For Vitamin C Serum DIYers
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:53 am

My understanding is that in order to be effective, a Vitamin C serum must contain at least 10% ascorbic acid, have a pH level around 3.5 and be stable.

When developing a homemade recipe, it seems importantant to make sure the end result produces at least a 10% concentration of Vitamin C.

I see that some recipes here create an emulsion of oils and water based ingredients, but my rudimentary understanding of basic chemistry is that it is important to know the hydrophilic-lipophilic balance of the emulsion you are creating. Apparently this has to do with how well the ingredients combine and stay mixed and effective.

I suppose that stability is enhanced through making small batches, storing them under cool conditions and discarding them at first sign of oxidation.

pH can be measured with a pH strip, but once you find the pH level of your serum is off, how do you adjust for that?

As far as L-ascorbic acid, it is my understanding that other forms of C which would be more stable, have proven to be less effective Sad

I wish this all were simple, it certainly would help my wallet. I don't like the idea of paying so much for my C serums, but then the idea of making my own - only to have it turn out to be ineffective....

free skin care · Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:39 pm

Here is a llink that was helpful to me:

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/store/HLB-Calculator-pr-16505.html

free skin care · Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:10 pm

Hi,

I am going to be making/using the '1 tsp of LAA into 2oz of water' recipe as my DIY Vit C serum, thanks to Kassy!

I am new to this, so sorry for the silly questions. What type of bottle is best to keep the serum in? a completely opaque bottle? or is a blue translucent/transparent type bottle like this ok? :

Also, is it only natural sunlight that can affect the Vit C serum or artificial lighting too?

free skin care · Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:20 pm

Kay2008 wrote:

Hi,
I am going to be making/using the '1 tsp of LAA into 2oz of water' recipe as my DIY Vit C serum, thanks to Kassy!

I don't recall posting a 2oz C serum recipe... Are you referring to the "C Toner" recipe?

For a true C serum you will want to store it in an opaque 1oz dropper or pump bottle, and keep it in a cool, dark place.

free skin care · Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:24 pm

Josee wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

Never 'heat' the water! For a very stubborn (old Crying or Very sad

) LAA, that is taking more than 30 minutes to dissolve, you can sit it in a "gently warmed" water bath only!!!!! Heat and light are what degrades LAA.

I don't know what's with my Vit C Sad

I ordered one from skinactives and it just took forever to dissolve and did not dissolve completely, even after leaving it overnight!

Then I bought one from bulkactives and the same thing happened... it actually dissolved even less!

However... with a little heat it did dissolve. But then I read this post Sad

Does anyone know what's the highest temperature that one can "heat the water" without affecting the ascorbic acid?

Does anyone have tips for making it dissolve?

Thanks!

Josee I was having trouble getting my LAA to dissolve also. Kassy suggested putting a couple of drops of vodka in the water and it worked. I have found that the LAA never seems fulling dissolved as I can see white powdery (definitely not the crystals I started with) in the glass but when I combine it with everything else it is never gritty.

Kay I would think those bottles will be great, especially if you are going to be making the c-serum every couple of weeks. I leave all my face stuff in a linen closet with no chance of direct sunlight, basically out of all light.

free skin care · Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:25 am

Kassy_A wrote:

Kay2008 wrote:

Hi,
I am going to be making/using the '1 tsp of LAA into 2oz of water' recipe as my DIY Vit C serum, thanks to Kassy!

I don't recall posting a 2oz C serum recipe... Are you referring to the "C Toner" recipe?

For a true C serum you will want to store it in an opaque 1oz dropper or pump bottle, and keep it in a cool, dark place.

Kassy_A wrote:

Thyckecutie wrote:

Can Vit C benefit from putting it on the body as well?

YEP!

Put 1 tsp of LAA into 2 oz (yields about 8%) of distilled water in a spritz bottle, add a few drops of witch hazel and shake till dissolved... Keep refrigerated, and make a new one once a week.

A little goes a long way so use sparingly. When fully absorbed, apply your moisturizer or sunscreen.

You can add more LAA if you want it stronger, I find the above sufficient without drying me out.

That's where I got it from ^^^

I am using mine on the body...

free skin care · Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:23 am

Ah, that's what I thought.. You had me confused when you called it a "serum"... Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:45 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Ah, that's what I thought.. You had me confused when you called it a "serum"... Very Happy

Yeah sorry about that! I'm new to this, so tend to get a bit muddled up Embarassed

Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:19 pm

Hiya Kassy

i got all my ingredients today for your skinceuticals vitamin c + E + ferulica acid and sea kelp. Ohh Im so excited about making it, i hope it works ok. Anyway in the second shot glass where i add the ferulic acid vitamin E and sea kelp it has a slight pale yellow tinge...would this be normal? It appears to be from the vitamin E. It is very faint yellow. I was just wondering when I mix it all together ( 2 shot glasses) will it remain pale yellow? How will I know if its oxidised?

Sorry to ask so many questions but Id like it to be good.

thanks

free skin care · Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:56 pm

misspointy wrote:

Hiya Kassy

i got all my ingredients today for your skinceuticals vitamin c + E + ferulica acid and sea kelp. Ohh Im so excited about making it, i hope it works ok. Anyway in the second shot glass where i add the ferulic acid vitamin E and sea kelp it has a slight pale yellow tinge...would this be normal? It appears to be from the vitamin E. It is very faint yellow. I was just wondering when I mix it all together ( 2 shot glasses) will it remain pale yellow? How will I know if its oxidised?

Sorry to ask so many questions but Id like it to be good.

thanks

When combined it will be an pale off white serum..And yes, the vitamin E oil is what keeps it from being pure white. To date, I haven't seen the 2nd step in the oxidation process which is color change, in any of the many serums I have made..(this includes personal friends who are also using the same recipe's time and again)..

If you do the recipe exactly as written, it should last you about 8 weeks, and still have no visible sign of oxidation.. (Keep in fridge if you are worried!)

The 2nd stage of oxidation regarding LAA is discoloration.. >pale amber>amber>brown>... Any LAA product, whether home made or purchased retail, will show the same course of degredation/oxidation as time goes by. To date, none of my homemade serums have ever changed color from day one till used up in the 2 to 3 months that 1oz lasts.

When you buy a product retail, you have no way of knowing when it was manufactured, and how long it has been sitting on a shelf somewhere.. It's for this very reason that one or two of the biggest most $$$$$ manufacturers try to cover their arse by saying "don't worry if it's amber, it's still effective".. That's hogwash!!! Not only will it be ineffective, but it will actually attract free radicals, and do your skin more harm than good.

The beauty of DIY C serum is that you are in full control of your product's strength, are assured the freshest most potent serum, and the investment is just pennies on the dollar... (And if for some strange reason you did see some color change going on, (which I highly doubt,) you would have know problem pitching it out, and making another.. It's the poor gals who pay huge amounts of money who hesitate to pitch their's out, and wind up doing more harm than good when they continue to use it.)

Okay, sorry to get so long winded.. I tend to get carried away on this topic.. Embarassed

free skin care · Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:57 pm

Ok Kassy..while you're here.....I'm going to attempt to make a serum with MAP as the C component. I read that it is more stable and (maybe) more powerful than LAA. But certainly less irritating.

http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/vitcderiv.html

But you know the pH of MAP is 7.0-8.5. I'm thinking that the addition of ferulic acid and Anti-Oxidant Booster will bring the pH down to the 3.5 range.....what do you think Kassy? Or is it only necessary to have the pH in that range
for LAA serum?

Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:48 pm

Hello, I been making the serum with distilled water, glycerin and MAP but it turns yellow immediatly. My MAP is pure white. Also I thought the MAP was the more stable of the vitamin C and the distilled water would be more viable. Shouldn't it turn yellow much slower? . Thanks

free skin care · Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:47 pm

I'm not a big fan of MAP and have only added it here and there to a serum or cream.. In fact the cream wound up smelling like hot dogs after a couple of weeks and I'm sure it was the MAP that caused it.

I don't think pH matters if you are using MAP alone, but I'm not positive.. I do know though, that you only need a 5% concentration (or at least that is what I have read.)

As for effectiveness, no other vitamin C derivative beats L-Ascorbic Acid. IMHO, LAA is to MAP, what Retin-A is to Retinol and never the twain shall meet.

Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:06 am

Kassy_A wrote:

misspointy wrote:

Hiya Kassy

i got all my ingredients today for your skinceuticals vitamin c + E + ferulica acid and sea kelp. Ohh Im so excited about making it, i hope it works ok. Anyway in the second shot glass where i add the ferulic acid vitamin E and sea kelp it has a slight pale yellow tinge...would this be normal? It appears to be from the vitamin E. It is very faint yellow. I was just wondering when I mix it all together ( 2 shot glasses) will it remain pale yellow? How will I know if its oxidised?

Sorry to ask so many questions but Id like it to be good.

thanks

When combined it will be an pale off white serum..And yes, the vitamin E oil is what keeps it from being pure white. To date, I haven't seen the 2nd step in the oxidation process which is color change, in any of the many serums I have made..(this includes personal friends who are also using the same recipe's time and again)..

If you do the recipe exactly as written, it should last you about 8 weeks, and still have no visible sign of oxidation.. (Keep in fridge if you are worried!)

The 2nd stage of oxidation regarding LAA is discoloration.. >pale amber>amber>brown>... Any LAA product, whether home made or purchased retail, will show the same course of degredation/oxidation as time goes by. To date, none of my homemade serums have ever changed color from day one till used up in the 2 to 3 months that 1oz lasts.

When you buy a product retail, you have no way of knowing when it was manufactured, and how long it has been sitting on a shelf somewhere.. It's for this very reason that one or two of the biggest most $$$$$ manufacturers try to cover their arse by saying "don't worry if it's amber, it's still effective".. That's hogwash!!! Not only will it be ineffective, but it will actually attract free radicals, and do your skin more harm than good.

The beauty of DIY C serum is that you are in full control of your product's strength, are assured the freshest most potent serum, and the investment is just pennies on the dollar... (And if for some strange reason you did see some color change going on, (which I highly doubt,) you would have know problem pitching it out, and making another.. It's the poor gals who pay huge amounts of money who hesitate to pitch their's out, and wind up doing more harm than good when they continue to use it.)

Okay, sorry to get so long winded.. I tend to get carried away on this topic.. Embarassed

Thanks for that Kassy. Its all mixed together now and is a milky white colour. Feel quite proud of myself. My LAA was dissolved in half an hour, I was expecting longer so that was a bonus. Ive kept it in my fridge and can't wait to use it. Thanks for your wonderful recipe.

free skin care · Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:46 am

misspointy wrote:

Thanks for that Kassy. Its all mixed together now and is a milky white colour. Feel quite proud of myself. My LAA was dissolved in half an hour, I was expecting longer so that was a bonus. Ive kept it in my fridge and can't wait to use it. Thanks for your wonderful recipe.

You're very welcome. Glad it worked out well for you.. Keep in fridge and give it a shake before using (which is good advice for any C product!)

free skin care · Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:18 pm

OK thanks Kassy.
Hmm....If MAP smells like hotdogs, then maybe that is what's making the SkinCeuticals C+E ferulic smell like it too...?

free skin care · Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:46 pm

fawnie wrote:

OK thanks Kassy.
Hmm....If MAP smells like hotdogs, then maybe that is what's making the SkinCeuticals C+E ferulic smell like it too...?

I was surprised by the smell myself, because I only heard that 'hot dog smell' referenced, by those using Skinceuticals.. Isn't that advertised as LAA?

Unless there is another common denominator that would cause it, I'm stumped.

free skin care · Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:10 pm

I've printed out about a dozen pages and making up a shopping list. Going to start with the Pre-Treatment Serum for LED Use.

Should I purchase the Hyaluronic Acid as a serum (NCN) or powder (GoW)? I am sure it makes a difference when formulating and I don't want get the wrong one.

free skin care · Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:50 pm

milbader wrote:

I've printed out about a dozen pages and making up a shopping list. Going to start with the Pre-Treatment Serum for LED Use.

Should I purchase the Hyaluronic Acid as a serum (NCN) or powder (GoW)? I am sure it makes a difference when formulating and I don't want get the wrong one.

I've only ever used the serum, and I believe I purchased it at TPF in an 8oz bottle.. I don't know the 1st thing about the powder, so be sure you know how to figure out what amount will equal one percent in your formulation, because I won't be any help to ya with the powder.

free skin care · Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:34 am

I thought a lot of this was put rather succintly by the Melbourne Dermatology website:

"You need the pure vitamin C molecule, delivered at the right concentration, held stable up until the moment of application, at the right pH, unadulterated by ingredients which exist only take up space within a container, mask deterioration or ineffectiveness.

From the 100s if not 1000s of Vitamin C products, there is a serious choice of less than 20, and that's before taking into account skin type and condition.
Keeping everything in focus, and with a view for effectiveness rather than purely cosmetic/"lifestyle" use, this area of skin treatment is far from being the minefield its so often claimed to be.
Its well worth your time and patience to get this right, because topical Vitamin C represents somewhere between 1/3rd to 1/6th of the equation needed to realise the best skin possible."

I would like to get this right because I also understand that oxidation often begins before the serums start to turn in color, so I am not inclined to use the color of the serum as an indicator of freshness Sad

BF

free skin care · Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:06 am

milbader wrote:

I've printed out about a dozen pages and making up a shopping list. Going to start with the Pre-Treatment Serum for LED Use.

Should I purchase the Hyaluronic Acid as a serum (NCN) or powder (GoW)? I am sure it makes a difference when formulating and I don't want get the wrong one.

milbader this is the place I bought the hyaluronic acid from, best price and some additional info at the bottom of product information

http://www.essentialwholesale.com/product_p/779.htm

free skin care · Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:07 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:

I thought a lot of this was put rather succintly by the Melbourne Dermatology website:

"You need the pure vitamin C molecule, delivered at the right concentration, held stable up until the moment of application, at the right pH, unadulterated by ingredients which exist only take up space within a container, mask deterioration or ineffectiveness.

From the 100s if not 1000s of Vitamin C products, there is a serious choice of less than 20, and that's before taking into account skin type and condition.
Keeping everything in focus, and with a view for effectiveness rather than purely cosmetic/"lifestyle" use, this area of skin treatment is far from being the minefield its so often claimed to be.
Its well worth your time and patience to get this right, because topical Vitamin C represents somewhere between 1/3rd to 1/6th of the equation needed to realise the best skin possible."

I would like to get this right because I also understand that oxidation often begins before the serums start to turn in color, so I am not inclined to use the color of the serum as an indicator of freshness Sad

BF

This entire post is dead on, and I am in total agreement with it..

Many times I'm asked to come up with a recipe that incorporates 'other' ingredients, and although I don't think it's necessary or very beneficial, I do it anyway simply because I am asked.. When I do it, I still check the pH, and don't post the recipe until I've reached the 3.5 or lower pH, with the ingredients being manipulated to accommodate that.

Long story short in my humble opinion on the 'C' subject is this; L-Ascorbic Acid is KING + the addition of vitamin E + Ferulic Acid make for the very best team effort. Anti-Oxidants are most effective working as a team, and offer a synergistic effect in a carefully prepared C serum...

The addition of a little SKB, and a few drops of vodka and Hyaluronic Acid along with C, E + FA, will give you a very stable, effective C serum, that will result in a brand new look to your skin as the months roll on..

Keep it simple, and you will reap the rewards! Save the other actives for a secondaary serum to use in the evening.. Wink

free skin care · Sat May 02, 2009 1:14 pm

I have a question about this part of the recipe:

Quote:

1 teaspoon Remergent DNA cream (You 302 girls, can substitute with your THDA product!)

Why these creams exactly and can I use something else until I have the money?

Thanks and sorry if this question has been asked over and over again in the rest of the thread :P

free skin care · Sat May 02, 2009 4:32 pm

Fox wrote:

I have a question about this part of the recipe:

Quote:

1 teaspoon Remergent DNA cream (You 302 girls, can substitute with your THDA product!)

Why these creams exactly and can I use something else until I have the money?

Thanks and sorry if this question has been asked over and over again in the rest of the thread :P

Fox, it would be tremendously helpful if you post the entire recipe you have questions about, because I tend to forget after a while.. I've posted to the forum, and privately shared more than 100 recipe's..

I believe the one you are referring to is a C serum that uses both LAA + THDA (oil + water soluble).. If memory serves, I incorporated 'Remergent DNA" into it, because it already contained THDA, FA and other ingredients that complimented that specific serum..

If you decide what you want to make, based on your skin concerns, I'll be glad to help you come up with a nice recipe...(Good, cheaper alternatives abound, for a good base to get you started.. If you are interested in a regular, effective C serum, well that is the cheapest thing you will ever make..

free skin care · Sun May 03, 2009 9:52 pm

I'm using the Vit. C spray/toner recipe on page 2 (I think) as part of my dermarolling for stretchmarks protocol (I'm actually using it from head to toe) and I've found a pleasant benefit.

I have keratosis pilaris on my arms that hasn't been helped by any of the typical acidic lotions. The Vit. C spray IMMEDIATELY made a 90% improvement. I've only been using it there for a couple days so I'm hoping the results will get even better. Regardless, this is a fantastic and surprising side effect!

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