Nasolabial Folds--What's Worked and How Long Did It Take?
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free skin care · Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:37 pm

My nutrition training often pointed to the Chinese Five Elements theory, and your right we always were taught that NLs were actually a sign of an overactive or underactive digestive system. I say system, because it would often include the liver, the spleen, the pancreas as well as the other organs.

Now for the digestion, I used to always ask about people's digestions and sometimes simply adding digestive enzyme supplements seemed to do it - but it didn't happen for everyone. What I would basically then work with them to do was to work out what foods would be overly challenging to their body and the biggest two I have found were wheat, and dairy. I had two clients who cut them out and within 48 hours - they vanished (literally). One had a tolerance test and found out she was wheat intolerant.

It doesn't appear to work for everyone though!

Sean

Tonia wrote:

SeanyseanUK, can you go back to your diet comment? I read an article by a Japanese woman saying that NL folds are a dietary issue. She said that people with very exaggerated NL folds usually have some kind of stomach or digestive problems like chronic constipation. She said if you fix the stomach problem, it fixes the NL folds. Basically, a healthy digestive system can work wonders in this area. I wonder if there is any truth to that.

free skin care · Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:37 pm

Vor wrote:

This teeth is fully depending on the teeth. If the teeth are too short and the face has to be pressed together to say letters like S and F, you will get this fold. If you're teeth are long and you can speak with no trouble, you won't get it.
Get your teeth fixed!

huh?

free skin care · Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:45 pm

Wow SeanyseanUK, that's great information. Thank you for sharing.

Is a sensitivity different from an allergy? I mean, to get tested for a wheat sensitivity do you go to an allergist or a homeopathic Dr.?

free skin care · Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:58 pm

Wow-- this is all so interesting!

The idea that stomach & digestive problems might be a factor in causing N/L folds is quite intriguing! If this is in fact the case, it stands to reason that MSM would be very helpful in alleviating the appearance of N/L folds by helping the body to "detox", making the cell membranes more permeable so that wastes can be carried away. I've also read on different EDS threads that MSM is supposed to make the skin a bit tighter, so that probably helps too. Snowqueen67, I'm also planning on working my way up to 8000mg/day, originally for hyperpigmentation issues, but perhaps it will work on the N/L fold as well!

And again, if how efficiently your body carries out wastes impacts the N/L folds, then it makes sense that stimulating the lymph system, through massage or perhaps a rebounder (I have one!) would also be very helpful. I have noticed that on the days that I rebound, the N/L fold does appear somewhat better-- I must find a way to rebound more frequently... *sigh*

It seems that there are quite a few good potential long-term fixes to the N/L fold-- facial resistance exercises, lymphatic/ facial massage, topicals (retin-a, matrixyl-- although does anyone know whether copper peptides would make the N/L fold worse?), dermarolling, diet, stimulating the lymph system-- but I wish there was something that would work more in the short/ medium term! (I will test that Frownies idea shortly!) It would be nice to have something that works in the short-term to cover things until the long-term stuff kicks in!

free skin care · Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:01 pm

SeanySeanUK wrote:

My nutrition training often pointed to the Chinese Five Elements theory, and your right we always were taught that NLs were actually a sign of an overactive or underactive digestive system. I say system, because it would often include the liver, the spleen, the pancreas as well as the other organs.

Now for the digestion, I used to always ask about people's digestions and sometimes simply adding digestive enzyme supplements seemed to do it - but it didn't happen for everyone. What I would basically then work with them to do was to work out what foods would be overly challenging to their body and the biggest two I have found were wheat, and dairy. I had two clients who cut them out and within 48 hours - they vanished (literally). One had a tolerance test and found out she was wheat intolerant.

It doesn't appear to work for everyone though!

Sean

Tonia wrote:

SeanyseanUK, can you go back to your diet comment? I read an article by a Japanese woman saying that NL folds are a dietary issue. She said that people with very exaggerated NL folds usually have some kind of stomach or digestive problems like chronic constipation. She said if you fix the stomach problem, it fixes the NL folds. Basically, a healthy digestive system can work wonders in this area. I wonder if there is any truth to that.

Sean,
I think you are right on the money with the nutritional aspect with the n/l problem. I have seen major changes in my face when I started drinking green smoothies. I wouldn't have ever been open to believing this until I experienced it myself. N/L were one of my concerns and I have had a history of sluggish digestive problems, Smoothies are really helping to fortify my nutritional needs and I have cut out wheat, dairy, and the over abundance of protein. The changes in my face are amazing. So many of us are eager to buy a new cream or a facial device when we should first start with nutrition.

free skin care · Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:41 pm

Toby, your NL's improved when you started the green smoothies? I have to admit that I have strayed from the green smoothies. I need to go back to it.

free skin care · Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:50 pm

Tonia wrote:

Toby, your NL's improved when you started the green smoothies? I have to admit that I have strayed from the green smoothies. I need to go back to it.

Yes the smoothies really did the trick....I think it is the greens in them

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:48 am

I think an allegery and sensitivity are different things, in that an allergy puts the body into shock, and a sensitivity overburdens the body - but in the long term I suppose they can be seen or judged to be the same thing.

With allergies, you might notice for example if you eat nuts, you get redness, swelling around the throat/jawline, but with sensitivities, you might not get any physical symptons per se, but you may be putting your digestive organs under stress, they might have to work overtime to digest the food and rid itself of the waste of it.

Make sense?

Sean

Tonia wrote:

Wow SeanyseanUK, that's great information. Thank you for sharing.

Is a sensitivity different from an allergy? I mean, to get tested for a wheat sensitivity do you go to an allergist or a homeopathic Dr.?

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:51 am

Well it seems to help many people - but I have to add, it doesn't help them all.

Great re the green smoothies. When I first started recommending them years ago, I did so because it was an easier way of getting one of the five portions of vegetables or fruits into the diet in a fast, uncooked state - so the vegetables or fruits you would use would give your body their full nutritional content and even if the taste was bad, it only lasted a couple of seconds.

The juicing is fantastic because it allows you to get the minerals (the all important forgotten guys in my opinion).

Glad its working for you - and please readers try it out - your be amazed at not only the changes to your skin, but your energy levels, moods etc. They really are natures superfoods!

Sean

Toby wrote:

Sean,
I think you are right on the money with the nutritional aspect with the n/l problem. I have seen major changes in my face when I started drinking green smoothies. I wouldn't have ever been open to believing this until I experienced it myself. N/L were one of my concerns and I have had a history of sluggish digestive problems, Smoothies are really helping to fortify my nutritional needs and I have cut out wheat, dairy, and the over abundance of protein. The changes in my face are amazing. So many of us are eager to buy a new cream or a facial device when we should first start with nutrition.

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:23 am

The thing is, changing one's diet, even by adding green smoothies, is just so *hard*! Would drinking up the pre-bottled green juices do just as much good? Also, Toby/ Tonia, how long did it take until you felt the green smoothies made a substantial difference on the N/L? Thanks for the info!

The thing is, I think I'm realizing I'm looking for short-term fix until the other things kick in, although maybe things will come together faster if I do everything! It does seem like a lot to do though...

Snowqueen67, did you have a good experience with the Sculptra? Did you have the option of going with Artefill, and if so, why did you choose Sculptra instead?

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:15 am

I started the Green Smoothies simply because for years I have felt guilty about not getting the recommended about of veggie and fruits. I like fruits and limited about of veggies but wouldn't have touched spinach with a ten foot pole. Laughing

Although I am blessed with health I see the aging issues of my parents and don't want to follow their path with tons of medications that have so many side effects. That thought drove me to trying green smoothies. I have an extremely stressful job and no time to do alot of cooking so drinking smoothies on the run made sense. To my amazement the beauty benefits won me over ten fold. I feel foolish that I haven't tried them before and stayed focused on addressing beauty issues from the outside in, instead of from the inside out Embarassed

. Anyway take advice from one that really doubted that nutrition would make that much of a difference.....With every smoothie I drink I feel like it is the best insurance to longelivity and beauty. This week I was thought by a colleague to be fifteen years younger than I am. So either she needs new glasses or something here is working Laughing

I noticed changes in my face within the first three weeks and have continued to see improvement as I go. I have been drinking smoothies for four months. This is a thread that I started about Green smoothies http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35013&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:22 am

Hi everyone,

I've been drinking the smoothies for a couple of months now, but have noticed that I'm starting to have a reaction to them. My sinuses block up, my throat feel scratchy and my lips feel dry. I don't suppose these could be any kinds of further detox symptoms, so does anyone have any ideas what would cause this?

I've rotated the greens, but it seems to be happening with all of them,

thanks for any info,

Jackie xx

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:32 am

Jackie284 wrote:

Hi everyone,

I've been drinking the smoothies for a couple of months now, but have noticed that I'm starting to have a reaction to them. My sinuses block up, my throat feel scratchy and my lips feel dry. I don't suppose these could be any kinds of further detox symptoms, so does anyone have any ideas what would cause this?

I've rotated the greens, but it seems to be happening with all of them,

thanks for any info,

Jackie xx

I wouldn't begin to know what is happening but my first thought is maybe there is one thing that is in all of your smoothies that is causing an allergic reaction. Maybe if you post this on the smoothie thread you will get an answer from one of the more experienced smoothie drinkers. Also there is a smoothie forum http://greensmoothieforum.com/?page_id=29&wpforumaction=viewtopic&t=59.0

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:48 am

You can look at it that way, but the real key is to change slowly not go into completely raw food. That would be overwhelming for most people. Re prebottled smoothies, I suppose they would be better than nothing, but I would worry they have things added to them to prolong their shelf life etc. I think your get the most from making them yourself. Re timeline, it depends on the person's body concerned and the state of health its in. Some people experience severe detox symptons, others don't notice anything until about 3 weeks.

With short-term fixes, they are never worth it because usually you end up looking worse off as you have to undo the damage done by the fix itself. I would instead look at things like massage as a way of lessening the current nls you have, and over time this will improve and improve.

Sean

jeanleemarquis wrote:

The thing is, changing one's diet, even by adding green smoothies, is just so *hard*! Would drinking up the pre-bottled green juices do just as much good? Also, Toby/ Tonia, how long did it take until you felt the green smoothies made a substantial difference on the N/L? Thanks for the info!

The thing is, I think I'm realizing I'm looking for short-term fix until the other things kick in, although maybe things will come together faster if I do everything! It does seem like a lot to do though...

Snowqueen67, did you have a good experience with the Sculptra? Did you have the option of going with Artefill, and if so, why did you choose Sculptra instead?

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:50 am

Jackie - how many months exactly? The reason I ask is that when I was learning nutrition we were always taught you need to take supplements for at least 3 months for the body to get used to having a regular supply and being able to utilise them? I'm just wondering whether that could be whats happening here?

It does sound like detox symptons, but I'm also wondering if perhaps your having something that is too challenging for your body. Also whats the consistency like? Maybe you need to dilute the juices a little more so its watery. It sounds strange, but sometimes the body can struggle with pure vegetable juice initially and so by diluting it with water, your body will not be under so much stress physical in digesting and using the nutrients there.

Sean

Jackie284 wrote:

Hi everyone,

I've been drinking the smoothies for a couple of months now, but have noticed that I'm starting to have a reaction to them. My sinuses block up, my throat feel scratchy and my lips feel dry. I don't suppose these could be any kinds of further detox symptoms, so does anyone have any ideas what would cause this?

I've rotated the greens, but it seems to be happening with all of them,

thanks for any info,

Jackie xx

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:58 am

Hi Sean,

thanks for your reply. I have been having them for about 3 months now, and I was feeling the benefits. The consistency varies really, and I seemed ok on them. It really feels like an allergic response, my head is banging, my eyes and lower face are puffy. I'm wondering whether I have loaded my system with toxins recently, through painkillers etc. I feel really disappointed at the thought of not being able to have them,

thanks again

Jackie x

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:59 am

Jackie, are you putting avocados in your smoothies? I put them in my smoothies for a while and had similar symptoms that started gradually. After a few weeks, I figured out that I am allergic to avocados. Once I quit putting them in my smoothies, the symptoms went away within 2-3 days. I didn't notice any improvement until the second day without the avocado because it took that long for it to start clearing out of my system. A lot of people are also allergic to acai powder.

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:09 am

Regarding the improvement in NL folds, my problem was that I had jowels earlier than I should have had them. The jowels made it look like NLs but they extended all the way down to my jawline. When I started the green smoothies, they disappeared within about two weeks. My skin did improve and the dark circles under my eyes improved as well.

Green smoothies are easy to make. They don't take long and they eliminate your cravings for junk food within the first few weeks. You start to actually crave salads. It's crazy.

Now that I'm talking about it, I can't believe I've slacked off on them. Even though I haven't had one in about three weeks, the jowels have not returned. I'm sure they will if I don't get back to it.

Here is an easy way to get started. It's my favorite recipe by far.

Start by tossing two big handfuls of spinach into a blender. Core and cut up one apple into large chunks and toss into blender. Then, you can add the juice of 1/2 lemon or, 2 TBS of organic lemon juice. Add one cup of cold water. I like to use a packet of stevia powder because I like the taste.

Blend well until you no longer see visible chunks of spinach. If the blender has trouble blending, add more water. It's important that the water is cold or it won't taste as good.

The first time I tried this, I was shocked by how good it tastes.

Tonia

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:28 am

Tonia wrote:

Jackie, are you putting avocados in your smoothies? I put them in my smoothies for a while and had similar symptoms that started gradually. After a few weeks, I figured out that I am allergic to avocados. Once I quit putting them in my smoothies, the symptoms went away within 2-3 days. I didn't notice any improvement until the second day without the avocado because it took that long for it to start clearing out of my system. A lot of people are also allergic to acai powder.

Hi Tonia,

it's very strange you say that because, about a week ago (when this started) I included an avocado when I was stocking up on greens. I only used half, but felt really sick afterwards and i'm usually ok with avocado. Needless to say, I didn't use the rest of the avocado, but a week later and although the nausea has gone, my sinuses are sore and the lower part of my face is very puffy. Could it just be taking a while to leave my system?

thanks
Jackie xx

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:07 pm

Hi Jackie, I PM'd my response to you.

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:36 pm

Okay Toby & Tonia, I just finished my first green smoothie! Let's see what happens in 3 weeks or so! 3 weeks is really not too bad of a timeframe to have the N/L folds vanish, if the green smoothies take care of it in this time. I'm just afraid that I won't be able to keep this up indefinitely, but perhaps fear of losing results will drive me to maintain!

I do have to say that I'm a bit skeptical whether the green smoothies will help-- my diet is pretty decent, perhaps not perfect, but I hardly touch anything that's processed, hydrogenated, etc... eat my fruits, not as many veggies, but some... well, we'll see what happens. Certainly can't hurt!

Also, I did a dermarolling session last night with my 1.5mm roller & got some blood spots, which I didn't get before. Although I don't *think* that enough time will have passed in 3 weeks for the new collagen to have been laid down (unless it's the result of the 3 previous dermarolling sessions that I've done, which did not draw blood). Still, it will be hard to attribute what causes the changes (if any) to the N/L folds.

The strategy to date:

-Diet: Green Smoothies (most recent addition)

-Supplements: MSM, working up to 8000mg/day, (for about 3 weeks)

-Retin-A .05%, 1x day (at night), up from .025%, since October

-Facial Exercise: Flex Effect/ Ageless, 6x/ week, since end of August (about 2 1/2 months)

-Dermarolling: 1x month, since end of August (3 times)

I also plan on doing some lymphatic massage/ rebounding more frequently, but we'll see how it goes.

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:38 pm

By the way Jackie, I hope you feel better soon!

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:50 pm

thanks guys!

Jackie xx

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:56 pm

Jeanleemarquis, wow, you are making quite an effort. I hope this works for you. Please keep us posted on your results.

Jackie284, I just realized that I worded that badly. I said that the symptoms went away within 2-3 days. I should have said that they started to improve within 2-3 days. I saw no improvement at all until the second day. It took over a week for the symptoms to completely disappear.

free skin care · Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:04 pm

Smoothie people do you think adding protein powder to the smoothie would compromise the goodness. I have had for my breakfast for the last 5 years blueberries Linseed's oatmilk + protein powder smoothies. I love and its quick and keeps me satisfied to lunch. I have done the juices too but the protein powder is what satiates me so I want to continue this. I am thinking of adding spinach now as well but what do you think on the protein?

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