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Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:14 pm  |
Has anyone tested different programs? This is the only one I have bought, but it seems kind of outdated. What do you think?
And why hasn't anyone performed any studies on this topic yet, if we're all so sure that it actually is beneficial. Yeah, it certainly helps against sagging, but won't you have too many small wrinkles as a result of frequent squinting afterwards? |
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Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:46 pm |
Hi Vor,
No one has done any studies on this, as you can read in the many topics about facial exercise on this forum. Studies are expensive, and there is no company interested in investing in such a study. Maybe now that Nintendo has a facial exercise programme on the DS something will move.
Ageless outdated? In what sense? It isn't presented in a hip hop style way, but that does not mean the contents of the program is outdated. One of the points of facial exercise is that you can keep doing it for the rest of your life, without updates or rebuys, which is probably one of the reasons why commercial companies aren't interested in it.
There are some reports from people who have problems with small wrinkles from movements. These problems are discussed in several topics on the forum. Sean, among others, has given lots of advice re nutrition and hydration to adress this from the inside, others have given tips to adress it from the outside. One of the things I can advise you is to massage after exercising with a good moisturizer or oil, preferably one containing vit. e. |
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LauraR
New Member
 
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 9
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:58 am |
Louise did email me and send me the link to her DVD and her book as well, in compensation. Paypal had already reversed the charge to me. I asked them to reinstate the payment, but the case was closed. I offered to pay Louise again, but she said I was welcome to both. Her communication was kind and generous. She said my previous emails had gone into her junk folder (probably because they had links). I hope she works out her website problems.
In response to the question about other systems for facial exercise,I have used Cynthia Rowland's for years. They eliminated my double chin, that runs in my family (not a weight issue), and I have no hooding of my eyelids. They didn't do much for jowling or naso-labial (laugh lines). So far nothing has helped my forehead lines. They do work for the 11s between the eyebrows as well.
I bough |
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:08 pm |
| Vor wrote: |
Has anyone tested different programs? This is the only one I have bought, but it seems kind of outdated. What do you think?
And why hasn't anyone performed any studies on this topic yet, if we're all so sure that it actually is beneficial. Yeah, it certainly helps against sagging, but won't you have too many small wrinkles as a result of frequent squinting afterwards? |
Hi Vor, I've done 3 good programs and I found each one as good as the next (Eva Fraser's, Tom Haggerty's and Carolyn Cleaves') and had no problems with any and each delivered what it promised. I've also done Flex Effect and didn't care for the results I got from it. As far as "testing" is concerned, it's like Lotusesther said, most of us play the role of the guinea pigs in the experiment and then determine by the results we get whether we like a program or not. I actually loved the 3 programs mentioned first above and really would still be doing the very first one I tried (Eva's) if curiosity hadn't got the better of me and made me want to check out what else is out there. But I've since learned not to fix what isn't broken, I now mainly do Carolyn's program but if short of time, I will do Tom's.
I do think you should commit to whatever program you're doing now for a spell before deciding it's not quite working. Only stop if you're getting bad results. I don't believe one has to get bad results as a prerequisite to good results. I haven't had to do that with the 3 programs I like so I say, if your issue is nothing is happening yet, and not that things are looking bad, then don't quit yet. A face exercise regimen is usually a new thing to muscles that have never had to do what you're asking them to do so that's a whole lifetime of not doing that sort of movement and it takes time for them to get it and then respond.
As for getting small wrinkles from squinting...I think this depends on what program you're doing. Also what makes a good face exercises not cause wrinkles when gestures like smiling, frowning, etc that we do daily do cause wrinkles is because well chosen face exercises in a good program tend to target other muscles that usually don't get used...or to ask you to control how you use the usually used muscles so that there's a "workout" and "awakening" of muscles taking place. The seldom used muscles are usually attached to the ones we use regularly and which are already "fit" from regular movments that cause the same folds to occur over and over. The "new" pull from newly awakened muscles opens up these folds as muscles also get firmer and pull on the usually used ones and others push out on these folds opening them up so there's a smoothing out on the surface. Of course a loss in elasticity as we age is also to blame for the creases we get, but face exercises help with that too. This article explains why we age well with face exercises. Some people find topicals like copper peptides are a good supplement to face exercises.
I haven't done Ageless and know nothing of it so I do not know the squinting of which you speak, but perhaps having a moisturized face--check with Loulou to see if this is true--might help. If it's any consolation, the programs I mentioned that I like do involve an eye exercise where there's a squeeze or upward squint of the lower lid and the wrinkles formed at the time of doing the exercise are not permanent. The technique for doing the exercise involves focus and control that isn't normally applied in daily living--which is the "awakening" I was talking about of previously "ignored" muscles.
I agree with Lotusesther about there not being such a thing is "outdated" face exercising. And actually Ageless is one of the newer programs out there so it's a lot more modern than many. But because there are only so many ways to work muscles, you'll find whether new or old, the general muscle movements are more or less the same, so new or old, you can still get results. |
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Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:37 pm |
| Vor wrote: |
Has anyone tested different programs? This is the only one I have bought, but it seems kind of outdated. What do you think?
And why hasn't anyone performed any studies on this topic yet, if we're all so sure that it actually is beneficial. Yeah, it certainly helps against sagging, but won't you have too many small wrinkles as a result of frequent squinting afterwards? |
Hi Vor,
Actually there are studies... not earth shattering, but studies nonetheless. You can read about some of them here... http://www.flexeffect.com/research.htm Also you might want to google facial exercise studies, I know there are several more but don't have links to them. Please don't be concerned about causing wrinkles when training. It takes several years for a wrinkle to appear just from normal facial expression. It's not the repetitive movement that causes wrinkles, it is the integrity of the skin that allows a wrinkle to set-in. Any repetitive movement of the skin that brings blood to the surface such as facial training will actually strengthen the skin. Everyday facial expression does not do this. If it did, we would all be walking around with red faces |
_________________
Founder of FlexEffect Facialbuilding. My Photo Journal: FlexEffect.com/deb-photos |
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Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:43 am |
| Miranda Blue wrote: |
| @Sandooch Thanks - Louise sent the file again which I did download successfully so all is well now. I've been doing the exercises for about a week, no visible difference - yet - but the muscles certainly feel like they're working! I wonder if it's ok to post pics of our progress here |
Yes, it's okay to post progess pictures, but you have to wait until you have 50 posts first. Or, like Nonie did for me for my Rapidlash pictures, have another member here with 50 or more posts who is willing to post your pictures for you.
I've now done 13 complete Ageless workouts. Still no change, but I've heard for some it can take a few months. I don't mind; the exerices goes by so quickly.
Nonie, for Ageless exercises it wouldn't be a good idea to use moisturizer because when you pull the skin, you need to get a good grip, and moisturizer would make it too slippery. In fact, I have trouble keeping a hold of my grip on some of the exercises, and I have normal to dry skin. I read here that you can either use a tissue or wear some inexpensive white cotton gloves (I bought some gloves) to get a better grasp of the skin without slipping.
As for the wrinkling, I'm not too worried about that since many people here haven't had an issue with that after doing this program for some time. But I absolutely refuse to do the upper eyelid skin-pinching exercise. Not only because it hurts, but because it makes be feel uneasy. So I just substitute a free one that's done in many facial workout programs, with a little twist to each, where you just use your fingers to hold up your eyebrows and squeeze your eylids shut and hold for a count of 10, relax and do it again for a total of 5-6 sets. I'll let you know if that works out for me.  |
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Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:02 am |
| Can anyone tell me if the new Ageless is much different that the one we were all downloading in PDF format back in 2008/2009? |
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Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:32 pm |
 ok I admit I did not read this whole long thread and now I see why it seems so deserted here. Well, if any of the long term Ageless gals happen to appear, I have a couple of questions.
1) My skin is apparently very sensitive to all the grabbing. Oil makes me too slippery and I have to really work hard with my hands until they ache but it might be the only way. Lotion just sinks in. Perhaps someone has figured out another grip besides the finger grip that is less tiring and as effective and I can continue with the oil? Maybe my hands need the work out.
2) If anyone has the hot spots exercises I would love a brief description if you have time, particularly lips, jowls, double chin and if she has it, filling in the hollow over the top outer part of the orbital bone under the eye.
I am working my way through this epic thread. Maybe someone already shared these. |
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Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:54 am |
I cannot help you with the hotspot question, but as far as the skin slipping out of the fingers, many here (including myself) use white cotton gloves sold in places like Walgreens. In a pinch you can also use some kleenex paper.
I, too, get the sore hands, but I've read that as we contine with the exercises, they will get stronger and less sore. |
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Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:08 am |
Thank you so much. I also have dry finger tips and really do a number on my skin and then I get dry irritated areas that end up making my face look very irregular and lumpy and waxy all at one. Not a pretty sight at all. Cotton gloves. Great idea.
I have been working through this thread for hours. When did the state of affairs turn? I started going backwards into around pg 90 and it was at the sour stage. I started from the beginning through around pg 25 and all was LL Love.
Is the new book and DVD different than the original. Is it back for sale and is the price adjusted? I thought it the conversion from the pounds made it only around $35.
I still love this work out and plan to use it as my base but add in others as needed. |
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Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:24 pm |
I'm not sure when it all went down hill for LL; maybe sometime early to mid 2011. It really is too bad because so many people raved about her program.
When I bought the dvd download a couple months ago, it cost me $40. But when I didn't get an answer from her after a couple of emails and filed a dispute with Paypal, I got the download in a couple more days...plus she gave me a refund. That was nice of her and not expected.
I have no idea if the exercises from her earlier book and dvd have changed. It does seem that way, but I hope not too much. Hopefully, someone here can answer this question for us. |
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Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:49 pm |
| why did people say it cost $200? Can I still download this? Maybe I should stick to the original anyway since that is the one that people was such results with. ... But if the new one is improved it might be worth it. Don't think this thread gets much traffic anymore. Too bad. It was all the rage for a couple of years and there was so much positive energy. |
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Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:33 am |
hi there!
I bought the LL DVD on Tuesday and it last 2 min
now i hope that it will work for my face |
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Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:16 am |
| Hi - what do you mean it lasts 2 minutes? The DVD is only 2 minutes long? How many exercises? I am trying to figure out if the new workout is any different. |
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Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:51 am |
Loulou designed a lovely programme, wrote a beautiful book and was very generous with her advice and assistance, even making a free video to show how to do her exercises, but she is not very good at running a business. She never really intended to, as she wrote, and private matters made it very hard for her to keep up with the business on her own. So someone else stepped in to help her with that, and that is where things went bad. She made a new edition of Ageless, a new DVD and the hotspots thing and wanted to sell that as an all in one package at a price people here were shocked to find to be much higher than the original, ridiculously cheap book.
The last posting by Loulou in this thread, I think on page 90 or so, says it all.
But nowhere in the thread, even when comments became quite sour, was the programme in itself criticised. In the thread here you can find a lot of advice from Loulou and others for when things don't go the way you expected. The crush exercise turned out to be something that works for some but not for others and some people developed some pouching by the mouth (my own idea about this is that maybe people who have had braces as a child can run into trouble with pouching because of muscle memory, but I have never found this idea discussed anywhere. Still, it figures because with a lot of people you can see a different build of muscle by the corners of the mouth as a result of wearing braces and exercise may emphasise this, I think).
Anyway, I am very glad to see Loulou is back, because her programme is lovely and effective and my impression of her is that she is a really lovely sensitive and warm person. She certainly did not deserve the bad press she got. |
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Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:30 pm |
| anca wrote: |
hi there!
I bought the LL DVD on Tuesday and it last 2 min
now i hope that it will work for my face |
I'm confused by this because the dvd I downloaded 2 months ago has 2 five-minute programs on it. One to do on day one (5 exercises) and the other to do on day 2 (another 5 exercises). There are also some additional occasional exercises you can do if you choose and a face massage following the program. I don't see where you are getting 2 minutes from.  |
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Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:27 am |
| I wanted to say that the bought (process) itself lasted 2 min |
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Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:06 pm |
| Oh, okay. Good for you that it was an easy process. Hopefully they've got it all straightened out now. |
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Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:59 am |
Whilst I do agree with what you said Lotusesther about Louise’s program, I’m sorry but I think I saw a very different side to her at the end where she wasn’t so nice and was actually just going after peoples money and didn’t treat anyone with due care and respect they deserved. She completely abandoned the forum and her supporters, and there were many of us who were extremely loyal to her and when she reappeared she did so only to launch her new product. No explanation or anything was given to her period of absence or even attempts at explaining it and no questions were answered about the new product. Just a reappearance and then disappearance (again). When she got the business partner in, emails were never answered nor was there any help provided. Whats more some people were getting communications about some exercises that should be omitted aka crush, but the only way you could find out about that was if people who were told shared it on the forum and I think it was just plain terrible. She entirely deserved the bad press she got – because she is responsible for her own actions (or lack of). Yes the program was incredibly cheap and I do believe it is effective but the support needed and help was just not there. Whats moreso the moderators who she had on that forum were never around, and one of them I found out even had facial surgery (a facelift) yet people were told her results was due to the program. Not good in my book.
| Lotusesther wrote: |
Loulou designed a lovely programme, wrote a beautiful book and was very generous with her advice and assistance, even making a free video to show how to do her exercises, but she is not very good at running a business. She never really intended to, as she wrote, and private matters made it very hard for her to keep up with the business on her own. So someone else stepped in to help her with that, and that is where things went bad. She made a new edition of Ageless, a new DVD and the hotspots thing and wanted to sell that as an all in one package at a price people here were shocked to find to be much higher than the original, ridiculously cheap book.
The last posting by Loulou in this thread, I think on page 90 or so, says it all.
But nowhere in the thread, even when comments became quite sour, was the programme in itself criticised. In the thread here you can find a lot of advice from Loulou and others for when things don't go the way you expected. The crush exercise turned out to be something that works for some but not for others and some people developed some pouching by the mouth (my own idea about this is that maybe people who have had braces as a child can run into trouble with pouching because of muscle memory, but I have never found this idea discussed anywhere. Still, it figures because with a lot of people you can see a different build of muscle by the corners of the mouth as a result of wearing braces and exercise may emphasise this, I think).
Anyway, I am very glad to see Loulou is back, because her programme is lovely and effective and my impression of her is that she is a really lovely sensitive and warm person. She certainly did not deserve the bad press she got. |
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Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:28 am |
Loulou's personal life is none of my business, and I wouldn't dream of demanding her to explain herself.
There is a book, there are videos and there is plenty of info and advice Loulou provided for free in this topic and on the Ageless forum she did not start but was 'presented' with. A lot for 10 dollars! |
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Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:40 am |
No one was demanding an explanation, but people were owed one. Many of us kind of manned the fort and had hopes she would return and all would be clear. I’m sure there was good reason for her not to be there and she had shared she was going through personal difficulties at one point so we just all presumed that was the case but to me the common courtesy wouldn’t be to pretend it didn’t happen but to actually acknowledge it – but instead all that happened was she reappeared with a sales pitch for her latest and greatest (which was timed – people had a very short space to get it) and then vanished. All questions about the product went unanswered and no explanation was ever given to my memory.
The forum she might not have started, but she encouraged us all to go there (and I’m sure if she didn’t want the forum she could have got her friend who created it for her to remove it). In the beginning it was absolutely lovely and I was there and can definitely attest to it, but when she wasn’t it ran into problems. I mean no one was saying she had to be there 24/7 but it would have been nice if she could have frequented there once a month lets say, or use it it share tips etc. Likewise before the forum was created, it really is down to EDS that the book became so popular after all. |
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Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:32 am |
We disagree on what can be reasonably expected from someone who writes a book on facial exercise.
All that would almost obscure the fact that the book itself is lovely and the exercises are easy to learn. |
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Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:10 am |
Actually I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I'm not talking about whats expected from someone who writes a book on facial exercise, but Loulou's treatment of people when she had written the book. However, as you say, it is a good book and the exercises are easy to learn however it doesn't excuse the bs that she did to me and many others.
| Lotusesther wrote: |
We disagree on what can be reasonably expected from someone who writes a book on facial exercise.
All that would almost obscure the fact that the book itself is lovely and the exercises are easy to learn. |
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Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:00 pm |
Agreed, TM! Good dvd, with easy to understand exercises which was a steal of a price a few years ago. But her professionalism in business is extremely lacking. I really don't think anyone will hear from her again or that she'll come out with anything relating to facial exercise in the future.
All that being said, I'm still glad I was able to get the download and still have high hopes that I'll see results. I've now done 17 full Ageless workouts and no results yet. Still crossing my fingers that I'll start seeing plumper cheeks and raised eyelids soon.  |
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Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:30 pm |
The first 4 exercises from Loulou´s DVD seem to me the same. I think there is something that I don´t understand. Could anybody explain to me?
Thanks!
Anca |
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