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Sat May 12, 2012 9:08 pm  |
| bethany wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Maybe bamboo shoots under the fingernails.  |
More like squabbling on threads, or the horrid dermaroll I have planned in a couple of months!  |
Ah, the perfect bethany torture. If we ever need to extract secrets from you, we know exactly what methods to employ.
We probably won't be ready in time to save you, but we are working on something that might ultimately move rolling out of the torture category. |
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Sat May 12, 2012 10:01 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
We probably won't be ready in time to save you, but we are working on something that might ultimately move rolling out of the torture category. |
Now that I will definitely be waiting for! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat May 12, 2012 10:41 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| we are working on something that might ultimately move rolling out of the torture category. |
You're such a tease! You can't say something like that without giving more details! What are you working on and when will it be ready? |
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Sat May 12, 2012 10:51 pm |
Ditto Jom, DrJ.
I'm reading... |
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If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sat May 12, 2012 11:01 pm |
| I am also very interested, so ... |
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Early 50s, Skin: combin.,semi-sensitive, fair with occasional breakouts, some old acne scars, freckles, under-eye wrinkles; Redhead with hazel eyes |
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Sat May 12, 2012 11:36 pm |
I thought this thread would be a user review opportunity, not the WWF. Where are the reviews? All this other stuff aside, how are users liking the product? What are you seeing?
I have been using the serum since about the time it became available and can't say that I've seen anything, but I'm willing to wait a few months to render a verdict. My skin was in pretty good shape to start with thanks to years of retin a and sunblock.
I also have the accelerator. My skin is normal to oily, and I don't like lotions and creams on my face, especially during the summer, so I'm not using the accelerator very much. I understand that my non-compliance with the accelerator may slow the process, but I guess I'll just have to live with that. 
I use the serum twice a day. In the morning I follow with sunblock. In the evening I follow with a mixture of retin a and Obagi Clear (4% hydroquinone) about every other evening. Some nights I'll use an anti-acne product over it.
In sum, I like the feel of the serum, but I don't care much for the accelerator because I don't like lotions and creams in general. I haven't noticed any improvements in my skin yet, but I'm going to keep using the serum. Realistically, it takes a while for topical products to make an impact, and I think the science behind the product makes sense.
I would love to get an update from the rest of you. Thanks. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 12:34 am |
Loving this serum. I don't ever buy anything, Ever. This one...bloody expensive. But an excellent serum on my skin.
Like yourself, have also added in a few things along the way. { lousy labrat!! } works better. |
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If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun May 13, 2012 1:08 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
Loving this serum. I don't ever buy anything, Ever. This one...bloody expensive. But an excellent serum on my skin.
Like yourself, have also added in a few things along the way. { lousy labrat!! } works better. |
What have you added to the serum - and why has that improved it? How can you tell? |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun May 13, 2012 3:42 am |
| Elvisshops wrote: |
I thought this thread would be a user review opportunity, not the WWF. Where are the reviews? All this other stuff aside, how are users liking the product? What are you seeing?
I have been using the serum since about the time it became available and can't say that I've seen anything, but I'm willing to wait a few months to render a verdict. My skin was in pretty good shape to start with thanks to years of retin a and sunblock.
I also have the accelerator. My skin is normal to oily, and I don't like lotions and creams on my face, especially during the summer, so I'm not using the accelerator very much. I understand that my non-compliance with the accelerator may slow the process, but I guess I'll just have to live with that.
I use the serum twice a day. In the morning I follow with sunblock. In the evening I follow with a mixture of retin a and Obagi Clear (4% hydroquinone) about every other evening. Some nights I'll use an anti-acne product over it.
In sum, I like the feel of the serum, but I don't care much for the accelerator because I don't like lotions and creams in general. I haven't noticed any improvements in my skin yet, but I'm going to keep using the serum. Realistically, it takes a while for topical products to make an impact, and I think the science behind the product makes sense.
I would love to get an update from the rest of you. Thanks. |
Elvis, what results are you hoping to see?
I've been using just the serum only once a day for a month and I feel like I am seeing a difference in my skin. In overall brightness, smaller pores and my undereye area looks slightly better. My skin was pretty good to begin with but I think it looks bettter now. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 4:34 am |
I still wonder about the amount of cytokines in the serum and accelerator.
Here is a link to a site where you can find the normal, usual amount of various cytokines in biological fluids (blood, serum and the like):
http://www.copewithcytokines.de/cope.cgi?key=Cytokine%20Concentrations%20in%20Biological%20Fluids
As you can see, the amounts are very, very small (just like hormones, that are also present in picograms/ml).
The ingredient lists of both serum and accelerator state 'cytokines' as first ingredient. Usually, as we all know, water content of a serum or lotion is 50 percent or more, so this would mean that there are several GRAMS of cytokines per vial.
Even if there is a major issue with absorption (as there is with any topically applied medication or substance) the amount cytokines to reach the dermis (and, especially in amounts like this, other tissues and blood) would be totally out of the range of any experimental study to be found on the internet. The beneficial effects of cytokines excreted by stem cells in for instance heart ailments are from the cytokines excreted by the stem cells that are injected - therefore in physiological concentrations.
So I would very much like to hear from dr J why he uses these excessive amounts in his products. Ater all, in the discussions on EGF (a cytokine also excreted by BM stem cells) the effects of large (way much smaller than present in dr J. s products) dose of EGF as detrimental to hair growth and very dangerous for cancerous conditions was discussed.
I have asked dr J if by 'cytokines' he meant conditioned media - with in it a possibly enhanced concentration of cytokines incl. growth factors - but he explicitly stated that was not the case. So I am puzzled. Can dr J. give any link to a study using cytokines in these amounts in vivo? |
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Sun May 13, 2012 7:39 am |
Lotusesther,
You are asking for proprietary information. I would not tell that to anyone were this my formula. They would have to do the leg work to solve the problem on their own penny and time.
According to labeling law, the active component is to be labeled first, regardless of amount.
The study also focused on 3 cytokines injected into the tumor. It was quite successful. Along with the generation of antigen-specific T-cell reactivity. Immune system modulation to clear out the tumor. Elegant solution. Less damaging than laser therapy.
Keliu
| Quote: |
| What have you added to the serum - and why has that improved it? How can you tell? |
Did not add anything TO the serum. My regime is the 2 X a day as recommended.
My choice in C's still go under my SS and my SS is not exactly a lame one either. It is packed with many nice actives.
Added was ultrasound, and the ubergel, is not a wash off gel, it has several actives and a peptide. That gets drilled into my skin with Anteage below it. And stays there. Not washed off...rubbed in. Saturation. Drill micro channels, cavitation at the skin surface interface and so far so good.
How to tell? My forehead has smoothed out to what it looked like in my late 20's. No teeny creases or lines. Other than the expression line above left eyebrow, which is also much smoother.
Scooter gum 2% -40%
HA1%- 23%
Retinol- 1%
Vit E -1%
Lecithin 5 %
Borage -10%
Coffeeberry -1%
H20 13.5%
Cu GHK 3%
Glycerin 2%
Phenoxy 0.5%
Not a lame gel either.
Light tan/ brown emulsion gel not your classic looking ultrasound gel. Easy to do that though without the lecithin and oil.
So ...I am cheating. My skin. Can do what I want with it.
Some days I don't use C derivative under my SS. My SS is packed anyways.
AM: AnteAge Serum and Accelerator + SS
Afternoon, C or Not, SS
PM: AnteAge Serum and Accelerator + Ubergel 1 or 2 and ultrasound.
The smoothing in forehead, was apparent with AnteAge alone, prior to the other jungle juice and silliness. Wanted to jack it up a tad. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun May 13, 2012 7:44 am |
To Bethany....do you feel in any way that your skin is dry because of the serum and/or accelerator?
P.S. I love Tamanu Oil and use it every now and then when I feel my skin needs extra hydration. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 7:51 am |
Dragon,
The labeling issue was discussed earlier in the topic and a link to the FDA guidelines was published. As you can see there, the active - referring to a medical active - has to be stated first, with mention of the percentage.
What we would call 'actives' because of their function, like retinol, are not medicines and therefore can be stated the same as any other ingredient. Hence it's always so hard to tell if there is any good percentage of, say, retinol or niacinamide in a product.
I am frankly surprised that you, with all your experience in diy and formulating, do not know this. Especially since these guidelines were posted in this very topic. And dr J when asked confirmed that cytokines are the main ingredient, and because of that on top in the list. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 8:14 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
How to tell? My forehead has smoothed out to what it looked like in my late 20's. |
And this has happened in 1 months time? |
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Sun May 13, 2012 8:29 am |
| Quote: |
| I am frankly surprised that you, with all your experience in diy and formulating, do not know this. Especially since these guidelines were posted in this very topic. And dr J when asked confirmed that cytokines are the main ingredient, and because of that on top in the list. |
No need to be surprised. I am not a cosmetic formulator nor do I sell or make cosmetics for anyone. Why would I need to know that? I don't need to..I could care less. It only matters when it goes on My skin, and the question you are asking requires details of every specific cytokine. It is a mix. That is the proprietory information, not unlike Naticide, as it is a natural compound or set of compounds and that is sold as a preservative and they will NOT give that information out, because than anyone can copy it.
On the other forum, DrJ was quite forth right about the process and practically gave away the vast majority of what they have done....but not that. And...neither would I.
That's the expertise, the testing and the whole ball of wax, time and money invested in it that you would have to do yourself if you want to know the answer to the question. Nothing stops you from solving the problem yourself.
Rileygirl
| Quote: |
| And this has happened in 1 months time? |
I don't have deep etched wrinkles. Tiny fine lines, in the mirror peering close things...they are not there now. Was it the Hyaluronic acid in the mix? The B5? Or the cytokines? Unknown. I don't use much HA in my mixes. No reason other than I don't. But 0.1% HA can show some nice effects as well. Hydration. Looks like...you guessed it = reduction in wrinkle profile.
I am a lousy labrat. My skin is good, but now it's a tad nicer, and I am loathe to admit...it may be the cytokines. However, it may not.
As far as being satisfied with this product? Absolutely. Bloody pricey....but excellent. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun May 13, 2012 8:42 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
(...) and the question you are asking requires details of every specific cytokine. It is a mix. That is the proprietory information, not unlike Naticide, as it is a natural compound or set of compounds and that is sold as a preservative and they will NOT give that information out, because than anyone can copy it.
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No I did NOT ask which cytokines. I asked 'cytokines' in general, as stated on the ingredient list.
Growth factors and factors involved in inflammatory processes are a natural part of that mix. Growth factors are used in tiny amounts. That is where I am surprised - the amount of cytokines, if the ingredient list is correct, in one bottle of serum or accelerator are about the amount a whole crowd of people would produce. To put that kind of concentration on skin sounds dangerous to me - not to mention improbable, considering what growth factors do to the wool of sheep in waaaayyyyy lesser amounts. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 9:35 am |
Ok,
For example:
INGREDIENTS
Purified Water, Aloe Extract, GHK-Cu Copper Tripeptide, Licorice, Collagen, Sea Kelp Bioferment, Bifida Ferment Lysate, Beta-Glucan, EGF (Epidermal Growth Factor), Leuconostoc/Radish Root (natural preservative).
or this :
INGREDIENTS
GHK-Cu Copper Tripeptide, Purified Water, Aloe Extract, Licorice, Collagen, Sea Kelp Bioferment, Bifida Ferment Lysate, Beta-Glucan, EGF (Epidermal Growth Factor), Leuconostoc/Radish Root (natural preservative).
They don't have to tell you anything if they don't want to. And...they don't.
If you feel uncomfortable about something for any reason whatsoever, don't use it. Period. Problem solved. |
_________________
If you make, first do no harm, your Law, you will never strike the first blow and will be known as a man of peace who can fight like ten tigers, a Human in the act of Being. There is no greater rank than this. Ashida Kim on War.~Cellese~AnteAge Serum and Accelerator, DermaRoller ,MyFawnie AA2G serum, KNN G ForceUltrasound., SEA, ChrySun 25% ZnO |
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Sun May 13, 2012 9:59 am |
| DragoN wrote: |
As far as being satisfied with this product? Absolutely. Bloody pricey....but excellent. |
Thank you, Dragon. I am curious if you will continue to use the AnteAGE or go back to your own DIY formulas? |
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Sun May 13, 2012 10:04 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
Dragon,
The labeling issue was discussed earlier in the topic and a link to the FDA guidelines was published. As you can see there, the active - referring to a medical active - has to be stated first, with mention of the percentage.
What we would call 'actives' because of their function, like retinol, are not medicines and therefore can be stated the same as any other ingredient. Hence it's always so hard to tell if there is any good percentage of, say, retinol or niacinamide in a product.
I am frankly surprised that you, with all your experience in diy and formulating, do not know this. Especially since these guidelines were posted in this very topic. And dr J when asked confirmed that cytokines are the main ingredient, and because of that on top in the list. |
Lotusester,
You might find this part of the FDA regulations concerning about any cosmetics or skin care you purchase!
Can FDA inspect cosmetic manufacturers?
FDA can and does inspect cosmetic manufacturing facilities to assure cosmetic product safety and determine whether cosmetics are adulterated or misbranded under the FD&C Act or FPLA.
Does FDA test cosmetics?
The FD&C Act does not subject cosmetics to FDA premarket approval in order to be marketed legally. However, FDA collects samples for examination and analysis as part of its plant inspections, import inspections, and follow-up to complaints of adverse reactions. FDA may also conduct research on cosmetic products and ingredients to address safety concerns.
The agency does not function as a private testing laboratory, and in order to avoid even the perception of conflict of interest, does not recommend private laboratories to consumers or manufacturers for sample analysis. Testing laboratories are listed in your telephone directory.
Must cosmetic manufacturers register with FDA?
Manufacturers are not required to register their cosmetic establishments, file data on ingredients, or report cosmetic-related injuries to FDA. However, companies are encouraged to register their establishments and file Cosmetic Product Ingredient Statements with FDA's Voluntary Cosmetic Registration Program (VCRP).
http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/ucm074162.htm?utm_campaign=Google2&utm_source=fdaSearch&utm_medium=website&utm_term=order%20of%20ingredients%20in%20cosmetics&utm_content=1 |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun May 13, 2012 10:12 am |
| Ah. So all reference to FDA guidelines is really b.s. since there is no way to tell whether or not a company is registered there and complies. Good to know. I'm from the over-regulated EU. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 10:17 am |
| Lotusesther wrote: |
| Ah. So all reference to FDA guidelines is really b.s. since there is no way to tell whether or not a company is registered there and complies. Good to know. I'm from the over-regulated EU. |
LOL. Nothing like the fine print is there, I did a bit more digging and found the information posted above!  |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun May 13, 2012 10:24 am |
DrJ
I am from over regulated EU to. Can you tell me if it is likely that your product will eventually be available in the UK. If so any idea on the time frame. I appreciate you may have to ask another department in your company. As the brains behind the outfit I am sure you don't deal with the distribution. TY.
I apologise if this has been asked/answered before. I have actually read the whole thread but it is so full of snidey comments, one upmanship and scientific bumpf (to me anyway)that I cannot remember what has been said on this subject. |
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50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 10:36 am |
| loopylori wrote: |
DrJ
I am from over regulated EU to. Can you tell me if it is likely that your product will eventually be available in the UK. If so any idea on the time frame. I appreciate you may have to ask another department in your company. As the brains behind the outfit I am sure you don't deal with the distribution. TY.
I apologise if this has been asked/answered before. I have actually read the whole thread but it is so full of snidey comments, one upmanship and scientific bumpf (to me anyway)that I cannot remember what has been said on this subject. |
I sincerely apologise to you if your referring to any posts from yesterday, I was trying to merely get an answer from Dr. J and never meant to create such a stir over a simple question. |
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Sun May 13, 2012 10:39 am |
| Tiny wrote: |
| loopylori wrote: |
DrJ
I am from over regulated EU to. Can you tell me if it is likely that your product will eventually be available in the UK. If so any idea on the time frame. I appreciate you may have to ask another department in your company. As the brains behind the outfit I am sure you don't deal with the distribution. TY.
I apologise if this has been asked/answered before. I have actually read the whole thread but it is so full of snidey comments, one upmanship and scientific bumpf (to me anyway)that I cannot remember what has been said on this subject. |
I sincerely apologise to you if your referring to any posts from yesterday, I was trying to merely get an answer from Dr. J and never meant to create such a stir over a simple question. |
Tiny...Tiny....Tiny the answer to that is no, I did not mean you. I read your post for what it was, a genuine question. |
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50, happy reluma user started 16.6.12 original formula. PMD user. started LouLou's ageless regime. |
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