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Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:26 pm  |
| Frodo wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
Nice to see you back Beth... Hope all your babies are A-okay...  xox |
Thank you Kassy! The babies are doing great...I recently lost one older one to diabetes, but the other 7 are still keeping me on my toes.  |
I got a kick out of this Hi and thanks. For the new members I can only imagine......
Glad your fur babies are doing well and sorry to hear about the one you lost. I had to let Frodo go due to diabetes as well. |
I am so sorry. 
I still can't even talk (or think) about it without getting all teary, and I am sure you can relate.
For the newer members, we are talking about furkids. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:45 pm |
Bethany...you have fur babies? Sorry about the one you lost. I have one similarly, blind and deaf yorkie found in the street a year ago. Have 23 furmuffins.
Sorry Jom, Speaking of yorkies. The ladies here are lovely http://theeverythingbag.webs.com/The bags are super. And supports a good cause.
Keliu,
| Quote: |
(1)I feel as if we've reached a point where if it doesn't contain cytokines or
(2)if it's not DIYed by Dragon, then it's useless -
(3)along with the science behind it! |
(3)That is incorrect. Dr. Yarosh research was not in question, the link to his work, via the EL ingredients list that was up there...that is the question. None of the components that his work is based on shows up in that list. You have, Chronolux by Vinciene, that makes a whack of funny little peptides with amazing claims and Zero for science to back it up.
(2)You are right, for myself, if it isn't DIY'd by yours truly, which has multiple studies for each of the ingredients and then some...it's probably not all that useful. My bias. I am rather particular.
(1) That's his bias, and he's not incorrect. Nor does he state that it is the singular component necessary to effect physiological response/ change/ improvement.
i.e.
* Wonder bunk at 3%* Lengthens telomeres, if not, caps them, we're not sure but manufacturers pdf said so.
In active ingredients:
Agua, Inexpensive filler Triglyceride, Funny Oil, Happy Oil, Longlife Seed Oil, Wrinkle free Oil, Smoothness Oil, Pearl Oil, Shea Butter, Aloe Leaf Juice, Emulsifying wax NF, Hyaluronic acid, Vegetable Glycerine, Gelatin, Vitamin E, Doodie Extract, Photon Flower fluff, White tea extract spookums, Money Extract, False Promise Gum, Glyceryl dancesnekkid, Lactic acid, Sour grape Seed Extract, Phenoxyethanol (a natural preservative).
Give that one a pass in this life time.
Rileygirl,
| Quote: |
| Dragon, I am curious how you know the actives are well below sub clinical levels? I mean what gives that away? |
The Cosmetic corner pdf gives a nice run down. http://www.chemistscorner.com/downloads/duplicatecosmetics.pdf
Glycerin 1%, and everything behind that is less. The extracts, unless they have been standardized for the active components , mean nothing.
Back to AnteAge. Take a look at the ingredients, and where they are. The serum, is packed with B3 and MSC and antiglycation actives. The accelerator, is packed with the antioxidant kitchen sink. Components proven to have physiological effect in the skin and when topically applied. The only wonderbunk are the MSC's and they aren't bunk. We only don't have the topical studies to confirm it. Plenty of others exist, that do confirm. These are endogenous molecules, your body produces same when stimulated/ wounded.
People have the right to choose the pretty pdf's of warped science and bogus claims or not. Not my problem, theirs. GGA etc, many. So many factoids parading as science.
Example:
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2006 May;1067:337-42.
Epidermal and dermal characteristics in skin equivalent after systemic and topical application of skin care ingredients.
Vicanova J, Bouez C, Lacroix S, Lindmark L, Damour O.
Source
DermData sro, Czech Republic. javi@ferrosan.com
Abstract
Effects of active ingredients from topical and systemic skincare products on structure and organization of epidermis, dermal-epidermal junction (DEJ), and dermis were examined using an in vitro reconstructed skin equivalent (SE). Imedeen Time Perfection (ITP) ingredients (a mixture of BioMarine Complex, grape seed extract, tomato extract, vitamin C) were supplemented systemically into culture medium. Kinetin, an active ingredient from Imedeen Expression Line Control Serum, was applied topically. Both treatments were tested separately or combined. In epidermis, all treatments stimulated keratinocyte proliferation, showing a significant increase of Ki67-positive keratinocytes (P < 0.05). Kinetin showed a twofold increase of Ki67-positive cells, ITP resulted in a fivefold, and ITP+kinetin showed a nine-fold increase. Differentiation of keratinocytes was influenced only by kinetin since filaggrin was found only in kinetin and kinetin+ITP samples. At the DEJ, laminin 5 was slightly increased by all treatments. In dermis, only ITP increased the amount of collagen type I. Both kinetin and ITP stimulated formation of fibrillin-1 and elastin deposition. The effect of kinetin was seen in upper dermis. It stimulated not only the amount of deposited fibrillin-1 and elastin fibers but also their organization perpendicularly to the DEJ. ITP stimulated formation of fibrillin-1 in deeper dermis. In summary, the combination of topical treatment with kinetin and systemic treatment with ITP had complementary beneficial effects in the formation and development of epidermis and dermis.
Factoid or Fact? That's Fact. Each of those components are backed up by multiple studies as well. Years of research.
Day #7. Good. Skin is calm and clear. Balanced. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:58 pm |
| DragoN wrote: |
| Bethany...you have fur babies? Sorry about the one you lost. I have one similarly, blind and deaf yorkie found in the street a year ago. Have 23 furmuffins. |
DragoN, I have 5 Exotics (short haired Persians), 1 Himilayan, and 1 Persian (plus I volunteer at a shelter and am currently supporting 6 rescue kittens).
I just posted pics of my 2 youngest furkids in the Lounge.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=6458209#6458209
And good for you for taking in that Yorkie...2 of mine are rescues, as well as the one I recently lost.
ETA: Jom, I posted the link above so that we can continue talking pets over on the lounge and get back to skin here. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:00 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
I believe it was jom who likes to divide the world of actives into "acidic" and "soothing". In this vein, I have an anecdote to share about AnteAge. Just heard about this today.
An AnteAGE user had a deep acid (phenol + TCA) peel procedure (done in dermatologist office) but didn't peel. But she liked the results (after a week). The doctor was baffled. A peel-less peel? Will look further. |
In her case that might not have been the desired result, but very interesting that it could negate the peel in that manner. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:05 pm |
| DragoN wrote: |
* Wonder bunk at 3%* Lengthens telomeres, if not, caps them, we're not sure but manufacturers pdf said so.
In active ingredients:
Agua, Inexpensive filler Triglyceride, Funny Oil, Happy Oil, Longlife Seed Oil, Wrinkle free Oil, Smoothness Oil, Pearl Oil, Shea Butter, Aloe Leaf Juice, Emulsifying wax NF, Hyaluronic acid, Vegetable Glycerine, Gelatin, Vitamin E, Doodie Extract, Photon Flower fluff, White tea extract spookums, Money Extract, False Promise Gum, Glyceryl dancesnekkid, Lactic acid, Sour grape Seed Extract, Phenoxyethanol (a natural preservative).
Give that one a pass in this life time. |
I must say that I quite enjoyed this, lol. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:06 pm |
Thank you! |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:18 pm |
Hi DragoN, I have a few questions for clarification purposes (sorry, I can be a little slow sometimes) which I've underlined.
| DragoN wrote: |
Bethany...you have fur babies? Sorry about the one you lost. I have one similarly, blind and deaf yorkie found in the street a year ago. Have 23 furmuffins.
Are you saying you have 23 cats?!
Sorry Jom, Speaking of yorkies. The ladies here are lovely http://theeverythingbag.webs.com/The bags are super. And supports a good cause.
Keliu,
| Quote: |
(1)I feel as if we've reached a point where if it doesn't contain cytokines or
(2)if it's not DIYed by Dragon, then it's useless -
(3)along with the science behind it! |
(3)That is incorrect. Dr. Yarosh research was not in question, the link to his work, via the EL ingredients list that was up there...that is the question. None of the components that his work is based on shows up in that list. You have, Chronolux by Vinciene, that makes a whack of funny little peptides with amazing claims and Zero for science to back it up.
(2)You are right, for myself, if it isn't DIY'd by yours truly, which has multiple studies for each of the ingredients and then some...it's probably not all that useful. My bias. I am rather particular.
(1) That's his bias, and he's not incorrect. Nor does he state that it is the singular component necessary to effect physiological response/ change/ improvement.
What does the following comment mean? Is this an actual product?
i.e.
* Wonder bunk at 3%* Lengthens telomeres, if not, caps them, we're not sure but manufacturers pdf said so.
In active ingredients:
Agua, Inexpensive filler Triglyceride, Funny Oil, Happy Oil, Longlife Seed Oil, Wrinkle free Oil, Smoothness Oil, Pearl Oil, Shea Butter, Aloe Leaf Juice, Emulsifying wax NF, Hyaluronic acid, Vegetable Glycerine, Gelatin, Vitamin E, Doodie Extract, Photon Flower fluff, White tea extract spookums, Money Extract, False Promise Gum, Glyceryl dancesnekkid, Lactic acid, Sour grape Seed Extract, Phenoxyethanol (a natural preservative).
Give that one a pass in this life time.
Rileygirl,
| Quote: |
| Dragon, I am curious how you know the actives are well below sub clinical levels? I mean what gives that away? |
The Cosmetic corner pdf gives a nice run down. http://www.chemistscorner.com/downloads/duplicatecosmetics.pdf
Glycerin 1%, and everything behind that is less. The extracts, unless they have been standardized for the active components , mean nothing.
Thanks for the above info.!
Back to AnteAge. Take a look at the ingredients, and where they are. The serum, is packed with B3 and MSC and antiglycation actives. The accelerator, is packed with the antioxidant kitchen sink. Components proven to have physiological effect in the skin and when topically applied. The only wonderbunk are the MSC's and they aren't bunk. We only don't have the topical studies to confirm it. Plenty of others exist, that do confirm. These are endogenous molecules, your body produces same when stimulated/ wounded.
People have the right to choose the pretty pdf's of warped science and bogus claims or not. Not my problem, theirs. GGA etc, many. So many factoids parading as science.
Is the following an example of a factoid parading as science or what is it an axample of?You say example here after saying factoid then at the end you say it is good science, which is it?
Example:
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2006 May;1067:337-42.
Epidermal and dermal characteristics in skin equivalent after systemic and topical application of skin care ingredients.
Vicanova J, Bouez C, Lacroix S, Lindmark L, Damour O.
Source
DermData sro, Czech Republic. javi@ferrosan.com
Abstract
Effects of active ingredients from topical and systemic skincare products on structure and organization of epidermis, dermal-epidermal junction (DEJ), and dermis were examined using an in vitro reconstructed skin equivalent (SE). Imedeen Time Perfection (ITP) ingredients (a mixture of BioMarine Complex, grape seed extract, tomato extract, vitamin C) were supplemented systemically into culture medium. Kinetin, an active ingredient from Imedeen Expression Line Control Serum, was applied topically. Both treatments were tested separately or combined. In epidermis, all treatments stimulated keratinocyte proliferation, showing a significant increase of Ki67-positive keratinocytes (P < 0.05). Kinetin showed a twofold increase of Ki67-positive cells, ITP resulted in a fivefold, and ITP+kinetin showed a nine-fold increase. Differentiation of keratinocytes was influenced only by kinetin since filaggrin was found only in kinetin and kinetin+ITP samples. At the DEJ, laminin 5 was slightly increased by all treatments. In dermis, only ITP increased the amount of collagen type I. Both kinetin and ITP stimulated formation of fibrillin-1 and elastin deposition. The effect of kinetin was seen in upper dermis. It stimulated not only the amount of deposited fibrillin-1 and elastin fibers but also their organization perpendicularly to the DEJ. ITP stimulated formation of fibrillin-1 in deeper dermis. In summary, the combination of topical treatment with kinetin and systemic treatment with ITP had complementary beneficial effects in the formation and development of epidermis and dermis.
Factoid or Fact? That's Fact. Each of those components are backed up by multiple studies as well. Years of research.
Day #7. Good. Skin is calm and clear. Balanced. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:40 pm |
| Quote: |
| Are you saying you have 23 cats?! |
Dogs.
| Quote: |
| DragoN, I have 5 Exotics (short haired Persians), 1 Himilayan, and 1 Persian (plus I volunteer at a shelter and am currently supporting 6 rescue kittens). |
Animal lovers unite. Make the world a better place. Shouldn't have to be a hell hole just because you have 4 legs. Mine are all rescues. I am a marshmallow for the critters, but will rip a human head off without a second thought for harming one of the innocents. And I loathe animal testing.
Jom,
| Quote: |
| Thanks for the above info.! |
No worries. Not always the case though. Watch the Hyaluronic content. That's another give away.
| Quote: |
| What does the following comment mean? Is this an actual product? |
Mmmhmmm...for the most part. Without the tongue in cheek..yes. Reason why I DIY to better effect.
| Quote: |
| Is the following an example of a factoid parading as science or what is it an axample of?You say example here after saying factoid then at the end you say it is good science, which is it? |
Decent science. Each active in there has multiple studies to back up its use. That particular product is not cheap to purchase, but really cheap to DIY and fine tune it. I load my bases and make sure the research supports the use thereof.
Claims of *WOW* it's AWESOME, I LOVE IT...make me gag. Show me the data and shut up. Pardons.
I do like AnteAge, and I am quite surprised that I do. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:48 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
Rileygirl,
| Quote: |
| Dragon, I am curious how you know the actives are well below sub clinical levels? I mean what gives that away? |
The Cosmetic corner pdf gives a nice run down. http://www.chemistscorner.com/downloads/duplicatecosmetics.pdf
Glycerin 1%, and everything behind that is less. The extracts, unless they have been standardized for the active components , mean nothing.
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Thank you, Dragon. I will definitely save that link. Very helpful. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:07 pm |
| Quote: |
DragoN, I am a marshmallow for the critters, but will rip a human head off without a second thought for harming one of the innocents. And I loathe animal testing.
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We only test on lesser species (humans). We only borrow stem cells from homo sapiens. We are very critter friendly. The only meat I eat is road kill (Is my head still on?)
DragoN ...make sure you visit the "fantastic actives" thread. I took liberties <gulp>  |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:16 pm |
I got my samples today! Thank you Cellese & USPS! Generous too I might add.
Applied the serum under my right eye (where I have small wrinkle I acquired in Hawaii in 1977 - well at least Star Wars was fun !  ) Nice & smooth with absolutely no hint of irritation!
Applied the accelerator above upper lip (separately)as it contains Bisabolol since some can be sensitive to this & I too have been worried that I may be. So far so good - not even the hint of irritation/inflammation.
They have both been on for about 4hrs so far & I often react within a few minutes so so far so good!
Will report back over next few days regarding my opinion - mostly regarding sensitivity which is why I wanted to sample in the first place!
Thanks to all regarding feedback & to Dr J for additional product info! |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:41 pm |
Ok. Trying to figure out the information from Kassy and Dragon in reading a label. The Retinol is in this product at 0.2%. That would mean everything underneath is even less than that? Or are we just in the range of anything below 1% can be listed in any order?
Also, the polysorbate 20 has a recommended usage of 1-20%. So, what does this mean for the ingredients below that ingredient?
Accelerator
Ingredients: Mesenchymal Stem Cell
Cytokines, Water (Aqua), Glycerin
(Plant Derived), C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate,
PPG-3 Benzyl Myristate, Carthamus
Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Alcohol,
Cetearyl Alcohol (Plant Derived),
Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E
Acetate), Polysorbate-20 (Plant
Derived), Cetearyl Glucoside,
Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (Vitamin C
Ester), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba)
Seed Oil, Limnanthes Alba
(Meadowfoam) Seed Oil, Essential Oils,
Dimethyl Isosorbide, Butylene Glycol,
Polysorbate-60 (Plant Derived),
Glyceryl Stearate (Plant Derived),
Lecithin, Hydroxyethyl
Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyl Dimethyl
Taurate Copolymer, Soybean
Glycerides, Arachidyl Alcohol, Soy
Isoflavones, Phenoxyethanol
(Preservative), Helianthus Annuus
(Hybrid Sunflower) Oil, Butyrospermum
Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Bisabolol,
Arbutin, Caprylyl Glycol (Naturally
Derived Preservative), Behenyl Alcohol,
Lonicera Japonica (Honeysuckle)
Extract (Natural Preservative),
Foeniculum Vulgare (Fennel) Fruit
Extract, Camellia Oleifera (ORGANIC)
Black Tea, Algae (Seaweed) Extract,
Xanthan Gum (Natural Thickener),
Saccharum Officinarum (Sugar Cane),
Chlorphenesin, Squalane (Plant
Derived), Retinol (Vitamin A),
Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10),
Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B5), Allantoin
(Comfrey Root Derived), Citrus Medica
Limonum (Lemon) Fruit Extract, Citrus
Aurantium Dulcis (Sweet Neroli
Orange) Fruit, Tetrasodium EDTA,
Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice,
Sodium Hyaluronate, Camellia Sinensis
(Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Arachidyl
Glucoside, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed
Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark
Extract, Vaccinium Myrtillus (Bilberry)
Extract, Phyllanthus Emblica (Amla)
Extract, Thioctic Acid (a-Lipoic Acid),
Sodium Hydroxide (pH Modifier) |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:07 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
Ok. Trying to figure out the information from Kassy and Dragon in reading a label. The Retinol is in this product at 0.2%. That would mean everything underneath is even less than that? Or are we just in the range of anything below 1% can be listed in any order?
Also, the polysorbate 20 has a recommended usage of 1-20%. So, what does this mean for the ingredients below that ingredient?
Accelerator
Ingredients: Mesenchymal Stem Cell
Cytokines, Water (Aqua), Glycerin
(Plant Derived), C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate,
PPG-3 Benzyl Myristate, Carthamus
Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Alcohol,
Cetearyl Alcohol (Plant Derived),
Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E
Acetate), Polysorbate-20 (Plant
Derived), Cetearyl Glucoside,
Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (Vitamin C
Ester), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba)
Seed Oil, Limnanthes Alba
(Meadowfoam) Seed Oil, Essential Oils,
Dimethyl Isosorbide, Butylene Glycol,
Polysorbate-60 (Plant Derived),
Glyceryl Stearate (Plant Derived),
Lecithin, Hydroxyethyl
Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyl Dimethyl
Taurate Copolymer, Soybean
Glycerides, Arachidyl Alcohol, Soy
Isoflavones, Phenoxyethanol
(Preservative), Helianthus Annuus
(Hybrid Sunflower) Oil, Butyrospermum
Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Bisabolol,
Arbutin, Caprylyl Glycol (Naturally
Derived Preservative), Behenyl Alcohol,
Lonicera Japonica (Honeysuckle)
Extract (Natural Preservative),
Foeniculum Vulgare (Fennel) Fruit
Extract, Camellia Oleifera (ORGANIC)
Black Tea, Algae (Seaweed) Extract,
Xanthan Gum (Natural Thickener),
Saccharum Officinarum (Sugar Cane),
Chlorphenesin, Squalane (Plant
Derived), Retinol (Vitamin A),
Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10),
Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B5), Allantoin
(Comfrey Root Derived), Citrus Medica
Limonum (Lemon) Fruit Extract, Citrus
Aurantium Dulcis (Sweet Neroli
Orange) Fruit, Tetrasodium EDTA,
Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice,
Sodium Hyaluronate, Camellia Sinensis
(Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Arachidyl
Glucoside, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed
Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark
Extract, Vaccinium Myrtillus (Bilberry)
Extract, Phyllanthus Emblica (Amla)
Extract, Thioctic Acid (a-Lipoic Acid),
Sodium Hydroxide (pH Modifier) |
The label regs are regarded as "guidelines". There is not a strict hierarchy. In fact the manufacturer has a software program. that translates recipes into label ingredients. It does stuff like break down ingredients into derivative components (the ingredients usually have incipients) which is why there are so many in accelerator. Since we, not them, sources and provided most key ingredients, I think we overwhelmed the software. But to be sure, all actives are there in amounts optimized by reference to published dose-response. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:36 pm |
| cabrita wrote: |
| I got my samples today! Thank you Cellese & USPS! Generous too I might add. |
Got mine too, but there is definitely not enough for 3 days at 2x a day (or even at 1x day). My serum container (plastic tiny screw top like with mineral makeup samples) was nicely filled as expected, but the accelerator was only 25% filled (much diff than serum amount and perhaps a mistake).
Accelerator on left, serum on the right (containers upside down):
But on a positive note, they did include a first purchase discount for those who purchased samples. So there is basically enough for me to try once or twice and hopefully determine if it irritates my skin or not.
I will note that the samples were not sealed (as when I buy mineral makeup and they have the plastic seal around them), and there were stains on the lids and on the product insert, which sort of spoke to people sitting at a table at home filling these.
But I was appreciative of the opportunity to get samples, even though I had to pay for the shipping. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:53 pm |
BTW, my skin does look better than my countertop in the pic above!
Just tried the samples...very nice!
Both the serum and the accelerator spread very easily, and I loved that they had no discernable scent. I can see this layering very nicely under makeup.
After a couple of glasses of wine, I pushed myself over the edge and ordered the full size product combo (hey, it's cheaper than another cat!), and will start using it as soon as I am back home on May 5th (assuming it arrives by then). Very glad that there was no US shipping charge on top of the product charge, since it isn't exactly a cheap purchase.
ETA: I really wish they would consider offering Paypal as an payment option. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:26 pm |
| Quote: |
We only test on lesser species (humans). We only borrow stem cells from homo sapiens. We are very critter friendly. The only meat I eat is road kill Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy (Is my head still on?)
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH.... Missing your gopher stew?
DragoN ...make sure you visit the "fantastic actives" thread. I took liberties <gulp> Embarassed |
Haven't seen it yet....Hmmmm...sounds like may have to come back here and slap you one up side the head...?? Or High Five you....never can know with you.
Bethany
| Quote: |
| After a couple of glasses of wine, I pushed myself over the edge and ordered the full size product combo (hey, it's cheaper than another cat!) |
Too cute!!
I think you will be pleasantly surprised. Only you will know though. Keep us posted.
Agree about PayPal as well. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:27 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| cabrita wrote: |
| I got my samples today! Thank you Cellese & USPS! Generous too I might add. |
Got mine too, but there is definitely not enough for 3 days at 2x a day (or even at 1x day). My serum container (plastic tiny screw top like with mineral makeup samples) was nicely filled as expected, but the accelerator was only 25% filled (much diff than serum amount and perhaps a mistake).
Accelerator on left, serum on the right (containers upside down):
But on a positive note, they did include a first purchase discount for those who purchased samples. So there is basically enough for me to try once or twice and hopefully determine if it irritates my skin or not.
I will note that the samples were not sealed (as when I buy mineral makeup and they have the plastic seal around them), and there were stains on the lids and on the product insert, which sort of spoke to people sitting at a table at home filling these.
But I was appreciative of the opportunity to get samples, even though I had to pay for the shipping. |
Sounds like your accelerator leaked in transit. Let us know if you need more. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:44 pm |
Mine leaked as well (the serum that is). . Just about all of it was gone.
I contacted customer service. I really wanted to try both products in conjunction. |
_________________
42! Currently using: NCN All-in-One, Mito-Q cream, Eviron AVST, Osea, Grateful Body. Wouldnt be without: Rhassoul clay, avocado oil, Glorybe Herbals hydrosols and perfume oils |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:26 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
Ok. Trying to figure out the information from Kassy and Dragon in reading a label. The Retinol is in this product at 0.2%. That would mean everything underneath is even less than that? Or are we just in the range of anything below 1% can be listed in any order?
Also, the polysorbate 20 has a recommended usage of 1-20%. So, what does this mean for the ingredients below that ingredient?
Accelerator
Ingredients: Mesenchymal Stem Cell
Cytokines, Water (Aqua), Glycerin
(Plant Derived), C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate,
PPG-3 Benzyl Myristate, Carthamus
Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Alcohol,
Cetearyl Alcohol (Plant Derived),
Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E
Acetate), Polysorbate-20 (Plant
Derived), Cetearyl Glucoside,
Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (Vitamin C
Ester), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba)
Seed Oil, Limnanthes Alba
(Meadowfoam) Seed Oil, Essential Oils,
Dimethyl Isosorbide, Butylene Glycol,
Polysorbate-60 (Plant Derived),
Glyceryl Stearate (Plant Derived),
Lecithin, Hydroxyethyl
Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyl Dimethyl
Taurate Copolymer, Soybean
Glycerides, Arachidyl Alcohol, Soy
Isoflavones, Phenoxyethanol
(Preservative), Helianthus Annuus
(Hybrid Sunflower) Oil, Butyrospermum
Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Bisabolol,
Arbutin, Caprylyl Glycol (Naturally
Derived Preservative), Behenyl Alcohol,
Lonicera Japonica (Honeysuckle)
Extract (Natural Preservative),
Foeniculum Vulgare (Fennel) Fruit
Extract, Camellia Oleifera (ORGANIC)
Black Tea, Algae (Seaweed) Extract,
Xanthan Gum (Natural Thickener),
Saccharum Officinarum (Sugar Cane),
Chlorphenesin, Squalane (Plant
Derived), Retinol (Vitamin A),
Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10),
Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B5), Allantoin
(Comfrey Root Derived), Citrus Medica
Limonum (Lemon) Fruit Extract, Citrus
Aurantium Dulcis (Sweet Neroli
Orange) Fruit, Tetrasodium EDTA,
Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice,
Sodium Hyaluronate, Camellia Sinensis
(Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Arachidyl
Glucoside, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed
Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark
Extract, Vaccinium Myrtillus (Bilberry)
Extract, Phyllanthus Emblica (Amla)
Extract, Thioctic Acid (a-Lipoic Acid),
Sodium Hydroxide (pH Modifier) |
The label regs are regarded as "guidelines". There is not a strict hierarchy. In fact the manufacturer has a software program. that translates recipes into label ingredients. It does stuff like break down ingredients into derivative components (the ingredients usually have incipients) which is why there are so many in accelerator. Since we, not them, sources and provided most key ingredients, I think we overwhelmed the software. But to be sure, all actives are there in amounts optimized by reference to published dose-response. |
According to the FDA their is a strict hierarchy for both "active" ingredients and/or ingredients loaded at 1% or more.. (I posted the link on page 6.)
The link I posted to "Cosmetic Corner" pdf for interpreting formulations (also posted on pg 6) is where you'll find the "1% rule", which can help in learning how to study ingredient lists..
If/when DrJ ever answers my question "what is the % of water used in each of your products?", then it would be pretty easy to figure out the % of performance ingredients that are actually in there.. Oh, and contrary to what Dragon said about "1% for glycerin", there are many more products loaded with 5% than 1%.. (Cheap, moisturizing and a good alternative when you want the slip of silicone, but be able to say *no nasty silicone in our products* (I happen to not mind a little dimethicone personally.. keeps all the goodies in..)
Based on the 0.2% for Retinol though, I would expect that anything else worth it's salt is a bare minimum as well.. (I don't buy the 'we purposely did it so as not to cause irritation speech').. 
I dunno, to me if you have great stuff in your serum/cream whatever, I would think you'd want to shout it from the rooftop and have it prominently screaming out at the tip top of the ingredient list....since that isn't reflected in the list, I just have my doubts. Also, with a list of ingredients a mile long, how much do you all think is actually loaded in optimal amounts, and not a mere dusting? The biggest turnoff to me is having the "alpha lipoic acid", just ahead of the "lye" at the end of the list.
Perhaps the good folks of EDS are just too cosmetic savvy. I know for sure the good doc is sick of me by now... Maybe that's why he ignores the majority of my questions.. 
I hope everyone who bites the bullet gets their $$$$$'s worth and the 'cytokines' are indeed a magic bullet and not simply the new hype. |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:30 pm |
| Quote: |
| Oh, and contrary to what Dragon said about "1% for glycerin", there are many more products loaded with 5% than 1%.. |
You will do well to be accurate when you make statements and put my name next to them.
I wrote :
| Quote: |
Jom
| Quote: |
Thanks for the above info.!
|
DragoN
No worries. Not always the case though. Watch the Hyaluronic content. That's another give away. |
| Quote: |
| I hope everyone who bites the bullet gets their $$$$$'s worth and the 'cytokines' are indeed a magic bullet and not simply the new hype. |
Are you referring to White tea extract? Renovage? Argirelene?
What "magic bullet" precisely are you referring to?
Now you chase up the water content? Proof of what? That the water soluble actives are in solution?
Maybe you should best run along with your Red Palm oil, dimethicone, Renovage and white tea oxidized extract and leave the product review thread to the users of the product. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:13 pm |
Yep, I believe I was accurate!
On the other hand, you consistently and repeatedly misquote me, and make false accusations to boot.. (Renovage? Argirelene?..You clearly have me confused with someone else!) As for the white tea and palm oil, you would be smart to follow my lead there as well..
Perhaps a language barrier? Do you really not know why I'm interested in the products "water" content? Or perhaps you are just humoring DrJ by always jumping in to his defense... ! Perhaps a "red herring" as you like to call it.. Anyway, your motives are your business.
Feel free to ignore my posts, especially when they are not directed at you. I'm tired of trying to decipher your posts and figure out who you're even quoting... You should really leave the posters name. |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:45 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
Ok. Trying to figure out the information from Kassy and Dragon in reading a label. The Retinol is in this product at 0.2%.
Accelerator
Ingredients: Mesenchymal Stem Cell
Cytokines, Water (Aqua), Glycerin
(Plant Derived), C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate,
PPG-3 Benzyl Myristate, Carthamus
Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Alcohol,
Cetearyl Alcohol (Plant Derived),
Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E
Acetate), Polysorbate-20 (Plant
Derived), Cetearyl Glucoside,
Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate (Vitamin C
Ester), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba)
Seed Oil, Limnanthes Alba
(Meadowfoam) Seed Oil, Essential Oils,
Dimethyl Isosorbide, Butylene Glycol,
Polysorbate-60 (Plant Derived),
Glyceryl Stearate (Plant Derived),
Lecithin, Hydroxyethyl
Acrylate/Sodium Acryloyl Dimethyl
Taurate Copolymer, Soybean
Glycerides, Arachidyl Alcohol, Soy
Isoflavones, Phenoxyethanol
(Preservative), Helianthus Annuus
(Hybrid Sunflower) Oil, Butyrospermum
Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Bisabolol,
Arbutin, Caprylyl Glycol (Naturally
Derived Preservative), Behenyl Alcohol,
Lonicera Japonica (Honeysuckle)
Extract (Natural Preservative),
Foeniculum Vulgare (Fennel) Fruit
Extract, Camellia Oleifera (ORGANIC)
Black Tea, Algae (Seaweed) Extract,
Xanthan Gum (Natural Thickener),
Saccharum Officinarum (Sugar Cane),
Chlorphenesin, Squalane (Plant
Derived), Retinol (Vitamin A,
Ubiquinone (Coenzyme Q10),
Panthenol (Pro-Vitamin B5), Allantoin
(Comfrey Root Derived), Citrus Medica
Limonum (Lemon) Fruit Extract, Citrus
Aurantium Dulcis (Sweet Neroli
Orange) Fruit, Tetrasodium EDTA,
Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice,
Sodium Hyaluronate, Camellia Sinensis
(Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Arachidyl
Glucoside, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed
Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark
Extract, Vaccinium Myrtillus (Bilberry)
Extract, Phyllanthus Emblica (Amla)
Extract, Thioctic Acid (a-Lipoic Acid),
Sodium Hydroxide (pH Modifier) |
I'll leave you with this to ponder Riley.. The Retinol is 0.2% and Tetrasodium EDTA is loaded at 0.1% So what do you suppose the CoQ10 and B5 are loaded at? And the few other nice ingredients in the bottom 3rd of the list? And last of all the alpha lipoic acid? I'm not sure I'll get an answer to my "water" question, but when you figure in that, cytokines and the feel good ingredients in the top 3rd of the list, it won't leave much room for optimal percentage of the best performance ingredients.
Hopefully the "cytokines" are well loaded and do what is being claimed. Otherwise it's simply a lovely rich moisturizer. Just MHO.
I hope in 3 months time everybody is falling over themselves to post wonderous before and after pictures, be ready to order their 2nd or 3rd batch and sing it's praises.... I'll be happy to apologize for my many doubts at that time. |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:00 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
| The label regs are regarded as "guidelines". There is not a strict hierarchy. In fact the manufacturer has a software program. that translates recipes into label ingredients. It does stuff like break down ingredients into derivative components (the ingredients usually have incipients) which is why there are so many in accelerator. Since we, not them, sources and provided most key ingredients, I think we overwhelmed the software. But to be sure, all actives are there in amounts optimized by reference to published dose-response. |
Would it be possible for us to see the printout from the software program that shows the percent of each ingredient and the purpose of each ingredient? |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:22 am |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
I hope everyone who bites the bullet gets their $$$$$'s worth and the 'cytokines' are indeed a magic bullet and not simply the new hype. |
Oh come on Kassy at least get some samples and give it a try. It's not gimmicky like the bogus Ageless Secret after all. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:39 am |
FDA Guidelines, aren't they mandatory when it comes to labeling?
Also, I can understand that standardized extracts with optimum content of active substances don't need to be there in large amounts, but this Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Juice, very very low in the list sounds weird. |
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| Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:25 pm |
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