For Vitamin C Serum DIYers
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free skin care · Sun May 17, 2009 9:22 pm

summer2004 wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

Here's my favotite C Serum (latest + greatest!)

15% C, E + Ferulic Acid Serum, 1oz

1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Vitamin E Oil
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Hyaluronic Acid
1 tsp SKB
1 tsp vodka
3 1/2 tsp H2O

Hi Kassy,

I'd like to buy all said ingredients from one shop so as to save freight charges.

Both Ferulic Acid & SKB are available in Skinactives.com; however, I can only find Ascorbic Acid there but not L-Ascorbic Acid.

Are those 2 types of Acid the same ?

Pardon my ignorance of chemistry!

Have a Great Sunday!

Vitamin C is known as ascorbic acid, L-Ascorbic acid, dehydroascorbic acid and the antiscorbutic vitamin

Chemically, it is called L-xyloascorbic acid and L-threo-hex-2-uronic acid g-lactone

Long story short, is any you find at a DIY venue will be good to use.. Just don't buy a vitamin C powder that is meant to be used as a supplement, because it's not the same. (None that I ever saw anyway..)

My 1st choice is L-AA, but I would by AA in a pinch too.

Tue May 19, 2009 6:30 am

[moving this post here in the interest of not duplicating current threads...]

LAT wrote:

Hi All

I would like to add a vitamin c serum to my skin care routine and thought I would try my hand at DIY. Does the following "recipe" look ok?

1 400IU natural vitamin e softgel
2 TBLS. monistat chafing relief powder gel
3/4 tsp l-ascorbic acid
pinch of ferulic acid powder

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated Very Happy

Thanks
Lin

free skin care · Tue May 19, 2009 8:40 am

Kassy_A wrote:

Here's my favotite C Serum (latest + greatest!)

15% C, E + Ferulic Acid Serum, 1oz

1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Vitamin E Oil
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Hyaluronic Acid
1 tsp SKB
1 tsp vodka
3 1/2 tsp H2O

Hi Kassy,

I have 2 questions:

1. Can I use Hyaluronic Acid powder instead of solution? If so, how much should I use? I'll dissolve it with Ferulic Acid with Vodka.

2. I am aware that F.A. can make the solution cloudy white; however, some gals have reported that Skinceutical's CE Ferulic. is clear. How comes? Also, will cloudy white serum stop me from knowing that it has oxidized?

I'd be grateful if you'd shed light on these questions.

free skin care · Tue May 19, 2009 9:21 am

havana8 wrote:

[moving this post here in the interest of not duplicating current threads...]

LAT wrote:

Hi All

I would like to add a vitamin c serum to my skin care routine and thought I would try my hand at DIY. Does the following "recipe" look ok?

1 400IU natural vitamin e softgel
2 TBLS. monistat chafing relief powder gel
3/4 tsp l-ascorbic acid
pinch of ferulic acid powder

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated Very Happy

Thanks
Lin

L-Ascorbic Acid is water soluble, and wouldn't dissolve well in that mix.

You could replace the L-AA with an oil soluble vitamin C, which would give you the anhydrous solution you are (probably) looking for.

free skin care · Tue May 19, 2009 9:28 am

summer2004 wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

Here's my favotite C Serum (latest + greatest!)

15% C, E + Ferulic Acid Serum, 1oz

1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Vitamin E Oil
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Hyaluronic Acid
1 tsp SKB
1 tsp vodka
3 1/2 tsp H2O

Hi Kassy,

I have 2 questions:

1. Can I use Hyaluronic Acid powder instead of solution? If so, how much should I use? I'll dissolve it with Ferulic Acid with Vodka.

2. I am aware that F.A. can make the solution cloudy white; however, some gals have reported that Skinceutical's CE Ferulic. is clear. How comes? Also, will cloudy white serum stop me from knowing that it has oxidized?

I'd be grateful if you'd shed light on these questions.

My serum (with the above recipe) turns out to be an off white, almost opaque solution. 1oz usually lasts about 5 or 6 weeks (I use liberally), and remains the same color throughout.

The 2nd stage of oxidation in relation to an L-Ascorbic Acid formulation is a darkening of color.. If you don't see that, don't worry. It would be apparent even in an opaque serum.

As far as what to do with the powder form of HA, I can't help you there, because I've never used it. All I know is that you don't want it to be more than 1% of the final solution.. (Wherever you purchased it, should have the information you need to do the math.)

free skin care · Tue May 19, 2009 10:19 pm

SO I ran out of propylene glycol, I'm broke, and I'm not too excited about PG's origins (it's a chemical with some questionable health concerns). I have glycerine, and used it in my initial c serum. Yuck. Sticky and gave me little bumps. Hence my reason for buying the PG.

So, how about mixing just ascorbic acid with the distilled water, and foregoing the preservative/thickener? Okay, or is there a need for PG for penetration? I've heard different things.

I'll probably try it, but thought I'd ask if others had used just C and h2O, and if so, how were the results?

I know it won't keep for more than a day at most, but I'm okay with that for now.

free skin care · Wed May 20, 2009 7:01 am

Hi Kassy,

Thanks for the quick reply Very Happy

I got my recipe for anhydrous vitamin c from the smart skin care site (anti-aging skin care infopack). It says the l-ascorbic acid is best used in anhydrous base and gives several recipes but they are all in grams and I don't have a scale. I wanted to make sure my measurements were correct so that the percentage and ph were correct. Confused

I have never made my own skin care before so this is a first attempt for me. If it is difficult to make a anhydrous vitamin c (or even possible) then I will follow your recipe.

what is your opinion on using anhydrous solution vs vitamin c/water solution?

I am curious to hear from anyone who has tried making a anhydrous vitamin c recipe.

Thanks again
LAT

free skin care · Wed May 20, 2009 7:57 am

Kassy,

Thank You so MUCH!!!

free skin care · Wed May 20, 2009 8:34 am

I was going to make an anhydrous C serum, but couldn't get my head around the fact that most recipes for it call for a silicone base.

From all that I know about silicones - their function is to sit on top of the skin and form a barrier - so as to keep other substances from penetrating the skin.

It mystifies me as to how you can suspend Vitamin C in a silicone base and expect the Vitamin C to be able to penetrate the skin. I have asked this question several times and have never gotten an answer.

BF

free skin care · Wed May 20, 2009 2:59 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:

I was going to make an anhydrous C serum, but couldn't get my head around the fact that most recipes for it call for a silicone base.

From all that I know about silicones - their function is to sit on top of the skin and form a barrier - so as to keep other substances from penetrating the skin.

It mystifies me as to how you can suspend Vitamin C in a silicone base and expect the Vitamin C to be able to penetrate the skin. I have asked this question several times and have never gotten an answer.

BF

I thought I answered this for you somewhere.. Perhaps it was someone else... I can't keep track anymore.. Laughing

Yep, your assessment of silicone is correct, and it pretty much does just sit on the skin.. But if you want an anhydrous (water free) formulation, you are limited to silicones and/or oils.. (As far as I'm aware.)

There are several vitamin C derivatives, so you 1st have to decide which you want to use, and then make your base to support that formula.. (Do you want to use an oil, or water soluble form of vitamin C????)

Personally, I'm sticking with L-AA in a water base, because that is what all the studies say is most effective, and actually penetrates the skin..(It's also working amazingly well for me!) I'm sure the oil soluble C derivatives are nice enough, and will improve the look of the skin, but at my age I'm more interested in the sure fire ways to kick up collagen synthesis.

If you know which form of 'C' you want to use, I'll help you figure out a DIY recipe.

free skin care · Thu May 21, 2009 1:16 pm

I was wondering something....

... If I use a glycolic acid solution of a ph of... let's say 2.5-3.5.... then wouldn't it make more sense to put the glycolic acid first, then wait, and THEN put the Vit C serum, especially since for glycolic acid to be effective the skin needs to be oil-free and my Vit. C serum has Vitamin E as well??

free skin care · Thu May 21, 2009 2:49 pm

Josee wrote:

I was wondering something....

... If I use a glycolic acid solution of a ph of... let's say 2.5-3.5.... then wouldn't it make more sense to put the glycolic acid first, then wait, and THEN put the Vit C serum, especially since for glycolic acid to be effective the skin needs to be oil-free and my Vit. C serum has Vitamin E as well??

You will get more bang for your buck, if you use glycolic at night.. But if you want to layer it, I think you should still put the "C" on 1st.. (glycolic and the like, put over just about anything, will push things in, but more importantly, they work to get rid of the crud..) At least, that is how I understand it..(My reasoning is because the glycolics etc.. work to break up the dead cells uppermost on your skin, so should be the last applied.. hmm

!)

I'd love to hear other thoughts... Confused

free skin care · Thu May 21, 2009 3:24 pm

Hi Kassy,

Yes, you did help me when I was considering an oil based serum, thank you!

I was also thinking about the silicone based serum, but as I mentioned, had the concern about skin penetration. I sent questions about this to Skinmedica (theirs is silicone based) and several derms, but got no answer - I suspect no one knows whether active ingredients can penetrate the skin when suspended in silicone - or if they know how, they aren't saying Wink

BF

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 7:14 am

Kassy

How much is 1/3 cc/ml and what would the ph be?

1 tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Vitamin E Oil
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Hyaluronic Acid
1 tsp SKB
1 tsp vodka
3 1/2 tsp H2O

Thanks Smile

LAT

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 7:35 am

Barefootgirl,

Found this info on lotion crafter site

Based on a study by Drs. Fitzpatrick and Rostan published in Dermatological Surgery, March 2002

using 10% Ascorbic Acid and 7% Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, a lipid soluble analog. These are combined in an anhydrous polysilicone gel base which acts as a “dermal patch” releasing the water soluble acid slowly and the lipid soluble analog rapidly.

Fri May 22, 2009 8:46 am

Im about to make another batch of Kassy's Vit C+E+ferulic acid serum....I cocked up somewhere last time and ended up with a watery serum...maybe I added too much water?? I dont know what I did wrong...But Im having another go this evening and will follow all instructions to the letter!! I finished off a bottle of vodka on Wed so just had to go out to buy another one..... Laughing

life's hard isnt it?? Laughing

But I bought it for cosmetic reasons ....fantastic excuse that is!!

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 10:24 am

Hi misspointy
Yes, my serum is "watery" too. It is a thin serum. I just shake it well to disperse everything and use it that way. Don't know if this is "correct" but it seems to work ok.

I'm wondering if GelmakerPlus by Lotioncrafters would thicken it up more and help me to emulsify the vit E caps - mine just form globs no matter how I try to shake and stir...........Kassy?

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 11:41 am

Hi LAT,

yes, I was aware of that "dermal patch". I suspect it's some sort of trade secreted process that we cannot emulate in a home environment.

BF

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 1:06 pm

fawnie wrote:

Hi misspointy
Yes, my serum is "watery" too. It is a thin serum. I just shake it well to disperse everything and use it that way. Don't know if this is "correct" but it seems to work ok.

I'm wondering if GelmakerPlus by Lotioncrafters would thicken it up more and help me to emulsify the vit E caps - mine just form globs no matter how I try to shake and stir...........Kassy?

I *puposely* kept this serum ultra thin, because it's able to absorb the skin super quick, which everybody prefers in their morning routine..

If you prefer more of a true serum just make this change..

- Increase the HA to .5 cc
- Increase the SKB to 2 tsp
- Decrease the H2O to 2 1/2 tsp
- Decrease the vodka/alcohol to 1/2 tsp.

Believe it or not, it's probably the HA that is causing the globs.. It's a swift PITA to work with. Try mixing it in with the water phase next time, after the L-AA has dissolved.. (I know the only way I have any success with it, is when I do it really gradually, drop by drop..)

The vitamin E disperses right into the SKB with no drama I find..

What are the ingredients for "Gel Maker Plus"? Sounds v e d d y interesting..

Too bad they changed the nice Viterol A formula we were all loving.. That made an awesome, effective base...

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 1:24 pm

The current Viterol A serum offered for sale is not the same serum used in your fomulation?

Now I am really confused Embarassed

Fri May 22, 2009 4:10 pm

Hullo,
I remember reading the Viterol thread - phew - basically, if I remember rightly, there seemed to be different versions with different ingredients, causing everyone to lose confidence with the product. However, I decided to go with Kassy's Viterol C recipe anyway (Newbie-nerves: it was so user-friendly), and just hedged my bets by buying off EDS (tube with screw top, lotion with mauve tinge). It seemed a) most like the one everyone was initially happy with, and b) not the one in the pump dispenser, that many were unhappy with (and all that was available on Australian online sites). So who knows - I'm happy with my serum and it's a lovely consistency. But with more experience, I may graduate to Kassy's Latest and Greatest. Very Happy

Hope this helps.

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 6:30 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

What are the ingredients for "Gel Maker Plus"? Sounds v e d d y interesting..

Too bad they changed the nice Viterol A formula we were all loving.. That made an awesome, effective base...

Yeah, too bad is right!

Here ya go, Toots, the GelmakerPlus from Bulkactives.com:
http://www.bulkactives.com/gelmakerplus.htm

It is "polyacrylate" by any other name, not so natural, but if I only need a little bit....maybe??? Does it look like anything you would use, Kassy? Sorry to tinker with your recipe, but you know how we are..... =)

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 7:27 pm

Not to worry fawnie, I'm all for "tinkering"... I wish more of you would share your concoctions so I could learn a thing or two also..

The gel maker looks like great stuff, but I'm thinking it will definitely sit on the skin, as all silicone(ish) ingredients do.. They feel so great and smooth going on, with the best consistency ever, but then 8 hours later when you wash your face, as soon as the water hits you, that tell tale smooth slime, is still there.. Sooo, I don't think *for me*, I'd be confident that the L-AA has fully penetrated my skin. (It could be fab for an Ester C serum though..

In the mean time, here's the lowdown on the gel maker, copied from LC;

Usage: Ready-to-use liquid for cold process thickening and emulsifying. No heat or neutralisation required.

Suggested percentage: 0.5 to 5%

Aqueous gel: 0.7% to 1.8% (depending on desired viscosity)

Aqueous gel with PH less than 5 (acidic): 3.8% (step 1: Gelmaker Plus with water. Step 2: Add dissolved actives)

Aqueous gel with PH more than 7 (alkaline): 4.5% (step 1: Gelmaker Plus with water. Step 2: Add dissolved actives)

Gel creams / Emulsions with up to 50% oil: 1.8% to 5% depending on desired viscosity and Ph level. (can be added into fat or water phase, or at the end of emulsification at temperatures of 70-75oC). Step 1: Gelmaker Plus with oil. Step 2: add water, create emulsion. Step 3: Add dissolved actives.

Stability: Stable between PH 2.5 and PH 11 (suitable for both l-ascorbic acid and DMAE products).

Thickening ability: Thickens well in the presence of solvents (glycerin, glycol, ethanol). Thickens very well in acidic PH. Thickens in alkaline PH.

Emulsifying power: Emulsifies vegetable oils, silicone oils, mineral oils, and esters (up to 50% oil)

Sensory profile: Creamy and consistent texture, silicone type glide-on spreading, non-greasy soft film on skin, white and glossy emulsion.

ETA:... Technically, I believe it's a polymer (nice word for silicone.. Laughing

)

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 7:46 pm

well bummer! Thanks Kassy anyway for the lowdown on it.

free skin care · Fri May 22, 2009 9:05 pm

For the Viterol gals questions;

Sounds like you have the right one (of 3) cheesetoastie.. If you still have the insert, check to see if 'Ferulic Acid' is listed.. If so, that is the one I made the C serum with which was really nice as well as so easy.

mil, we had such a time with 3 different formulas of "Viterol A For Face" running around.. I was the 1st to find out about it, when I placed my 2nd order for it, and received an entirely different product with the same name..Naturally, I posted right away, so everyone would be aware of the *imposter*.. Laughing

After much drama, and no straight answers to the dilemma, most of us just threw in the towel on it...(The original formula was the only one that would support the C serum recipe, keeping pH and absorbability optimal.)

The search continues, for another easy does it semi DIY C serum base... (I'm pretty picky though, so if I find something with no contraindications, I'll post another recipe.)

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