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Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:54 pm  |
Without posting all the sites already linked to I have checked and all recommend the ph that Kelilu posted for Niacinamide, and also agree that Niacinamide and Glucosamine are the best synergistic blend. I would think that from
the information available on DIY sites that Niacinamide and LAA are not a compatible mix due to the ph incompatibility.
DM |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:47 am |
| I have been having problems making the Vit C serum now that I have replaced the glycerin with jojoba oil....I don't understand what is going wrong. The mixure is perfect when all done but then when I leave it overnight (whether I put in fridge or not)it separates and there's one big white blob on top and the oils on the bottom....yes I have been using SKB. I give it a really good shake and it kinda all blends back in but there is little white specks as if the LAA became "undissolved".From what I've been reading the SKB should've prevented this from occuring. I did not have this problem when using glycerin (did not like this at all though). Do you know how I can fix this? |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:59 am |
| dancar3 wrote: |
| I have been having problems making the Vit C serum now that I have replaced the glycerin with jojoba oil....I don't understand what is going wrong. The mixure is perfect when all done but then when I leave it overnight (whether I put in fridge or not)it separates and there's one big white blob on top and the oils on the bottom....yes I have been using SKB. I give it a really good shake and it kinda all blends back in but there is little white specks as if the LAA became "undissolved".From what I've been reading the SKB should've prevented this from occuring. I did not have this problem when using glycerin (did not like this at all though). Do you know how I can fix this? |
If you don't like Glycerin, you can replace it with Propylene Glycol. Personally, I wouldn't add oil to the basic Vitamin C recipe, it just complicates everything. It could be that the amount of SKB you're using is just not enough to combine the oil with the water. If you do want to use an oil, then I would just add an Oil Soluble Vitamin C to it. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:00 am |
without going back to many many posts, can you post your amounts? (re separation).
Oil and water will separate unless you have an emulsifying agent. Imagine mixing oil and water, you will most definitely have separation, you cannot mix the two without something that connects them... Plus, I hope you are using some sort of a preservative in anything that has water... |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:45 am |
Here's the recipe:
1 tsp LAA
3 tsp distilled h20
1 tsp SKB
1 tsp jojoba
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid
1/4 tsp vodka
1/8 tsp rosehip oil (instead of vit e)
1/2 tsp Hyaluronic Acid serum
I have the preservative (rh)and SKB for emulsifying...do I need to increase the SKB? I decided to add the jojoba after reading that others used it in place of the glycerine since it was not good for my oily face....it made me more shiney and greasy. I don't know anything about Propylene Glycol, is that ok for most types of skin? |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:42 pm |
| Summer_time wrote: |
Hi all...I so appreciate the recipes! And Kassy - you have been beyond generous!
I've had some problems with this recipe (15% Vitamin C, E + FA Serum with Jojoba)and I have finally come to believe it is the quality of my ingredients. Others seem to have no problems!
The short story is: my FA from skin actives never completely dissolves and the oil always separates out.
May I ask where you successful potion-crafters (who have made this particular recipe) got the following ingredients?
FA
SKB
Jojoba oil (some are yellow and that seems inconvenient, right?)
Vit E oil
One great thing...my Vit C dissolves 
Thanks in advance! |
Lotioncrafter will have all the ingredients by the end of 2 weeks from now, according to Jen! |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:01 pm |
| Is 1/4 tsp vodka enough to preserve this recipe? |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:19 pm |
| zverenok wrote: |
| Is 1/4 tsp vodka enough to preserve this recipe? |
The Vodka is there to dissolve the Ferulic Acid, it is not a preservative as such.
I DO use a preservative in my Vitamin C recipe, I use Optiphen, read about it here:
http://www.cosmeticsbusiness.com/story.asp?storycode=1070
However, I'm still not sure whether using a preservative is totally necessary if you're making the serum yourself, storing it in the fridge and using it up quickly. So if you don't want to use one, then don't - just keep an eye on the serum to make sure it hasn't oxidized. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:21 pm |
I am posting help with trying to find out why the ingredients seem to be separating after incorporating the jojoba oil. I am taking enough precautions w/ preserving my recipe in how it is stored and how long I keep it around.
Thanks Keliu, that's exactly what I've been doing. |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:40 pm |
| dancar3 wrote: |
I am posting help with trying to find out why the ingredients seem to be separating after incorporating the jojoba oil. I am taking enough precautions w/ preserving my recipe in how it is stored and how long I keep it around.
Thanks Keliu, that's exactly what I've been doing. |
I've never tried adding the Jojoba Oil - as I said above, I think it complicates things. You probably need to add a proper emulsifier to the solution - I'm not sure whether SKB is good enough at the job. I do add some SKB to help incorporate the 1/4 tsp of Vitamin E oil, but I still get a bit of separation. Let's face it, oil and water don't mix and I think to avoid separation, you'll have to find a suitable emulsifier. You could start by looking here:
http://www.bulkactives.com/categories/emulsifiers.htm |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:00 pm |
I agree we know oil and water do not mix, SKB isn't listed as an emulsifier so you may need to add one if using the recipe with Jojoba.
Another good source of information along with the one Kelilu suggested is:
http://www.makingcosmetics.com
HTH
DM |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:25 pm |
| Do you think polysorbate 20 might work? I use this for making my body/room sprays. If so, how much do you think should be added if making 1 ounce of the serum? Thanks! |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:33 pm |
| dancar3 wrote: |
| Do you think polysorbate 20 might work? I use this for making my body/room sprays. If so, how much do you think should be added if making 1 ounce of the serum? Thanks! |
Here is the information from makingcosmetics, the yellow color may caues issues and you would need to check if it alters your ph.
Description: Emulsifying agent consisting of laurate esters of sorbitol consisting of the monoester condensed with ethylene oxide(polyoxyethylene-20 sorbitan monostearate). Yellow liquid no or weak odor. Soluble in water, HLB Value: 16.7 (gives oil-in-water emulsions), pH: 5 - 7 (5 - 10 % aqueous solution). CAS# 9005-64-5.
INCI Name: Polysorbate-20.
Properties: Non-ionic emulsifier (enables water & oil to mix; effect increased when combined with cetyl alcohol or sorbitan stearate), dispersing agent, antistat thickener, solubilizer & stabilizer of essential oils.
Use: Can be added to formulas as is.
Applications: Creams, salves, ointments, protective creams, balms, pomades, lipsticks, mascaras, glosses. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:50 pm |
| Thanks for the info. After posting the question on the amount of poly that should be added....I'm sure I can answer my own question since I have a recipe for body/room sprays I make, and I'll just adjust the amount accordingly. I didn't realize how much the jojoba would alter this serum, perhaps I might look into the propylene glycol. |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:09 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| zverenok wrote: |
| Is 1/4 tsp vodka enough to preserve this recipe? |
The Vodka is there to dissolve the Ferulic Acid, it is not a preservative as such.
I DO use a preservative in my Vitamin C recipe, I use Optiphen, read about it here:
http://www.cosmeticsbusiness.com/story.asp?storycode=1070
However, I'm still not sure whether using a preservative is totally necessary if you're making the serum yourself, storing it in the fridge and using it up quickly. So if you don't want to use one, then don't - just keep an eye on the serum to make sure it hasn't oxidized. |
The thing, is when you can already "eye" the oxidation, it is too late. The degradation process can be in full stage before you can actually notice anything, and can do more damage than good. So I would definitely add a preservative, especially for myself. Anything that has water in it needs to have a preservative... |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:46 am |
| zverenok wrote: |
| The thing, is when you can already "eye" the oxidation, it is too late. The degradation process can be in full stage before you can actually notice anything, and can do more damage than good. So I would definitely add a preservative, especially for myself. Anything that has water in it needs to have a preservative... |
I agree unless you are going to use it in a 1-2 weak period you MAY be safe, but you are so right LAA does begin to oxidize before you can see any signs of color change. One other thing that gets overlooked is that if your serum is separating and you have to shake it every time you use it you are blending oxygen into the serum each time it's shaken speeding up the oxidation process, really this is true with most all antioxidant serums.
IMHO
DM  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:52 am |
Exactly! Thank you DM!
Natural and organic is nice and dandy, and I am all in support of that, but safety is first. |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:00 am |
| zverenok wrote: |
Exactly! Thank you DM!
Natural and organic is nice and dandy, and I am all in support of that, but safety is first. |
Thank You It is a trade off we need to weigh what is really harmful and decide the safest choice!
DM |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:51 pm |
Hey ladies I made my first batch of simple vitamin C serum, but it's not nearly as think as I expected it to be... I am not complaining, but I was just curious as to how thick and what the consistency of the serum should be....?
Thanks! |
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~Chellelynn~ |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:09 pm |
| chellelynn wrote: |
Hey ladies I made my first batch of simple vitamin C serum, but it's not nearly as think as I expected it to be... I am not complaining, but I was just curious as to how thick and what the consistency of the serum should be....?
Thanks! |
It is much lighter than a cream even a lotion, but not watery, as long as it stays all incorporated and doesn't separate you should be fine.
HTH
DM |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:28 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
I would think that from
the information available on DIY sites that Niacinamide and LAA are not a compatible mix due to the ph incompatibility.
DM |
Below are ingredients in a product by Jan Marini which contains both niacinimide and C (abscorbic acid).
Ingredients for Factor A Plus Lotion by Jan Marini
Deionized Water, SD Alcohol, Aloe Vera Gel, Butylene Glycol, Glycolic Acid and Ammonium Glycolate, Urea, Sodium PCA, Dimethicone, Hydroxypropyl Cellulose, Acrylates Copolymer, All Trans-Retinol, PEG-8 (and) Tocopherol (and) Ascorbyl Palmitate (and) Ascorbic Acid (Topical Vitamin C) (and) Citric Acid, Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Lactic Acid, Niacinamide, Inositol.
Hopefully 'Jan' knows what she's doing....  ! |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:34 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
I would think that from
the information available on DIY sites that Niacinamide and LAA are not a compatible mix due to the ph incompatibility.
DM |
Below are ingredients in a product by Jan Marini which contains both niacinimide and C (abscorbic acid).
Ingredients for Factor A Plus Lotion by Jan Marini
Deionized Water, SD Alcohol, Aloe Vera Gel, Butylene Glycol, Glycolic Acid and Ammonium Glycolate, Urea, Sodium PCA, Dimethicone, Hydroxypropyl Cellulose, Acrylates Copolymer, All Trans-Retinol, PEG-8 (and) Tocopherol (and) Ascorbyl Palmitate (and) Ascorbic Acid (Topical Vitamin C) (and) Citric Acid, Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Lactic Acid, Niacinamide, Inositol.
Hopefully 'Jan' knows what she's doing.... ! |
Marini is formulated properly; she has paid attention to the question of pH.
The ingredients list is incomplete IMO. Some of the basics are missing. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:44 pm |
| Lacy53 wrote: |
| sister sweets wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
I would think that from
the information available on DIY sites that Niacinamide and LAA are not a compatible mix due to the ph incompatibility.
DM |
Below are ingredients in a product by Jan Marini which contains both niacinimide and C (abscorbic acid).
Ingredients for Factor A Plus Lotion by Jan Marini
Deionized Water, SD Alcohol, Aloe Vera Gel, Butylene Glycol, Glycolic Acid and Ammonium Glycolate, Urea, Sodium PCA, Dimethicone, Hydroxypropyl Cellulose, Acrylates Copolymer, All Trans-Retinol, PEG-8 (and) Tocopherol (and) Ascorbyl Palmitate (and) Ascorbic Acid (Topical Vitamin C) (and) Citric Acid, Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Lactic Acid, Niacinamide, Inositol.
Hopefully 'Jan' knows what she's doing.... ! |
Marini is formulated properly; she has paid attention to the question of pH.
The ingredients list is incomplete IMO. Some of the basics are missing. |
Lacy - I certainly agree with you - I too believe it is formulated properly. I was showing that indeed niacinimide and LAA could be used together in the same product if the pH is addressed.
This was in debate by DarkMoon.
Jan Marini shows in the above product that it can and is done. Some basics are missing but that isn't the issue. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:01 pm |
Sis,
You really need to go back and read as I did not bring this issue to the attention of the members, after reading and actually doing my own research I simply agreed! Now as you have looked into this so thoroughly please tell us what is the ph of the JM product?
TIA
DM |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:09 pm |
So long as the base supports a pH of between 3 and 3.5, there are no problems and the actives will work synergistically.
HTH
Sis |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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