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Thu May 03, 2012 8:00 pm  |
Just popping in quickly to thank Dr J for clarifying the Arbutin issue!
Still really like the products also btw.
Please add my vote for a lip product, body cream/lotion & have you considered a hair maintenance/restoration product? |
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Thu May 03, 2012 8:34 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
I know that bone marrow derived stem cells have the ability to reproduce indefinitely... Can you please tell me if/how this works when just the "cytokines" (from the extraction medium) are used? Do they also replicate/reproduce?
I think you may have touched briefly on this, but I'd really love to understand it fully (in regard to your products mode of action.)
Thanks! |
Stem cells in culture are not "immortal". We only take them through about 10 divisions or generations, because beyond that they really want to differentiate into other cell types. This reflects the difference between living in a bioreactor vs in vivo (in the body).
Cytokines are biochemicals so they cannot reproduce on their own.
Mesenchymal stem cells can be coaxed to make just the right cytokines for skin rejuvenation. That's the stem cytokines we harvest from mesenchymal stem cells and put in the product. |
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Fri May 04, 2012 8:58 am |
For the geekiest amongst you.
A NICE QUICK REVIEW ON MSC'S.
Clinical applications of mesenchymal stem cells
Journal of Hematology & Oncology 2012, 5:19 doi:10.1186/1756-8722-5-19
Published: 30 April 2012
Abstract (provisional)
Mesenchymal stem cells (MSC) have generated a great amount of enthusiasm over the past decade as a novel therapeutic paradigm for a variety of diseases. Currently, MSC based clinical trials have been conducted for at least 12 kinds of pathological conditions, with many completed trials demonstrating the safety and efficacy. This review provides an overview of the recent clinical findings related to MSC therapeutic effects. Roles of MSCs in clinical trials conducted to treat graft-versus-host-disease (GVHD) and cardiovascular diseases are highlighted. Clinical application of MSC are mainly attributed to their important four biological properties- the ability to home to sites of inflammation following tissue injury when injected intravenously; to differentiate into various cell types; to secrete multiple bioactive molecules capable of stimulating recovery of injured cells and inhibiting inflammation and to perform immunomodulatory and regenerative functions. Here, we will discuss these four properties. Moreover, the issues surrounding clinical grade MSCs and principles for MSC therapeutic approaches are also addressed on the transition of MSCs therapy from bench side to bedside.
The complete article is available as a provisional PDF.
http://www.jhoonline.org/content/pdf/1756-8722-5-19.pdf |
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Fri May 04, 2012 9:38 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
I know that bone marrow derived stem cells have the ability to reproduce indefinitely... Can you please tell me if/how this works when just the "cytokines" (from the extraction medium) are used? Do they also replicate/reproduce?
I think you may have touched briefly on this, but I'd really love to understand it fully (in regard to your products mode of action.)
Thanks! |
Stem cells in culture are not "immortal". We only take them through about 10 divisions or generations, because beyond that they really want to differentiate into other cell types. This reflects the difference between living in a bioreactor vs in vivo (in the body).
Cytokines are biochemicals so they cannot reproduce on their own.
Mesenchymal stem cells can be coaxed to make just the right cytokines for skin rejuvenation. That's the stem cytokines we harvest from mesenchymal stem cells and put in the product. |
Thanks Doc... Tis crystal clear now  |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Fri May 04, 2012 9:40 am |
| foxe wrote: |
| How long have you been using the products and have you seen a decrease in the oil? how are things working out? |
Hi Foxe, I have been using the products a little over 3 weeks. I have seen maybe a little decrease in oil production but I have not broken out at all and that is a real plus for me. I do see a decrease in pore size on my cheeks and better color/tone overall. Overall I am happy with this product so far. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Fri May 04, 2012 9:42 am |
| CookieD wrote: |
| How long have you been using the products and have you seen a decrease in the oil? how are things working out? |
Hi Foxe, I have been using the products a little over 3 weeks. I have seen maybe a little decrease in oil production but I have not broken out at all and that is a real plus for me. I do see a decrease in pore size on my cheeks and better color/tone overall. Overall I am happy with this product so far.[/quote]
Sorry I still don't know how to do this quote thing. What am I doing wrong? |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Fri May 04, 2012 9:51 am |
Autologous though, back to square one.
Allogenic not quite there:
Engraftment of allogeneic mesenchymal stem cells in the bone marrow of a patient with severe idiopathic aplastic anemia improves stroma
Allogeneic Mesenchymal Stem Cells for Treatment of Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis
Just for clarity, in AnteAge, you are stating BM MSC or MSC?
CookieD
Do this without the *
[*quote]copy and paste text whatever [*/quote]
Will look like this;
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| copy and paste text whatever |
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If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Fri May 04, 2012 11:40 am |
These papers are about stem cells implants and transplants (cell therapy - not what Cellese does) but are interesting because they talk about the unique status that MSC's have as immune modulators. They do this partly through cytokines, which is why (in part) AnteAGE is anti-inflammatory in its modulation of regeneration.
| DragoN wrote: |
Just for clarity, in AnteAge, you are stating BM MSC or MSC? |
BM-MSC (mesenchymal stem cells of bone marrow origin). A unique stem cell niche. The fire house where they park the fire trucks. |
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Fri May 04, 2012 12:01 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
BM-MSC (mesenchymal stem cells of bone marrow origin). A unique stem cell niche. |
From 12 year old virgins harvested under a full moon while DrJ chanted, "This won't hurt a bit."
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If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Fri May 04, 2012 12:19 pm |
| DragoN wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
BM-MSC (mesenchymal stem cells of bone marrow origin). A unique stem cell niche. |
From 12 year old virgins harvested under a full moon while DrJ chanted, "This won't hurt a bit."
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They told me they were 13! |
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Fri May 04, 2012 1:27 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| DragoN wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
BM-MSC (mesenchymal stem cells of bone marrow origin). A unique stem cell niche. |
From 12 year old virgins harvested under a full moon while DrJ chanted, "This won't hurt a bit."
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They told me they were 13! |
Great now they won't work...  |
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Fri May 04, 2012 1:51 pm |
More:
...Our findings suggest that bone marrow MSC are capable of alleviating the immunoreactions leading to the fibrosis in the liver.
Same thing going in in skin. Photoaging is inflammatory, and the older you get the more you respond to inflammatory damages with fibrosis. Fibrosis in the liver (or anywhere) means scarring.
Scarring is confluent fibrosis that obliterates the architecture of the underlying organ or tissue.
In the skin we call this a wrinkle. Wrinkles are architectural defects in the skin's matrix compartment. |
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Fri May 04, 2012 8:21 pm |
| DragoN wrote: |
Day #10. Calm clear skin. Have been using both around eyes since Day #1. Good.
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DragoN, what's the latest update on your use of AntiAGE? |
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Fri May 04, 2012 8:43 pm |
| I received my samples last Friday (the serum leaked but there was enough for 3 applications) and I liked both the serum and the activator. My skin seemed brighter and more even-toned after only 2-3 applications and my skin's texture was silky smooth, something I haven't experienced in years. I could not believe how quickly my skin reacted in such a positive way, it must have been really starved. The activator is rich enough that I don't need a moisturizer after applying it. - I ordered the full size of both the serum and the activator. |
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Fri May 04, 2012 9:49 pm |
Sage06
Excellent.
No problems. Skin is good, calm. Similar to another poster, I can use less as it is rich without being greasy. Lovely around the eyes and upper eyelid in particular.
I am a lousy lab rat. My skin has been good for quite a while with my own mixes. The only reason I even considered to try AnteAge, I know the science behind the actives. Solid. Only the BM MSC cytokines were missing. subbed Kinetin, but it's not the same, good but not same
| Sage06 wrote: |
| My skin seemed brighter and more even-toned after only 2-3 applications and my skin's texture was silky smooth, something I haven't experienced in years. I could not believe how quickly my skin reacted in such a positive way, it must have been really starved. The activator is rich enough that I don't need a moisturizer after applying it. - I ordered the full size of both the serum and the activator. |
Good to read that.
Well done DrJ. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sat May 05, 2012 8:46 am |
There is a tight relationship between hematopoietic stem cells (HSCs) and mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) in your bone marrow. It is the MSC's that are the rejuvenators.
Making Old Stem Cells Functionally Young
More rejuvenation of stem cell function demonstrated in mice: "Researchers have rejuvenated aged hematopoietic stem cells to be functionally younger, offering intriguing clues into how medicine might one day fend off some ailments of old age. ... The paper brings new perspective to what has been a life science controversy - countering what used to be broad consensus that the aging of hematopoietic stem cells (HSCs) was locked in by nature and not reversible by therapeutic intervention. HSCs are stem cells that originate in the bone marrow and generate all of the body's red and white blood cells and platelets. They are an essential support mechanism of blood cells and the immune system. As humans and other species age, HSCs become more numerous but less effective at regenerating blood cells and immune cells. ... Researchers in the current study determined a protein that regulates cell signaling - Cdc42 - also controls a molecular process that causes HSCs from mice to age. Pharmacologic inhibition of Cdc42 reversed HSC aging and restored function similar to that of younger stem cells. ... We know the aging of HSCs reduces in part the response of the immune system response in older people, which contributes to diseases such as anemia, and may be the cause of tissue attrition in certain systems of the body. ... One reason the research team focused on Cdc42 is that previous studies have reported elevated activity of the protein in various tissue types of older mice - which have a natural life span of around two years. Also, elevated expression of Cdc42 has been found in immune system white blood cells in older humans. In the current study, researchers found elevated activity of Cdc42 in the HSCs of older mice. They also were able to induce premature aging of HSCs in mice by genetically increasing Cdc42 activity in the cells. ... To test the rejuvenated cells, the researchers used a process known as serial competitive transplantation. This included extracting HSCs from young (2-4 months) and aged (20-26 months) mice and processing them in laboratory cultures. Young and rejuvenated cells were then engrafted into recipient mice. This allowed scientists to compare how well young and rejuvenated aged HSCs started to repopulate and transform into different types of blood cells. It also confirmed that HSCs rejuvenated by targeting Cdc42 do function similarly to young stem cells." |
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Sat May 05, 2012 10:08 am |
yes, ma'am.
And here is more on the MSC proteome, particularly of the microvescicles which are the "packaged for export" cell rejuvenation injectables of MSC's
J Proteome Res. 2012 Feb 3;11(2):839-49. Epub 2011 Dec 28.
Proteomic analysis of microvesicles derived from human mesenchymal stem cells.
Mesenchymal stem cells (MSCs) have emerged as a promising means for treating degenerative or incurable diseases. Recent studies have shown that microvesicles (MVs) from MSCs (MSC-MVs) contribute to recovery of damaged tissues in animal disease models. Here, we profiled the MSC-MV proteome to investigate their therapeutic effects. LC-MS/MS analysis of MSC-MVs identified 730 MV proteins. The MSC-MV proteome included five positive and two variable known markers of MSCs, but no negative marker, as well as 43 surface receptors and signaling molecules controlling self-renewal and differentiation of MSCs. Functional enrichment analysis showed that cellular processes represented by the MSC-MV proteins include cell proliferation, adhesion, migration, and morphogenesis. Integration of MSC's self-renewal and differentiation-related genes and the proteome of MSC-conditioned media (MSC-CM) with the MSC-MV proteome revealed potential MV protein candidates that can be associated with the therapeutic effects of MSC-MVs: (1) surface receptors (PDGFRB, EGFR, and PLAUR); (2) signaling molecules (RRAS/NRAS, MAPK1, GNA13/GNG12, CDC42, and VAV2); (3) cell adhesion (FN1, EZR, IQGAP1, CD47, integrins, and LGALS1/LGALS3); and (4) MSC-associated antigens (CD9, CD63, CD81, CD109, CD151, CD248, and CD276). Therefore, the MSC-MV proteome provides a comprehensive basis for understanding the potential of MSC-MVs to affect tissue repair and regeneration. |
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Sat May 05, 2012 11:11 pm |
Will MSCs help with lash growth? I have read about Reluma lash serum. These are the ingredients:
Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Glycerin, Sodium Carboxymethyl Cellulose, Sodium Benzoate, Hydrolized Keratin, Gluconolactone, Panthenol, Allantoin, Sodium PCA, Oleth-20, Phenoxyethanol, Water |
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Sat May 05, 2012 11:18 pm |
| Gosha wrote: |
Will MSCs help with lash growth? I have read about Reluma lash serum. These are the ingredients:
Human Adipose Derived Stem Cell Conditioned Media, Glycerin, Sodium Carboxymethyl Cellulose, Sodium Benzoate, Hydrolized Keratin, Gluconolactone, Panthenol, Allantoin, Sodium PCA, Oleth-20, Phenoxyethanol, Water |
Hair growth stimulated by conditioned medium of adipose-derived stem cells is enhanced by hypoxia: evidence of increased growth factor secretion.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20203417
I hope the Cellese products do not encourage facial hair growth, we don't want hairy faces do we? |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun May 06, 2012 3:52 am |
| I just thought I would report in on my progress after using the serum for three weeks. I really love this product and I think it has improved my under-eye area by plumping up some lines and I think my pores are smaller and redness diminished. It is a real pleasure to use this product. It is high quality stuff. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 7:24 am |
| Dr. J, this may have been asked and answered before, but how long is it necessary to use both products twice a day. Meaning, like with the SkinMedica TNS, you use the serum twice a day for 3 months and then you can back off to once a day. Is this something that one can do with the AnteAGE products, or do you recommend continually using both products twice a day? |
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Sun May 06, 2012 8:15 am |
| jom wrote: |
| I just thought I would report in on my progress after using the serum for three weeks. I really love this product and I think it has improved my under-eye area by plumping up some lines and I think my pores are smaller and redness diminished. It is a real pleasure to use this product. It is high quality stuff. |
I have to agree with the line plumping comment. I noticed some line softening on my forehead and glabella near the end of my sample usage, and I noticed it again this morning after starting back up with the full size products Friday night (I am using both 2x day). Obviously it is hydration related, but I'll still take it!
I am using it on my face (including eyelids), neck, chest and the tops of my hands so I will be interested in how long it lasts (though I am using it sparingly). I do enjoy using the products, though ongoing usage will need to be based on results.
I was very impressed with the look of the packaging and even the shipping materials, but do have a few comments:
- My full size accelerator leaked inside the box, which was very surprising/disappointing. I was able to clean it off, but it was yucky and wasteful. 
- At this price point I would have liked to see an in-box product insert extolling the virtues of the 2 products and providing more detail on usage and clinicals (maybe in the future, since I know this is basically a startup)
- I am not really clear on why the Accelerator has more 20ml product than the serum?
- I would like more details on the promised loyalty program now...since I am planning on giving this a 3-6 month trial, I know I will need to repurchase and would like to do so BEFORE my other bottles run out. Since there is no way to tell product levels with airless pumps, that requires pre-planning on my part in order to avoid a week's break in usage. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun May 06, 2012 9:01 am |
| bethany wrote: |
- I would like more details on the promised loyalty program now...since I am planning on giving this a 3-6 month trial, I know I will need to repurchase and would like to do so BEFORE my other bottles run out. Since there is no way to tell product levels with airless pumps, that requires pre-planning on my part in order to avoid a week's break in usage.[/list] |
Agree. Info now please! |
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