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Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:39 pm  |
| Oh, I should clarify....when I asked my dr about the safety of BHRT, he said it was safe enough so that women with breast cancer were prescribed it, (presumably for debilitating menopause symptoms). I didn't mean to imply it was any sort of treatment for breast cancer. |
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"I know that only time will heal my broken heart, just as only time will heal his broken arms and legs.” --Miss Piggy |
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Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:39 pm |
| Justine1900 wrote: |
| Oh, I should clarify....when I asked my dr about the safety of BHRT, he said it was safe enough so that women with breast cancer were prescribed it, (presumably for debilitating menopause symptoms). I didn't mean to imply it was any sort of treatment for breast cancer. |
Giving estrogens, whether HRT or BHRT, to a woman that has had breast cancer, is formally contraindicated by all the published guidelines of care and this is substantiated by extensive research and more papers than I could read in a lifetime. If you go to any BHRT supporting website, they will even say the same.
So women should not be prescribed any estrogen whether BHRT or not and anyone who would do it is not only turning a blind eye in all the science but being incredibly irresponsible. |
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37, light brown hair, green eyes, very fair skin. Oily T zone, broken capillaries... Current regime: Tretinoin 0.05% every night, hydroquinone 4% twice per day, lachydran every other day, random moisturizers and sunscreen |
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Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:06 pm |
I have never read Sommer's book, but I found this critique that I thought provides a different take on her book:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=2874767&page=1
I'm surprised that her claims of the benefits of BHRT are not substantiated by her own medical history. In fact, ductal breast cancer is the most common type of cancer, but it's lobular breast cancer that's the most associated with hormone replacement. And despite this fact she makes no connection at all... |
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37, light brown hair, green eyes, very fair skin. Oily T zone, broken capillaries... Current regime: Tretinoin 0.05% every night, hydroquinone 4% twice per day, lachydran every other day, random moisturizers and sunscreen |
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Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:33 pm |
Well, the choice of taking HRT or BHRT is a personal one, with many factors at play.
My own view is that if a woman has few risk factors for reproductive or breast cancer, has an experienced and qualified doctor who specialises in this area, regularly has her hormone levels monitored with the appropriate tests, gets her prescribed products from a reputable compounding pharmacy, and is scrupulous about getting timely breast and reproductive health checks, the risks, of BHRT anyway, are minimised.
Any deviation from the above, eg, self-diagnosis or buying unknown products from a health food store or the internet, in my opinion, is akin to playing Russian roulette. |
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"I know that only time will heal my broken heart, just as only time will heal his broken arms and legs.” --Miss Piggy |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:23 am |
Wow, the debate carried on as lively as ever!!
I disappeared, because I'd been feeling so great, I'd been running around and had hardly been on the computer.
I can't believe that after years of trying the medical industries drugs with horrifying side-effects and NO HELP, all I needed to do was pop a bit of progesterone cream on. Yes, I got the DIM, and progesterone cream, and literally the day I put the cream on, my energy went through the roof. I wee'd and wee'd until all my fluid dropped off (holy sh**! I'm slim!), and I felt GREAT right through my PMS time - when usually I'm bed-ridden and writhing around in agony. No migraines, no foggy brain - I literally used to feel my brain was water-logged from all the fluid retention - no mood swings (or far less than usual
 ) - and no fatigue! It's truly been amazing. I did a big show in NYC without feeling severely fatigued and paranoid about my puffy face/body or being loaded to the gills on painkillers.
That is until a few days ago, when still trying to work out how to dose myself, I thought I should stop using the cream to allow my period to come at it's usual time. And as progesterone and estrogen naturally drop off before your period, and reading about how to use the cream, I thought I'd stop... Immediate migraine, obscene bloating, immense fatigue all set in at their usual level the next day. I'm bed-ridden now with unbearable body pain and migraine, which is what brought me back here!!!
Perhaps next month I'll try using the cream right up until I get my period. I've read it can prevent it coming, but I'm sure that if your progesterone is low enough as I believe mine to be, then it'll come just fine.
I can't believe how dramatically it helped me. I had to check with my husband if it was my PMS time, because neither of us could tell! I've found my long-sought answer here, and just need to find the best way to use it. I'm not sure how instrumental the DIM has been for me, as we have a lot of cruciferous veges in our diet...but it definitely hasn't hurt!
Anyway, I can't thank the ladies here enough for bringing up this subject, and putting me on the quest again for health. I'd been so disillusioned with scores of doctors approaches. It's amazing how my body while on the progesterone cream was in nowhere near as much inflammation and pain as usual at this time of the month. I'd love to know how anti depressants (which is the first thing a doctor will give you, is meant to help with the myriad of problems someone with pmdd has). Next thing, they'll put you on the pill. How is that going to be better than finding out what is happening with your hormones? Putting a generic bunch of fake hormones into your system instead? Then the diuretic, which just treats ONE of the symptoms? Aaarrrggghhh!!! I can't believe I didn't find this earlier!
Something is seriously wrong with the medical industry. They are not interested in helping the cause of one's ailments, and sorry Josee, I really got carried away on the other thread in the lounge where you suggested anti-depressants are a great treatment for someone suffering PMDD. Really ladies, the truth is, they've repackaged Prozac by naming it Sarafem, and doctors are touting it as the new miracle PMDD treatment. When the MOST it can do is put you in a slightly better mood while your pain and bloating and migraines and fatigue is happening. Bizarre. |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:17 am |
this is interesting; excerpt—
Bio-Identical Hormone Replacement Therapy -
The Bigger Picture
By Dr. Andrew Jones, Medical Director
Women's Health Institute of Texas
It’s something that’s been staring doctors in the face for decades, but few have taken any particular notice. Almost 60% of all migraines in women coincide with their menstrual cycle. Many of these women experiencing “menstrual migraines” had their first bout with this disease soon after taking (or quitting) birth control pills or following childbirth.
http://www.migraineblog.com/migraine_blog/2007/12/bio-identical-h.html |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:22 am |
I'm so glad you've found something that helps, trigger. What you've been going through sounds absolutely hellish.
Please keep us up-to-date with how you get on. I'll be keeping my fingers very tightly crossed for you.
On a lighter note, who the hell came up with the catchline on the Always sanitary pads adverts, "Have a happy period!" 
I have a theory...it wasn't a woman. |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:30 am |
All this makes perfect sense to me. I started having terrible migraines during perimenopause. They lasted about ten years...I would never be without zomig in my bag. The minute I hit full meno, they stopped...immediately. I was also put on anti-depressants which are great if you don't mind a little weight gain and don't really need to 'feel' anything  They offer the perfect bland existence. |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:30 am |
thanks majorb!! it's pretty exciting. I wonder if hormones play a role in your inflammation as well? BtW, I've been off the naproxen for the last three weeks as well due to extreme stomach pain I was having after taking them. I expected the arthritis flare right back up, but the progesterone (or that's what I suspect) kept any swelling and pain under control (until I stopped these last few days that is).
You must be preparing for your canoe trip soon! It's a perfect time to go...ENJOY!! I know you will!
PS, this ebook is very interesting to anyone contemplating bio identical hormones.
download the link titled Hormone Replacement Therapy |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:55 pm |
| Josee wrote: |
So women should not be prescribed any estrogen whether BHRT or not and anyone who would do it is not only turning a blind eye in all the science but being incredibly irresponsible. |
I was very upset with my PCP when she prescribed the Vivelle patch because of my perimenopause symptoms. I felt she was just trying to stop my complaining and constant visits for this problem and that problem. So I found a new PCP, who immediately prescribed Provera when I asked about the unopposed estrogen. That didn't make me happy, either. So now I am seeing a BHRT dr. |
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Nadine, age 50, live in VA; half-Asian, slight yellow tone; sensitive, dry/combo skin |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:06 pm |
Trigger I'm going to copy all your stuff to my friend who sadly has no health insurance, her husband's job doesn't provide it. I wonder if it would be at all possible for her to find a pro bono doctor willing to work with her? It's exciting to hear all your progress but I'm sorry for all the ups and downs, really such a tough road.
I agree about anti-depressants, it reallllly bugs me that they are so widely prescribed to put a Band-Aid on the real problems. I also agree when you say are they supposed to make you happier about your pain and suffering? I completely disagree with the chemical imbalance "theory" instead people should work on creating a healthy brain with real food diet, omega 3 oils, exposure to sunlight and bright light, regular exercise, getting 8 hours of sleep on a regular schedule, staying away from stimulants (anger & rage, coffee, sugar, chemicals in food etc.). That's my rant for today. |
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61 OMG! Health and fitness oriented and I take care of my skin from the inside out and use Klaron, Clindamycin, Tazorac Shikai creams, Beyond Coastal Sunscreen, Clairsonic. |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:07 pm |
 >For these reasons alone, bio-identical hormones are incredibly safe. The worst that can happen is the administered dose didn’t have the intended effect of curing some pre-existing health condition (like uterine fibroids or ovarian cysts, for example). No harm is done and the patient simply stops taking it, with the bio-identical hormones harmlessly washing out of the body over several days.
I think this is true of progesterone but not true of bio-estrogen. And again, the source of the products is very important. |
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"I know that only time will heal my broken heart, just as only time will heal his broken arms and legs.” --Miss Piggy |
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Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:16 pm |
| Equally it is not true of testosterone and DHEA. These bio-hormones affect your moods very strongly. Yes, you can reverse the effects by stopping the BHRT, but if you have gotten into a serious road rage incident or lashed out at your child or partner, it may be too late. |
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"I know that only time will heal my broken heart, just as only time will heal his broken arms and legs.” --Miss Piggy |
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Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:44 am |
| trigger wrote: |
You must be preparing for your canoe trip soon! It's a perfect time to go...ENJOY!! I know you will!
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Not long now! I'm very excited!  |
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Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:26 am |
| Quote: |
| All this makes perfect sense to me. I started having terrible migraines during perimenopause. They lasted about ten years...I would never be without zomig in my bag. The minute I hit full meno, they stopped...immediately. I was also put on anti-depressants which are great if you don't mind a little weight gain and don't really need to 'feel' anything Rolling Eyes They offer the perfect bland existence. |
Yes, my artist mother has gained 20 kilos in two months, and has suddenly lost interest in making her beautiful artwork  Her anxiety was such that she couldn't leave the house for months at a time, so when you're desperate enough, you'll try anything, even when the downside is so huge (excuse the pun). Luckily she's coming over here to NY for a holiday soon, so we'll get a chance to chat and debate about things like we used to. She's stoicly stuck with conventional medicine, despite little help for her body which is so wracked with pain she can barely walk anymore, and dreadful fatigue. Now that she's through menopause, her migraines that plagued her all her adult life disappeared, too - which would definitely indicate hormonal involvement, to me. Her doctors have always considered her a hypochondriac and told her it's all in her mind and been trying to get her on anti-depressants forever. Most of them had unbearable side-effects, so she had to discontinue. Obviously a mono-tone voice on the phone, lack of interest in life and extreme weight gain doesn't fit into the unbearable side effects box, which is worrying. She's now been told it's fibromyalgia which she just needs to exercise for. If only she could walk!! For now this attractive, intelligent and creative woman is 'content' to be mostly bedridden and numbed out, as it's a better solution than anything else coventional medicine has offered her thus far.
Hopefully she'll be able to find someone that practises BHRT in Australia, and get some help. Although, she's pretty disillusioned about 'trying' things these days. You get to the point where you really do think it's your own fault for being unwell and you should stop troubling people with your worries. Scores of annoyed and disinterested doctors will do that... |
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Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:28 pm |
Article on BHRT for men
Male menopause or andropause exists in some men, and research has suggested that loss of testosterone in the ageing male is an important contributor to health problems.
Some of the scientific literature calls it Late Onset Hypogonadism, but the implications are now being explained by research which shows increased health problems like increased abdominal fat, reduced muscle mass, osteoporosis, increased diabetes, metabolic syndrome, heart disease, higher mortality - all associated with reducing testosterone levels.
And other conditions lead off from these, including Alzheimer's disease, hypertension, gout, increased autoimmune diseases, Sleep apnea syndrome.
It's called 'Grumpy Old Man Syndrome' because the symptoms include irritability, anger, loss of confidence, loss of vitality, depression, reduced mental effectiveness, and hot sweats in 30 per cent of those affected.
It occurs in 20 per cent of men over 45 or 40 per cent of men over 70 years.
Here is a test used by doctors to detect Testosterone deficiency:
* Do you have a decrease in libido (sex drive)?
* Do you have a lack of energy?
* Do you have a decrease in strength and/or endurance?
* Have you lost height?
* Have you noticed a decreased "enjoyment of life"?
* Are you sad and/or grumpy?
* Are your erections less strong?
* Have you noted a recent deterioration in your ability to play sports?
* Are you falling asleep after dinner?
* Has there been a recent deterioration in your work performance?
In addition to these questions, can you identify with any of the following symptoms?
A sense of being burned out, increased depression, increased irritability, increased anxiety, more nervousness, more joint complaints, increased sweating, a need for more sleep, more sleep disturbances, muscular weakness, physical exhaustion, impaired sexual potency, fewer morning erections, disturbed libido and decreased beard growth.
Women's estrogen levels drop relatively suddenly when they go through menopause. But men's testosterone levels drop gradually over a period of time so that by age 70, it's half the normal levels of a younger man - for some, it's worse, and they run into more of the health problems already mentioned.
So, the gradual drop in testosterone sneaks up, and the symptoms are not as obvious. It is very subtle and hardly noticed or complained about - that's what you need to watch out for.
What makes testosterone levels drop even more is abdominal fat, which makes estrogen - thereby neutralising the testosterone.
Stress, toxicity, a poor diet with too many bad fats, autoimmune diseases and some drugs can also lead toa drop in testosterone levels.
Why should an ageing male consider whether they may be testosterone deficient?
The heart has testosterone receptors - testosterone has been found to dilate coronary arteries, reverse atherosclerosis and help hypertension.
Adequate testosterone reduces fat and builds up muscle and bone etc.
Testosterone improves mood, cognitive function and prevents Alzheimer's disease, stroke, heart failure, and some abnormalities of cholesterol.
Testosterone improves libido and erectile function (but not in everyone). It also - in both men and women - reduces inflammation and pain.
The diagnosis is made from the symptoms and problems the man has, along with a blood test. The doctor may need up to three blood tests to be sure because the results can vary.
When in doubt about the diagnosis, look at the person - do they have any symptoms or problems already?
Young men with high testosterone don't get prostate cancer but researchers are starting to say that testosterone doesn't actually cause prostate cancer.
However, testosterone therapy mustn't be used in patients who have prostate or breast cancer.
What do you do now? Your family doctor will discuss the possible diagnosis with you and may refer you to an endocrinologist.
Testosterone is usually prescribed as an injection, but you can also get it as a patch or an implant that goes under the skin.
Bioidentical testosterone is used as a cream - it's rubbed into the perineum (area behind the scrotum).
For information about bioidentical hormones go to pharmaceutical.co.nz.
Before you have any testosterone treatment, you need to have some tests and have a thorough examination.
After starting treatment, you will be followed up periodically to ensure there are no problems.
Testosterone therapy will become more commonplace as research makes more doctors aware that a community of grumpy, disabled, old men can be prevented.
- Dr Frances Pitsilis
http://www.drfrances.co.nz/grumpy-old-man-syndrome.html |
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"I know that only time will heal my broken heart, just as only time will heal his broken arms and legs.” --Miss Piggy |
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Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:10 pm |
HI, Guys, Anyone familiar with "Life Extension"? I just finished a very interesting article on Bioidentical Hormone replacement Therapy. I'm ready to contact them for a test kit to be sent off to their lab. Just wondering if anyone knows anything about them.
Thank you!  |
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65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:10 pm |
An update from me... I've been taking progesterone for the last two months. The first month I used cream, and then I thought I'd try something stronger, as I'd read of concerns about being able to utilize the progesterone stored in the fat cells.
Things I've noticed:
Firstly, my fluid retention has been greatly reduced, as have my swollen sore breasts. This in itself is a superb result, as I can easily gain 8 pounds in fluid weight in the two weeks leading up to my period. It also made my body less sensitive to touch.
My moodswings seem to be somewhat alleviated, although in the last week, I'm still getting rather bad downturn into depression. Two days before my period arrives, everything looks completely dark to me, and I am picking holes in everyone and everything. I don't like anyone, and feel extremely sad/depressed, and anxious. I am however less volatile and angry... I'm not sure what to do about this.
This month was the first month spent without crippling migraines. It was so amazing, I was pretty much in shock. I've been bedridden for a week before, and often up to a week after with extreme pain for the last 3 years, so it was truly bizarre to be up and about with NO PAIN WHATSOEVER. I also started Butterbur/Feverfew supplements, as well as regular use of the Cefaly (which is a similar device to the Safetox there is a thread on EDS). I finally managed to get a migraine (not a hormonal one), because I'm in Japan at the moment, and my Shellfish/Wheat allergies are very difficult to avoid here. So perhaps it really is the progesterone balancing things out...
All in all, I think it's a VERY encouraging start in the world of self hormone balancing. My energy levels were still extremely low the week before my period (when I had the depression as well), so I'm booking in to see an Endocrinologist when I get back to the US in a few weeks. Hopefully the doctor will be helpful and interested in hormone balance issues that are hard to detect. From my readings, I've discovered it does seem that even if you're within the correct 'zones', there can still be balance issues for *your* body if you are at either end of the scale.... |
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Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:11 am |
Hi trigger,
Can you tell me what brand of progesterone cream you've been using and what lead you to choose it?
I'm glad to hear you are having some positive results and I pray that things only continue to improve. I have battled mood-swings, depression and fluid retention esp. in the past 2 yrs. I also get crippling headaches although I'm not sure if that is related to hormones or a TMJ issue. I haven't had my hormone levels checked yet, but I really feel they are out of whack. I've been on the fence about trying a progesterone cream and then trying to figure out which one is another story.
I certainly hope this dr. will be able to help you further. |
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Early 40's, fair skin, green eyes, rosacea, ocassional break-outs, dk. circles, sun damage. AALS, DermaWand, Safetox! |
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Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:31 am |
Hi, Guys, I just heard from my neighbor who is a nurse. She said on-line labs may not be reliable. She suggested seeing a gyno. I'm wondering if a endocrinologist would be better.
trigger, I, too, hope you continue to feel better. This hormone stuff is for the birds! |
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65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:28 am |
Couldn't agree more Mars - except it's not for our dear Songbird!
Songbird, I used the progesterone cream from iherb, as it was inexpensive and had great reviews. Just do a search on progesterone creams, and you'll see the more expensive one, and then the one I bought (I forget the name). I'm certain it will address your fluid retention - horrible affliction that it is, makes you think you've gotten fat overnight every month. Everyone is different, but I think that it's believed that most women are either low on progesterone or high in estrogen to some degree. It's a good place to start... inexpensive, and it may just solve all your worries. For me it's given confidence that there is something out of whack there that could be helped with some hormone tweaking.
After trying the cream for the first month, I decided to try some little progesterone pills that dissolve under the tongue and go straight into the bloodstream. I tailored the dose until it felt right. They are called Progon B. You can do a search online to order them. I think it was a bit more effective, and minimised the potential problem of all the cream being sucked up by the 'saddlebags'. I thought the cream was great too, though, so it's up to you to try whatever appeals.
Did you fill out an online symptom checker, to try to narrow it down that progesterone could be low? There are quite a few online, and quite helpful with informing you of potential symptoms of having low progesterone/high estrogen. |
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Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:54 pm |
| trigger wrote: |
Songbird, I used the progesterone cream from iherb, as it was inexpensive and had great reviews.
Did you fill out an online symptom checker, to try to narrow it down that progesterone could be low? There are quite a few online, and quite helpful with informing you of potential symptoms of having low progesterone/high estrogen. |
trigger,
Thank you so much for your reply. You are so very kind. I did not know about the online symptom checker but will definitely check it out before I order a progesterone cream. I'll let you know how it works out. |
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Early 40's, fair skin, green eyes, rosacea, ocassional break-outs, dk. circles, sun damage. AALS, DermaWand, Safetox! |
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Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:07 pm |
| Mars wrote: |
Hi, Guys, I just heard from my neighbor who is a nurse. She said on-line labs may not be reliable. She suggested seeing a gyno. I'm wondering if a endocrinologist would be better.
trigger, I, too, hope you continue to feel better. This hormone stuff is for the birds! |
A better choice would be an anti-ageing physician. Sometimes they are called appearance medicine physicians, but you need to check that they include BHRT in their practise. |
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"I know that only time will heal my broken heart, just as only time will heal his broken arms and legs.” --Miss Piggy |
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Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:15 am |
| HI, Justine, I found 2 such clinics where I live. I will be contacting today to get an appt. Thanks |
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65 Caucasion, history of acne, sagging, some wrinkling, rough texture. Using Dermawand, AALS, Microderm Machine,Copper Peptides |
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