For Vitamin C Serum DIYers
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Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:27 pm

fawnie wrote:

Keliu wrote:

lilsigngrl wrote:

Once you wash and tone in the morning, how do you apply your vitamin C? And which brand do you use to make it yourself? Do you mix it in a moisturizer (base) or just buy and apply?
At night, you cleanse & tone and then, which first? RA or CP? Do you mix either one of those with moisturizers or do you buy a base? And do you need to let one sink in before you can apply the other or apply them consecutively?
One final question: once you get started on an "actives" routine like this, how long do you keep it up?
I have a BQ (LOVE IT!) and just bought a Dermal Tone after reading many rave reviews on this and other sites. Although I'm only 30, I'm trying to get rid of some sags after significant weight loss and am just hoping to make my skin look it's best (who isn't?).
Thanks, again, for all the great advice! Very Happy

My recipe for Vitamin C is:

1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid powder (available from Skinactives, Bulkactives etc.)
3 tsp distilled water
1 tsp glycerin
1/4 tsp Vit E oil

Apply after toning in the am. Wait 30mins, if possible, before continuing with moisturiser and sunscreen.

At night I use a prescription strength Retin-A, wait one hour then apply CP and follow up with emu oil as a moisturiser. Retin-A should also be applied to dry skin. As for the use of actives - I think a long-term approach is needed to see any results.

Keliu - I am not doubting you, but how did you find out that you have to wait 30 min before applying anything else after Vit C??

Info on pH and product application wait times
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18360&highlight=ph

Smile

free skin care · Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:16 pm

thanks havana8. I contacted Kassy also and she concurs. Appreciate your help, both.

free skin care · Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:27 pm

fawnie wrote:

Keliu - I am not doubting you, but how did you find out that you have to wait 30 min before applying anything else after Vit C??

There's a zillion posts on various wait times for various products floating around here somewhere. Perhaps if you do an advanced Google search on "wait times for actives" and put Essential Day Spa into the wanted website you may find it.

It all has something to do with normalising the Ph of the skin before layering the next product.

Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:29 pm

Keliu wrote:

fawnie wrote:

Keliu - I am not doubting you, but how did you find out that you have to wait 30 min before applying anything else after Vit C??

There's a zillion posts on various wait times for various products floating around here somewhere. Perhaps if you do an advanced Google search on "wait times for actives" and put Essential Day Spa into the wanted website you may find it.

It all has something to do with normalising the Ph of the skin before layering the next product.

The link is the second post above yours. Smile

free skin care · Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:09 pm

havana8 wrote:

Info on pH and product application wait times
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18360&highlight=ph
Smile

Havana8 - Thank you for that thread information. I did my search based on "layering actives" and wouldn't have ever come up with "wait times."

free skin care · Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:22 am

Thanks Havana8!!

I have a question I wonder if someone here could answer, since the pH thread is from a few years back:

Tangal wrote about how pH is irrelevant when using retinoids (vit A) or vit c as an antioxitant as opposed to as a skin treatment. My question is, what's the difference?

Thanks!

Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:13 pm

Hey everyone, I have been following this site for a while and this is my first post!

I just wanted to ask a question about PH levels. On the a couple sites I saw they seemed to suggest that to get the proper affect of vitamin C serums the Ph needed to be close to almost 2.0 PH to get more than just the antioxident properties of C. I'm specifically referring to the skinbiology page about CPs and Vitamin C serums and Tangals post on PH levels.

I am wondering because Kassay said one of her formulas tested out at around 3.3 ph and was curious, one, if there is a way to lower the PH to get closer to 2.0 and two, if that is even something I should do? And maybe you all have a different view on PH levels I should take in before diving into making my first C serum.

free skin care · Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:41 pm

Lutrell wrote:

Hey everyone, I have been following this site for a while and this is my first post!

I just wanted to ask a question about PH levels. On the a couple sites I saw they seemed to suggest that to get the proper affect of vitamin C serums the Ph needed to be close to almost 2.0 PH to get more than just the antioxident properties of C. I'm specifically referring to the skinbiology page about CPs and Vitamin C serums and Tangals post on PH levels.

I am wondering because Kassay said one of her formulas tested out at around 3.3 ph and was curious, one, if there is a way to lower the PH to get closer to 2.0 and two, if that is even something I should do? And maybe you all have a different view on PH levels I should take in before diving into making my first C serum.

Welcome to the forum Lutrell.. Very Happy

L-Ascorbic Acid must be formulated at 3.5 pH or below to penetrate deep into the skin... It doesn't have to be lower than that, and 2.0 would be much too irritating to the skin on a daily basis.

Keeping it between 3 and 3.5 pH is optimal for LAA.

There are several forms of vitamin C (LAA, MAP + THDA) To my knowledge LAA is the only one that is responsible for collagen synthesis, and works at the cellular level. The others are nice, but LAA is the worker bee of C.. Laughing

(Retail manufacturers would have you believe otherwise, and that all C derivatives are created equal, but that's simply not the case.)

I read a study (and posted it somewhere) that showed a synergistic effect when a formula of 10% LAA, 7% THDA, + 1% Vitamin E were formulated together... I posted a recipe somewhere for this.

Whenever you can get 2 or 3 anti-oxidants working together in an oil and water formulation, you will have a more stable product, that will treat the lipid as well as water parts of the cell. The best combination to accomplish this is LAA, Ferulic Acid, and Vitamin E + A.

You will find many great recipe's for all manner of DIY goodies here at EDS.. Have fun!

free skin care · Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:44 am

Hi sorry to bother you guys here again, but I just had a flash of brilliance: is it possible to mix vit C with HA? Would that alter pH? This way I could kill 2 birds with one stone and eliminate a step from my routine... Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:46 am

fat_swan wrote:

Hi sorry to bother you guys here again, but I just had a flash of brilliance: is it possible to mix vit C with HA? Would that alter pH? This way I could kill 2 birds with one stone and eliminate a step from my routine... Very Happy

HA's pH is around 7 (if I recall right)... You can use a small amount of HA in a C formulation, but never just on it's own.. Shock

If you use HA for any recipe, keep it at 1% of the entire formulation.

free skin care · Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:47 pm

Thanks KAssy! What do you mean not on its own? Don't PSF and GoW make pure HA serums?

free skin care · Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:54 pm

If there's too much HA in the vitamin C serum, the pH is too high.

HA can be used on its own. On its own =1% technically. The pure PSF and GoW serums are 1%.

fat_swan wrote:

Thanks KAssy! What do you mean not on its own? Don't PSF and GoW make pure HA serums?

free skin care · Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:02 am

Nimue wrote:

If there's too much HA in the vitamin C serum, the pH is too high.

HA can be used on its own. On its own =1% technically. The pure PSF and GoW serums are 1%.

fat_swan wrote:

Thanks KAssy! What do you mean not on its own? Don't PSF and GoW make pure HA serums?

Oh ok I see.. Idea

Thought "pure" meant 100%

Thank you!

free skin care · Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:34 am

Do you mean this is the same compound found in 302 and Remergent? Or do you mean lotioncrafter is the wholesale source for 302 and Remergent? Confused

Thanks!

bethany wrote:

TanyaB wrote:

Numie,

Where did you buy "tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate in an oil base"? I want it too Very Happy

TIA

Nimue bought hers at lotioncrafter.com...I bought some too, but haven't mixed it up yet. Thus is the same form of Vit C that is in 302 products, Remergent, etc.

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/Tetrahexyldecyl-Ascorbate-pr-16382.html

free skin care · Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:55 am

Kassy, sorry to bother you again Embarassed

You mentioned somewhere along this thread that one of the reasons (among many) that you chose to incorporate Viterol A in your vit C serum was because of it's nano-something delivery system. But I am having trouble understanding how that could enhance penetration/absorption of the other ingredients you mix in. From what I understand, a delivery system is the way specific ingredients are formulated to reach deep into the skin, right? So the Viterol A 'mix of ingredients' is encapsulated into tiny tiny nano sized bits than can cross the skin barrier. So if everything is already 'encapsulated' into nano pieces or whatever, how would that boost absorption of the other stuff (c, e, ferulic acid etc)?

Am I making sense? Thanks!

free skin care · Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:24 pm

At this point it's not even worth figuring out because DS Laboratories has discontinued that version of Viterol A Laughing

fat_swan wrote:

Kassy, sorry to bother you again Embarassed

You mentioned somewhere along this thread that one of the reasons (among many) that you chose to incorporate Viterol A in your vit C serum was because of it's nano-something delivery system. But I am having trouble understanding how that could enhance penetration/absorption of the other ingredients you mix in. From what I understand, a delivery system is the way specific ingredients are formulated to reach deep into the skin, right? So the Viterol A 'mix of ingredients' is encapsulated into tiny tiny nano sized bits than can cross the skin barrier. So if everything is already 'encapsulated' into nano pieces or whatever, how would that boost absorption of the other stuff (c, e, ferulic acid etc)?

Am I making sense? Thanks!

free skin care · Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:30 pm

Nimue wrote:

At this point it's not even worth figuring out because DS Laboratories has discontinued that version of Viterol A Laughing

fat_swan wrote:

Kassy, sorry to bother you again Embarassed

You mentioned somewhere along this thread that one of the reasons (among many) that you chose to incorporate Viterol A in your vit C serum was because of it's nano-something delivery system. But I am having trouble understanding how that could enhance penetration/absorption of the other ingredients you mix in. From what I understand, a delivery system is the way specific ingredients are formulated to reach deep into the skin, right? So the Viterol A 'mix of ingredients' is encapsulated into tiny tiny nano sized bits than can cross the skin barrier. So if everything is already 'encapsulated' into nano pieces or whatever, how would that boost absorption of the other stuff (c, e, ferulic acid etc)?

Am I making sense? Thanks!

Very true!

My thought prior to that, was the delivery system would take the rest of the ingredients I put in there, along for the ride.. Laughing

Just so you guys know, I'm learning as I go along with the rest of ya.. Very Happy

free skin care · Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:02 pm

fat_swan wrote:

Thanks Havana8!!

I have a question I wonder if someone here could answer, since the pH thread is from a few years back:

Tangal wrote about how pH is irrelevant when using retinoids (vit A) or vit c as an antioxitant as opposed to as a skin treatment. My question is, what's the difference?

Thanks!

I believe she means anti-oxidant v. exfoliant in this case. Please correct me if I am wrong.

free skin care · Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:48 am

Kassy_A wrote:

Nimue wrote:

At this point it's not even worth figuring out because DS Laboratories has discontinued that version of Viterol A Laughing

fat_swan wrote:

Kassy, sorry to bother you again Embarassed

You mentioned somewhere along this thread that one of the reasons (among many) that you chose to incorporate Viterol A in your vit C serum was because of it's nano-something delivery system. But I am having trouble understanding how that could enhance penetration/absorption of the other ingredients you mix in. From what I understand, a delivery system is the way specific ingredients are formulated to reach deep into the skin, right? So the Viterol A 'mix of ingredients' is encapsulated into tiny tiny nano sized bits than can cross the skin barrier. So if everything is already 'encapsulated' into nano pieces or whatever, how would that boost absorption of the other stuff (c, e, ferulic acid etc)?

Am I making sense? Thanks!

Very true!

My thought prior to that, was the delivery system would take the rest of the ingredients I put in there, along for the ride.. Laughing

Just so you guys know, I'm learning as I go along with the rest of ya.. Very Happy

Oh I see, thanks. So Dr Kassy, are you substituting something new for the Viterol A in you Vit C serum recipe?

free skin care · Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:36 pm

They arent doing the Viterol A anymore. I liked that stuff.

free skin care · Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:14 pm

fat_swan wrote:

So Dr Kassy, are you substituting something new for the Viterol A in you Vit C serum recipe?

Nope, I'm done with Viterol A. I posted a new C recipe on pg 8 (one page back!) including all instructions.. You can leave out whatever active doesn't suit you.

I've been using it for 2 weeks, and will be sticking with it.. It's nice!

free skin care · Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:25 pm

Kassy, is it because you don't like the V.A? Do you think your vit. c recipe is as good as the VitA.

free skin care · Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:41 pm

sherryf13500 wrote:

Kassy, is it because you don't like the V.A? Do you think your vit. c recipe is as good as the VitA.

You've obviously not seen all this debacle:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=31623&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=175

free skin care · Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:11 pm

Keliu wrote:

sherryf13500 wrote:

Kassy, is it because you don't like the V.A? Do you think your vit. c recipe is as good as the VitA.

You've obviously not seen all this debacle:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=31623&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=175

Amen to that.

free skin care · Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:53 am

Kassy_A wrote:

fat_swan wrote:

So Dr Kassy, are you substituting something new for the Viterol A in you Vit C serum recipe?

Nope, I'm done with Viterol A. I posted a new C recipe on pg 8 (one page back!) including all instructions.. You can leave out whatever active doesn't suit you.

I've been using it for 2 weeks, and will be sticking with it.. It's nice!

Oh whoops totally didn't remember reading that. Sorry for my redundant questions, and thank you!

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