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Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:36 pm  |
This is the blurb on the SBC gels:
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Professional, water-based skin care gels, developed by SBC with natural ingredients. These are suitable for all skin types. Ideal for a range of beauty, holistic and sports therapy treatments. SBC gels are non-oily and are easily absorbed leaving no residue, plus they will not stain clothing or bedding. All gels are ionized (ampheric i.e. contain both + and - ions).
http://www.onlynature.co.uk/shop/SBC.html |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:55 pm |
Just an FYI that I can't recommend the Burnout Skin Fix, though it may work for others. I started out my treatment using the Fyola Cleansing/Massaging Gel (not the Fyola Skin Food/Toner) which has not caused me any skin issues. I then added the Skin Fix when the Fyola gel began to dry. Unfortunately, the Skin Fix immediately started burning...kind of like a peppermint feeling, but not in a good way. This may work fine for people that don't have sensitive skin, but it is definitely not working for me with the Merbe.
I am going to try it with the BioWave in hopes that I can use it with something with lower penetration. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:21 am |
Hi!
Did my new treatment idea yesterday and really liked it. Per your suggestions I stayed on Mode #2.
First - put on the Pjur gel (when needed lightly spritzed it with a Zia water based spray that I diluted with more water). Did face and neck for 5 minutes.
Rinsed off gel, lightly applied my Anti-aging Serum waited a few minutes for it to sink in, spritzed that and went over face and neck for another 3 minutes or so. And then left the serum on for the rest of the day.
Worked great!
Here are some answers from the Rex Kara customer service woman regarding why the LED light flashes and I also asked about using this on the lips >
"1) Our device is designed for Skin care use to get optimal results. Although there are users who massage lips with mode 2 of our device to soften lips and lessen fine lines, the manufacturer does not have lab test result to support the performance.
2) Because IR is invisible to human eyes, the red light is a design to notify users that the IR is on, and flashing red light is to distinguish between the two modes."
I'm really liking this device so far. I'm seeing definite improvements. I have a feeling that this is like the Quasar. With that device you see immediate temporary plumping of the skin within the first 4 months, and from 6 months onward the skin is started to make more collagen, skin is firming up and improvements are of a longer nature!
Today I get the Le Mieux gel and will report back! |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:26 am |
What do you guys think of this US gel?
It says actives can be added to it, too.
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| The gel can be enriched by aqueous actives (extracts and solutions). |
Edited to add:The gel is spread on the skin before the ultrasonic treatment.
Aqueous active agent concentrates may either be applied before the ultrasound gel or blended with the gel.
Also oily active agent concentrates like grape seed or rose hip oil (essential fatty acids) may be used if they are first mixed with liposomes and nanoparticles and then blended with ultrasound gel.
Of course mixtures of the base gel with actives can also be applied without ultrasound. Then the mixtures correspond to high value face care gels.
http://www.dermaviduals.com/english/products/dermaviduals-cabinet/ultrasound-gel.html |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:39 am |
| foxe wrote: |
What do you guys think of this US gel?
It says actives can be added to it, too.
| Quote: |
| The gel can be enriched by aqueous actives (extracts and solutions). |
Edited to add:The gel is spread on the skin before the ultrasonic treatment.
Aqueous active agent concentrates may either be applied before the ultrasound gel or blended with the gel.
Also oily active agent concentrates like grape seed or rose hip oil (essential fatty acids) may be used if they are first mixed with liposomes and nanoparticles and then blended with ultrasound gel.
Of course mixtures of the base gel with actives can also be applied without ultrasound. Then the mixtures correspond to high value face care gels.
http://www.dermaviduals.com/english/products/dermaviduals-cabinet/ultrasound-gel.html |
I have been in contact with these people for a few weeks. Their US gel is a simple gel, I have the ingredient list. They don't promote US. They feel that their products on there own are created to be absorbed very deeply without any devices. They only created the US gel because a few of their customers use it - along with their anti-aging serums. They are based in Germany. I have the contact info for a rep of theirs in the USA but have had a hard time reaching her.
The man who've I've been communicating with is wonderful, brilliant! But their focus is on their serums - not US gel. |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:39 am |
FYI - I am LOVING what the RK is doing for my neck!
For this reason alone I can say that at this point - this is a keeper for me! 
Just want to add - ionizing a gel, if it can be/is done, is a new procedure. I'm not messing around with that. I'm happy with ingredients I know have been around for awhile and are working for me. That's just IMO. |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:59 am |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
I have been in contact with these people for a few weeks. Their US gel is a simple gel, I have the ingredient list. They don't promote US. They feel that their products on there own are created to be absorbed very deeply without any devices. They only created the US gel because a few of their customers use it - along with their anti-aging serums. They are based in Germany. I have the contact info for a rep of theirs in the USA but have had a hard time reaching her.
The man who've I've been communicating with is wonderful, brilliant! But their focus is on their serums - not US gel. |
I'm glad to hear you've been in contact with them. I hope you continue trying to contact the US rep. This gel does look nice and it'd be great to have a source for them here in the states.
You're right about them concentrating on their own serums - they have a TON of them! |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:00 am |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
FYI - I am LOVING what the RK is doing for my neck!
For this reason alone I can say that at this point - this is a keeper for me! |
Boy - it's getting harder and harder for me to resist buying one of these devices at this point. (But I will keep on trying - for a while, at least.  ) |
_________________
early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:07 am |
Wait! I want to give this a solid few weeks before recommending anyone else purchase. I hate wasting money - how many times have we all done that? A few more weeks isn't long -
That being said - it's exciting to see this difference. I used galvanic years ago and saw really nice firming - but was too lazy to continue the protocol. And I love my Quasar LED. This device is so easy and doable. The RK or Sqoom, etc., is something that I know I can commit to using. I've used my LED for 2 years.
The ingredients in their gel from Germany, IMO, aren't worth making a huge effort to get. (The serums might be though!) Their main goal for their gel was SAFETY. They are very aware of safety when it comes to the US and I like that! They also do not sell to the public. So again IMO look for a safe gel, check all ingredients with the link to EWG that I shared earlier.
Here is their gel > Aqua (Water) * Glycerin * Pentylene Glycol * Sorbitol * Sodium Carbomer * Xanthan Gum |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:52 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
Here are some answers from the Rex Kara customer service woman regarding why the LED light flashes and I also asked about using this on the lips >
2) Because IR is invisible to human eyes, the red light is a design to notify users that the IR is on, and flashing red light is to distinguish between the two modes."
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Hi JaeBlue, thanks for the information. I guess that means the blinking red lights are just for show. The lights are one of the reasons I hesitated to get the RK. But, we cant't be sure if they are useful to the treatment or not. Sometimes, I wish I had gotten the Merbe, it seems to have more of a variety of function combinations. But, like the lights, I don't know if they would make that big of a difference. Well, the RK is pretty, that does count for something doesn't it.
I really like the gel that came with the RK.
I'm happy you're seeing improvements. Take Care. |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:56 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
Hi JaeBlue, thanks for the information. I guess that means the blinking red lights are just for show. The lights are one of the reasons I hesitated to get the RK. Like you said, they don't seem to be very useful. But, we really don't know that for sure. Sometimes, I wish I had gotten the Merbe, it seems to have more of a variety of function combinations. But, like the lights, I don't know if that is helpful. Well, the RK is pretty, that does count for something doesn't it.
I really like the gel that came with the RK.
I'm happy you're seeing improvements. Take Care. |
I actually now am more impressed with the LED lights after the explanation, not less. The fact that they remain on, and aren't just blinking is good!
What more does the Merbe offer?
I'm really happy with the RK! In every way, so far.
I really appreciate that it is 1.7 MHz. I was not ready to use a 1 MHz on my face. No. |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:31 pm |
| What is your take away from that? Everyone? |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:30 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
I really appreciate that it is 1.7 MHz. I was not ready to use a 1 MHz on my face. No. |
I agree with you about the 1.7 MHz. It was one of the main features that influenced my decision to purchase. |
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Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:01 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
| What is your take away from that? Everyone? |
The quotes below are some of the things that caught my attention. I hadn't heard about sound pressure and it make sense why water wouldn't not be good to use alone as a media.
The mention of preservatives used in regular diagnostic ultrasound gel and what preservatives to stay away from was good to read about.
Being able to use xantham gum, glycerin, glycols and sugar alcohols and not have any preservatives and still have a long shelf life was interesting.
"Closely related to the energy of ultrasound waves is the sound pressure: the sound wave periodically generates low pressure and high pressure. Very low pressure may cause gas bubbles (cavitation) in the tissue and subsequently also lead to tissue damage. That is the reason why threshold values have been set up for the sound pressure which is measured in Pa (Pascal). Sound pressures for diagnostic applications in the tissue usually are below 0.5"
"In order to avoid intense sound reflections at the borderlines between ultrasonic head and skin resulting from air pockets, it is necessary to use ultrasonic media. They provide the optimal contact between ultrasonic head and skin. Ultrasonic media must be absolutely free of air bubbles in order to ensure the perfect sound transmission. Liquids like water and alcohols basically are suitable media however rather inappropriate with regard to their volatility and low viscosity. That is why specific gels have been developed."
"Ultrasound gels used for diagnostic purposes are formulated for a short stay on the skin and hence belong to the group of medical products with "rinse off characteristics". Due to their high water content they require adequate preservation which almost exclusively is achieved with highly effective preservatives like methyl dibromo glutaronitrile or abbreviated MDGN (1,2-Dibromo-2,4-dicyanobutane). Since its introduction MDGN has developed into one of the strongest contact allergens. Therefore it has been down-rated for the use in "rinse off products" in the Cosmetic Decree (KVO) which is not applicable for medical products though, and in 2007 it was completely removed from the list of allowed preservatives. These compounds are inappropriate as gliding gels for both non medical applications and cosmetic treatments because they are actually used as "leave on products".
"The last mentioned ingredients enable the formulation of gels that are free of preservatives and still have a long shelf life"
http://www.dermaviduals.com/english/publications/products/ultrasound-gels-effects-compositions-applications.html |
_________________
Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:42 am |
I agree, they have really impressive research on their site!
I would like to get their US gel but it hasn't been easy to order as they don't sell to the public and are based in Germany. They are extremely careful and strict about not using toxic ingredients, I appreciate that.
Got the "Le Mieux 02 Calming Gel" today! |
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:05 am |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
Got the "Le Mieux 02 Calming Gel" today! |
Let me know what you think about it after using the calming gel for awhile. I am liking their products right now. The calming gel stayed "wetter" longer then some of the other products I tried so I didn't have to wet it down as often. I do tend to use a lot of it though but at least it is pretty cheap. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:20 pm |
I find that I need to spritz almost everything and am starting to wonder if I can just use this in the long run? It gets a great safety rating on EWG/Skin Deep.
Zia Sea Tonic & Aloe Toner
Has water, aloe, glycerin, more good ingredients and is paraben free. For now, I diluted it with more water but am thinking to eventually to use full strength - ? One day at a time.
Love the Calming Gel and really like knowing that the ingredient list is so good. |
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:59 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
I find that I need to spritz almost everything and am starting to wonder if I can just use this in the long run? It gets a great safety rating on EWG/Skin Deep.
Zia Sea Tonic & Aloe Toner
Has water, aloe, glycerin, more good ingredients and is paraben free. For now, I diluted it with more water but am thinking to eventually to use full strength |
Hi Jae, I don't know what kind of consistency the toner is but if it is water like it might not be the best media for sound reflections. See the quote below from the dermaviduals article listed a few post above.
"Liquids like water and alcohols basically are suitable media however rather inappropriate with regard to their volatility and low viscosity. That is why specific gels have been developed." |
_________________
Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:41 pm |
| CookieD wrote: |
"Liquids like water and alcohols basically are suitable media however rather inappropriate with regard to their volatility and low viscosity. That is why specific gels have been developed." |
I'm not understanding this. Microcurrent can be used with water - water is conductive. Most conductive gels are water based. But if the "volatility" aspect is due to bubbles - that just seems a bit over-the-top to me. But then, what do I know!
I'm still confused over the ionisation of gels too as some are clearly labeled ionised +/-. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:44 pm |
This article helped me to better understand how negative and positive ions work. I'm still trying to figure out if the serums or gels can be or need to be charged.
This is an article by Dr. Fernandes regarding iontophoresis.
Not sure if this has been posted already. Sorry if it has.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/documents/0000/0072/Treating_Damaged_Skin.pdf
From the beginning of the article.
"Skin care therapists have used galvanic currents to treat skin for about 70 years
so what can be new? First activate the skin on negative current, then massage and finally soothe the skin
on positive for a refreshed appearance. Right? No! Wrong!
Of course these ideas are wrong because they ignore the basic scientific principles. First of all one has to understand that iontophoresis will only occur if the targeted active chemicals have an electrical charge (i.e. they are ions carrying either a positive or negative electrical charge, or will ionise with electricity). When a low intensity galvanic current is applied to a molecule that can dissociate into a positive ion (cation) and a negative ion (anion), then it dissociates
more readily in the presence of water and salts. Negative ions move towards the positive pole, and positive ions move towards the negative pole. As a result ions can be carried to deeper layers of the skin and concentrated there."
Here is more interesting information.
"There are some very important rules that have to be followed when doing iontophoresis."
"The selected molecule must be ionised into positive and negative components and be
maintained as ions during the treatment. You cannot iontophorese chemicals that are
not ionised."
"It is possible, maybe even highly desirable to treat skin with only one polarity. It is
not necessary to treat the skin with the opposite current after
doing the active treatment. If you do that then you will reverse the beneficial effects of the active treatment!"
This is also a very important point taken from the article.
"Iontophoresis when correctly used is proving to a be a powerful tool. However, it does have
problems. First of all it can only be used on molecules that can be ionised. Not all molecules can be ionised at physiological levels and some cannot be ionised."
The part below makes a galvanic treatment seem like there are too many variables for an amateur like me to perform correctly.
"Modern iontophoresis has been used to minimise wrinkles, to eliminate pigment blemishes, soften scars and normalise skin. However, this only happens when the gels used contain the right ingredients, at the right pH, with the right concentration, treated with the correct current properties for the correct amount of time. Change only one of these important points and the treatment becomes a simple complex manipulation of skin and the clients purse." |
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:51 pm |
Thanks for that info! This is from above:
You cannot iontophorese chemicals that are
not ionised.
Doesn't that mean that the topical can be ionised? When I used my UP5 device the instructions said that you must use ionised gels with the ion programme. That is why I purchased the SBC Gels which are advertised as ionised ampheric +/- (whatever that means). I've tried to search "ampheric" but, as yet, I'm not enlightened. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:17 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| CookieD wrote: |
"Liquids like water and alcohols basically are suitable media however rather inappropriate with regard to their volatility and low viscosity. That is why specific gels have been developed." |
I'm not understanding this. Microcurrent can be used with water - water is conductive. Most conductive gels are water based. But if the "volatility" aspect is due to bubbles - that just seems a bit over-the-top to me. But then, what do I know! |
Water is conductive but ultrasound is not the same as microcurrent. Ultrasound is acoustic (sound) energy in the form of waves. I think the thickness of a gel vs water allows these sound waves to be able to penetrate the skin and reach deeper layers were water would not. |
_________________
Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:25 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
Thanks for that info! This is from above:
You cannot iontophorese chemicals that are
not ionised.
Doesn't that mean that the topical can be ionised? When I used my UP5 device the instructions said that you must use ionised gels with the ion programme. That is why I purchased the SBC Gels which are advertised as ionised ampheric +/- (whatever that means). I've tried to search "ampheric" but, as yet, I'm not enlightened. |
Wow, you are all amazingly thorough people, which makes me learn more on skin care. I am pretty familiar with drug transdermal technologies and it is fantastic to see that they can be applied to skin care.
Keliu, ampheric refers to ion-pairing, a technique used to increase skin penetration capabilities. This type of mixture works on its own, without any microcurrent.
"Ionised drugs do not readily permeate across human skin,indeed their permeation coefficient has been estimated to be approximately 104 times smaller than for the respective noncharged
species [59]. The ion-pair strategy involves adding oppositely charged species to a charged drug, forming an ion-pair in which the charges are neutralised. The pair of oppositely charged ions is held together by Coulomb attraction
without formation of a covalent bond [60]. The ion-pair should partition and diffuse through the stratum corneum, before dissociating in the viable epidermis, thereby releasing the active drug."
benthamscience.com/open/toddj/articles/V001/36TODDJ.pdf
The same article explains that neutrally charged molecules can be delivered through the skin, so not always all the ingredients need to be ionized.
"Importantly, iontophoresis is not only
reserved for charged drugs. Delivery of small neutral molecules may also be enhanced through electroosmosis. At pH values above 4, the skin is negatively charged, due to ionisation of carboxylic acid groups within the membrane. Positively charged ions, such as Na+, are more easily transported, as they attempt to neutralise the charge in the skin, hence
there is a flow of Na+ to the cathode [254]. Owing to a net build up of NaCl at the cathodal compartment, osmotic flow of water is induced from the anode to the cathode. It is this
net flow of water that facilitates transfer of neutral molecules across the skin."
Hope it is helpful.
Light |
_________________
52 years, sagging sucks |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:46 am |
| CookieD wrote: |
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| "Liquids like water and alcohols basically are suitable media however rather inappropriate with regard to their volatility and low viscosity. That is why specific gels have been developed." |
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I think what they mean is that water and alcohol will dry or evaporate very quickly.
Regarding ionised products I am as confused as Keliu is. I have read other articles stating that basically every water-based serum can be used with galvanic because it is the current that will "ionise" the ingredients. |
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