For Vitamin C Serum DIYers
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free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:25 pm

Kassy that's awesome, SPF 8! I didn't know that.
So there's even more benefits to your lovely serum. Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:28 pm

SandraD4880,

I would also agree about adding Vitamin E as C and E work in synergy and the E acts as a short term preservative!

IMHO
DM
Smile

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:44 pm

Mishey wrote:

Kassy that's awesome, SPF 8! I didn't know that.
So there's even more benefits to your lovely serum. Very Happy

SkinCeuticals does not have any SPF value, if you use the term SPF as it is used in sunscreens. Rather the product "delivers 8 times the skin's natural protection against photoaging ... neutralizing free radicals" according to numerous sites which sell the serum. (I can't find that number quoted on the official SkinCeuticals site though.)

SPF refers to protection from UVB rays.

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:19 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

SandraD4880 wrote:

Hello, first time poster here.

I've been doing tons of research to try and make my own vitamin c serum. I do not want to use glycerin, propylene glycol or any sort of alcohol.

I tried to find a formula using the following..
L-ascorbic acid powder
distilled water
hyaluronic acid

Can this work? Also, could I maybe add vitamin E oil? I've looked at so many different recipes and none really match what I had in mind so maybe this formula won't work. I already know I need a pH around 2.5 for it to absorb into my skin, how to store, shelf life, etc. I just would prefer HA than any other moisturizing agent.

Thanks for any help/advice!

Adding the vitamin E to what you have in mind is a very good thing, but you need something to emulsify it or the oil will just rise to the top..

I use "SKB" (Sea Kelp Bioferment) in most of my C serums, which actually has *acted* as an emulsifier to incorporate the vitamin E...

You can just use the L-AA, distilled water and HA as a stand alone serum, but I would then recommend that you apply a thin layer of vitamin E oil over it..

For a 15% serum you could try;

1 tsp L-AA
1 oz distilled water

You would then use part of the 1oz of distilled water to dissolve/incorporate the required HA for a final concentration of 1% HA.

Once the HA has formed a thinnish gel, you would slowly incorporate it into your dissolved L-AA/distilled water stage..

You would definitely need to keep this refrigerated, and use within a week, because you have no preservation power with just these ingredients.

Adding vitamin E + Ferulic Acid to this C serum would give you not only some preservative qualities, but also give you an 8% SPF boost.. And of course you will always get better mileage with antioxidants when you *team* them up.. They aren't meant to be lone rangers.. Crying or Very sad

Anyhoo, that's my 2 cents.. Cool

I have some LAA in the refrigerator. Could I combine with distilled water and use as a short shelf-life toner until I get the stuff to put together a C & E ferulic mixture?

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:54 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

Mishey wrote:

Kassy that's awesome, SPF 8! I didn't know that.
So there's even more benefits to your lovely serum. Very Happy

SkinCeuticals does not have any SPF value, if you use the term SPF as it is used in sunscreens. Rather the product "delivers 8 times the skin's natural protection against photoaging ... neutralizing free radicals" according to numerous sites which sell the serum. (I can't find that number quoted on the official SkinCeuticals site though.)

SPF refers to protection from UVB rays.

Maybe I should have been more technical in my assertion and just copied this;

The results of this study also validate an earlier study showing that C+E+ferulic acid offers eight-fold UV photoprotection to skin (Lin et al., 2005).

Lin JY, Selim MA, Shea CR, Grichnik JM, Omar MM, Monteiro-Riviere NA et al. (2003) UV photoprotection by combination topical antioxidants vitamin C and vitamin E. J Am Acad Dermatol 48:866–874 | Article | PubMed | ISI |

I just like to get my point across to the majority as simply as I can, keeping in mind that a great many of our members are non English speaking... (To me spf 8 is much more understandable to the masses than '8 fold UV photo protection').... I'm not here to impress anybody with how smart I am, or how well I can copy and paste a bunch of boring studies or quotes...

Please don't turn this into a "Skinceuticals" issue, that is NOT what this thread is about... Sad

There are a gazillion threads on that subject, where I'm sure the photo protection properties have already been discussed.

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:01 pm

Sisareno; just be sure to keep in fridge and toss after 4-ish days.

By any chance do you have any "Viterol" still laying around? If yes PM me, and I'll give you an idea or 3... Laughing

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:36 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

Lacy53 wrote:

Mishey wrote:

Kassy that's awesome, SPF 8! I didn't know that.
So there's even more benefits to your lovely serum. Very Happy

SkinCeuticals does not have any SPF value, if you use the term SPF as it is used in sunscreens. Rather the product "delivers 8 times the skin's natural protection against photoaging ... neutralizing free radicals" according to numerous sites which sell the serum. (I can't find that number quoted on the official SkinCeuticals site though.)

SPF refers to protection from UVB rays.

Maybe I should have been more technical in my assertion and just copied this;

The results of this study also validate an earlier study showing that C+E+ferulic acid offers eight-fold UV photoprotection to skin (Lin et al., 2005).

Lin JY, Selim MA, Shea CR, Grichnik JM, Omar MM, Monteiro-Riviere NA et al. (2003) UV photoprotection by combination topical antioxidants vitamin C and vitamin E. J Am Acad Dermatol 48:866–874 | Article | PubMed | ISI |

I just like to get my point across to the majority as simply as I can, keeping in mind that a great many of our members are non English speaking... (To me spf 8 is much more understandable to the masses than '8 fold UV photo protection').... I'm not here to impress anybody with how smart I am, or how well I can copy and paste a bunch of boring studies or quotes...

Please don't turn this into a "Skinceuticals" issue, that is NOT what this thread is about... Sad

There are a gazillion threads on that subject, where I'm sure the photo protection properties have already been discussed.

Agreed; the study done by Lin et al does demonstrate a 8-fold increase in photoprotection. But that is not the same as SPF. Sometimes simplifying things leads to misinformation.

The study conducted by Lin was done at the Duke University Medical Center under the guidance of Dr. Sheldon Pinnell, who eventually lended his findings to SkinCeuticals, who developed their C E Ferulic serum. Whenever those three ingredients are combined into a serum using that formulation as a guideline, the science will relate to the original formula (meaning SkinCeuticals will naturally be brought up).

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:52 pm

Okee dokee, now can we move on... perhaps back to the DIY vitamin C serums this thread is intended for?

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:58 pm

Lacy53 wrote:

Kassy_A wrote:

Okee dokee, now can we move on... perhaps back to the DIY vitamin C serums this thread is intended for?

Agreed; the study done by Lin et al does demonstrate a 8-fold increase in photoprotection. But that is not the same as SPF. Sometimes simplifying things leads to misinformation.

I think if claims as important to skin health as SPF are made the correct scientific information should be encouraged by all!

IMHO
DM

Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:04 am

hey guys. i hope someone will see my post amongst all these other informational posts around and help me here.

what is ascorbic acid exactly. i ordered a huge bottle of 1000g vitamin c capsules. if i opened up of these, would that be considered ascorbic acid? can i use that in my serum?

and will it only last for a week. because there r no preservatives in it?

i hope i make sense with my questions. thanks lovely ladies. i loooove this forum.

free skin care · Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:23 pm

ellet wrote:

hey guys. i hope someone will see my post amongst all these other informational posts around and help me here.

what is ascorbic acid exactly. i ordered a huge bottle of 1000g vitamin c capsules. if i opened up of these, would that be considered ascorbic acid? can i use that in my serum?

and will it only last for a week. because there r no preservatives in it?

i hope i make sense with my questions. thanks lovely ladies. i loooove this forum.

LOL!

L-Ascorbic Acid is a wonderful antioxidant, which works great for the skin, and is at it's best when teamed up with other complimentary antioxidants, i.e. vitamin E and Ferulic Acid. L-AA is notoriously unstable once it's exposed to water + oxygen, so yes if you just mixed your 'capsule' with distilled water, it would oxidize fairly rapidly.

As a rule I don't use "supplements" to formulate with, so I'll leave that question to the members who've found 'ascorbic acid crystals' that have no filler ingredients. If you are using vitamin c from a 'capsule' though, you would need to do the math to figure out how much is needed to arrive at the optimal 15% serum concentration...

If you decide to go with the L-AA that is designed for use in DIY products, I recommend this one, which is not only effective, but a cinch to formulate with;

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/ascorbic-acid-ultrafine.html

It is my humble opinion that L-AA is only as good as the company it keeps, and I don't feel that on it's own with just water, it will give any significant benefit, because it's incapable of addressing the 'lipid' portion of a skin cell.. (In other words, you'll only be doing half the job.. Sad

)

Hope that makes sense, because I have no intention of posting the pages of studies and articles I've read over the years, that brought me to these conclusions... Very Happy

Oh, and BTW, we have quite a few 'gentlemen' on the forum who can (and do), teach us ladies a thing or 10... Very Happy

Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:27 pm

hey Kassy,

glad i made you laugh. haha
well i'm in saudi arabia, and lets see if i can find that around!

thanks kassy for your explanation.

l-asscorbic acid here i come!

free skin care · Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:23 pm

Thanks for the help, I will look into all of those ingredients.

2 more questions...
Is LAA same as AA? I read that it wasn't but the SA at the health food store said it was the same.

Also, on this site in another thread it said something about only having concentration of 1% HA in the serum because too much can cause bacterial formation (in the skin or bottle, IDK) and it would do more harm than benefit the skin.

3rd question I just thought of...
Is one superior to the other - cobalt or amber glass bottles?

I can't wait to get started once I get everything squared away!

Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:32 pm

re-posting for rehner

rehner wrote:

i am new to the diy scene. I've been using Vivier Vit C & E Serum but am going to attempt to make one of Kassy's recipes. My question is the amber bottles I purchased have plastic dropper tops. Will the plastic harm the serum. Originall I thought I was getting bottles with full glass droppers. I'm ready to make but will wait to hear from an experienced diyer.

Welcome to EDS, rehner. Smile

free skin care · Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:34 pm

havana8 wrote:

re-posting for rehner

rehner wrote:

i am new to the diy scene. I've been using Vivier Vit C & E Serum but am going to attempt to make one of Kassy's recipes. My question is the amber bottles I purchased have plastic dropper tops. Will the plastic harm the serum. Originall I thought I was getting bottles with full glass droppers. I'm ready to make but will wait to hear from an experienced diyer.

Welcome to EDS, rehner. Smile

Welcome rehner,

All my bottles (dropper) have always come with a glass dropper, but the top is plastic and many have plastic squeeze bulbs which are difficult to keep from ever contacting the serum inside! I am not aware of any interaction between ascorbic acid and plastic! There are so many different plastics it would seem of they were sold for DIY purposes then they should be fine! If you are that concerned do you have any used serum bottles (dark) that you can sterilize and use?

DM

free skin care · Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:51 pm

SandraD4880,

Thanks for the help, I will look into all of those ingredients.

2 more questions...
Is LAA same as AA? I read that it wasn't but the SA at the health food store said it was the same.

This is a bit of a contensious issue amongst DIY'ers If you Google L ascorbic acid you will come up
with ascorbic acid! A PHD biochemist on a different site says they are the same! No fillers as that is really important!

Also, on this site in another thread it said something about only having concentration of 1% HA in the serum because too much can cause bacterial formation (in the skin or bottle, IDK) and it would do more harm than benefit the skin.

My best source for concentrations is at
http://www.makingcosmetics.com

The site is an excellent source for information about ingredients, they also have over 100 recipes there for free! I believe you are correct about too high a concentration.

3rd question I just thought of...
Is one superior to the other - cobalt or amber glass bottles?

The biggest difference in my humble opinion is the cobalt blue are much more costly! As long as you are storing it in dark glass bottles you are fine.

I can't wait to get started once I get everything squared away!

HTH
DM
GOOD LUCK Smile

Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:38 pm

DarkMoon wrote:

havana8 wrote:

re-posting for rehner

rehner wrote:

i am new to the diy scene. I've been using Vivier Vit C & E Serum but am going to attempt to make one of Kassy's recipes. My question is the amber bottles I purchased have plastic dropper tops. Will the plastic harm the serum. Originall I thought I was getting bottles with full glass droppers. I'm ready to make but will wait to hear from an experienced diyer.

Welcome to EDS, rehner. Smile

Welcome rehner,

All my bottles (dropper) have always come with a glass dropper, but the top is plastic and many have plastic squeeze bulbs which are difficult to keep from ever contacting the serum inside! I am not aware of any interaction between ascorbic acid and plastic! There are so many different plastics it would seem of they were sold for DIY purposes then they should be fine! If you are that concerned do you have any used serum bottles (dark) that you can sterilize and use?

DM

re-posting for rehner—p.s. you want to click the "Quote" button or green "Post Reply" button at the top right corner of the screen versus the "Report" button when replying. Welcome!

rehner wrote:

I disposed of my empty bottles as I finished them If only I'd known I'd be a diyer!! oh well. I'll try these ones. Thanks

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:34 pm

Thanks Havana!

rehner wrote:

I disposed of my empty bottles as I finished them If only I'd known I'd be a diyer!! oh well. I'll try these ones. Thanks

Hopefully if they are meant for either DIY or even liguid medication they shouldn't interact with the serum!

Good Luck!
DM Smile

Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:36 pm

How do you buy the vit E
- bottle liquid form
- vit E capsules and is there different strengths? Rehner

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:44 pm

rehner wrote:

How do you buy the vit E
- bottle liquid form
- vit E capsules and is there different strengths? Rehner

rehner,
I have the pure liquid in a bottle, there those who use gel-caps, you need to check as some have other oils inside mixed with the vitamin E! There are many different strengths measured in IU-international units.

DM

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:51 pm

rehner,
I am reposting this from earlier in the thread as these are the forms of Vitamin E sold speciffically for use in making your own cosmetics, these aren't the only possibilities as many use oils from the health food store or gel-caps without fillers!

HTH
DM:)

DarkMoon wrote:

Sorry for the cut and paste job but this may explain the different forms of Vitamin E

From:
http://www.makingcosmetics.com

Vitamin E d-alpha tocopherol
Description: Natural origin, contains low quantities of other vegetable oil constituents due to the raw materials or natural antioxidants. Clear viscous brown liquid, faint odor. Soluble in alcohol & oil, water insoluble. Activity 750 IU per 1 g solution (about 1 ml). CAS# 59-02-9.

INCI Name: Alpha tocopherol.

Properties: In products: active especially in cosmetic products but less on the skin (less stable than synthetic dl-alpha-tocopheryl acetate), ideal to stabilize oils and fats in products (prevents rancidity). On the skin: antioxidant (protects from damages by reactive oxygen radicals & UV rays), moisturizing & antiaging effect (improves skin surface relief), soothing & antiinflammatory properties, promotes epithelisation & enzyme activity.

Use: 0.5-2.5% final concentration for skin effects, 0.1-0.5% for stabilizing oils in products.

Application: All kinds of skin care products,

Vitamin E (dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate)

Vitamin E dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate
Description: Water-insoluble vitamin E formed by esterification of acetic acid & tocopherol. Purity >98%. pH 6-8. Activity: 1000 IU per 1 g solution (about 1 ml). Clear viscous yellow liquid, faint odor. Soluble in alcohol & oil, water insoluble. CAS# 58-95-7.

INCI Name: Tocopheryl acetate.

Properties: On the skin: provides antioxidant activity only on the skin (tissue esterases need first to cleave off acetate to form active vitamin E), potent antioxidant (protects from damages by reactive oxygen radicals & UV rays), increases SPF, moisturizing & antiaging effect (improves skin surface relief), soothing & anti-inflammatory properties, promotes epithelisation & enzyme activity (faster wound healing).

Use: Add to to water phase. Typical use level 1-10%.

Application: All kinds of skin care products including sun care & makeup

Vitamin E d-alpha tocopherol Is unadulterated yet less stable according to what I am reading.

You can read more on the website

HTH
DM

Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:33 pm

KASSIE you are a genius! After reading through just about every page in this thread I feel confident enough to make this myself..
I'm planning to do this:

3/4ths tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
1/4th tsp Ferulic Acid
.5tsp vodka
2 tsp Sea kelp bioferment
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Vitamin E Oil (2 capsules?)
3 1/2 tsp Distilled H2O

This would put the serum at about 12% vitamin C right? I also wanted to add CoQ10 but don't know how to fit it in or what amount..

Also, my vitamin e has Gelatin (non bonvine) and Glycerin.. I think the Glyerins okay but don't know about the Gelatin... ? And without the Hyaluronic acid I hope it won't be too drying..but I'm hoping the SKB makes up for that.

free skin care · Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:56 pm

Not Kassy but - CoQ10 is oil soluble so I wouldn't go trying to add it to your Vitamin C Serum, you'd really be complicating everything. I add it to my Emu Oil, which Dr. Pickart also advocates.

Also, I'd be inclined to use pure Vitamin E Oil instead of capsules that have additives. It's easily found at the pharmacy.HTH.

Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:22 am

Sorry I didn't mean to direct that post only to Kassie =) This might be a stupid question but if Coq10 is oil soluble, woulden't it work with the vitamin e oil? hehe

But I guess I'll stay away from it for now only bc I don't have PH testers and I'm basing the recipe purely on Kassies...So, can't really afford to experiment. Have you guys found the serums to be exfoliating or drying at all? I'm definitely trying to avoid both of those, as my skin is severely over exfoliated at the moment...I'm hoping the C will kind of help repair some damage done by a peel a couple weeks ago.

free skin care · Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:17 am

Cupcakez, that looks like a great formula. I may try it myself the next time. Let us know how it goes.

cupcakez wrote:

KASSIE you are a genius! After reading through just about every page in this thread I feel confident enough to make this myself..
I'm planning to do this:

3/4ths tsp L-Ascorbic Acid
1/4th tsp Ferulic Acid
.5tsp vodka
2 tsp Sea kelp bioferment
1/3 cc/ml (.3) of Vitamin E Oil (2 capsules?)
3 1/2 tsp Distilled H2O

This would put the serum at about 12% vitamin C right? I also wanted to add CoQ10 but don't know how to fit it in or what amount..

Also, my vitamin e has Gelatin (non bonvine) and Glycerin.. I think the Glyerins okay but don't know about the Gelatin... ? And without the Hyaluronic acid I hope it won't be too drying..but I'm hoping the SKB makes up for that.

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