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Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:16 pm  |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| doodles wrote: |
| DM, just wondering why you would chance using ReLuma, another stem cell cytokine product, when you had such disastrous and scary results from AnteAge? |
I have one more question as this is becoming a trend here on a few threads by a few members.
Why single out just me about a choice to try a different product? I notice many other members who try many more products than I ever have, it is really starting to seem like personal nitpicking? |
DM, I don't know if you noticed but I have made approximately 150 posts in the 7 years that I have been a member. I can hardly be included in the trend that you seem to have noticed. I asked a simple question. I didn't mean to imply anything. If it was me that had uncontrolled tissue growth from one product I would be extremely leery of using another product with pretty much the same ingredients. Doodles |
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48 years old. Very acne prone. Staples: Retin-A/Tazorac and C serum. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:17 pm |
| A belated thanks, DrJ, for your responses to my questions. I appreciate it. |
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34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:26 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
Had a conference with a colleague who studies differential secretomes and transcriptomes of stem cells. This gets down to gene expressions. Lots of new insight into the difference between adipose-derived (AD) and bone marrow-derived (BM)MSC's, in culture, and in vivo. AD-MSC's are far more tuned to inflammatory responses, and inflammatory chemokines, according to their transcriptome. They communicate extensively with mast (immune) cells in fat tissue, involving stimulatory cytokines. They may in fact be responsible for the inflammatory aspect of obesity, that can lead to diabetes, metabolic syndrome, atherosclerosis, etc. Turns out that conditioned medium from adipose stem cells can be "net inflammatory" vs anti-inflammatory (depends on how you treat them in culture). The secretome is geared toward high TGF-beta 1&2 whereas BM-MSC secrete more TGF-beta 3. So, while they are cheaper, and grow more easily in culture, AD-MSC's seem not to be the anti-inflammatory scar-free TGF-beta 3 rich healing powerhouses that BM-MSC's represent. There is also a whole chondrogenic vs. lipogenic orientation aspect to this that speaks to collagen production.
I'm going to pull all this information into a post in the near future. For all you science nerdy types. |
Yes, I think I saw a paper on this in the past few months where the media from adipocytes harvested from obese animals was then applied to lean adipocytes and the net result was an impairment in insulin pathways. That's why I asked earlier about the important distinction between BM- vs AD-MSCs, as I suspect the difference matters quite a bit! |
_________________
34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:47 pm |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Had a conference with a colleague who studies differential secretomes and transcriptomes of stem cells. This gets down to gene expressions. Lots of new insight into the difference between adipose-derived (AD) and bone marrow-derived (BM)MSC's, in culture, and in vivo. AD-MSC's are far more tuned to inflammatory responses, and inflammatory chemokines, according to their transcriptome. They communicate extensively with mast (immune) cells in fat tissue, involving stimulatory cytokines. They may in fact be responsible for the inflammatory aspect of obesity, that can lead to diabetes, metabolic syndrome, atherosclerosis, etc. Turns out that conditioned medium from adipose stem cells can be "net inflammatory" vs anti-inflammatory (depends on how you treat them in culture). The secretome is geared toward high TGF-beta 1&2 whereas BM-MSC secrete more TGF-beta 3. So, while they are cheaper, and grow more easily in culture, AD-MSC's seem not to be the anti-inflammatory scar-free TGF-beta 3 rich healing powerhouses that BM-MSC's represent. There is also a whole chondrogenic vs. lipogenic orientation aspect to this that speaks to collagen production.
I'm going to pull all this information into a post in the near future. For all you science nerdy types. |
Yes, I think I saw a paper on this in the past few months where the media from adipocytes harvested from obese animals was then applied to lean adipocytes and the net result was an impairment in insulin pathways. That's why I asked earlier about the important distinction between BM- vs AD-MSCs, as I suspect the difference matters quite a bit! |
Very interesting....thanks for sharing this! |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:57 pm |
| doodles wrote: |
| If it was me that had uncontrolled tissue growth from one product I would be extremely leery of using another product with pretty much the same ingredients. Doodles |
Doodles, I think this is a good question regarding the tissue growth, and I copied this post of yours to the Stem Cell Technology thread. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:08 pm |
Oh, yes, DarkMoon, I don't buy into that "it takes 6 weeks/months to see results" and "pimples are good" mambo jumbo.  In fact, all my favourite products - Retin A, Vit C, Lactic acid peel, Valmont Renewing Pack, Paula's Choice moisturizers - give me immediate results.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
Well RS after over a week the Toll Free number is finally back in service, I wish I had taken advantage and sent mine back before the 30 days was up!
Toll Free # 1-877-350-6350 
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
| I've been using the serum for 6 days day and night, and so far I have nothing to report. I notice absolutely no difference in my skin, no reduction in redness, no increased hydration or plumpness. In fact, I've noticed much more difference from using a sample of the new $20 Paula's Choice Natural moisturizer for 2 days than from a whole week of using the serum. Very disappointing, I must say. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:44 pm |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
| I've been using the serum for 6 days day and night, and so far I have nothing to report. I notice absolutely no difference in my skin, no reduction in redness, no increased hydration or plumpness. In fact, I've noticed much more difference from using a sample of the new $20 Paula's Choice Natural moisturizer for 2 days than from a whole week of using the serum. Very disappointing, I must say. |
Do you have problems with skin dryness generally? Did you use any other products in the last six days? |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:31 pm |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Had a conference with a colleague who studies differential secretomes and transcriptomes of stem cells. This gets down to gene expressions. Lots of new insight into the difference between adipose-derived (AD) and bone marrow-derived (BM)MSC's, in culture, and in vivo. AD-MSC's are far more tuned to inflammatory responses, and inflammatory chemokines, according to their transcriptome. They communicate extensively with mast (immune) cells in fat tissue, involving stimulatory cytokines. They may in fact be responsible for the inflammatory aspect of obesity, that can lead to diabetes, metabolic syndrome, atherosclerosis, etc. Turns out that conditioned medium from adipose stem cells can be "net inflammatory" vs anti-inflammatory (depends on how you treat them in culture). The secretome is geared toward high TGF-beta 1&2 whereas BM-MSC secrete more TGF-beta 3. So, while they are cheaper, and grow more easily in culture, AD-MSC's seem not to be the anti-inflammatory scar-free TGF-beta 3 rich healing powerhouses that BM-MSC's represent. There is also a whole chondrogenic vs. lipogenic orientation aspect to this that speaks to collagen production.
I'm going to pull all this information into a post in the near future. For all you science nerdy types. |
Yes, I think I saw a paper on this in the past few months where the media from adipocytes harvested from obese animals was then applied to lean adipocytes and the net result was an impairment in insulin pathways. That's why I asked earlier about the important distinction between BM- vs AD-MSCs, as I suspect the difference matters quite a bit! |
Another key difference that a colleague pointed out this week is that adipose stem cells are generally retrieved from 40-60 year old humans, the average age for receiving liposuction procedures (the cells are derived from the fat that is suctioned). In contrast the average age for bone marrow aspirate donors is 22 years (they are recruited from the athletic departments of universities). This means the starter cells in ADSC cultures are considerable older than those in BMSC cultures,and have already undergone a number of generations. Since stem cells themselves age (yes, ever get shorter telomeres) it may have something to to with the difference in cytokines expressed. In particular ones like IL-8 which is part of what differentiates fetal wound healing (scarless) from older adult healing (more fibrotic) as well as the TGF-beta family. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:39 pm |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
Oh, yes, DarkMoon, I don't buy into that "it takes 6 weeks/months to see results" and "pimples are good" mambo jumbo. In fact, all my favourite products - Retin A, Vit C, Lactic acid peel, Valmont Renewing Pack, Paula's Choice moisturizers - give me immediate results.
| DarkMoon wrote: |
Well RS after over a week the Toll Free number is finally back in service, I wish I had taken advantage and sent mine back before the 30 days was up!
Toll Free # 1-877-350-6350
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
| I've been using the serum for 6 days day and night, and so far I have nothing to report. I notice absolutely no difference in my skin, no reduction in redness, no increased hydration or plumpness. In fact, I've noticed much more difference from using a sample of the new $20 Paula's Choice Natural moisturizer for 2 days than from a whole week of using the serum. Very disappointing, I must say. |
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You're lucky. In my experience, products that gave me immediate results also gave me temporary ones. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:47 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Had a conference with a colleague who studies differential secretomes and transcriptomes of stem cells. This gets down to gene expressions. Lots of new insight into the difference between adipose-derived (AD) and bone marrow-derived (BM)MSC's, in culture, and in vivo. AD-MSC's are far more tuned to inflammatory responses, and inflammatory chemokines, according to their transcriptome. They communicate extensively with mast (immune) cells in fat tissue, involving stimulatory cytokines. They may in fact be responsible for the inflammatory aspect of obesity, that can lead to diabetes, metabolic syndrome, atherosclerosis, etc. Turns out that conditioned medium from adipose stem cells can be "net inflammatory" vs anti-inflammatory (depends on how you treat them in culture). The secretome is geared toward high TGF-beta 1&2 whereas BM-MSC secrete more TGF-beta 3. So, while they are cheaper, and grow more easily in culture, AD-MSC's seem not to be the anti-inflammatory scar-free TGF-beta 3 rich healing powerhouses that BM-MSC's represent. There is also a whole chondrogenic vs. lipogenic orientation aspect to this that speaks to collagen production.
I'm going to pull all this information into a post in the near future. For all you science nerdy types. |
Yes, I think I saw a paper on this in the past few months where the media from adipocytes harvested from obese animals was then applied to lean adipocytes and the net result was an impairment in insulin pathways. That's why I asked earlier about the important distinction between BM- vs AD-MSCs, as I suspect the difference matters quite a bit! |
Another key difference that a colleague pointed out this week is that adipose stem cells are generally retrieved from 40-60 year old humans, the average age for receiving liposuction procedures (the cells are derived from the fat that is suctioned). In contrast the average age for bone marrow aspirate donors is 22 years (they are recruited from the athletic departments of universities). This means the starter cells in ADSC cultures are considerable older than those in BMSC cultures,and have already undergone a number of generations. Since stem cells themselves age (yes, ever get shorter telomeres) it may have something to to with the difference in cytokines expressed. In particular ones like IL-8 which is part of what differentiates fetal wound healing (scarless) from older adult healing (more fibrotic) as well as the TGF-beta family. |
Are you saying in the state of California that the average age for lipo is 40-60! who are you kidding, every teenager that has parents with money is not only getting lipo but nice ta ta's to go along with their new flat tummies and hips!
CookieD pointed out that the Re Luma's founders are from UCLA's acclaimed lab, the one your photo is of on Cellese, she actually asked if yall all knew each other, actually good question, do you?
I would think, most students there are 18-23? So why in the world would you infer you only use young people and all other companies that are not using "bone marrow" use old people. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:01 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Had a conference with a colleague who studies differential secretomes and transcriptomes of stem cells. This gets down to gene expressions. Lots of new insight into the difference between adipose-derived (AD) and bone marrow-derived (BM)MSC's, in culture, and in vivo. AD-MSC's are far more tuned to inflammatory responses, and inflammatory chemokines, according to their transcriptome. They communicate extensively with mast (immune) cells in fat tissue, involving stimulatory cytokines. They may in fact be responsible for the inflammatory aspect of obesity, that can lead to diabetes, metabolic syndrome, atherosclerosis, etc. Turns out that conditioned medium from adipose stem cells can be "net inflammatory" vs anti-inflammatory (depends on how you treat them in culture). The secretome is geared toward high TGF-beta 1&2 whereas BM-MSC secrete more TGF-beta 3. So, while they are cheaper, and grow more easily in culture, AD-MSC's seem not to be the anti-inflammatory scar-free TGF-beta 3 rich healing powerhouses that BM-MSC's represent. There is also a whole chondrogenic vs. lipogenic orientation aspect to this that speaks to collagen production.
I'm going to pull all this information into a post in the near future. For all you science nerdy types. |
Yes, I think I saw a paper on this in the past few months where the media from adipocytes harvested from obese animals was then applied to lean adipocytes and the net result was an impairment in insulin pathways. That's why I asked earlier about the important distinction between BM- vs AD-MSCs, as I suspect the difference matters quite a bit! |
Another key difference that a colleague pointed out this week is that adipose stem cells are generally retrieved from 40-60 year old humans, the average age for receiving liposuction procedures (the cells are derived from the fat that is suctioned). In contrast the average age for bone marrow aspirate donors is 22 years (they are recruited from the athletic departments of universities). This means the starter cells in ADSC cultures are considerable older than those in BMSC cultures,and have already undergone a number of generations. Since stem cells themselves age (yes, ever get shorter telomeres) it may have something to to with the difference in cytokines expressed. In particular ones like IL-8 which is part of what differentiates fetal wound healing (scarless) from older adult healing (more fibrotic) as well as the TGF-beta family. |
Are you saying in the state of California that the average age for lipo is 40-60! who are you kidding, every teenager that has parents with money is not only getting lipo but nice ta ta's to go along with their new flat tummies and hips!
CookieD pointed out that the Re Luma's founders are from UCLA's acclaimed lab, the one your photo is of on Cellese, she actually asked if yall all knew each other, actually good question, do you?
I would think, most students there are 18-23? So why in the world would you infer you only use young people and all other companies that are not using "bone marrow" use old people.
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The data on liposuction came from a surgeon who does them, and he was quoting broad averages from the US literature. I think the mean age was ~48. Actually the trend is seeing older patients, not younger, show up for lipo.
Do not know. Which UCLA lab? (I graduated UCLA).
I don't understand your point. Don't you think 18-23 is younger by comparison? Or do you not think that people getting liposuction are older? |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:02 pm |
| marina wrote: |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
| Oh, yes, DarkMoon, I don't buy into that "it takes 6 weeks/months to see results" and "pimples are good" mambo jumbo. In fact, all my favourite products - Retin A, Vit C, Lactic acid peel, Valmont Renewing Pack, Paula's Choice moisturizers - give me immediate results. |
You're lucky. In my experience, products that gave me immediate results also gave me temporary ones. |
marina Most topicals give temporary results, once you stop them, the effect is gone! |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
| I've been using the serum for 6 days day and night, and so far I have nothing to report. I notice absolutely no difference in my skin, no reduction in redness, no increased hydration or plumpness. In fact, I've noticed much more difference from using a sample of the new $20 Paula's Choice Natural moisturizer for 2 days than from a whole week of using the serum. Very disappointing, I must say. |
Do you have problems with skin dryness generally? Did you use any other products in the last six days? |
Day 1
AM: Olay sensitive wash, AnteAGe serum, a bit of tinted Moisturizer with SPF if going outside
PM: Olay wash, AnteAge serum
Day 2: same
Day 3: PM: AnteAge Serum, Retin A 2 hours later
Day 4: Paula's Choice Moisturizing mask during the day, PM: same as Day 1
Day 5: same as Day 1
Day 6: same as Day 4
Day 7: used Cure face gel, applied the AnteAge serum, face stung like crazy, washed it off, and applied the Paula's Choice Natural Moisturizer instead, skin is hydrated and calm.
I have skin dryness only occasionally, usually on days after using Retin A. That's why I don't use moisturizers regularly, only serums. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm |
This is more of a customer service question, but I'll post it here.
I have been trying to get a response from the Cellese customer service for almost a week now.
My sister in law and I ordered samples and received them, but there wasn't enough product to even use one time, much less the 3-4 days the product insert stated.
I sent two email messages to the company last week, with no response. I PM' d Dr. J. here, and got no response.
I also posted my issue on this thread ,in fact due to the IT glitches on the Board earlier, it posted twice.
I STILL have received no response.
Dr. J. continues to post on this thread, yet I have yet to hear from him or his company in response to a customer service issue.
What does one have to do to get a response from Cellese customer service regarding a product issue?
Has anyone else here had this problem?
The lack of response to my inquiries has been disappointing.
I order products from all over the world, and most suppliers respond to any customer service issue within 24 hours. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:52 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Had a conference with a colleague who studies differential secretomes and transcriptomes of stem cells. This gets down to gene expressions. Lots of new insight into the difference between adipose-derived (AD) and bone marrow-derived (BM)MSC's, in culture, and in vivo. AD-MSC's are far more tuned to inflammatory responses, and inflammatory chemokines, according to their transcriptome. They communicate extensively with mast (immune) cells in fat tissue, involving stimulatory cytokines. They may in fact be responsible for the inflammatory aspect of obesity, that can lead to diabetes, metabolic syndrome, atherosclerosis, etc. Turns out that conditioned medium from adipose stem cells can be "net inflammatory" vs anti-inflammatory (depends on how you treat them in culture). The secretome is geared toward high TGF-beta 1&2 whereas BM-MSC secrete more TGF-beta 3. So, while they are cheaper, and grow more easily in culture, AD-MSC's seem not to be the anti-inflammatory scar-free TGF-beta 3 rich healing powerhouses that BM-MSC's represent. There is also a whole chondrogenic vs. lipogenic orientation aspect to this that speaks to collagen production.
I'm going to pull all this information into a post in the near future. For all you science nerdy types. |
Yes, I think I saw a paper on this in the past few months where the media from adipocytes harvested from obese animals was then applied to lean adipocytes and the net result was an impairment in insulin pathways. That's why I asked earlier about the important distinction between BM- vs AD-MSCs, as I suspect the difference matters quite a bit! |
Another key difference that a colleague pointed out this week is that adipose stem cells are generally retrieved from 40-60 year old humans, the average age for receiving liposuction procedures (the cells are derived from the fat that is suctioned). In contrast the average age for bone marrow aspirate donors is 22 years (they are recruited from the athletic departments of universities). This means the starter cells in ADSC cultures are considerable older than those in BMSC cultures,and have already undergone a number of generations. Since stem cells themselves age (yes, ever get shorter telomeres) it may have something to to with the difference in cytokines expressed. In particular ones like IL-8 which is part of what differentiates fetal wound healing (scarless) from older adult healing (more fibrotic) as well as the TGF-beta family. |
Are you saying in the state of California that the average age for lipo is 40-60! who are you kidding, every teenager that has parents with money is not only getting lipo but nice ta ta's to go along with their new flat tummies and hips!
CookieD pointed out that the Re Luma's founders are from UCLA's acclaimed lab, the one your photo is of on Cellese, she actually asked if yall all knew each other, actually good question, do you?
I would think, most students there are 18-23? So why in the world would you infer you only use young people and all other companies that are not using "bone marrow" use old people.
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Do not know. Which UCLA lab? (I graduated UCLA).
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the Laboratory of Regenerative Bioengineering and Repair for the Department of Surgery at UCLA from 1998-2001. The laboratory goal was discovering and developing proprietary, cell-based therapeutics utilizing adult stem cells derived from adipose tissue.
There are other departments listed, just too difficult to copy paste, ect. you can go have a look see.
CookieD thought you might know each other. Small world, your both in Irving, CA. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:12 pm |
Just wanted to say that DrJ has now gotten on the problem!
Thank you for the speedy response. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:28 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
CookieD thought you might know each other. Small world, your both in Irving, CA. |
We're in Irvine, I believe they are in Mission Viejo, further south. Irvine is about 50 miles south of LA. Our local University of California campus is UC Irvine, not UCLA. Irvine is also home to a brand new world class nonprofit anti-aging institute. Nobody from that company is associated with either of these, as far as I can tell. But I could be wrong, you can ask them. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:35 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
CookieD thought you might know each other. Small world, your both in Irving, CA. |
We're in Irvine, I believe they are in Mission Viejo, further south. Irvine is about 50 miles south of LA. Our local University of California campus is UC Irvine, not UCLA. Irvine is also home to a brand new world class nonprofit anti-aging institute. Nobody from that company is associated with either of these, as far as I can tell. But I could be wrong, you can ask them. |
well I assume thats UCI, Irving then. This must be what Cookie was referring too, sry for my confusion, their board of advisors is all attached to UCI, Irving:
Ranjan Gupta, M.D., Professor and Chair of the Department of Orthopedic surgery at University California Irvine and Professor at the Department of Biomedical Engineering /Henry Samueli School of Engineering also at UCI. Specialized in microsurgery of hand and upper extremities. Research focused on tissue engineering and Schwann cell apoptosis.
Jonathan R. Pirnazar, M.D., Assistant Clinical Professor, UCI, Department of Ophthalmology. Served as Chief Resident and a fellow in Corneal and Refractive Surgery at UCI
Jonathan R. Pirnazar, M.D., Assistant Clinical Professor, UCI, Department of Ophthalmology. Served as Chief Resident and a fellow in Corneal and Refractive Surgery at UCI
ok sry its a bit long, but your paths probably do cross! |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:52 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| cm5597 wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Had a conference with a colleague who studies differential secretomes and transcriptomes of stem cells. This gets down to gene expressions. Lots of new insight into the difference between adipose-derived (AD) and bone marrow-derived (BM)MSC's, in culture, and in vivo. AD-MSC's are far more tuned to inflammatory responses, and inflammatory chemokines, according to their transcriptome. They communicate extensively with mast (immune) cells in fat tissue, involving stimulatory cytokines. They may in fact be responsible for the inflammatory aspect of obesity, that can lead to diabetes, metabolic syndrome, atherosclerosis, etc. Turns out that conditioned medium from adipose stem cells can be "net inflammatory" vs anti-inflammatory (depends on how you treat them in culture). The secretome is geared toward high TGF-beta 1&2 whereas BM-MSC secrete more TGF-beta 3. So, while they are cheaper, and grow more easily in culture, AD-MSC's seem not to be the anti-inflammatory scar-free TGF-beta 3 rich healing powerhouses that BM-MSC's represent. There is also a whole chondrogenic vs. lipogenic orientation aspect to this that speaks to collagen production.
I'm going to pull all this information into a post in the near future. For all you science nerdy types. |
Yes, I think I saw a paper on this in the past few months where the media from adipocytes harvested from obese animals was then applied to lean adipocytes and the net result was an impairment in insulin pathways. That's why I asked earlier about the important distinction between BM- vs AD-MSCs, as I suspect the difference matters quite a bit! |
Another key difference that a colleague pointed out this week is that adipose stem cells are generally retrieved from 40-60 year old humans, the average age for receiving liposuction procedures (the cells are derived from the fat that is suctioned). In contrast the average age for bone marrow aspirate donors is 22 years (they are recruited from the athletic departments of universities). This means the starter cells in ADSC cultures are considerable older than those in BMSC cultures,and have already undergone a number of generations. Since stem cells themselves age (yes, ever get shorter telomeres) it may have something to to with the difference in cytokines expressed. In particular ones like IL-8 which is part of what differentiates fetal wound healing (scarless) from older adult healing (more fibrotic) as well as the TGF-beta family. |
Are you saying in the state of California that the average age for lipo is 40-60! who are you kidding, every teenager that has parents with money is not only getting lipo but nice ta ta's to go along with their new flat tummies and hips!
CookieD pointed out that the Re Luma's founders are from UCLA's acclaimed lab, the one your photo is of on Cellese, she actually asked if yall all knew each other, actually good question, do you?
I would think, most students there are 18-23? So why in the world would you infer you only use young people and all other companies that are not using "bone marrow" use old people. |
Tiny this is not what I said at all. Below is part of the post. As you can see I said nothing about UCLA and I said someone on the Cellese thread said the building on the Cellese site was the Henry Samueil School of Engineering. Just wanted to clear this up because I know you are a stickler for details.
Both Cellese and Reluma are in Irvine CA and 3 out of the 6 people on Reluma scientific advisory board work at UC Irvine. I think this is where Dr. J works ( he's never said this but I live very close to here and from what he's said it's the only place that it could be) Also one of the guys on the board works at the Henry Samueli School of Engineering at UCI which Someone on the Cellese thread said was the building on Cellese website. The only reason I think this is interesting is because this is a fairly small world and I'm sure they all know each other. |
_________________
Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:53 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
CookieD thought you might know each other. Small world, your both in Irving, CA. |
We're in Irvine, I believe they are in Mission Viejo, further south. Irvine is about 50 miles south of LA. Our local University of California campus is UC Irvine, not UCLA. Irvine is also home to a brand new world class nonprofit anti-aging institute. Nobody from that company is associated with either of these, as far as I can tell. But I could be wrong, you can ask them. |
well I assume thats UCI, Irving then. This must be what Cookie was referring too, sry for my confusion, their board of advisors is all attached to UCI, Irving:
Ranjan Gupta, M.D., Professor and Chair of the Department of Orthopedic surgery at University California Irvine and Professor at the Department of Biomedical Engineering /Henry Samueli School of Engineering also at UCI. Specialized in microsurgery of hand and upper extremities. Research focused on tissue engineering and Schwann cell apoptosis.
Jonathan R. Pirnazar, M.D., Assistant Clinical Professor, UCI, Department of Ophthalmology. Served as Chief Resident and a fellow in Corneal and Refractive Surgery at UCI
Jonathan R. Pirnazar, M.D., Assistant Clinical Professor, UCI, Department of Ophthalmology. Served as Chief Resident and a fellow in Corneal and Refractive Surgery at UCI
ok sry its a bit long, but your paths probably do cross! |
Its a big institution, and we interact mainly with plastic surgeons, dermatologists, stem cell scientists, diabetes researchers. ReLuma's main interest is applications of stem cells as cellular therapy to other conditions (e.g. injecting into knees to repair damaged cartilage, hence the orthopods they relate to; maybe something with vision). We are focused almost entirely on the skin (with some diabetes overlap).
Also, boards of advisors often are only people loosely associated with a company. They are not the people who work for the company, they call them occasionally for advise. I have been on several boards that never called. UCI in fact has a policy prohibiting these relationships being publicized. Maybe different departments handle it differently. |
_________________
Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:02 pm |
| Well thank you for taking the time to look, I was hoping you all knew each other, that would be kinda cool! the small world theory my mother always told me about! |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:06 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Well thank you for taking the time to look, I was hoping you all knew each other, that would be kinda cool! the small world theory my mother always told me about! |
Maybe I'll call one of these guys next week. Invite them to coffee at "the mall" (on the med. school campus). |
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Physician - scientist - curmudgeon. Kind to animals and stem cells. Nonprofit muckraking site: www.barefacedtruth.com. Day job: www.anteage.com |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:07 pm |
| I tend to agree with Dr. J about the age that people get lipo. Most of my friends that got it are in the 40 to 60 bracket and none of my friends kids have gotten lipo. Now boobs jobs is another story. That's getting to be a graduation gift from high school and I'm not kidding. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:12 pm |
I'm interested in jom's and Darkmoon's conflicting results.
Jom, do you have any remaining milia on your face or elsewhere on your body? If so, would you be willing to repeat the experiment on half of the milia and leave the other half alone and let us know what happens? How many disappeared?
Darkmoon, do you have a picture of the callous, can you describe it, or is there is a similar picture online? How is your finger doing now? I suspect you won't be using AnteAGE again but if you do just to re-test things, let us know what happens (hey, I've been know to repeat experiments that I know will end in disaster  )
DrJ, assuming that both of their results may have been due to AnteAGE, how should we interpret this? I mean it's one thing to get a neutral result and quite another to potentially get strong negative effects. In the context of cytokines, here's what I'm thinking: aren't there a couple cytokines--I think someone told me that it was one of the interleukins, maybe IL6, IL8 or IL10...can't remember, not my field--that can act as either PRO-INFLAMMATORY or ANTI-INFLAMMATORY depending on the conditions? In other words, I'm wondering if it's not only the conditions applied to the stem cells (e.g. media) that matter but also the innate inflammatory state within someone's body.
As an analogy, I heard Dr. Paul Clayton say the reason some people have good reactions to vitamin A and some have bad has to do with whether there is enough vitamin C and E since they form a anti-oxidant chain and if A/C/E aren't in a reasonable balance, an excess of Vit A or E (but not of Vit. C) can cause more damage than good. So the idea is that the internal "status" or "conditions" matter.
So I'm wondering if you can comment here on whether the the environment of the cells within a person's body determines whether the reaction to the MSC cytokines is favorable and whether there are any papers on this (even something along the lines of good results at moderate doses but bad ones at high doses)....
So I guess this is a half-science, half-"let's apply to this to people's personal experiences with the product" post...  |
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34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:14 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Well thank you for taking the time to look, I was hoping you all knew each other, that would be kinda cool! the small world theory my mother always told me about! |
Maybe I'll call one of these guys next week. Invite them to coffee at "the mall" (on the med. school campus). |
you should, your all in the same game!
Maybe each of you can learn from the other! stranger things happen |
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| Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:00 pm |
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