrafters also carries it.

Appearance: Colorless to pale yellow liquid CAS# 183476-82-6
INCI Name: Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate Chem. Name: Ascorbyl Tetraisopalmitate
Suggested percentage: .5% to 7%
Solubility: excellent solubility in carrier oils, mineral oils, ethanol, silicone. Insoluble in water, propylene glycol, glycerin.
Inorganic Organic balance (IOB) : 0.274 HLB: 2.74 (IOB 0.274 x 10 = HLB 2.74)

This oil soluble product can easily be added to a base cream or lotion.
It can also be emulsified with Gelmaker PLUS and a 1% HA mixture to create a very light 'serum'.
Combine with L-ascorbic acid in a silicone base for an Anhydrous Vitamin C combo.

free skin care · Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:55 pm

302 is a whole skin care line and it's just saying that they can use their product instead!

The Ferulic Acid if you read the thread it has given a lot of people fits you need alchohol to dissolve it!

Supply: Ferulic acid
Product Name: Ferulic acid (savageness distill )
Botanical source: rice bran
Synonyms: trans-4-Hydroxy-3-methoxycinnamic acid
CAS NO: 537-98-4
Molecular formula: C10H10O4
Molecular weight: 194.18
Appearance: White fine powder
Odor: slightly amber aroma.
Solubility: soluble in Ethyl Alcohol and Diethyl Phthalate and insoluble in Benzene
Specification: Ferulic acid >99%
Melting point range: 168-172 C

HTH
DM

Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:12 pm

Thank you DarkMoon very much Smile

i am overwhelmed by the information contained in this thread. can't wait to make something and see if it works.

free skin care · Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:21 pm

katewilson wrote:

Thank you DarkMoon very much Smile

i am overwhelmed by the information contained in this thread. can't wait to make something and see if it works.

You are welcome kate, I know how daunting it is here, I thought my eyes would bleed at first! Smile

here is the recipe index and near the bottom
are lists of suppliers, in case you haven't found it yet!

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=11902

HTH
DM Smile

Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:21 am

Bumping this to see if someone can help me out.

Looking for ingredient sources that actually worked for 15% Vitamin C, E + FA Serum with Jojoba?

Summer_time wrote:

Hi all...I so appreciate the recipes! And Kassy - you have been beyond generous!

I've had some problems with this recipe (15% Vitamin C, E + FA Serum with Jojoba) and I have finally come to believe it is the quality of my ingredients. Others seem to have no problems!

The short story is: my FA from skin actives never completely dissolves and the oil always separates out.

May I ask where you successful potion-crafters (who have made this particular recipe) got the following ingredients?

FA
SKB
Jojoba oil (some are yellow and that seems inconvenient, right?)
Vit E oil

One great thing...my Vit C dissolves Very Happy

Thanks in advance!

free skin care · Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:14 am

Summertime, I bought my FE from Skinactives and it worked the same as yours. Many have ordered from there and had no problems. I think you and I just got a bad batch.

free skin care · Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:18 pm

Tonia wrote:

Summertime, I bought my FE from Skinactives and it worked the same as yours. Many have ordered from there and had no problems. I think you and I just got a bad batch.

Tonia,

Are you using the recipe without any alcohol? When I check the various sites the FE says solubility in water mild or just alcohol and a few other less organic chemical compounds! Just trying to help as I know the latest recipe uses vodka or another consumable alcohol to dissolve the FE!

HTH
DM Smile

Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:24 pm

Tonia wrote:

Summertime, I bought my FE from Skinactives and it worked the same as yours. Many have ordered from there and had no problems. I think you and I just got a bad batch.

Thanks for your reply Tonia. It's nice to know I'm not alone! (or losing my mind)

free skin care · Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:49 pm

You're welcome Summertime. Glad to help.

Darkmoon, I use vodka. I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Do you think it would be better to dissolve it in water or rubbing alcohol? If so, it's definitely worth a try.

free skin care · Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:21 pm

Tonia wrote:

You're welcome Summertime. Glad to help.

Darkmoon, I use vodka. I'm not sure I get what you're saying. Do you think it would be better to dissolve it in water or rubbing alcohol? If so, it's definitely worth a try.

Tonia Not at all, katewilson re-posted a recipe without any alcohol at all and it is very difficult to dissolve in water! The only thing I would suggest if you can find it is everclear which is consumable (wicked) but has a much higher proof actually the highest proof that is legal to sell. I would never use rubbing alcohol, just making sure nobody was trying to use just water! Smile

DM

Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:34 pm

Update on my C, E, FA, Jojoba adventure..

Our resident guru, Kassy, very kindly pm'd me to help with my C serum woes. She suggested I drop the FA to 1/8 tsp. To that I added 1/4 tsp vodka and kept stirring. Later, I added some more vodka. I've been adding and stirring for a long while now. Embarassed

I'm up to 2 tsps vodka and 1/8 tsp FA and it s still gritty!

Not wanting to give up completely, I just let the FA grit settle and took 1/4 tsp of the liquid at the top and continued on to make something that looks pretty good! (Although I guess it's light on the FA) Anyway, I made it myself and I'm gonna use it. Very Happy

If Kassy hadn't suggested I alter the recipe I don't think it ever would have occurred to me. I would have just kept trying to make little bottles of Vit. C with sand on the bottom. Thanks for the help Ms. Kassy!

And lastly, I believe some of us do have a bad batch of FA. I will contact skinactives and see what they say. I will report back.

ETA: This is a good lesson for me at least. I need to pay attention to what is actually happening when I make these potions. Ingredients are going to vary for one reason or another...maybe even from the same source.

free skin care · Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:46 pm

Has anyone noticed that DIY Vit. C serum with MAP turns yellow more quickly than one with just LAA?

I've made Kassy's 15% C, E, Ferulic many times since last August. The last time, I made the 20% recipe that includes MAP (ingredients listed below). But I've found that the version with MAP has now turned yellow, about 4 weeks since making it. Nothing has changed in how I've stored it and it's all the same ingredients that I've had. The recipe with just LAA has easily lasted me 6+ weeks without discoloration.

Here are the ingredients in the MAP recipe:
1 tsp LAA
½ tsp MAP
¼ tsp Ferulic Acid
¼ tsp Vitamin E oil
3 tsp H20 (distilled)
1 tsp SKB
½ tsp Glycerin
½ tsp Hyaluronic Acid

free skin care · Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:28 pm

I can't help you with the MAP, I've never used it. However, I just wanted to point out that everyone seems to be using a different version of the C recipe. This is because it has evolved over time. It does becoming confusing though. The latest version has Jojoba Oil incorporated in it and I have some thoughts about that. I always apply my C serum first, wait a while and then apply my other water based serums. However, if the C serum contains oil I would think it would have to be applied after the water based serums otherwise it may stop them from penetrating. But if the C serum isn't applied first, would this hinder its effectiveness?

Any thoughts on this Kassy. And which version of the C serum do you consider to be the definitive one?

free skin care · Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:01 am

Summertime, I contacted Skinactives when I got my FA. They sent me a detailed email telling me how to break up the clumps. I took this as them telling me how to fix what I considered to be their problem. They went as far as to suggest that I had let moisture get in the tube. I told them that the clumps were there when it arrived. A representative on the phone told me they would send me a replacement, just in case I had gotten a bad batch. I never got the replacement and breaking up the clumps didn't help. It still wouldn't dissolve no matter what I did. Overall, I am very disappointed with their total lack of customer service.

free skin care · Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:12 am

ShastaGirl wrote:

Has anyone noticed that DIY Vit. C serum with MAP turns yellow more quickly than one with just LAA?

I've made Kassy's 15% C, E, Ferulic many times since last August. The last time, I made the 20% recipe that includes MAP (ingredients listed below). But I've found that the version with MAP has now turned yellow, about 4 weeks since making it. Nothing has changed in how I've stored it and it's all the same ingredients that I've had. The recipe with just LAA has easily lasted me 6+ weeks without discoloration.

Here are the ingredients in the MAP recipe:
1 tsp LAA
½ tsp MAP
¼ tsp Ferulic Acid
¼ tsp Vitamin E oil
3 tsp H20 (distilled)
1 tsp SKB
½ tsp Glycerin
½ tsp Hyaluronic Acid

Shastagirl I make a version of this c-serum and yes the MAP seems to accelerate the oxidization process. I remember Kassy saying something about that about 30 pages ago Laughing

I just accept that I need to make the c-serum every 4 weeks instead of 6.

free skin care · Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:21 pm

This from http://makingcosmetics.com might help explain the yellow color as MAP has a white/yelowish color naturally, also note the correct ph at which it should be formulated at!

Description: Very stable vitamin C derivative (L-Ascorbic acid mono-dihydrogen phosphate magnesium salt) that does not degrade in formulas containing water. Light-stable and oxygen-stable. Purity >98.0 %. White-yellowish powder, mild odor. Soluble in water, may discolor in pH <6, best when used in emulsion based products at pH between 5.5-7. pH Value: 7.0-8.5. CAS# 114040-31-2.

free skin care · Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:35 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

This from http://makingcosmetics.com might help explain the yellow color as MAP has a white/yelowish color naturally, also note the correct ph at which it should be formulated at!

Description: Very stable vitamin C derivative (L-Ascorbic acid mono-dihydrogen phosphate magnesium salt) that does not degrade in formulas containing water. Light-stable and oxygen-stable. Purity >98.0 %. White-yellowish powder, mild odor. Soluble in water, may discolor in pH <6, best when used in emulsion based products at pH between 5.5-7. pH Value: 7.0-8.5. CAS# 114040-31-2.

Alley and Dark Moon - thank you for the input on my MAP discoloration. I'm leaning towards oxidation since the serum didn't start out yellowish, but gradually turned that way.

The makingcosmetics.com website definitely has a lot of useful info. I'll be spending some more time browsing there. I found it interesting that they recommend putting MAP into sun care products and provided a recipe for it. Thanks for the link!

free skin care · Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:43 pm

ShastaGirl,

That's one of my favorite sites for information on ingredients! Glad you found it helpful!
What is bothering me is this part: may discolor in pH <6, and LAA is best at a ph of 3 or lower so I am wondering if they work well in the same serum? They recommend a higher ph for the MAP to be used at!
They do have a lot of recipes there! Smile

DM

free skin care · Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:02 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

ShastaGirl,

That's one of my favorite sites for information on ingredients! Glad you found it helpful!
What is bothering me is this part: may discolor in pH <6, and LAA is best at a ph of 3 or lower so I am wondering if they work well in the same serum? They recommend a higher ph for the MAP to be used at!
They do have a lot of recipes there! Smile

DM

DM - Yes, I saw that on the pH. That also makes me wonder about mixing it with the LAA. I also checked with GOW, which is where I got the MAP and they recommend a pH of 7.0-8.5! http://www.gardenofwisdom.com/catalog/item/4073723/3856154.htm. I hadn't noticed that when I bought it.

I think I'll stick to the 15% C, E, Ferulic without the MAP (ok...maybe I'll try the jojoba one sometime too, since that one gets raves). I'll use the MAP in another way to preserve the pH.

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