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Tue May 08, 2012 6:32 pm  |
| jom wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
[ Speaking of which .... is it happy hour yet?  And what's on TCM tonight? |
Apparently not, you still have essential oils on your ingredients list for the serum on the Cellese website.  Perhaps you're imbibing too much which is resulting in a lack of attention to detail? 
I prefer HGTV. |
Ah, that's the problem. Cellese.com needs a refresh. AnteAge.com is right. It takes a while. If we get married, we are going to need separate TV's! |
This is the link you provided a few posts back http://anteage.com/key-ingredients/ I believe it is the AnteAGE website and it still says essential oils.
I thought you were already married? I'm calling out the papparazzi! (or better yet the FBI-there's another hole in your statement)! |
Then again, we could be the same sex. Not admitting which I am. I thought we were talking accelerator. No EO's there. |
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Tue May 08, 2012 6:50 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| I thought we were talking accelerator. No EO's there. |
So there are EO's in the serum? Or no EO's anywhere? |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue May 08, 2012 6:56 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| I thought we were talking accelerator. No EO's there. |
So there are EO's in the serum? Or no EO's anywhere? |
I know he has said neither product contains EO's, we nixed that when they were developing as some are sensitive to them. I am pretty sure there are not any from what has been said prior to today.  |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Tue May 08, 2012 7:21 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| [ Speaking of which .... is it happy hour yet? And what's on TCM tonight? |
Apparently not, you still have essential oils on your ingredients list for the serum on the Cellese website. Perhaps you're imbibing too much which is resulting in a lack of attention to detail?
I prefer HGTV. |
Ah, that's the problem. Cellese.com needs a refresh. AnteAge.com is right. It takes a while. If we get married, we are going to need separate TV's! |
This is the link you provided a few posts back http://anteage.com/key-ingredients/ I believe it is the AnteAGE website and it still says essential oils.
I thought you were already married? I'm calling out the papparazzi! (or better yet the FBI-there's another hole in your statement)! |
Then again, we could be the same sex. Not admitting which I am. I thought we were talking accelerator. No EO's there. |
I thought you said there were no EOs in the serum either? Which is it? Or are you saying you thought I was talking about the accelerator so you looked at that ingredients list and you did not realize that the ingredients for the serum still had EOs in the list? But it should not be there.
I'm not admitting what sex I am either! |
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Tue May 08, 2012 7:37 pm |
| CookieD wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| CookieD wrote: |
Hi Rileygirl, I am using 1 1/2 to 2 pumps of serum 2x a day and the same for accelerator. There is a dark area on both the top and the bottom of the bottles. The product amount left is in between these two dark areas if that makes sense.
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Thanks, Cookie. So, I am seeing right and there is a dark area on both the top and bottom? I will recheck tonight, but really from the looks of it I have 1/3 of the product left! |
Riley, I look at the bottom of the container. There is a light area on the bottom of the container and when it turns dark you can tell that is the amount of product that is left. |
Jom, do you not have a dark area on the top of your bottle also? On mine it comes down about 3/4 of an inch for the bottom of the silver cap.I'm not trying to say that there isn't the right amount of product in the bottles. I'm just trying to make sure I'm looking at it right so I know when to order more. |
Cookie, you're right. I have a dark area at the top of the container too that is about 3/4 inches. Maybe the way the pump works is that it squeezes the ingredients from both ends so when those two pieces meet the container is empty. I don't know if that 3/4 inches was there when I got it or if that will change as I use the product. I have about 2 inches of product left and I'm thinking it may only last me another 3-4 weeks. |
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Tue May 08, 2012 8:55 pm |
| jom wrote: |
| I have about 2 inches of product left and I'm thinking it may only last me another 3-4 weeks. |
That is about what I have jom, and I think we started almost at the same time. And, I see the same thing when I hold it up to the light. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 8:43 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| jom wrote: |
| I have about 2 inches of product left and I'm thinking it may only last me another 3-4 weeks. |
That is about what I have jom, and I think we started almost at the same time. And, I see the same thing when I hold it up to the light. |
The lighter space at the top doesn't move. It is from the top of the container to the top of the AnteAGE printing on the serum container. But higher on the accel. It's just the darker space from there on down that changes, shrinking from the bottom up. When the dark space shrinks to a line, you are empty. Hope this helps. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 9:20 am |
| Are these products safe during pregnancy? |
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Wed May 09, 2012 9:26 am |
| hazelwood160 wrote: |
| Are these products safe during pregnancy? |
I would not risk it:
Retinoids
These powerful substances, found in some antiaging moisturizers, are lauded for helping reduce wrinkles and improve skin tone. Retinoids are a type of vitamin A that speeds up cell division (quickening your skin's renewal) and prevent skin collagen from breaking down.
But retinoids are one of the skin-care ingredients that experts, including Baumann, recommend that expectant moms stay away from. Some studies have shown that high doses of vitamin A during pregnancy can be harmful to an unborn child. And oral retinoids, such as isotretinoin (Accutane, an acne treatment), are known to cause birth defects.
If you've been using a skin cream that contains a retinoid, don't panic. Retinoids have not been shown to cause problems in their topical form in pregnant women.
"There is no data to show these retinoids ingredients are harmful when used on the skin — doctors are just being extra cautious," explains Baumann.
On the label:
Differin (adapelene)
Retin-A, Renova (tretinoin)
Retinoic acid
Retinol
Retinyl linoleate
Retinyl palmitate
Tazorac and avage (Tazarotene)
Bottom line:
Best to avoid
http://www.babycenter.com/0_safe-skin-care-during-pregnancy_1490031.bc |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 09, 2012 9:44 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| hazelwood160 wrote: |
| Are these products safe during pregnancy? |
I would not risk it:
Retinoids
These powerful substances, found in some antiaging moisturizers, are lauded for helping reduce wrinkles and improve skin tone. Retinoids are a type of vitamin A that speeds up cell division (quickening your skin's renewal) and prevent skin collagen from breaking down.
But retinoids are one of the skin-care ingredients that experts, including Baumann, recommend that expectant moms stay away from. Some studies have shown that high doses of vitamin A during pregnancy can be harmful to an unborn child. And oral retinoids, such as isotretinoin (Accutane, an acne treatment), are known to cause birth defects.
If you've been using a skin cream that contains a retinoid, don't panic. Retinoids have not been shown to cause problems in their topical form in pregnant women.
"There is no data to show these retinoids ingredients are harmful when used on the skin — doctors are just being extra cautious," explains Baumann.
On the label:
Differin (adapelene)
Retin-A, Renova (tretinoin)
Retinoic acid
Retinol
Retinyl linoleate
Retinyl palmitate
Tazorac and avage (Tazarotene)
Bottom line:
Best to avoid
http://www.babycenter.com/0_safe-skin-care-during-pregnancy_1490031.bc |
So Retin-A, Retinoic Acid, Retinol, Retinyl linoleate, Retinyl palmitate are safe during pregnancy if applied topically, but Differin, Tazorac and avage are not?
Just want to make sure I get it right
Thanks! |
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Wed May 09, 2012 9:55 am |
| fitgineer wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| hazelwood160 wrote: |
| Are these products safe during pregnancy? |
I would not risk it:
Retinoids
These powerful substances, found in some antiaging moisturizers, are lauded for helping reduce wrinkles and improve skin tone. Retinoids are a type of vitamin A that speeds up cell division (quickening your skin's renewal) and prevent skin collagen from breaking down.
But retinoids are one of the skin-care ingredients that experts, including Baumann, recommend that expectant moms stay away from. Some studies have shown that high doses of vitamin A during pregnancy can be harmful to an unborn child. And oral retinoids, such as isotretinoin (Accutane, an acne treatment), are known to cause birth defects.
If you've been using a skin cream that contains a retinoid, don't panic. Retinoids have not been shown to cause problems in their topical form in pregnant women.
"There is no data to show these retinoids ingredients are harmful when used on the skin — doctors are just being extra cautious," explains Baumann.
On the label:
Differin (adapelene)
Retin-A, Renova (tretinoin)
Retinoic acid
Retinol
Retinyl linoleate
Retinyl palmitate
Tazorac and avage (Tazarotene)
Bottom line:
Best to avoid
http://www.babycenter.com/0_safe-skin-care-during-pregnancy_1490031.bc |
So Retin-A, Retinoic Acid, Retinol, Retinyl linoleate, Retinyl palmitate are safe during pregnancy if applied topically, but Differin, Tazorac and avage are not?
Just want to make sure I get it right
Thanks! |
You picked the exact opposite of what they said:
| Quote: |
On the label:
Differin (adapelene)
Retin-A, Renova (tretinoin)
Retinoic acid
Retinol
Retinyl linoleate
Retinyl palmitate
Tazorac and avage (Tazarotene)
Bottom line:
Best to avoid |
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_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 9:59 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| fitgineer wrote: |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| hazelwood160 wrote: |
| Are these products safe during pregnancy? |
I would not risk it:
Retinoids
These powerful substances, found in some antiaging moisturizers, are lauded for helping reduce wrinkles and improve skin tone. Retinoids are a type of vitamin A that speeds up cell division (quickening your skin's renewal) and prevent skin collagen from breaking down.
But retinoids are one of the skin-care ingredients that experts, including Baumann, recommend that expectant moms stay away from. Some studies have shown that high doses of vitamin A during pregnancy can be harmful to an unborn child. And oral retinoids, such as isotretinoin (Accutane, an acne treatment), are known to cause birth defects.
If you've been using a skin cream that contains a retinoid, don't panic. Retinoids have not been shown to cause problems in their topical form in pregnant women.
"There is no data to show these retinoids ingredients are harmful when used on the skin — doctors are just being extra cautious," explains Baumann.
On the label:
Differin (adapelene)
Retin-A, Renova (tretinoin)
Retinoic acid
Retinol
Retinyl linoleate
Retinyl palmitate
Tazorac and avage (Tazarotene)
Bottom line:
Best to avoid
http://www.babycenter.com/0_safe-skin-care-during-pregnancy_1490031.bc |
So Retin-A, Retinoic Acid, Retinol, Retinyl linoleate, Retinyl palmitate are safe during pregnancy if applied topically, but Differin, Tazorac and avage are not?
Just want to make sure I get it right
Thanks! |
You picked the exact opposite of what they said:
| Quote: |
On the label:
Differin (adapelene)
Retin-A, Renova (tretinoin)
Retinoic acid
Retinol
Retinyl linoleate
Retinyl palmitate
Tazorac and avage (Tazarotene)
Bottom line:
Best to avoid |
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Exactly, even though it says doctors are being extra cautious, when it comes to potential birth defects you can not be too careful IMO. |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 09, 2012 10:01 am |
| hazelwood160 wrote: |
| Are these products safe during pregnancy? |
Hi Hazelwwod160. Because very high doses of vitamin A can be toxic to a growing fetus (as can deficiency of the same vitamin, the standard disclaimer is to stay away from any products with that ingredient during pregnancy. To be extra cautious.
The AnteAGE serum does not contain Vitamin A in any form. The accelerator does. You can use the serum alone to good benefit, or you can add to it a well moisturizing niacinamide + C + E product that will eliminate any VitA concerns.
Some of our AnteAGE users have become pregnant while on the product (we claim no connection - although we do get thank you notes from spouses of users - so we may be a co-variable). |
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Wed May 09, 2012 3:22 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
The lighter space at the top doesn't move. It is from the top of the container to the top of the AnteAGE printing on the serum container. But higher on the accel. It's just the darker space from there on down that changes, shrinking from the bottom up. When the dark space shrinks to a line, you are empty. Hope this helps. |
Ok. Thank you. That helps me know what I am seeing!
My replacement serum is on its way! Thank you Dr. J. Excellent customer service. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 3:53 pm |
My shields are up and flame proof so here goes, I have discussed my use with a friend in the medical profession (no I won't ask this person to get involved) anyway I was emailed two links and I am not so sure I know quite what to make of them?
Conditioned medium from mesenchymal stem cells induces cell death in organotypic cultures of rat hippocampus and aggravates lesion in a model of oxygen and glucose deprivation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18977399
Mesenchymal stem cell-conditioned medium triggers neuroinflammation and reactive species generation in organotypic cultures of rat hippocampus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20955077 |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:34 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
My shields are up and flame proof so here goes, I have discussed my use with a friend in the medical profession (no I won't ask this person to get involved) anyway I was emailed two links and I am not so sure I know quite what to make of them?
Conditioned medium from mesenchymal stem cells induces cell death in organotypic cultures of rat hippocampus and aggravates lesion in a model of oxygen and glucose deprivation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18977399
Mesenchymal stem cell-conditioned medium triggers neuroinflammation and reactive species generation in organotypic cultures of rat hippocampus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20955077 |
Not to insult the Brazilians, but this is shoddy science. First, the protocol was whack. You don't critically traumatize neural cells in culture, add CM of anything, and then claim that the cells died because of the CM. Silly. Further, a well known rescue function in cell biology is to kill off the really badly damaged cells so that those less damaged can survive. This is part of the senescence response. It actually helps prevent cancer. Second, conditioned media of MSC's ia a bit of a misnomer. It means they hadn't a clue about the cytokines in that medium. Which BTW depends on things like growth medium contents, added factors if any, O2 levels, CO2 levels, etc. The composition of cytokines changes drastically. Instead of getting anti-inflammatory patterns you will get inflammatory ones. From the results, I'd gather they did just that.
Now, let me tell you there is some rather remarkable work belong done at the stem cell institute I am associated with in terms of recovering from neural damage using mesenchymal stem cells. I'm talking spinal cord damaged people regaining function!
So, lets look at the broad literature touching on the science of neural tissues and mesenchymal stem cells and their secreted factors (cytokines).
Here is a simple search at Pubmed on MSC's neural and therapy. 182 citations are returned.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%22mesenchymal%20stem%20cell%20%22%20neural%20therapy
Read through the titles. How many of these are suggesting negative results? Notice the huge variety of neurologic disorders that have been studies. Trauma, degenerative dirders, autism.
Lets look at a few titles: Placental mesenchymal stromal cells induced into neurotrophic factor-producing cells protect neuronal cells from hypoxia and oxidative stress.
Combination of activated Schwann cells with bone mesenchymal stem cells: the best cell strategy for repair after spinal cord injury in rats.
Human adipose-derived stem cells for the treatment of intracerebral hemorrhage in rats via femoral intravenous injection.
Mesenchymal stem cells for the treatment of multiple sclerosis and other neurological diseases.
Adult stem cells and bioengineering strategies for the treatment of cerebral ischemic stroke.
Human mesenchymal stem cells infiltrate the spinal cord, reduce demyelination, and localize to white matter lesions in experimental autoimmune
encephalomyelitis.
The neuroprotective effect of erythropoietin-transduced human mesenchymal stromal cells in an animal model of ischemic stroke.
Here is a very nice full text review article:
http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Robert-H-Miller/2010/03/17/the-potential-of-mesenchymal-stem-cells-for-neural-repair/
DM's "friend in the profession" is clearly not a stem cell biologist. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:35 pm |
Now it becomes even more imperative to see results from longer-term testing and histological data.
The only study I found on internet was the trial by Gold and Goldman, and that trial lasted I think only 3 months. Strangely enough, after that, practically nothing.
And it would be helpful if dr J could provide a link to the paper he must have published by now?
(and the complete, corrected ingredient lists....) |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:50 pm |
Right.
Dr J., you quote titles like
| Quote: |
Human adipose-derived stem cells for the treatment of intracerebral hemorrhage in rats via femoral intravenous injection.
Mesenchymal stem cells for the treatment of multiple sclerosis and other neurological diseases.
Adult stem cells and bioengineering strategies for the treatment of cerebral ischemic stroke.
Human mesenchymal stem cells infiltrate the spinal cord, reduce demyelination, and localize to white matter lesions in experimental autoimmune
encephalomyelitis.
The neuroprotective effect of erythropoietin-transduced human mesenchymal stromal cells in an animal model of ischemic stroke.
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This is about STEM CELLS that are used to repair damaged tissue.
This s NOT about adding loads of cytokines to healthy cells.
Your product contains cytokines, not stem cells. So the titles you quote are totally irrelevant to this matter.
Everyone here has google and/or google scientific. We can all find the articles you provide us with. It is up to YOU to prove the connection with your product. Quoting titles that speak about a totally different entity - cells, not the products of cultured cells - is really beside the point. DarkMoon's articles DO speak about cytokines, not stem cell therapy.
Just so that you understand that I may be blonde and stupid, but I can distinguish between a cell and its provoked product. And I am one of the smaller brains on this forum, so. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:52 pm |
| Oh and in remembrance of Carthage - when can we see the correct ingredient lists? As required by FDA? |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:57 pm |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
Now it becomes even more imperative to see results from longer-term testing and histological data.
The only study I found on internet was the trial by Gold and Goldman, and that trial lasted I think only 3 months. Strangely enough, after that, practically nothing.
And it would be helpful if dr J could provide a link to the paper he must have published by now?
(and the complete, corrected ingredient lists....) |
I just gave 182 papers in refutation. High quality, many in vivo, not in vitro. From highly qualified investigators. Consensus documents. Reviews. Anybody not satisfied with that will never be satisfied. I'm resting my case. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 4:59 pm |
| Yeah right. And the proper ingredient list, about which I think the questions started at page 3 of this monster topic, will not be published either? |
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Wed May 09, 2012 5:01 pm |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| Oh and in remembrance of Carthage - when can we see the correct ingredient lists? As required by FDA? |
Hmm, I guess that was a no to the correct ingredient list. Is that not shoddy production and manufacturing? |
_________________
I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Wed May 09, 2012 5:03 pm |
| I have been advised not to respond to comments clearly placed to merely bait me or to pursue some personal agenda about which I am unaware. . I'll take their wise advice. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 5:08 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| Oh and in remembrance of Carthage - when can we see the correct ingredient lists? As required by FDA? |
Hmm, I guess that was a no to the correct ingredient list. Is that not shoddy production and manufacturing? |
No. It was shoddy if it had been shipped out at first without proper checking. But after having been pointed to mistakes, and been asked several times to correct it, shoddy isn't the right word. Quoting the Scripture to state that someone is above the law in a matter like this, as dr J did, only makes the impression worse IMO. It doesn't cost much to print out a few pages of ink jet stickers to put on the bottles before shipping or correcting the website. Shoddy is not paying attention. Not paying attention when your attention is called to the mistakes several times is... well, shoddy isn't the right word for that. |
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Wed May 09, 2012 5:15 pm |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
Right.
Dr J., you quote titles like
| Quote: |
Human adipose-derived stem cells for the treatment of intracerebral hemorrhage in rats via femoral intravenous injection.
Mesenchymal stem cells for the treatment of multiple sclerosis and other neurological diseases.
Adult stem cells and bioengineering strategies for the treatment of cerebral ischemic stroke.
Human mesenchymal stem cells infiltrate the spinal cord, reduce demyelination, and localize to white matter lesions in experimental autoimmune
encephalomyelitis.
The neuroprotective effect of erythropoietin-transduced human mesenchymal stromal cells in an animal model of ischemic stroke.
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This is about STEM CELLS that are used to repair damaged tissue.
This s NOT about adding loads of cytokines to healthy cells.
Your product contains cytokines, not stem cells. So the titles you quote are totally irrelevant to this matter.
Everyone here has google and/or google scientific. We can all find the articles you provide us with. It is up to YOU to prove the connection with your product. Quoting titles that speak about a totally different entity - cells, not the products of cultured cells - is really beside the point. DarkMoon's articles DO speak about cytokines, not stem cell therapy.
Just so that you understand that I may be blonde and stupid, but I can distinguish between a cell and its provoked product. And I am one of the smaller brains on this forum, so. |
I have taught here many times, and abundantly at BFT, referencing a wide body of literature, MSC's affect their magic principally by secreting cytokines (paracrines). It is not controversial in the least. It is not a secret. How did you imagine they were doing it?
You are asking me to repeat the same logic constructs every time I mention a new application, or tissue, or protocol. It's like a textbook. Sometimes you need to take the effort to go back and re-read what you missed. Don't expect the author to say the same thing over and over in every chapter. |
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