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Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:50 am  |
A tenuous link to NLs but....does anyone else look 100 years old when they catch their reflection on car or shop windows?? My NL looks especially worse and my jaw - which I don't even have a problem with, looks horrific!
It's frustrating because I walk out the house feeling ok, I don't see a mirror all day and then BAM! There's that 100 year old face!
Anyway, how's it all going? Mirjana, JLM is the Tanaka still working for you both?
I've noticed my left NL making a return but then I haven't had much sleep last few days. Will monitor it then maybe begin the Tanaka again - I miss that massage but the spots are only just going (and leaving brown marks). |
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Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:10 am |
| This is Miranda wrote: |
A tenuous link to NLs but....does anyone else look 100 years old when they catch their reflection on car or shop windows?? My NL looks especially worse and my jaw - which I don't even have a problem with, looks horrific!
It's frustrating because I walk out the house feeling ok, I don't see a mirror all day and then BAM! There's that 100 year old face!
Anyway, how's it all going? Mirjana, JLM is the Tanaka still working for you both?
I've noticed my left NL making a return but then I haven't had much sleep last few days. Will monitor it then maybe begin the Tanaka again - I miss that massage but the spots are only just going (and leaving brown marks). |
Some mirrors are just cursed 
 Car and shop windows are condemned, and if you want to know what real horror is, go to store to try bath suit in one of those neon illuminated cabins  Sweet Jesus and Mary...unstable girl can jump from the first bridge on the way home
Joke on the side...I am really newborn with Tanaka. Yes I am doing it every morning, and my face looks better and better from day to day. I can see that clearly, because of some condemned mirrors which can made me cry, scream and looking for first plastic surgeon to cut me up  Now, I can pass near them without any fear  |
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trying to stay young and to learn English a little bit better  so if it make you laugh - don't LOL |
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Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:32 pm |
| I've been doing Tanaka for about 6 weeks, once a day. Unfortunately, no luck on my NL. Now, I do Tanaka in the morning, scraping at night and pop in some facial exercises at work. Hopefully I'm not killing my face. |
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53, DermaQuest, NCN Products, PMD, Dermarolling |
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Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:14 am |
 I made an interesting realisation today whilst rambling off-topic elsewhere. My NL's are looking worse this week. This could be tireness (8yr son had op on Tues) OR it could be because I haven't had one of my usual 2-3 times a week green smoothies for 10 days. I'm catching up on my sleep now and there's still no improvement so if I start to see a difference after beginning the GS next week - then I will be converted (I was skeptical when a number of you were raving).
Stay tuned! |
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Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:08 am |
Checking in re: NL's-- yes, I am still doing the Tanaka massage, twice a day (AM& PM). I feel that the massage has been working out sooo well for me.
However, Miranda, you may be on to something with the green smoothies having quite an impact on the NL's as well. I have been faithful about having a green smoothie once a day (first thing in the morning, good girl that I am), which I've been doing for, oh let's say at least 2 months now? I am also trying to have a green soup for lunch. It seemed that the green smoothies had an almost immediate impact on overall skin quality & texture, but I wasn't too sure whether it affected the NL's
For the past week or so I have had a horrible sleep schedule, perhaps about 5-6 hours/ night & frequently interrupted. And yet, my NL's are still being held at bay!! My eyes are red & bloodshot (not too puffy or baggy though) and I definitely look tired, but I feel like I don't look like 100 yrs old... just tired.
I don't know what exactly is at work here-- Tanaka? But perhaps you're right about the green smoothies & NL's Miranda... now I will be terrifed to go a day without them!
(God, I was in such denial about the link between appearance & diet... perhaps because I was able to get away with a crap diet for so long & maintain a decent appearance... ah, my misspent & lost youth! But now, it is just so clear that what goes in the inside is visible on the outside as well!)
I am still getting breakouts... I would hate to think that it is from the Tanaka massage... I don't want to choose between having NL's & clear skin! I am hoping that things are getting better, but as soon as I think that everything is on the up and up, BAM, a new zit!
(I am now back to doing Obagi to even out my poor, uneven & scarred skin. It also seems to be helping a bit with the breakouts.)
(By the way, you are all the best!!! I love this forum!)
Regarding looking weird in car windows & such... I remember that my reflection in windows always looked ugly, even when I was younger. And if I think about the reflection of my beautiful friends in car windows... actually, they don't look so good either. I think it has something to do with the angle, since you're looking *down* into the glass, and your face is drawn downwards & droopy. |
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Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:26 am |
| My n/l issue and slight jowling improved with green smoothies when I started them in July....I saw change within three weeks. I have been drinking them daily since then and started the Tanaka massage as soon as Critic posted it here maybe six weeks ago. I noticed a change in the n/l immediately. I think both work on the areas extremely effectively. I do the massage daily and sometimes 2X a day and have had no breaking out issues or problems. |
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female,"50 something" medium to thick normal skin, no wrinkles,Lightstim,Easy Eye Solutions,Green Smoothies,Ageless Secret Gold, Pico Toner,Beautiful Image |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:47 am |
Oooh... I loove the idea of a combined LED/ lymphatic clearing device! But, okay, let me play devil's advocate.
Now, I'm not too familiar with LED devices, but it seems that in order for them to be effective, the LED's need to be able to emit at least a certain wavelength frequency? Do you know what frequency this gadget emits? Also, I thought that with these LED devices, you actually have to keep the device on a certain area of your skin for a certain amount of time... is that what you are supposed to do with this device (is the massager at work while you do this?), or do you move the gadget around to encourage the lymph?
I thought that in order to encourage the lymph system you actually have to make a motion towards the glands on the surface of your skin. How does the device encourage the lymph, exactly?
Perhaps the combination of dry brushing and using an LED device would work to achieve the same purported effect, without that much more time?
(I must confess, I'm a bit of a Luddite anyway...)
Then again, if this works...
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:33 am |
Just to comment here, doing the massage twice a day is a lot of lymph clearing. When I do lymphatic massages, I would never do it twice a day - its simply too powerful. When I do my lymphatic massage myself, I do it once a day, otherwise I go into major detox symptons and can have outbreaks etc.
Re the link between appearance and diet - don't worry your not the first and your certainly not going to be the last person who is in denial. I was so cross at the weekend, as picked up a magazine and there was someone who had written in about acne to a doctor and mentioned that their diet and water intake wasn't good, and the doctor responded that diet had very little to do with acne and water too and that this young man should try medication to clear the acne and I thought its no wonder our youngsters are in the problems they are today with such advice (but also concerned as the particular brand he recommended was high in BP, and thats been linked to all sorts of strange things and so heaven knows what this poor guy will end up 20 years from now).
With your breakouts particularly though, it might be a good idea not to do it twice. The reason is that I think its over detoxing the tissue. So I would try taking a day off completely (hey our faces deserve a day of rest too) maybe at the weekend where you don't do anything and then start back your routine but maybe only doing it once a day. This way you should be able to maintain the NL's but also have clear skin too.
Sean
| JLM wrote: |
Checking in re: NL's-- yes, I am still doing the Tanaka massage, twice a day (AM& PM). I feel that the massage has been working out sooo well for me.
However, Miranda, you may be on to something with the green smoothies having quite an impact on the NL's as well. I have been faithful about having a green smoothie once a day (first thing in the morning, good girl that I am), which I've been doing for, oh let's say at least 2 months now? I am also trying to have a green soup for lunch. It seemed that the green smoothies had an almost immediate impact on overall skin quality & texture, but I wasn't too sure whether it affected the NL's
For the past week or so I have had a horrible sleep schedule, perhaps about 5-6 hours/ night & frequently interrupted. And yet, my NL's are still being held at bay!! My eyes are red & bloodshot (not too puffy or baggy though) and I definitely look tired, but I feel like I don't look like 100 yrs old... just tired.
I don't know what exactly is at work here-- Tanaka? But perhaps you're right about the green smoothies & NL's Miranda... now I will be terrifed to go a day without them!
(God, I was in such denial about the link between appearance & diet... perhaps because I was able to get away with a crap diet for so long & maintain a decent appearance... ah, my misspent & lost youth! But now, it is just so clear that what goes in the inside is visible on the outside as well!)
I am still getting breakouts... I would hate to think that it is from the Tanaka massage... I don't want to choose between having NL's & clear skin! I am hoping that things are getting better, but as soon as I think that everything is on the up and up, BAM, a new zit!
(I am now back to doing Obagi to even out my poor, uneven & scarred skin. It also seems to be helping a bit with the breakouts.)
(By the way, you are all the best!!! I love this forum!)
Regarding looking weird in car windows & such... I remember that my reflection in windows always looked ugly, even when I was younger. And if I think about the reflection of my beautiful friends in car windows... actually, they don't look so good either. I think it has something to do with the angle, since you're looking *down* into the glass, and your face is drawn downwards & droopy. |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:04 am |
Sean, your advice hasn't let me down yet, so I will give it a go & cut down doing the Tanaka massage to 1x/day. Although I have to admit, I am *afraid* that my NL's will re-emerge!
I already mentioned in the Tanaka massage thread that after missing one of my regular morning sessions, my NL's came back, although it has been a particularly rough week for me, with little sleep and slipping up a bit with my diet. Now that things are returning to normal, my NL's are retreating again.
So... we shall see what happens with doing Tanaka only 1x a day! I've also started dry brushing my face... Sean, how often would you recommend doing this to help clear my skin? Once a day? Thanks for your help! |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:18 am |
Well your not giving it up completely, your just lessening the frequency, which is what could be contributing to the spots also. I think you've gone to the extremes in that doing it twice a day (which is too powerful for most people if its activating the lymph), to not doing it - but there is a happy medium achieveable.
With dry brushing, I would do this day on, day off. Dry brushing also helps the lymph - and I suspect that if you do both dry brushing and Tanaka on the same day the spots will continue to rise, so I would do Tanaka maybe in the morning and then maybe dry brushing at the end of the day (so your body has a good rest in between). I wouldn't do dry brushing more than once a day, but maybe you might be best trying out dry brushing on your face initially once a week, and then increasing and seeing how things go.
| JLM wrote: |
Sean, your advice hasn't let me down yet, so I will give it a go & cut down doing the Tanaka massage to 1x/day. Although I have to admit, I am *afraid* that my NL's will re-emerge!
I already mentioned in the Tanaka massage thread that after missing one of my regular morning sessions, my NL's came back, although it has been a particularly rough week for me, with little sleep and slipping up a bit with my diet. Now that things are returning to normal, my NL's are retreating again.
So... we shall see what happens with doing Tanaka only 1x a day! I've also started dry brushing my face... Sean, how often would you recommend doing this to help clear my skin? Once a day? Thanks for your help! |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 8:46 am |
Hi Sean,
with regards to the dry brushing, would brushing more than once a day be too much for anybody, or is this something we can work up to ? the reason I ask is that I know some people here dry brush their face twice a day,
thanks
Jackie xx |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:12 am |
Well darn! I wish I'd known that a couple of months ago. I had to quit my twice daily Tanaka massages because of the spots. I just started back with doing the massage two times a week and it's not enough to tell a difference. So, Sean, I'm going to take your advice and try it once per day. Doing the massage in the morning makes sense because it perks up your face temporarily. If you do the massage at night, it just makes your skin look better while you sleep. I'll let you know if the spots come back. Oh, and I have also been dry brushing twice per day and doing OCM twice per day. I will cut back on those as well.
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
| Just to comment here, doing the massage twice a day is a lot of lymph clearing. When I do lymphatic massages, I would never do it twice a day - its simply too powerful. When I do my lymphatic massage myself, I do it once a day, otherwise I go into major detox symptons and can have outbreaks etc. start back your routine but maybe only doing it once a day. This way you should be able to maintain the NL's but also have clear skin too. |
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I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:13 am |
Hi Jackie
I suggest people start with brushing once a day. If someone has sensitive skin, they may not be able to manage that (I’ve known of people who have started out by brushing once a week and built up to doing it 2 or 3 times a week over a year). Different strokes for different folks (literally! LOL).
I understand why people might do it twice a day, but I’m not so sure more is better when it comes to brushing the face. However everyone is different, and so I’m sure that it works well for some people, but have a feeling they maybe more exceptions to the rule. With people I work with, the majority find that if they brush more than once a day, they get awkward results.
I’m sure people could work up to it over time though.
Sean
| Jackie284 wrote: |
Hi Sean,
with regards to the dry brushing, would brushing more than once a day be too much for anybody, or is this something we can work up to ? the reason I ask is that I know some people here dry brush their face twice a day,
thanks
Jackie xx |
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FlexEffect Trainer |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:25 am |
I find I can dry-brush once every day and not get any spots. I do the Tanaka massage once for the first time for over 3 weeks and I get a huge cyst (plus 2 spots). I didn't do my dry brushing on the day I did the Tanaka.
I just can't get my head round this. |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:34 pm |
| thanks Sean x |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:01 pm |
| *mirjana* wrote: |
Some mirrors are just cursed
Car and shop windows are condemned, and if you want to know what real horror is, go to store to try bath suit in one of those neon illuminated cabins Sweet Jesus and Mary...unstable girl can jump from the first bridge on the way home
Joke on the side...I am really newborn with Tanaka. Yes I am doing it every morning, and my face looks better and better from day to day. I can see that clearly, because of some condemned mirrors which can made me cry, scream and looking for first plastic surgeon to cut me up Now, I can pass near them without any fear |
You are an absolute delight!
I also agree with everything you said..(bridge and all.. ) |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:44 pm |
One time was enough to do that? I'd be tempted to run from it if I were you!
| This is Miranda wrote: |
I find I can dry-brush once every day and not get any spots. I do the Tanaka massage once for the first time for over 3 weeks and I get a huge cyst (plus 2 spots). I didn't do my dry brushing on the day I did the Tanaka.
I just can't get my head round this. |
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I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:09 am |
| Tonia wrote: |
Well darn! I wish I'd known that a couple of months ago. I had to quit my twice daily Tanaka massages because of the spots. I just started back with doing the massage two times a week and it's not enough to tell a difference. So, Sean, I'm going to take your advice and try it once per day. Doing the massage in the morning makes sense because it perks up your face temporarily. If you do the massage at night, it just makes your skin look better while you sleep. I'll let you know if the spots come back. Oh, and I have also been dry brushing twice per day and doing OCM twice per day. I will cut back on those as well.
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
| Just to comment here, doing the massage twice a day is a lot of lymph clearing. When I do lymphatic massages, I would never do it twice a day - its simply too powerful. When I do my lymphatic massage myself, I do it once a day, otherwise I go into major detox symptons and can have outbreaks etc. start back your routine but maybe only doing it once a day. This way you should be able to maintain the NL's but also have clear skin too. |
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Thanks for sharing your routine Tonia! I think I'm going to try something along these lines & see whether I can maintain having gotten rid of those NL's and have clear skin as well! |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:10 am |
I just wanted to update-- I've stopped doing the Tanaka massage for the past few days because it was causing my breakouts. I was getting acne prior to Tanaka and was hoping that it was not the cause... I really didn't want to believe that it was true! However, given all the changes that I've incorporated, I'm afraid that Tanaka is now the primary cause of my breakouts, and so I must stop. Today is the first day I have not gotten any new acne in months.
I was very afraid that my NL lines would reappear. However, they have been held pretty much at bay, which I attribute to the FE & Ageless programs. These exercise programs have definitely given me a more sculpted look, & built out my cheeks, which has helped to lift out the NLs. I am now doing these programs every other day, as it seemed that doing them every day was giving me too much of a sinewy sort of look.
The green smoothies probably haven't hurt either!
However, the Tanaka massage seems to add an additional lifting & pulling back effect... for example, when I held my head down in a certain position, the NL lines were not evident while I was doing Tanaka. Now that I've stopped, I can see them, faintly, but I can see them. And I can also see them in my horrible mirror in the dark hallway of my house.
I have a Dermawand on its way, which I am thinking about using in conjunction with Tanaka, if I resume. I also have the Tian Yong accupressure DVD on its way, which I'm hoping will give me the same sort of lifted effect as Tanaka, if Tanaka doesn't work out. (And then there's the new FE DVD that's also on it's way... ai yi yi, mucho dinero.)
The NL's are definitely in better shape than when I first started this thread, almost non-existent. But now that I've seen that they really can be taken care of completely, I want them gone! (I should post a picture & will try to get hubby to do it this weekend.) |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:19 am |
I've also given up on the Tanaka. Just not worth the spots, cysts and numerous marks they leave behind.
I've decided on a new tack; to strengthen the muscles (namely risorius and zygomatic major) that will hopefully help pull out and flatten my orbi oris mouth muscle.
My line from my nose isn't what bothers me, it's the line around my mouth that does.
The first pic shows how I look normally, the second I'm gently straightening out the line round my mouth - I haven't moved the line that forms from my nose and I'm not lifting up my cheek. It looks so much better with the parentheses line flattened.
I'm going to use my Tua Viso at a high level (5) to strengthen the risorius and zyco whilst holding my top lip to stop it contracting towards the TV which accentuates my ( ) lines further.
Sometimes we don't have to work to get rid of the full N/L's, many young people have a dip by their nose - I have a strong mouth, I'm always going to have a line up there. I think it's better to focus on one part of the problem.
Any views on this method?
PS my skin looks much better in the photos that in reality... no, I haven't plastered vaseline on the lens but for some reason you can't see my post-Tanaka marks or last night's deep blood-spotted dermaroll blotches! |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:50 am |
This Is Miranda - holy cow! Those are some nice pouty puckers you've got! Beautiful lips ... I'm crazy jealous!
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
| Well your not giving it up completely, your just lessening the frequency, which is what could be contributing to the spots also. I think you've gone to the extremes in that doing it twice a day (which is too powerful for most people if its activating the lymph), to not doing it - but there is a happy medium achieveable. |
SeanySeanUK, can you give me a brief lesson in lymph? Why is more activation of the lymph bad? If I dry-brush my body twice a day, why shouldn't I dry-brush my face twice a day? And isn't the lymph system all connected, sort of like the circulatory system ... so if I use a rebounder or dry-brush my legs, wouldn't the lymph in my face be activated anyways?
I'm so distressed that ya'll have started spotting and breaking out! I've increased the tanaka from once a week to twice a day and now I'm really freaking out that a breakout is coming around the corner! |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:06 am |
| murray28 wrote: |
This Is Miranda - holy cow! Those are some nice pouty puckers you've got! Beautiful lips ... I'm crazy jealous!
| SeanySeanUK wrote: |
| Well your not giving it up completely, your just lessening the frequency, which is what could be contributing to the spots also. I think you've gone to the extremes in that doing it twice a day (which is too powerful for most people if its activating the lymph), to not doing it - but there is a happy medium achieveable. |
SeanySeanUK, can you give me a brief lesson in lymph? Why is more activation of the lymph bad? If I dry-brush my body twice a day, why shouldn't I dry-brush my face twice a day? And isn't the lymph system all connected, sort of like the circulatory system ... so if I use a rebounder or dry-brush my legs, wouldn't the lymph in my face be activated anyways?
I'm so distressed that ya'll have started spotting and breaking out! I've increased the tanaka from once a week to twice a day and now I'm really freaking out that a breakout is coming around the corner! |
I second the idea of a lesson in lymph (please)!
Murray, if it gives you any comfort, it seemed that as soon as I stopped Tanaka, the breakout ceased almost immediately (at least for me). The zits were not the hang-around-for-months type (which I am now used to  ) Right now everything is healing on my face.
Miranda, I am waiting with baited breath to hear from one of our resident facial exercise experts about your strategy! Did you see on the Tian Yong accupressure DVD thread (which Sean started) that Skippie has reported seeing good results with her parentheses lines, in conjunction with Tanaka? I can't wait to get my hands on it & report!
(And Miranda, parentheses lines or no parentheses lines, I bet you look like a *Wow* in real life!) |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:43 am |
Miranda, you have great lips! Some women would pay a lot of money for lips like that.
You mentioned having lines around your mouth. How long have you had those? The reason I ask is, I have gotten them for the first time in my life since starting Ageless about two weeks ago. I haven't read all of the Ageless thread yet, so this may be normal. Do you think that's what caused yours? I have natural NL's that I would like to diminish, but I can live with them. The lines around my mouth are ugly. They must go! |
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I always lie about my age. I tell everyone I'm 10 years older than I really am. Everyone thinks I look great! |
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Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:50 am |
| Ok, I'm getting a little confused. This thread has been all about the parentheses lines aka marionette lines aka NL lines/folds. They are all one in the same right. I'm a bit confused because some are talking to lines underneath the nose as NLs. These aren't the NLs right? |
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