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Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:54 am  |
| light123 wrote: |
Keliu, ampheric refers to ion-pairing, a technique used to increase skin penetration capabilities. This type of mixture works on its own, without any microcurrent.
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Thank you for this information.
This would definitely seem to indicate that solutions can indeed be ionised. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:25 am |
Not only that, some solutions are naturally ionized, like hyaluronic acid solution, becude the HA molecule is negatively charged, so the solution will be "- ioinised".
Light |
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52 years, sagging sucks |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:33 am |
| light123 wrote: |
Not only that, some solutions are naturally ionized, like hyaluronic acid solution, becude the HA molecule is negatively charged, so the solution will be "- ioinised".
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Oh, you're a mine of information - fantastic! I guess that's why HA is favoured in these gels.
Do you have an opinion on the preference for fragmented HA? |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:53 am |
This is a tough question  and I am still to come up to a conclusion for myself.
All scientific articles point towards the direction that LM HA, especially below 20 kDa, are all inflammatory, HA with a MW lower than 500 kDa do prevent the natural formation of HA by the fibroblasts, while > 500 kDa HA induces the production of natural HA.
That of course only matters if such a big molecule can be delivered to epidermis or dermis, still searching for evidences with other molecules of similar molecular weight. So this search is in progress...
I am referring to iontophoresis here, as high frequency ultrasound, i.e. above 1 MHz can deliver substances limited to <1,000 Da. Well, Ascorbic acid fits into that limit.
Light |
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52 years, sagging sucks |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:28 pm |
Let me know when all of your Wiz-Kids come to a conclusion on what are the best products to use - I'm ready to hear! The Zia has some water but also a nice amount of glycerin and aloe. Really nice ingredients.
For me - I am definitely, 100%, seeing improvements! Wild. Never expected it this early but at almost two weeks - I assume that this is just a temporary plumping effect and wonder if eventually collagen will get rebuilt or what?
My question here is the same one that I have with my LED and have never gotten an answer for >
I wish that they would tell us exactly what results each mode gets and how to "sculpt" a face. For instance - plump the cheek area while firming the chin and jaw line. Lift the forehead but then firm the eyelids.
You know? It would make it so much easier to devise a program. Because what I need on my chin area - slight marionette lines - is different than what I would like for my cheeks?
Any ideas??? |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:41 am |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
Let me know when all of your Wiz-Kids come to a conclusion on what are the best products to use - I'm ready to hear! The Zia has some water but also a nice amount of glycerin and aloe. Really nice ingredients.
For me - I am definitely, 100%, seeing improvements! Wild. Never expected it this early but at almost two weeks - I assume that this is just a temporary plumping effect and wonder if eventually collagen will get rebuilt or what?
My question here is the same one that I have with my LED and have never gotten an answer for >
I wish that they would tell us exactly what results each mode gets and how to "sculpt" a face. For instance - plump the cheek area while firming the chin and jaw line. Lift the forehead but then firm the eyelids.
You know? It would make it so much easier to devise a program. Because what I need on my chin area - slight marionette lines - is different than what I would like for my cheeks?
Any ideas??? |
I think there are a few things to keep in mind with these ultrasound + galvanic devices:
Topicals - penetrating your own topicals is great, but the impressive line reduction results seen by Karenlee with her Sqoom are in part a result of driving HA down to the deeper levels of the skin to plump things up. (This should address your plumping/firming questions). My personal plan is to use the Sqoom gels sparingly, and to top them off with another gel containing HA (the Fyola cleansing/massage gel). I will also use my regular topical serums with the Fyola gel over them to assist with penetration.
Sculpting - I think this is where the lift aspect of the programs come in. I am using Massage and Lift everywhere, but I do focus the majority Lifting program time a bit more heavily on the areas where I need the lift, and am definitely seeing results that way. I don't think you need a complicated program...just intuitively use the Lift program where you need it, and use strokes that mimic the lift you want to accomplish. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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havana8
Moderator
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:07 am |
| packratmack wrote: |
I have been looking all over the internet for the Le Mieux Gel. The only places I found it for sale require you to call to order it. |
Not sure if this will help you, packratmack, but it looks like Joella carries some or maybe all (?) of the Le Mieux line: http://www.karinherzog-jmilan.com/Le-Mieux-Skin-Care_bymfg_105-0-1.html |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:46 pm |
HI ALL,
My results after 2 weeks are impressive. I don't think you could drag this thing out of my hands now! 
My routine - I use the Le Mieux gel and go over face and neck 5 minutes with #2 which is all 3 (LED, US, Galvanic). Then I go to specific areas that need tightening or lifting a few minutes longer. Like: jawline.
Then wash off the gel and apply a great anti-aging serum and go back over all areas for a much shorter length of time to penetrate the serum. Spritz with Zia Toner if I need more slip. Leave on for rest of the day.
Bethany, thank you for your help! You posted that it takes how long for serum penetration? Was it 2 seconds? Can you repeat that info?
I am using Massage and Lift everywhere, but I do focus the majority Lifting program time a bit more heavily on the areas where I need the lift, and am definitely seeing results that way.
Which mode on the Sqoom is Lifting? On the RK that is Galvanic + Infrared (LED). Not US. Same?
Firming for RK is #4 - US only.
Which areas are you focusing on lifting?
The Le Mieux gel has HA and so does the serum I'm using.
Thank you Havana for the link. LOVE - LOVE - LOVE the 02 Calming Gel (made for Ultrasound) by Le Mieux. Will be buying much more!!! |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:05 pm |
Hi Jae Blue,
Great to hear you are getting excellent results!
Are you seeing a reduction in fine lines as well as lifting/firming?
I am still undecided as to which device to purchase -(it's between the Merbe & the Beauly-Si - Slim) but need a bit more data before I make a decision.
As far as I can tell the Sqoom lifting function (if identical to the old Fyola/Merbe) is Galvanic (both + & - ions alternating) and US.
Curious what anti-aging serum you are using with the RK? |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:24 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
| Bethany, thank you for your help! You posted that it takes how long for serum penetration? Was it 2 seconds? Can you repeat that info? |
A video I saw showed them holding the device in one place for 2 seconds for the Nutrition (penetration) mode. But the Sqoom manual just says to do slow circles.
| JaeBlue wrote: |
Which mode on the Sqoom is Lifting? On the RK that is Galvanic + Infrared (LED). Not US. Same? |
There is a Lifting mode on the Sqoom, and it is recommended that you use both galvanic and ultrasound combined at a Medium intensity level.
Here are all the modes for the Sqoom M1 and M2...it was interesting to see that they recommend some different programs around the eyes on the M2. I am going to have to look into that further.
| Quote: |
What is the difference between the individual SQOOM programmes?
SQOOM M1 offers a total of six programmes:
C (Cleansing) is used for the skin-deep cleaning and is only applied with cleanserGel, which was specially developed for this purpose.
M (Massage) executes a deeply effective massage. The tissue is strengthened by an optimised stimulation of the blood circulation, and it is also perfectly prepared for the following programmes.
N (Nutrition) delivers an 80% push and 20% pull on the skin with the primary aim of drawing active ingredients deep inside the skin.
L (Lifting) is a slightly stronger programme that works to reduce the small, visible wrinkles at the skin’s surface. A power programme for fast and short term success.
W (Whitening) has the priority of lightening the skin. This physical tuning is mainly applied to treat liver spots or age spots successfully in combination with our specially developed DeSpot Gel, and against acne in combination with SQOOM AK Gels.
W (Wrinkle Care) is our most gentle programme, especially used for sensitive skin and for babies and infants. Also for the treatment of sensitive and stressed skin during the first few treatments.
SQOOM M2 offers a total of seven programmes:
C (Cleansing) is used for the skin-deep cleaning and is only applied with the cleanserGel, which was specially developed for this purpose.
M (Massage) executes a deeply effective massage. The tissue is strengthened by an optimised stimulation of the blood circulation, and it is also perfectly prepared for the following programmes.
L (Lifting) is a slightly stronger programme that works to reduce the small, visible wrinkles at the skin’s surface. A power programme for fast and short term success.
W (Whitening) has the priority of lightening the skin. This physical tuning is mainly applied to treat liver spots or age spots successfully in combination with our specially developed DeSpot Gel, and against acne in combination with SQOOM AK Gels.
S (Sono / Ultrasound) provides ultrasound only without iontophoresis, for booster application.
I blue (Iontophoresis) especially for cleansing around your eyes.
I green (Iontophoresis) especially for applications around your eyes.
http://www.sqoom.com/en/meta/faq/ |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:42 pm |
| cabrita wrote: |
Hi Jae Blue,
Great to hear you are getting excellent results!
Are you seeing a reduction in fine lines as well as lifting/firming?
I am still undecided as to which device to purchase -(it's between the Merbe & the Beauly-Si - Slim) but need a bit more data before I make a decision.
As far as I can tell the Sqoom lifting function (if identical to the old Fyola/Merbe) is Galvanic (both + & - ions alternating) and US.
Curious what anti-aging serum you are using with the RK? |
Hi Cabrita,
Have you found a place that sells the Beauly-Si Slim and would you mind posting a link? Thanks. |
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48 years old. Very acne prone. Staples: Retin-A/Tazorac and C serum. |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:00 pm |
Cross posting from the Sqoom thread.
Here is a list of all the DIY sites that sell HA and the weights of the HA they sell. If anyone knows any others fell free to add to the list.
Lotion Crafters
HA- 1000kDA
SLMW HA- <50kDA (avg. batch is 17kDA)
ULMW HA- 3-5 kDA
Garden of Wisdom
HA- 1000 kDA
BulkActives
HA- 1,320 kDA
ULMW- 5kDA
Making Cosmetics
HA- 800-1200 kDA
SLMW- <50kDa
SkinActives
HA- doesn't state but says by definition molecular weight of HA is in the millions
Skin Essential Actives
HA- 1500kDa
SLMW- .10x10-6 I take this to mean to the power of 6 which would make it 100kDa
Sell HA but don't state the molecular weight
Ingredients to die for
The Personal formulator |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:00 pm |
Bethany,
But what functions are in each of all of these program modes?
I don't see that information?
Is one just US. Another US + LED? What are they?
Cabrita, to be honest I don't have a lot of wrinkles. Some laugh lines that I don't mind. I do have a few lip lines that bug me. Both of those seem to be reducing.
I mainly am using this for firming. Areas that bother me mainly from lips down to neck. Small lip lines, marionette lines (not too deep but there) and some looseness on jaw and under neck. That is what I'm looking at.
I will figure out in a week or so how to post some photos without my identity being out there!!! I've been very diligent to take photos. It's obvious.
BUT I CAUTION EVERYONE - do your homework. And I advise only buy a product you can return and that has a warranty. That's just smart, right? |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:03 pm |
OH, I'm using the Quasar Anti-Aging Serum!
They confirmed that it's safe for US. I also use this with my LED.
Purified Water, Yeast Extract (Phyto Hyaluronic Acid 10%) Vegetable Glycerine, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Argireline, Silk Amino Acid, Saccharomyces Copper Ferment, PEG -40 Castor Oil, Lactic Acid, Centella Asiatica (Gotu Kola) Extract, Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Extract, Camellia Sinensis Leaf (Green Tea) Extract, Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate (Vitamin C), Vitamin E Acetate, Ubiquinone (Co-Enzyme Q10), Phenoxyethanol (And) Caprylyl Glycol (And) Sorbic Acid |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:24 pm |
| Thanks Cabrita! |
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48 years old. Very acne prone. Staples: Retin-A/Tazorac and C serum. |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:27 pm |
Thank you havana8. I might call and see if I can order.
"Le Mieux Products are for JoElla Milan Enterprises existing clients only. Please call to order 866 568-8858 or pick up at studio ( Call first)" |
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havana8
Moderator
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 3449
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:31 pm |
| packratmack wrote: |
Thank you havana8. You have to call to order, but it may be worth a try.
"Le Mieux Products are for JoElla Milan Enterprises existing clients only. Please call to order 866 568-8858 or pick up at studio ( Call first)" |
packratmack, if you log into your existing account first and then add to your cart, it seems to work. HTHs!
BTW, has anyone been able to post the ingredient deck for the Le Mieux O2 Calming Gel? or did I miss it somewhere? |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:40 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
| BTW, has anyone been able to post the ingredient deck for the Le Mieux O2 Calming Gel? or did I miss it somewhere? |
I did? Somewhere I'm losing track. It's wonderful!!
Hang on >
Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Water, Orange Blossom Floral Water, Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Extract, Hyaluronic Acid, Avena Sativa (Oat) Extract, White Tea Extract, Allantoin, German Chamomile, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Extract, Rhodiola Rosea (Golden Root) Extract, Argania Spinosa Leaf Extract, Cucumber Extract, Pyrus Malus (Apple) Extract, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice (Aloe Vera), Comfrey Extract, Carrageenan (Red Seaweed), Daucus Carota (Carrot) Seed Extract, French Clary Sage Extract, Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Vaccinium Myrtyllus (Bilberry) Extract, Pentylene Glycol, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Oil |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:41 pm |
| havana8 wrote: |
packratmack, if you log into your existing account first and then add to your cart, it seems to work. HTHs!
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Thank you again havana8.  I just placed an order. We'll see what happens. |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:36 pm |
| JaeBlue wrote: |
Bethany,
But what functions are in each of all of these program modes?
I don't see that information?
Is one just US. Another US + LED? What are they?
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Jae, the Sqoom/Merbe/Fyola devices offer 2 functions...US and galvanic (which can also be operated at the same time). While you can chose to run them separately, the stats we posted earlier show that penetration of the actives is much greater if you always use both at the same time. (And the only time you would not use both is if you wanted less deep penetration of actives)
So you select a mode like Massage, and the Ion and US functions....the Massage mode is programmed to do 50% pull and 50% push with the galvanic. The Nutrition does 80% push and 20% pull. Cleanse would do primarily pull.
You can see a pictorial detail below of each of the M1 functions via the arrows and ions.
The only exception to this is with the new Sqoom Booster gel...this is designed for penetration closer to the surface for immediate results lasting 24 hours, so they suggest turning off the Ultrasound and using only the galvanic. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:43 pm |
FYI that it looks like those are the gels they used in some of the research! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:51 pm |
| I wondered about that Bethany! I think I will order some even if I don't order the Beauly Si- Slim! |
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Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:36 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
The only exception to this is with the new Sqoom Booster gel...this is designed for penetration closer to the surface for immediate results lasting 24 hours, so they suggest turning off the Ultrasound and using only the galvanic. |
With the RK the galvanic function cannot be applied separately. It's nice to have that option with the Fyola/Merbe. Guess it's not really a big deal since you want to use it with US for better product penetration. I guess if I wanted to only lightly penetrate something I would use the ultrasound setting. I also noticed from the above chart that three of the settings combine positive and negative ions. I wonder what the benefits of this are? The RK uses the positive and negative ions in separate functions. JaeBlue, this is what I was referring to when I said the Fyola seems to have more variations on the functions than the RK.
On the Fyola step 3 and 5 use the same functions. Steps 2,4,6 also use the same functions. Wonder why they chose to use separate settings for them. Is there something that makes them different from each other besides the products you use with them?
From the Dermaconcepts article.
http://www.dermaconcepts.com/documents/0000/0072/Treating_Damaged_Skin.pdf
"It is possible, maybe even highly desirable to treat skin with only one polarity." |
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