Review: Cellese AnteAGE Serum & Accelerator
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free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:30 pm

rileygirl wrote:

DrJ wrote:

In terms of long term consequences of applying topicals, another great question. Again, I am going to put it into a framework of understand just how a particular substance works, and whether it is pro- or anti-inflammatory. Did you know that tretinoin is anti-inflammatory? (e.g. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16045694Z). This is part of what assures its long term safety. Now how about Trichloracetic acid (TCA) at 35%. Highly inflammatory (which is how it works) – would you think it wise to put that on your skin every day for years? Probably not.

Hope this answers your questions. As always, they are very relevant to the discussion.

Thank you, Dr J. I appreciate you taking the time to answer me. I did not know that Tretinoin was anti-inflammatory (could not get your link to work, unfortunately). I believe I understand more now. It is not necessarily the short term use of an inflammatory product, but more the daily use of one for a longer period of time that will do more harm than good in the long run, right?

Yes ma'am, that is correct. Inflammatory cytokines can have a positive role in the short term. Chronically is another matter. That's the normal healing and regeneration pattern we need to emulate.

Here is an abstract on tretinoin.

Clin Exp Dermatol. 2005 Sep;30(5):570-2.
Anti-inflammatory effects of tretinoin (all-trans-retinoic acid) 0.1% and adapalene 0.1%

In this study, the anti-inflammatory effects of tretinoin (all-trans-retinoic acid) 0.1% cream and adapalene 0.1% gel were compared in rats to determine whether there was a difference between these agents. Thirty-six rats of either sex were divided into six groups (two control groups, and an etodolac, indomethacin, tretinoin and adapalene group) of six animals each. Each group was given different drugs or chemicals. The inhibitory activities of the drugs were determined on carrageenan-induced rat-paw oedema. The inhibition rate (53.48%) in the tretinoin group was found to be higher than adapalene and controls (P < 0.05). Adapalene was found to have an inhibition rate of 10.28%, and when compared with the other groups, was found to have no statistically significant anti-inflammatory activity. We conclude that tretinoin has a higher anti-inflammatory activity than adapalene and thus should be preferred for the treatment of inflammatory lesions.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:32 pm

cm5597 wrote:

DrJ wrote:

Keliu wrote:

Well really I should have asked why haven't companies like L'Oreal or Olay (Procter & Gamble) invested in cytokine technology for their cosmetic lines. We all know they would jump on Retin-A if they were able. I wasn't referring to Big Pharma.

And recall it was L'Oreal who did the science connecting inflammatory cytokines and hair loss:

Skin Pharmacol. 1996;9(6):366-75.

Pro-inflammatory cytokine cascade in human plucked hair.

Mahé YF, Buan B, Billoni N, Loussouarn G, Michelet JF, Gautier B, Bernard BA.

L'Oréal Hair Biology Research Group, Centre de Recherche C. Zviak, Clichy, France.

Using reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction we showed that freshly plucked human anagen hair expressed both type 1 (80 kD) and type 2 (60 kD) interleukin (IL)-1 receptor mRNAs. The IL-1 receptor type 1 was functional since after in vitro stimulation of plucked hair with IL-1 alpha, we observed the induction of mRNA(s) for the inflammatory cytokines IL-1 beta, tumour necrosis factor alpha and IL-6 as well as for the chemokines monocyte chemotactic and activating factor and IL-8. In addition, the growth of dissected human anagen hairs in culture in vitro was significantly and dose-dependently inhibited by IL-1 alpha as a consequence of hair bulb degradation. These observations, together with those of other authors in IL-1 alpha transgenic mice evidence the inhibitory role of IL-1 on human hair growth. Therefore, in order to identify individuals with high inflammatory potential in their hair follicle environment, we designed a rapid and simple assay to detect variations in the level of IL-1 alpha production in the overnight supernatant of plucked hairs in culture. We observed that 32.7% of the specimens from the volunteers tested (n = 116) could be considered highly inflammatory in terms of IL-1 alpha production. Altogether, these results suggest that in alopecia androgenetica, hair growth might be negatively influenced by IL-1, directly produced by the outer root sheath keratinocytes. Consequently, identifying the "inflammatory alopecic individual' might be of clinical interest to discriminate among individuals for whom anti-IL-1 strategies might be of therapeutic relevance.

But this is different: this is connecting an inflammatory cytokine (IL1) with negative outcome (i.e. hair loss in this case). This is not the same as developing a positive therapy using anti-inflammatory cytokines to combat the issue. Two totally different things, imo.

That wasn't the point. The only point here was to illustrate that indeed big skin care companies are interested in cytokine research. That's all.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:56 pm

DrJ wrote:

That wasn't the point. The only point here was to illustrate that indeed big skin care companies are interested in cytokine research. That's all.

I am clarifying this for others (not you) who want evidence of big companies using cytokines therapeutically.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:10 pm

A few people asked me to comment on the use of cytokines from adipose tissue.

I brought this issue up before with DrJ before when I asked about the cytokine profiles from adipose-derived stem cells versus bone marrow ones. Particularly, after he cited an article on AD-MSCs and said something along the lines of using the same method for the production of MSC cytokines for Cellese.

DrJ responded with a couple of paragraph on the subject. The essence boiled down to "similar but different", which was satisfying from the perspective of writing for the general public (writing for comprehension), but unsatisfying to me personally from the perspective of scientific rigor. I didn't find the response to be nuanced or satisfying enough in the sense of differentiating the fact the cytokines in adipose tissue tend to be linked with inflammation, and the need for testing and screening, etc. But in fairness, I did not pursue the subject, nor raise my concerns again.

And yes, as it is well-known in obesity research that fat cells secrete a host of pro-inflammatory cytokines. But do AD-MSCs secrete the same cytokine cocktail as adipocytes (fat cells)? I don't know and I haven't searched for an answer yet.

So yes, I agree with caution, and I'm glad DrJ's tone has changed to one of more caution.

In general, I don't like overly enthusiastic or vague answers when it comes to new technology that has the potential for both benefit and harm. This is why I am moderately late adopter of certain technologies Smile

Just my personal opinion.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:18 pm

Keliu wrote:

but why hasn't cytokine technology (of any description) been embraced by such companies as Procter & Gamble or Johnson & Johnson for use in their OTC wound and burn products?

Firefox wrote:

Firefox 7275: I would question whether there is a big enough market for an over-the-counter burns cream based on cytokines, particularly given what we have learned about shelf life, price bracket and complexity of manufacture.

DrJ wrote:

We are one of the biotechnology companies spending large sums of money to find new ways to analyze and modulate the activities of cytokines and growth factors. There are others. There is no shortage of diseases to cure. But thanks for noticing, we are indeed on the leading edge.

Keliu wrote:

Whilst I realize that you are involved in the research, I was under the impression that you were buying the cytokines from another company - have I misunderstood?

DrJ wrote:

Certainly not. We have figured out to optimize patterns of cytokine exports from mesenchymal stem cells, which are the body's natural "drug store" for healing and regeneration. So we make em.

Keliu wrote:

I don't know whether I'm being that naive - the large corporations have enough money to jump on anything they like - and if stemcell serums are "flavour of the month", I'm sure they'll eventually jump on the bandwaggon. As for being "money making machines", that's why everyone is in business - I'm sure Celesse is not considering becoming a charitable institution.

Keliu,

I have wondered the same question.

One thing I will say is that there are small start-ups out there with the brilliance and technical know-how to be ahead of the game (the big players) in many industries. Two of my friends (absolutely brilliant and both awesome guys) fit into such a category. One was eventually bought out by Comcast for millions of dollars, and the other still holds a large stake in his company, but will likely be a millionaire or more in the next decade or so.

So it's totally possible for some little guy to beat out the big guys.

However, for what little I know about start-ups (meaning the little guys get ahead of the big guys), I just don't see obvious signs here of that expertise that would allow them to get ahead of the game. I mean, to be honest, DrJ was formerly a doctor (medical license revoked) and claims to have published on PubMed but there are no papers on PubMed under his name, whether on cytokine research or in other fields. Moreover, DrJ's partner (Dr. Taylor) is an anesthesiologist. So how would they acquire the necessary benchwork and lab skills to actually be experts in cytokine research? One clear thing that they might have in their advantage is that DrJ appears to be heavily connected, and with good connections, you can get all the expertise you need. So that could be your answer, Keliu.

And here's the final thing to think about: what about Cellese's data? We're been asking for data--any sort of data on Cellese. So far, I haven't seen mention of Cellese using animal models to test their concoctions. After all, with all this talk about Cellese having an anti-inflammatory cocktail of cytokines, there had better be proof that it's actually anti-inflammatory. So how is DrJ ensuring this (besides a vague answer)? So if they aren't doing this critical testing in-house, then the only options are:

(a) They are not doing any testing themselves (which I don't like), but are following someone else's protocol for the production of BM cytokines that was developed and is known to be safe

(b) They are getting their cytokines elsewhere.

(c) Or we should be concerned.

So I think it's natural to wonder about the puzzle because it's not clear to me how all the pieces fit together.

free skin care · Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:22 pm

DrJ wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

DrJ wrote:

In terms of long term consequences of applying topicals, another great question. Again, I am going to put it into a framework of understand just how a particular substance works, and whether it is pro- or anti-inflammatory. Did you know that tretinoin is anti-inflammatory? (e.g.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16045694Z). This is part of what assures its long term safety.

Thank you, Dr J. I appreciate you taking the time to answer me. I did not know that Tretinoin was anti-inflammatory (could not get your link to work, unfortunately). I believe I understand more now.

Here is an abstract on tretinoin.

Clin Exp Dermatol. 2005 Sep;30(5):570-2.
Anti-inflammatory effects of tretinoin (all-trans-retinoic acid) 0.1% and adapalene 0.1%

In this study, the anti-inflammatory effects of tretinoin (all-trans-retinoic acid) 0.1% cream and adapalene 0.1% gel were compared in rats to determine whether there was a difference between these agents. Thirty-six rats of either sex were divided into six groups (two control groups, and an etodolac, indomethacin, tretinoin and adapalene group) of six animals each. Each group was given different drugs or chemicals. The inhibitory activities of the drugs were determined on carrageenan-induced rat-paw oedema. The inhibition rate (53.48%) in the tretinoin group was found to be higher than adapalene and controls (P < 0.05). Adapalene was found to have an inhibition rate of 10.28%, and when compared with the other groups, was found to have no statistically significant anti-inflammatory activity. We conclude that tretinoin has a higher anti-inflammatory activity than adapalene and thus should be preferred for the treatment of inflammatory lesions.

Here's another article for you Riley:

Tretinoin: A Review of Its Anti-inflammatory Properties in the Treatment of Acne

J Clin Aesthet Dermatol. 2011 November; 4(11): 22–29.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3225141/?tool=pubmed

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:09 am

Another quite interesting hypotheses circulating in stem cell academia these days says that skin stem cells are actually maintained by a constant reseeding (whenever needed) from the bone marrow compartment. In other words the factory for skin stem cells is bone marrow...BM-MSC and skin MSC are the same, and they started in marrow.

Bone marrow-derived cells in normal post-natal skin development
Early literature demonstrating the contribution of bone-marrow derived cells to the epidermis formed the basis for investigating the role for BM-MSCs specifically in cutaneous repair. The development of transgenic mice strains expressing green fluorescent protein (GFP) has been essential in allowing investigators to understand the behavior of cells in vivo. When coupled with bone marrow transplantation or parabiosis models, GFP+ donor cells can be identified in wild-type mice using basic immunohistochemistry techniques to track cellular fate and differentiation. The ability for precursor cells to mobilize from the bone marrow niche to peripheral tissue remains controversial, however, several investigators have demonstrated the existence of circulating bone marrow precursor cell (Roufosse et al., 2004). Several early animal studies have reported that in normal skin homeostasis, bone marrow-derived cells may contribute to keratinocytes in the epidermis and sebaceous glands as well as dendritic cells within the dermis. The aggregate contribution to the epidermis and dermis by cells of bone marrow origin has been described as 11–14% of the total cell population (Fathke et al., 2004; Deng et al., 2005). Cell fusion between bone marrow-derived cells and mature resident cells has been observed in in vitro co-culture systems by several groups resulting in cells that adapt a “differentiated” phenotype but fail to undergo true differentiation (Terada et al., 2002; Spees et al., 2003). Several investigators have attempted to address this phenomenon and have demonstrated a lack of cell fusion in these models by using sex-mismatched donor cells and performing FISH analysis (Brittan et al., 2005; Wu et al., 2007; Sasaki et al., 2008). In a similar model, Badiavas et al. utilized a total bone marrow transplantation model and discovered bone marrow-derived CD34+ (a hematopoietic stem cell marker) keratinocytes in the hair bulge region which is thought to be the stem cell niche for epidermal stem cells (Badiavas et al., 2003; Trempus et al., 2003). This suggests that potentially circulating bone marrow-derived cells may serve to replenish the epithelial stem cell compartment throughout life. While still early, these studies highlight the potential role of bone marrow-derived stem cells in differentiating into various lineages to maintain skin homeostasis.

a corollary to this hypothesis is that ageing skin really is aging bone marrow. Since there are fewer and fewer BM-MSC's available to re-seed skin, regenerative ability gradually diminishes over the lifespan. So maybe the best "beauty within" approach might be something that helps maintain those natural stem cell populations. Since more is discovered every day about stem cell aging, this could bear fruit sooner rather than later.

Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:50 pm

I know I should probably read through all 1600 comments here before asking, but I'm on a 20 min. break. How do you tell how much serum (or accelerator) you are using? How long should a bottle (30 ml, 45 ml) last at the recommended pump rate? Sorry if its been asked before. I did try searching but cannot quite master that (not as simple minded as Google). -Nan

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:59 pm

NanSam wrote:

I know I should probably read through all 1600 comments here before asking, but I'm on a 20 min. break. How do you tell how much serum (or accelerator) you are using? How long should a bottle (30 ml, 45 ml) last at the recommended pump rate? Sorry if its been asked before. I did try searching but cannot quite master that (not as simple minded as Google). -Nan

Hi NanSam, You can tell how much product you have left in the bottle by holding up to the light. The darken area is the serum. There will be a lite area both at the top and the bottom of the bottle. I hope this makes senses. The serum itself will last between 6 to 12 weeks with 6 to 9 I think being the average. I think my first bottle lasted 7 1/2 weeks but would have to check.

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:29 pm

I realize this depth of science is not everyone's cup of tea, but i wanted to offer it up just in case there are any who really want want to get to the bottom of the whole inflammation - aging - scarring - wrinkle collection of overlapping circles.

Fibrosis and scarring are intimately related. What we tend to call scarring (at least at a tissue histology level) is fibrosis in organs like the lung.

This just published paper focuses on TLR's which are closely related to inflammatory cytokines, and immune activation leading to fibrosis (immune activation being a concomitant of inflammation, by definition).

The full text is available (link below).

Open Rheumatol J. 2012;6:72-79. Epub 2012 Jun 15.

New Insights into the Mechanisms of Innate Immune Receptor Signalling in Fibrosis
.
Lafyatis R, Farina A.

Recent advances in our understanding of innate immunity and inflammation have direct bearing on how we understand autoimmunity, and fibrosis, and how innate immune sensors might stimulate both of these key features of several fibrotic diseases. Toll-like receptors (TLRs) are the major receptors for recognizing pathogen associated molecular patterns present on bacterial cell walls, such as LPS, and nucleic acids (RNA and DNA). Several intracellular pathways mediate TLR effects and initiate various pro-inflammatory programs. [Mechanisms for control of inflammation, matrix remodeling, and ultimately fibrosis are also activated[/b]. Transforming growth factor-beta (TGF-β), Interleukin-1 (IL-1), interleukin-4 (IL-4), interleukin-6 (IL-6), interleukin-13 (IL-13), and interferon (IFNs) appear particularly important in regulating pro-fibrotic aspects of innate immune activation. These mechanisms appear important in fibrotic disease affecting multiple organ-systems, including lung, liver, kidney, and skin. These observations provide new paradigms for understanding the relationship between immunity/inflammation and fibrosis, however, the precise ligand and mechanism linking innate immune sensor(s) to fibrosis remain uncertain in most illnesses.

http://benthamscience.com/open/torj/articles/V006/SI0070TORJ/72TORJ.pdf

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:52 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

I hope in 3 months time everybody is falling over themselves to post wonderous before and after pictures, be ready to order their 2nd or 3rd batch and sing it's praises.... Very Happy

I'll be happy to apologize for my many doubts at that time.

Well here I am at the 3 month mark... Has anybody transformed their skin yet? Have you realized the miracles of "stem cell conditioned media" in a topically applied product. Any before & after pictures to share?

In a nutshell, has the $300. investment (every 6 to 8 weeks) given you better results, than say a good topical anti-oxidant regime?

So other than nice moisturizing properties, has anybody noticed really significant or tangible results after 12 weeks? (Excluding the milia and dragons disappearing life long scar.)

So what say you all? Other than some "stem cell" literature (that has absolutely nothing to do with a cosmetic product containing none of that), this thread is quite dead.

Perhaps *DrJ* could link us to some of his published works while we wait for reviews... Or tell us why he insinuated "applying for a patent", which isn't really true (as of July 12th, 2012)... Ya'll can keep track here if you care to: http://www.specialchem4cosmetics.com/patents-applications/search.aspx

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:25 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

I hope in 3 months time everybody is falling over themselves to post wonderous before and after pictures, be ready to order their 2nd or 3rd batch and sing it's praises.... Very Happy

I'll be happy to apologize for my many doubts at that time.

Well here I am at the 3 month mark... Has anybody transformed their skin yet? Have you realized the miracles of "stem cell conditioned media" in a topically applied product. Any before & after pictures to share?

In a nutshell, has the $300. investment (every 6 to 8 weeks) given you better results, than say a good topical anti-oxidant regime?

So other than nice moisturizing properties, has anybody noticed really significant or tangible results after 12 weeks? (Excluding the milia and dragons disappearing life long

I'm not really sure what your end game is but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't believe anyone who was happy with the progress they have seen form this product so why should I bother. I am not trying to be mean but it just seems like you are so down on this product it wouldn't matter what anyone said.

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:04 pm

CookieD wrote:

I'm not really sure what your end game is but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't believe anyone who was happy with the progress they have seen form this product so why should I bother.

I assure you, I have "no end game"... (Don't believe everything you read/hear, without knowing my views also!)

You assume too much...And how you can presume to know what I believe (or not), without knowing me, is totally ridiculous. I would be more than happy to know that my forum friends who shelled out big bucks for AnteAGE were getting their money's worth.. Sadly, that is not the case.

If nothing else, you should "bother" to share your review, for all the other members who are in the same boat as you...And share with those who just want to know if the product is worth the monetary investment for the long haul.

I wish you luck with the products, and hope they live up to all your expectations.

Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:13 pm

CookieD wrote:

NanSam wrote:

I know I should probably read through all 1600 comments here before asking, but I'm on a 20 min. break. How do you tell how much serum (or accelerator) you are using? How long should a bottle (30 ml, 45 ml) last at the recommended pump rate? Sorry if its been asked before. I did try searching but cannot quite master that (not as simple minded as Google). -Nan

Hi NanSam, You can tell how much product you have left in the bottle by holding up to the light. The darken area is the serum. There will be a lite area both at the top and the bottom of the bottle. I hope this makes senses. The serum itself will last between 6 to 12 weeks with 6 to 9 I think being the average. I think my first bottle lasted 7 1/2 weeks but would have to check.

Thanks, CookieD. I never thought of that.

I've never been part of a forum before, but I must say I can't believe the negativity and lack of respect on the part of some people here. Ignorant, and rude. The whole reason for provisional patents is to keep them unpublished for a year, so you can add to them without worry of being trumped. They do that here at my company all the time. Publication cycles are long, and companies time these things to their advantage, not to the whims of others. Anyway, that's my 2c worth, as someone who knows about stem cell science in the private sector.

While I am a brand new AnteAGE customer, I learned about it from two women here where I work who have been using for several months, and rave about it. Maybe I can get them to leave comments. -Nan

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:25 pm

NanSam wrote:

While I am a brand new AnteAGE customer, I learned about it from two women here where I work who have been using for several months, and rave about it. Maybe I can get them to leave comments. -Nan

Cookie and NanSam, I would love to hear your and your colleagues reviews. Nansam, what are the ages of the women using it at your work place, and have you, yourself, noticed an improvement in their skin?

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:47 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

CookieD wrote:

I'm not really sure what your end game is but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't believe anyone who was happy with the progress they have seen form this product so why should I bother.

I assure you, I have "no end game"... (Don't believe everything you read/hear, without knowing my views also!)

You assume too much...And how you can presume to know what I believe (or not), without knowing me, is totally ridiculous. I would be more than happy to know that my forum friends who shelled out big bucks for AnteAGE were getting their money's worth.. Sadly, that is not the case.

If nothing else, you should "bother" to share your review, for all the other members who are in the same boat as you...And share with those who just want to know if the product is worth the monetary investment for the long haul.

I wish you luck with the products, and hope they live up to all your expectations.

Kassy I don't do the PM thing and talk behind people's back, I really have no time or interest in that. I just read what's on this thread and it seems to ME that you have a very negative opinion about a product you have never used. If you don't that's fine(and I am sorry that I assumed that)but if I only have the comments on this thread to go by(which is all I have) it just seems like you don't like this product. I'm glad that you like the things you do and I like RA, Vit C and stuff like that also, but I have started to do the ReAura and I can't use any of those thing so AA fits into my program for now and I do like the results that I have gotten. Sorry if I have upset you. This was not my intention.

I said earlier somewhere in this post that I would not review this product anymore because I have started using other gadgets and there is no way that I can tell what product/gadget is doing what. I still think this is the right thing for me to do. I know this product has not worked out for everyone who has tried it. Not even RA and Vit c work for everyone and they have years of research behind them. I realize this is an expensive product and I have mentioned that previously. People need to decide for themselves whether it is something they what to take a chance on or wait and see what the longer term reviews are.

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:48 pm

NanSam wrote:

I've never been part of a forum before, but I must say I can't believe the negativity and lack of respect on the part of some people here. Ignorant, and rude.

Perhaps when you've been a forum member for longer than "9 days" you'll have a change of heart...

Welcome to the forum... Calling folks "ignorant + rude" might not garner too many *friends* though... Shock

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:02 pm

Quote:

The whole reason for provisional patents is to keep them unpublished for a year, so you can add to them without worry of being trumped. They do that here at my company all the time. Publication cycles are long, and companies time these things to their advantage, not to the whims of others. Anyway, that's my 2c worth, as someone who knows about stem cell science in the private sector.

Cellese was founded in 2009. The stuff was put on the market in 2012. A year long provisional patent may be reasonable, but how about a 3 year long pending patent?
And of course it's no threat to any patent to publish the results of that secret potion, with good evidence and proof of safety.
But even providing customers with an adequate ingredient list has proven to be a problem. As it is, the ingredient list is still not correct - stating 'cytokines' as second ingredient. Not only no specification, but also totally crazy since most cytokines are in vivo measured in nanograms/ml serum, and pure cytokines as second ingredient would make a huge - and dangerous - overkill.
So basically the problem with Cellese is, that the spin around it promises a lot, but the hard and fast info - what is in it, and has it been tested, and what were the results - is lacking. Everyone questioning this is only doing what dr J. has 'educated' us to do with the competition. And there apparently his own product doesn't live up to his own standards.

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:43 pm

Lotusesther wrote:

but also totally crazy since most cytokines are in vivo measured in nanograms/ml serum, and pure cytokines as second ingredient would make a huge - and dangerous - overkill. .

So with Reluma having human adipose derived stem cell conditioned media as its first ingredient is dangerous and overkill? I thought people liked it.

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:14 pm

I think that Kassy is being quite reasonable in asking for results for this product. I wouldn't like to have her in court against me, though. When looking at the daily posts here, I always scroll down to see if Kassy is present. I am never disappointed reading her gems. She's big on results, as we all ought to be.

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:45 pm

I wish I could quantify my results but I can't. What I can say is I no longer run screaming into the night when I glimpse into a store mirror. I look softer, fuller, better texture. I didn't have many lines to start with though. That said, at 56 I was looking for a less tired look. That, I have achieved. I just started my second bottle about a week ago. I didn't want to post anything till I finished the secong bottle. It usually takes me that long to see results. Also, I can't use the accelerator during the day. With the hot summer, I find I'm getting too oily. I use it at night. Something to keep in mind or anyone with oily skin.

free skin care · Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:18 pm

majorb wrote:

Elvisshops wrote:

So how is everyone doing with the product? I think my skin looks better though I can't pinpoint what about is better. I think I said that before.

I will probably order my second bottle this weekend.

My skin is certainly looking better, Elvisshops. It's clearer and brighter-looking than it has been in quite some time. My second duo of products arrived yesterday.

I do seem to be using up the serum rather quickly, though!

Glad you're getting good results. I still have some of the lotion left, but I'm out of serum. It does go more quickly. I don't like lotions or creams on my face so I am using it on my hands and neck. I can't tell any difference there, but I'm not consistent with my lotion application. Not sure if I will reorder the lotion.

free skin care · Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:47 am

Kassy_A wrote:

Well here I am at the 3 month mark... Has anybody transformed their skin yet? Have you realized the miracles of "stem cell conditioned media" in a topically applied product. Any before & after pictures to share?

In a nutshell, has the $300. investment (every 6 to 8 weeks) given you better results, than say a good topical anti-oxidant regime?

So other than nice moisturizing properties, has anybody noticed really significant or tangible results after 12 weeks? (Excluding the milia and dragons disappearing life long scar.)

So what say you all? Other than some "stem cell" literature (that has absolutely nothing to do with a cosmetic product containing none of that), this thread is quite dead.

I'm experiencing good results so far, Kassy - although I'd rather wait until my own 3 month mark before counting my chickens.

I can't say that I've experienced a miracle exactly Laughing

, but can happily concur with marina that looking in the mirror is not quite so much of an ordeal lately.

Unfortunately, I don't have any before and after pics and am very camera shy. However, I can say with all certainty that my skin is clearer than it has been in ages. No blemishes, just a couple of rapidly fading marks from my last TOTM. Skin tone is looking much more even, including the redness I always tend to get in my cheeks. In fact, I'd almost be happy to go out without wearing foundation (something I never usually dare to do).

It's possible that my skin may be plumping up a bit - although I'd want to wait a while longer to make sure that this result isn't just a flash in the pan.

Fine lines look pretty much the same, I think, but no worse. It would be great to see some improvement in those - particularly under my eyes. Mind you, nothing at all has had a truly lasting effect on those as yet so I won't hold my breath on that one.

free skin care · Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:10 am

Hi Majorb,

I wanted to mention the skin plumping but wanted to hold off. I thought it was my imagination. At my age, this isnt enough as an eye cream though. Someone younger could definitely use just AA. My favourite eye cream so far (since you asked Laughing

) is the new YBF correct. I can say this without reservation even though I've only been using it for a week. YBF makes a great lip plumper too that (surprise) actually works. Next tip (I'm on a roll) grab some Nars orgasm illuminator and apply it on top of your cheekbones. Instant glow, swear it takes years off, without glitter.

free skin care · Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:38 am

cm5597 wrote:

...... for what little I know about start-ups (meaning the little guys get ahead of the big guys), I just don't see obvious signs here of that expertise that would allow them to get ahead of the game. I mean, to be honest, DrJ was formerly a doctor (medical license revoked) and claims to have published on PubMed but there are no papers on PubMed under his name, whether on cytokine research or in other fields. Moreover, DrJ's partner (Dr. Taylor) is an anesthesiologist. So how would they acquire the necessary benchwork and lab skills to actually be experts in cytokine research? One clear thing that they might have in their advantage is that DrJ appears to be heavily connected, and with good connections, you can get all the expertise you need. So that could be your answer, Keliu.

And here's the final thing to think about: what about Cellese's data? We're been asking for data--any sort of data on Cellese. So far, I haven't seen mention of Cellese using animal models to test their concoctions. After all, with all this talk about Cellese having an anti-inflammatory cocktail of cytokines, there had better be proof that it's actually anti-inflammatory. So how is DrJ ensuring this (besides a vague answer)? So if they aren't doing this critical testing in-house, then the only options are:

(a) They are not doing any testing themselves (which I don't like), but are following someone else's protocol for the production of BM cytokines that was developed and is known to be safe

(b) They are getting their cytokines elsewhere.

(c) Or we should be concerned.

So I think it's natural to wonder about the puzzle because it's not clear to me how all the pieces fit together.

This is the information on the Celesse website as to where the stemcells are coming from:

http://anteage.com/research-facilities-partnerships/

I'm still not clear whether DrJ and his partner are doing this research themselves, whether it is their staff, or whether they are purchasing the cytokines from this institution. It only opened in June 2010. I'm sure DrJ will clarify this for us.

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