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free skin care · Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:53 pm

Many oils become rancid rather quickly! So research your oils!

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=459638

NOTCH wrote:

This information is very factual. If you read back through many of my posts over the past months you can see that I've been talking about "inherently unstable oils" a lot. These oils are very prone to oxidation. The oxidation makes them break down into smaller chemical chain compounds such as ketones and aldehydes. These small chain compounds smell bad, and that is known as being "rancid". This information brings more to light, the fact that many people can be allergic to these smaller chain compounds as well. And remember, these unstable oils tend to break down quickly, so whatever the claim was that went with that product, you can throw it out the window when it breaks down under oxidation. It's just not the same material anymore.

There is one item that is somewhat incorrect in their information. There is no way for formulators to make an inherently unstable oil...stable. No amount of antioxidants of any type can stop an unstable oil from breaking down and become rancid. Countless research lab trials of oils of all types on an Oxidative Stability Index machine has proven this to be true. In some cases, adding antioxidants actually sped up the breakdown process! So, if you buy a product with unstable oils in it, and see things like "BHT", Vitamin E, and other "antioxidants" in the ingredients list, it's a mistaken attempt by the formulator to keep the unstable oils stable. It just won't work.

Instead, look for products with less than 5% polyunsaturated fatty acids in the formula. This would include such items as High Oleic Sunflower, Meadowfoam, Macadamia Oil and some others. And, Jojoba, which is a liquid wax ester, is also inherently stable.

Here is a brief list of typical cosmetic oils that are "inherently unstable" and will break down into small chain compounds to go rancid:

hemp, chia, kukui, flax, soybean, walnut, wheat germ, evening primrose, safflower, grape seed, corn oil, sesame, rice bran, almond, cocoa butter, cottonseed, palm oil, avocado... and others.

There is a very good article in Cosmetics and Toiletries Magazine, publication date 01-July-97 that does a very good job of describing oxidatively unstable oils.

Quote:

The ability of a product to resist oxidation is an important component of customer satisfaction; a stable formula will help ensure that the desired functionality and appearance of the product will not be significantly altered over time because of exposure to air. The product will remain fresh and deliver the selected fragrance, or lack thereof, when the consumer inevitably lifts the container for a sniff.

John

And from wikioedia

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rancidification?wasRedirected=true

Rancidification is the chemical decomposition of fats, oils and other lipids. There are three basic types of rancidity. Hydrolytic rancidity occurs when water splits fatty acid chains away from the glycerol backbone in glycerides. Oxidative rancidity occurs when the double bonds of an unsaturated fatty acid react chemically with oxygen. Microbial rancidity refers to a process in which micro-organisms such as bacteria use their enzymes, including lipases, to break down chemical structures in the fat. In each case, these chemical reactions result in undesirable odors and flavors.

Free fatty acids produced by hydrolysis can undergo auto-oxidation. Oxidation primarily occurs with unsaturated fats by free radical-mediated processes. These chemical processes can generate highly reactive molecules in rancid foods and oils which are responsible for producing unpleasant and noxious odors and flavors. These chemical processes may also destroy nutrients in the food. Under some conditions, rancidity and the destruction of vitamins occurs very quickly.

Antioxidants are often added to fat-containing foods in order to delay the onset or slow the development of rancidity due to oxidation. Natural antioxidants include flavonoids, polyphenols, ascorbic acid (vitamin C) and tocopherols (vitamin E). Synthetic antioxidants include butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA), butylated hydroxytoluene (BHT), propyl gallate and ethoxyquin. The natural antioxidants tend to be short-lived, so synthetic antioxidants are used when a longer shelf-life is preferred. The effectiveness of water-soluble antioxidants is limited in preventing direct oxidation within fats, but is valuable in intercepting free-radicals that travel through the watery parts of foods. A combination of water-soluble and fat-soluble antioxidants is ideal, usually in the ratio of fat to water.

In addition, rancidification can be decreased, but not completely eliminated, by storing fats and oils in a cool, dark place with little exposure to oxygen or free-radicals, since heat and light accelerate the rate of reaction of fats with oxygen. The addition of antimicrobial agents can also delay or prevent rancidification due to the growth of bacteria or other micro-organisms.

free skin care · Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:37 pm

Garden of Wisdom has some guidance on the oxidation properties of the various oils, so I have been using that as a guideline.

I store oils between uses in the fridge, but after making the concoction, I leave it out for the couple days that it is in use (make a few days worth of the home brew at a time) I does feel like it absorbs more quickly at room temps

Thanks, BF

free skin care · Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:43 pm

LMAO!!!

I'm not at all surprised that John would poo-poo all oils *except* the 3 he formulates with, in fact it's common practice with him.. Furthermore, he doesn't formulate with vitamin C that I'm aware of, so I'd take his thought (if any) on that with a grain of salt.

The Wikipedia info paste is regarding food, which is hardly a worthwhile comparison to our purposes here.

The majority of us typically make up a 1oz serum which will likely last around 6 weeks. Furthermore we are always careful of storage, and do our best to keep exposure to the harmful elements minimal. (For me that means 1oz pump bottles, which takes care of the oxygen problems, and my aqueous solutions are always refrigerated.)

I stand by my previous post, and would only add that I took for granted that we are ALL smart enough to pitch out what smells bad without being told... Wink

free skin care · Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:50 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:

Garden of Wisdom has some guidance on the oxidation properties of the various oils, so I have been using that as a guideline.

I store oils between uses in the fridge, but after making the concoction, I leave it out for the couple days that it is in use (make a few days worth of the home brew at a time) I does feel like it absorbs more quickly at room temps

Thanks, BF

Thanks BF

I agree as far as a small batch and not wanting to apply cold serum! Me either, I have found many don't realize they need to be careful with oils they buy weather from a skincare site online or a health food store, I have read many questions regarding how to saftly store the oil used in all our concoctions!

DM Smile

free skin care · Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:02 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

LMAO!!!

I'm not at all surprised that John would poo-poo all oils *except* the 3 he formulates with, in fact it's common practice with him.. Furthermore, he doesn't formulate with vitamin C that I'm aware of, so I'd take his thought (if any) on that with a grain of salt.

The Wikipedia info paste is regarding food, which is hardly a worthwhile comparison to our purposes here.

The majority of us typically make up a 1oz serum which will likely last around 6 weeks. Furthermore we are always careful of storage, and do our best to keep exposure to the harmful elements minimal. (For me that means 1oz pump bottles, which takes care of the oxygen problems, and my aqueous solutions are always refrigerated.)

I stand by my previous post, and would only add that I took for granted that we are ALL smart enough to pitch out what smells bad without being told... Wink

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps John chose those oils to formulate with simply because his education, years of experience in formulating cosmetics, and his own personal research lead him to conclude that those 3 oils were the best? Perhaps you have put the cart before the horse, so to speak.

I know Barefoot is an experienced DIYer, so the information on oils is probably known to her. However, to newbies and less-experienced DIYers, I am sure the information is welcome. As this discussion is about THDA rather than L-AA, it is quite possible that people would choose to make more than 1 ounce at a time since that ingredient is much more stable. In that case the 6-week usage would not apply.

Furthermore, when using oils to formulate, it is not the length of time that you use your product that matters. Rather, it is the age of the oil you have (meaning how long it has been since you purchased it and when you originally opened the bottle). In that case, storage is important. Not everyone buys new oil every time they make a new recipe.

The principles of rancidity apply to both cooking oils and cosmetic grade oils. Polyunsaturated oils tend to go rancid quickly, regardless of use. Unrefined (cold-pressed) do so even quicker. Storing oils away from heat, light and air is a valid precaution. I have yet to see any informed explanation of the difference between "cosmetic grade" and "food grade" raw ingredients.

Although the THDA recipe includes no water, it is still subject to oxidation due to exposure to air each time you use the product. An airless/vacuum pump system would eliminate that issue. However, these bottles are not suitable for some DIY products.

free skin care · Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:23 pm

Well howdy Lacy... We actually have bets going on how fast you were going to jump in here to find fault with me.... Laughing

(I win ladies and gentlemen..)

Perhaps you would like to share your thoughts with John about his beloved 'Jojoba Oil' that you shared with me when I recommended that to folks... (As I recall it was about 2 pages worth of copy and paste, telling everyone what a horrid poison it was...)

You might want to put your 'research' skills to work here regarding John/Notch, so you "don't put the cart before the horse" running to his defense... While you're at it search out "John C Hill" which was his previous alias... If you are really on, you will also be able to pick out his 'wife's' glowing product reviews, acting as a customer..

So NO, it never occurred to me to consider John chose his oils based solely on his research and experience... I on the other hand am confident that I've done my homework in every regard...

Have you whipped up any lovely DIY concoctions yet, or are you simply here for antagonistic purposes? (BTW, that's a rhetorical question)..

free skin care · Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:50 pm

Where to buy "tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate in an oil base"And how to do it

free skin care · Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:42 pm

Is it the best way to try out a DIY vit. C serum using the basic recipe of half teaspoon ascorbic acid, one glycerin and two distilled water...?
Many thanks!

free skin care · Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:52 pm

I have re-read the latest posts and I'm completely lost... yet by the tone I think I would rather be lost,... Neutral

I have asked a simple question about vit. C homemade serum (very simple question by the way, may have been answered before actually but it is such a long post...!)
Lots of hugs, A.

free skin care · Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:18 pm

ATester, here are two recipes that I jotted down early in my Vit C serum journey. Very Happy

10% Simple C Serum
1/4 tsp LAA (ascorbic acid)
1/4 tsp glycerin
1 1/2 tsp distilled water

15% Simple C Serum
1 tsp LAA
3 tsp distilled water
2 tsp glycerin

Dissolve LAA into the water stirring frequently (can take up to 45 min. Ten add the glycerin. Stir well, keep in dark dropper bottle, store in fridge. May add a few drops of Vit. E to the glycerin prior to mixing. Vit E makes it more stable. I, personally, didn't keep it in the fridge and made a new batch each week. If it turns yellow, it's time to make another batch. Luke warm water dissolves the crystals faster and easier than cold. Best of luck!

free skin care · Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:57 pm

beautyrose wrote:

Where to buy "tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate in an oil base"And how to do it

You can purchase from here:

http://www.bulkactives.com/ascorbyltetraisopalmitate.htm

I add 24 drops of Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to 30 ml of Pomegranate Oil. But you can use any other carrier oil of your choice.

free skin care · Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:59 pm

cupcakez wrote:

... I'm basing the recipe purely on Kassies...So, can't really afford to experiment. Have you guys found the serums to be exfoliating or drying at all?

I've been making & using one of Kassy's DIY C serums (C, E, Ferulic) in the a.m. and while I enjoy it very much, it makes my face peely, although it doesn't have the same effect on my hands & chest. It's possible that my formerly oily skin now needs a night time moisturizer, so I'm going to try that, but I was also thinking that a THDA and jojoba formula might work as a non-peeling anti-oxidant. Any opinions? I'm looking for something for daily use under sunscreen and make-up.

free skin care · Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:53 pm

'Tess', you can definitely increase the jojoba and decrease the H2O in the C,E,FA recipe, which will make it more moisturizing. You can also use less L-AA which will lessen the exfoliation a lot.

Using the oil soluble (THDA) is also a good option. Even alternating water based and oil based, and cutting down to 3 or 4 times a week might be a wise choice for you. (I only use mine 3 or 4 times per week and haven't had any peeling or irritation.. I'm also rhino hyde and my skin takes anything I dish out to it... Laughing

'ATester', If your skin is at all on the dry side you might like a tsp or so of glycerin, but just so you know, most of us find it too greasy and sticky. (I do for sure and seldom use it.)

You can reduce the amount of glycerin in any of the recipe's and just increase the water by the same amount. For reference; 6 tsp liquid equals 1oz. (Don't count the powder portion.)

Sorry your post was lost in the confusion... Crying or Very sad

If you ever have specific questions for me I'm a PM away... I check this thread if I pass it in the 'daily topics', but I don't look forward to it as I used to. (I have enough drama in my real life... Laughing

)

free skin care · Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:48 pm

Thank you very much Tonia and Kassy_A! Well, thanks to nearly everyone around here! Very Happy

I shall do some test and trial with the glycerin then and see how I get on (go through periods of greasy skin and then suddenly dry and flaky, probably because of the creams I try out to deal with the greasy issue! Confused

)

Kassy_A, would like to help you on 'real life'! Wink

I've learned a ton from your postings in this forum, so many, many thanks. So the same as you said to PM whenever I have a doubt (very grateful for that BTW, Smile

),... I must say the same for whatever.

Many hugs, A.

free skin care · Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:01 am

Keliu wrote:

beautyrose wrote:

Where to buy "tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate in an oil base"And how to do it

You can purchase from here:

http://www.bulkactives.com/ascorbyltetraisopalmitate.htm

I add 24 drops of Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to 30 ml of Pomegranate Oil. But you can use any other carrier oil of your choice.

Sorry kind of got lost and confused. This is a form of C? Is it as effective as LAA?

free skin care · Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:58 am

Kassy_A wrote:

'Tess', you can definitely increase the jojoba and decrease the H2O in the C,E,FA recipe, which will make it more moisturizing. You can also use less L-AA which will lessen the exfoliation a lot.

Using the oil soluble (THDA) is also a good option. Even alternating water based and oil based, and cutting down to 3 or 4 times a week might be a wise choice for you. (I only use mine 3 or 4 times per week and haven't had any peeling or irritation.. I'm also rhino hyde and my skin takes anything I dish out to it... Laughing

Thanks, Kassy. I hadn't even considered substituting Jojoba into the C,E,Ferulic serum. Brilliant! I'll try both that and the alternating application.

free skin care · Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:04 am

oranges wrote:

Sorry kind of got lost and confused. This is a form of C? Is it as effective as LAA?

THDA is the oil soluble form of vitamin C... From what I've read those who sell it would have you believe it's as effective as L-AA... I don't happen to agree, and believe L-AA is King of the "C"s.

On the other hand, I believe incorporating more than one form of C in a serum is a good thing too. In a nutshell (which is purely my opinion based on my own research), I believe only L-AA can stand alone in the *right* serum as far as C goes... For me the right serum takes into consideration both the water and lipid parts of the cell, and also contains vitamin E and FA.. (Antioxidant team work is a must and why it's effective IMHO.) There needs to be more than one AO, so they aren't spent as soon as they neutralize a free radical..

Hope that makes sense in just plain talk... Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:23 am

Yes thank you. I've been making your c,e,f jojoba recipe since mid summer and have had fantastic results. I all the sudden got worried that something "better" might have been posted Smile

free skin care · Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:30 am

LOL! Nope, that was the last one I posted and I'm still using it as well... I haven't heard even one complaint on it, so you know what they say; If it ain't broke.... Laughing

Don't worry, if I come up with a better one, you guys at SKT will hear it too.. Very Happy

free skin care · Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:48 am

Hi! Here is another place where you can buy this.

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/tetrahexyldecyl-ascorbate-BV-OSC.html

Keliu wrote:

beautyrose wrote:

Where to buy "tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate in an oil base"And how to do it

You can purchase from here:

http://www.bulkactives.com/ascorbyltetraisopalmitate.htm

I add 24 drops of Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to 30 ml of Pomegranate Oil. But you can use any other carrier oil of your choice.

free skin care · Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:49 pm

oranges wrote:

Yes thank you. I've been making your c,e,f jojoba recipe since mid summer and have had fantastic results. I all the sudden got worried that something "better" might have been posted Smile

What!

There is a cef jojoba recipe and I don't have it... Where the he!! have I been. OMG. Must have it. Help.

free skin care · Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:15 am

sister sweets wrote:

oranges wrote:

Yes thank you. I've been making your c,e,f jojoba recipe since mid summer and have had fantastic results. I all the sudden got worried that something "better" might have been posted Smile

What!

There is a cef jojoba recipe and I don't have it... Where the he!! have I been. OMG. Must have it. Help.

That's so funny. I feel exactly the same way. I too have somehow missed the addition of jojoba oil??? Off to check the recipe thread.

free skin care · Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:05 am

I just made my sixth batch of serum and for the first time, it turned out perfectly. So, I'm going to tell you all the mistakes I've made so the newbies can get it right the first time.

1. LAA dissolves better in slightly warm water. If the water is cold, it might not ever dissolve. It shouldn't be hot, just slightly warm. Five seconds in the micro will do it. Warm it before you add the LAA, not after. Heating the LAA in the microwave makes it go bad faster (you know it's gone bad when it turns yellow). For some reason, it turns yellow if you microwave the water with the LAA in it but not if you warm the water before you add the LAA. If you forget to warm the water first, you can heat it by putting the glass in a larger glass of warm water.
2. Always use vodka (or some form of alcohol) to dissolve the ferulic. If your ferulic has clumps, mash it against the side of the container with a spoon to get rid of the clumps before formulating.
3. Some of the recipes call for Hyaluronic acid. This is Hyaluronic Acid Serum, not powder. If you purchase the powder you will have to add a tiny bit of the powder to distilled water and mix, mix, mix to get a serum. Then add that serum to the recipe.
4. If you are using a recipe with SKB, this method blends everything together perfectly:

Dissolve LAA in water.
Dissolve FA in vodka.
Add SKB to FA/vodka, and stir. Put it in the microwave for 6 seconds. Take it out and stir it again. Stir in the oil. Stir in the glycerin. Stir in the LAA (make sure it is dissolved first). Stir in the HA.

I tried mixing the LAA, Water, FA, and vodka in one glass, the remaining ingredients in another, and combined the two. This bombed! I was never able to get the ingredients to fully combine. The method above works MUCH better.

Best of luck! HTH.

free skin care · Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:49 am

sister sweets wrote:

What!

There is a cef jojoba recipe and I don't have it... Where the he!! have I been. OMG. Must have it. Help.

Here ya go Sis!

15% Vitamin C, E + FA Serum with Jojoba, 1oz
1 tsp L-AA
1 tsp SKB
1 tsp Jojoba Oil
3 tsp H2O
1/4 tsp Ferulic Acid
1/4 tsp Vitamin E Oil
1/4 tsp Vodka or Witch Hazel (vodka is best and purest though.)

Using 2 shot glasses; In glass #1 dissolve L-AA in the distilled H2O. (I'd suggest a warm water bath while stirring till dissolved if you must.

Glass #2; In goes the Ferulic Acid, followed by vodka. Stir a few seconds. (It should just look like a yellowish opague serum.) Now add and stir in each of the remaining ingredients blending each in one at a time, starting with SKB first. (I find I get a smoother, more even serum when I warm the SKB in the microwave a few seconds, till a bit liquidy.)

When the L-AA has fully dissolved (looks like clear water) in glass #1, combine both phases together while slowly adding and stirring till contents of both glassed are combined.

Here is what it looks like finished; (Creamy whitish and opaque, with a nice serumy texture.) Many of you have PM'd asking what the C serums I make look like, so now you have it..

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm311/shutterbug2112/IMG_2174.jpg

*Note* I've had no physical sign of oxidation while leaving this serum at room temperature. It's now been 9 weeks. So I'm comfortable recommending a cool, dark place and to use up within 8 weeks. Keep exposure to air and light at a minimum as with any C serum!

ETA: The stability of this serum at room temp is not only my experience, but has been the case with many DIY'ers, not only here at EDS but elsewhere also! It's also been the favorite!

free skin care · Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:55 pm

If you're going to add Jojoba Oil to the Vitamin C recipe, I'd be tempted to add a couple of drops of Oil Soluble C to the Jojoba - this way you'd have both forms of C in one recipe. What do you think?

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