| Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:19 pm  |
| semayden wrote: |
SC, the thing is to try to use what knowledge we have about Lumigan to see what might be causing this.
You say that normal dark circles/purplishness is caused by thin skin and underlying blood vessels.
Then you say that Lumigan actually seems to give 'superficial skin discoloration'.
My question would be, how do you know that the former is not the case for you and others? By this I mean the 'thin skin and vessels showing through' effect could quite possibly be what is taking place with the Lumigan.
We've already been reminded of possible peri-orbital fat loss, yes? Also, is it not possible that as the Lumigan increases (how, we don't quite know) it's activity in the lashline - that this same activity may lead to an increase in bloodflow, leading to a kind of congestion in some people and so to purple lids?
On the other hand, if the darkening/purpling is due to increase in melanocyte production in the follicles - I suppose that could backtrack into surrounding tissue, couldn't it?
Sorry, I am not a scientist - just interested and frustrated on your behalf.
I suppose I just think it may be worth at least trying an inexpensive product that supposedly decreases dark circles - just in case it does help to alleviate the problem...
Reading back on this post, I was tempted to delete it as a load of rubbish - but decided to throw it out to you, in case there's a small crumb of helpful thought in the mix!  |
semayden, you definitely have a point there. I most definitely do not know anything for sure, and I should stop assuming that things are the way they first appear. You are right, it could very well be coming from "beneath" the skin.
I did post the question in a couple of glaucoma forums, perhaps we will hear from other users who are more experienced with the product. I will keep everybody up to date if I get any responses. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:13 am |
Here is what the glaucoma doctor responds on the glaucoma board. Nothing new there, really.
"The prostaglandin analogues (Xalaatan, Lumigan, Travaprost) are well known to make light brown, or hazel, eyes darker - - like getting a suntan. (Pure very light blue eyes don't get darker, and really dark brown eyes can't get darker, either.) This side effect, and the tendency to make eyelashes grow longer are side effects well known among doctors and patients alike. Any darkening seems to be permanent. But that's the eyes themselves.
Less well known, and less frequent, is that the skin of the eyelids can also get a dark discoloration. All that can be done is to stop using the drops to keep it from getting worse, but discuss with your doctor so he can prescribe something else for your glaucoma that doesn't cause this side effect. The fortunate thing is that it seems that, unlike the iris darker color, the skin color returns to normal - - but slowly over months perhaps.
As I said, this side effect is not very frequent, so many doctors don't know about it. But if you need treatment, your doctor should consider some other medication than a prostaglandin analogue." |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:00 am |
I looked up Latanoprost (Xalatan) just to see if that maker is more thorough in their side effect warnings, and they state:
Warnings
Xalatan Sterile Ophthalmic Solution has been reported to cause changes to pigmented tissues. The most frequently reported changes have been increased pigmentation of the iris, periorbital tissue (eyelid) and eyelashes, and growth of eyelashes. Pigmentation is expected to increase as long as Xalatan is administered. After discontinuation of Xalatan, pigmentation of the iris is likely to be permanent while pigmentation of the periorbital tissue and eyelash changes have been reported to be reversible in some patients. Patients who receive treatment should be informed of the possibility of increased pigmentation. The effects of increased pigmentation beyond 5 years are not known.
Precautions General
Xalatan Sterile Ophthalmic Solution may gradually increase the pigmentation of the iris. The eye color change is due to increased melanin content in the stromal melanocytes of the iris rather than to an increase in the number of melanocytes. This change may not be noticeable for several months to years (see WARNINGS). Typically, the brown pigmentation around the pupil spreads concentrically towards the periphery of the iris and the entire iris or parts of the iris become more brownish. Neither nevi nor freckles of the iris appear to be affected by treatment. While treatment with Xalatan can be continued in patients who develop noticeably increased iris pigmentation, these patients should be examined regularly.
Animal Studies
In monkeys, latanoprost has been shown to induce increased pigmentation of the iris. The mechanism of increased pigmentation seems to be stimulation of melanin production in melanocytes of the iris, with no proliferative changes observed. The change in iris color may be permanent.
Ocular administration of latanoprost at a dose of 6 µg/eye/day (4 times the daily human dose) to cynomolgus monkeys has also been shown to induce increased palpebral fissure. This effect was reversible upon discontinuation of the drug.
During clinical trials, the increase in brown iris pigment has not been shown to progress further upon discontinuation of treatment, but the resultant color change may be permanent.
Eyelid skin darkening, which may be reversible, has been reported in association with the use of Xalatan (see WARNINGS).
Xalatan may gradually change eyelashes and vellus hair in the treated eye; these changes include increased length, thickness, pigmentation, the number of lashes or hairs, and misdirected growth of eyelashes. Eyelash changes are usually reversible upon discontinuation of treatment.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/xalatan-ophthalmic-solution.html |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:58 am |
Obviously, I can only speak for myself here, but when I read this sort of information, it sends red flags up for me.
I recognize that most "drugs" come with a raft of urgent warnings - but I usually wouldn't take those drugs purely for cosmetic purposes and hopefully over a shorter time frame.
My understanding with this product is that you have to keep using it to maintain the effects (?)
There are only two ways to get rid of dark circles due to skin that gets thinner as we age (alsp exacerbated by the fat loss under the eye that comes with age) - you either need to thicken the skin somehow - through collagen rebuilding (peels, dermarolling, retinoids - I think all these will possibly help) or by adding a filler to the tear troughs to "sit on top" of the blood vessels so that they don't show through as much.
It almost signs like the discoloration from the Lumigan comes from a staining type action.
Even if you apply it to your upper lashes, then shut your eyes while you sleep - of course the product is going to migrate into your eyes and the surrounding area - it's a liquid, folks 
The only way to possibly eliminate that side effect might through making the product into a thick gel of some kind that just sits on the lashes and doesn't melt or migrate.
Personally, as I said - I am going to take a step back for now.
The side effects concern me and not only that:
I've had green eyes all my life they are part of who I am - don't want to permanently change that now.
BF |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:05 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
| Obviously, I can only speak for myself here, but when I read this sort of information, it sends red flags up for me. |
Agreed, it is a little scary. I bet 10 years from now, we will know for sure what this vanity drug is capable of and what kind of permanent problems it has caused.
| Quote: |
| My understanding with this product is that you have to keep using it to maintain the effects (?) |
Of course. The lashes will eventually shed off naturally if you discontinue the product. I'm sure, after a month or so, you will be back where you started. And then your lashes will grow at a normal rate, since you no longer give them the "anabolic" boost.
| Quote: |
| There are only two ways to get rid of dark circles due to skin that gets thinner as we age - you either need to thicken the skin somehow - or by adding a filler to the tear troughs to "sit on top" of the blood vessels so that they don't show through as much. |
Agreed.
| Quote: |
| It almost signs like the discoloration from the Lumigan comes from a staining type action. |
Yes, well, no... - not really...
| Quote: |
| Even if you apply it to your upper lashes, then shut your eyes while you sleep - of course the product is going to migrate into your eyes and the surrounding area - it's a liquid, folks |
It dries instantly, it's not like you walk around or go to sleep with wet eyelids that drips everywhere. I don't think it's the liquid form itself that causes the problem, but the active chemical ingredient inside that reacts with the living tissue in some way only the chemists know...
| Quote: |
The side effects concern me and not only that: I've had green eyes all my life they are part of who I am - don't want to permanently change that now.
|
That freaks me out a little too. I have bright, crystal clear light green eyes. I would hate to see them go. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:09 am |
Your eyes sound beautiful!
Mine are actually green with a bit of hazel in the center - they are unique and "me".
For some reason, losing that color seems to me like going to different hair color for rest of your life - but not being able to change it back 
BF |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:43 pm |
The glaucoma doctor's response to the side effects of the glaucoma medication are for using full drops directly on the eyes. It only really applies to people with light brown irises and not people with blue or green irises. You would need to have the genes for the "brown" melanocytes and be applying a drop of the product directly onto the eyes. Think of the thousands of women who used the drug unknowingly in the Revitalash and Jan Marini product and never reported an eye color change. I would not be so concerned about the eye color change.
The irritation on the eyelids are a problem I have been thinking about. I think I am definitely seeing an increased darkness (pigmentation) around my eye area particularly on the undereyes. I am also getting tiny hairs growing on the lower lid towards the outer corners near my cheeks. This is annoying since I do not apply the product to my bottom lashes. It may be migrating there as I have noticed that I "tear up" in my sleep. I am thinking maybe I should apply in the mornings as to avoid having the product migrate around. Or maybe wait a half and hour after application and then wash the excess off?
I want to see huge lash growth first before I change up my routine so I won't be doing that just yet, but I will report back should I change my mind! HA HA!!
By the way, I am Asian with strong tendency to hyperpigment. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:54 pm |
Mine is brownish color. Very deep. Guess because I have darker skin. Must be what it does to darker skin. I never noticed anything like that before JM. And it never seemed to fade the over 2 years I had been off it.
I don't see any increase since I have been on Rapidlash. Thank God!
PS. Anyone see the commercial that Brooke Shields does for Latisse? She is the spokesperson I guess. Goes on and on about the results you get, showing before and after pics and very much looks like a "cosmetic" commercial. then like all other Rx ads, she stops talking and she goes about her mingling at this party while a narrator goes on and on and on about the side effects. Then you are very aware again that it is indeed a drug they are talking about. Just a funny observation.
All those Rx commercials make me laugh with some of the drugs that look wonderful and then you see the person laughing and looking absolutely elated while a narrator is talking about some HORRIBLE side effects! I mean some of those commercials are talking about some serious drugs but they are laughing and carrying on like nothing. |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:18 pm |
I know from experience that Retin-A promotes brow and lash growth. I apply it right at the lash-line. I tried to find something on the net to support this and found the following
... Some people claim that retinoic acid (Retin-A) acne cream applied to the eyebrow area also promotes growth.
There is also a school of thought that promotes the use of minoxidil topical solution (the active ingredient in Rogaine) on the eyebrows. This product works on the hair follicle, which, over time gets smaller. The chemical enlarges the follicle and promotes thicker growth. A word of caution, though, minoxidil slows down the growth process, and although the hair will grow back, using this product will prolong the process. This solution should be applied lightly with a cotton swab to the region. Follow up with an application of petroleum gel or a special eyebrow gel available at most cosmetic counters.  |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:09 pm |
Well guess what? I am a long time Rogaine user for my brows. I had no brows most of my life, OK all my life. When I first used it I felt it was a remarkable product. (I know I have an old 2006 thread on here somewhere about my brows) It really worked and well. but I guess over time it slowed down because although they did not go back to what they were, they were not as full as the first year. I started in 2006.
I started using Rapidlash (sorry for the plug but I have its part of my story) and I got them back. All bald or super thin spots have filled in. I have the pics on my RL thread.
Maybe this (RL)will keep them after on maintenance for awhile or maybe I will have to alternate with Rogaine one year and RL another. Who knows? But I just had to say for whatever weird reason, it stopped working so well.
I wonder what men do when they use it long term? Does it do the same for the head? |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:08 pm |
Ok, I waive my theory that blondes/redheads are more likely to get hyperpigmentaion. Clearly a totally useless theory. 
Guess I might get it after all then... 
I'm in my 11th week now, though, and nothing yet! |
|
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:40 pm |
| chitchat wrote: |
I know from experience that Retin-A promotes brow and lash growth. I apply it right at the lash-line. I tried to find something on the net to support this and found the following
... Some people claim that retinoic acid (Retin-A) acne cream applied to the eyebrow area also promotes growth.
There is also a school of thought that promotes the use of minoxidil topical solution (the active ingredient in Rogaine) on the eyebrows. This product works on the hair follicle, which, over time gets smaller. The chemical enlarges the follicle and promotes thicker growth. A word of caution, though, minoxidil slows down the growth process, and although the hair will grow back, using this product will prolong the process. This solution should be applied lightly with a cotton swab to the region. Follow up with an application of petroleum gel or a special eyebrow gel available at most cosmetic counters. |
I have heard also that the combination of Rogaine and Retin-A helps with hair growth, but still can't get DH to try it... |
_________________
✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
|
|
|
|
Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:45 pm |
| semayden wrote: |
Ok, I waive my theory that blondes/redheads are more likely to get hyperpigmentaion. Clearly a totally useless theory.
Guess I might get it after all then...
I'm in my 11th week now, though, and nothing yet! |
But hang in there Semayden! All of a sudden I am noticing looooong ones where NONE grew before! I'm going to wait till the 16week mark (July the 8th) to back off to every other day maintenance mode. |
_________________
✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
|
|
|
|
Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:23 am |
| ammoniasmith wrote: |
| I am also getting tiny hairs growing on the lower lid towards the outer corners near my cheeks. This is annoying since I do not apply the product to my bottom lashes. |
ammoniasmith, I got those exact hairs too, in the beginning! I was using the solution both on the lower and upper lashes, and when I started noticing these weird new hairs almost on top of my cheeks, I stopped using the solution on the lower lashes all together. It freaked me out so I tweezed these hairs out rather than waiting for them to fall out by themselves.
It was a shame having to stop, because my lower lashes looked really great when they were nice and long, it gave my eyes a great look.
They say that the lower lashes will get their "dose" of Lumigan anyway as the product migrates from the upper lashes, but in my experience my lower lashes are back to normal since I stopped "feeding" them directly.
At least the "cheek hairs" never came back for me. But I also became extremely careful with my application after that. And started using even less product on my upper lashes, just barely wetting the lash line, with the skimpiest little brush I could find.
Perhaps try to be even more frugal with your solution and maybe your peach fuzz will go away? |
|
|
|
|
|
Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:49 am |
| Swedish_Charlotte wrote: |
| ammoniasmith wrote: |
| I am also getting tiny hairs growing on the lower lid towards the outer corners near my cheeks. This is annoying since I do not apply the product to my bottom lashes. |
ammoniasmith, I got those exact hairs too, in the beginning! I was using the solution both on the lower and upper lashes, and when I started noticing these weird new hairs almost on top of my cheeks, I stopped using the solution on the lower lashes all together. It freaked me out so I tweezed these hairs out rather than waiting for them to fall out by themselves.
It was a shame having to stop, because my lower lashes looked really great when they were nice and long, it gave my eyes a great look.
They say that the lower lashes will get their "dose" of Lumigan anyway as the product migrates from the upper lashes, but in my experience my lower lashes are back to normal since I stopped "feeding" them directly.
At least the "cheek hairs" never came back for me. But I also became extremely careful with my application after that. And started using even less product on my upper lashes, just barely wetting the lash line, with the skimpiest little brush I could find.
Perhaps try to be even more frugal with your solution and maybe your peach fuzz will go away? |
Heck no! I will not be frugal until I get MASSIVE lashes! HAHAHA!!!
I think the product migrates as I "tear up" in my sleep sometimes so it isn't a matter careful application because I am already very careful. And I don't use the the product on my lower lashes as I don't care how long they are. Yeah, I am one of those wierdos that doesn't look good with lush lower lashes. I won't even put mascara on the lower lashes!
I noticed that I have to wipe away tears that collect in the inner and outer corners of my eyes on occasion when I wake up. I think that is more the cause. I can live with those funny cheek hairs because, sadly, my outer eye corners are naturally dark and they are not obvious. Women of color often have strange shadowing on their faces and I am one of them! BOOHOO! |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:00 pm |
I just posted pics on my blog, of my one-month eyelash growth. It is really amazing. I still can't figure out how to post pics here. Here's the link to the pics: http://halfahundred.blogspot.com/2009/06/lumigan-update.html
I have read into all these issues regarding pigmentation and other side effects. Aside from being rare, they apply to the bimatoprost drops going directly into the eye. It always surprises me how many people get worried over unlikely events and then drink colas, which are nothing but chemical cocktails that harm the body over time. I'll step down from my soapbox now (while trying not to trip over my eyelashes...) |
_________________
Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:03 pm |
| I think we should start trying to keep ADC on the down low. I'm afraid Allergan will find out about and somehow force ADC to stop selling it. |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:08 pm |
| I'm not sure how they could enforce an order like this as ADC exists as a separate entity purchasing from other pharmacies to protect themselves from this very thing. Most of the online pharmacies operate this way. My Restylane came in from the UK but the online pharmacy is in Canada. They are acting as agents on our behalf. |
_________________
Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:12 pm |
| Hmmm...I certainly hope so. I don't want our fountain of youth (or fountain of hair, I guess) to dry up. |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:16 pm |
| lol! I don't think it will. I have to laugh at they way I get my Lumigan delivered...a very circuitous route indeed. It comes through the US. My Restylane came directly from a UK pharmacy but was purchased from an agent in Richmond, BC. |
_________________
Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:00 pm |
| Antonia wrote: |
| I have read into all these issues regarding pigmentation and other side effects. Aside from being rare, they apply to the bimatoprost drops going directly into the eye. |
No, not at all. The skin discoloration applies to all the prostaglandin analogues lash products, not just Bimatoprost.
And a fair amount of Latisse/Latisse users (who don't use the drops in their eyes, obviously) are reporting the same side effects as Glaucoma patients who do. It is the second most common side effect! (Itchy eyes being #1)
I have certainly never used the drops directly in my eyes. in fact I'm extremely careful in my application, yet I now have purple eyelids. |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:05 pm |
| My apologies Swiss Charlotte. I had read differently on a couple of medical sites but obviously personal experience carries more merit. I have major itching at night and when I first wake up as well. Not sure about the purple eyelids! I guess I'll have to wait and see. I have a nice dark ring around my eyes where I apply the product though. It looks like eyeliner. |
_________________
Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:22 pm |
| Antonia wrote: |
| lol! I don't think it will. I have to laugh at they way I get my Lumigan delivered...a very circuitous route indeed. It comes through the US. My Restylane came directly from a UK pharmacy but was purchased from an agent in Richmond, BC. |
what do you do with Restylane? Can you inject yourself? |
|
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:09 pm |
| Wenrow, yes, that is what it is for. I haven't injected yet (plan to tomorrow or Friday). |
_________________
Born in 1952. Blonde, very good skin. A few noticeable wrinkles. |
|
|
|
|
Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:40 pm |
I'm waiting on my Lumigan from ADC too, and a bit worried about the pigmentation stories!
I'm going to put vaseline around my eyes before I brush Lumigan through my lashes, like I do when I dye my lashes at home. |
_________________
Louise,45,UK.Sunscreen Face/Body L/Term!OCM(Castor/Carrier Oil,Vaculift),MUAC 12.5%,18% TCA,Working Up To SkinObsession 25% TCA/Jessner's.Ageless,Dr Roller,Retin-A 0.05% & 0.1%,AAging Lightstim,CP Serum,Dermawand,Vaculift Face 2 Body 2,Pretika Sonic Brush.Microfibre Cloth.Tua Viso(Broken ),Palovia (Started 7 April 2011!). |
|
|
|
| Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:27 am |
If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.
Click Here to join our community.
If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site. |
|
 |
|
