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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:24 am  |
Sadly if you are ill and go to doctors they will not usually give you a prescription for tree, sun, plants or food.
Maybe you just need to find a forum where you can learn about Egyptian herbal treatments? Some of your comments are a little bewildering and I'd love to see how this works for you 10, 20, or even 30 years from now (if you live that long on just fruit and air). In fact we don't really know how well its working for you now, no one has seen what you look like or knows how fit and healthy or unfit and unhealthy you are.
| panoslydios wrote: |
Its not incorrect cause real medicine comes from the tree,sun,plants and food.So everyone in the field should know about nutrition aka our real medicine.
I wish i knew the herbal treatments of Egyptians.I wouldnt be there on this forum if i did!!!! |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:27 am |
Sis in the UK doctors do have training which include nutrition.
This is why I'm against whats being said here about our doctors being biased and only wanting to prescribe chemo etc for cancer, and not wanting to think outside the box. In the UK we do have a good system and its working for many people and saving lives.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Keliu - again you are not familiar with medicine in the US. Traditional medical model - aka: Western medical curriculum/physician training in the US does NOT include nutritional training or other natural preventive healing type modalities. Do not confuse this with a naturopath. That is very different. Of course one can get a degree in Nutrition - I have one The difficulty is that many people put their faith in a the Western model trained MD in America "thinking" they have knowledge of nutrition and preventive medical modalities when they do not. This is what Aprile is saying. |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:29 am |
I agree with the bit about supplements here, and part of the reason the government wants to regulate them here in the UK is that not all supplements are equal, and some have been combined with other ingredients etc. In essence, when you buy a supplement there is no authority in the UK that regulates them so you can buy synthetic Vit C with organic rosehips lets say and it can be labelled as organic for example even though most of it is synthetic. It’s a chemical that the body has to then digest.
| Keliu wrote: |
| You can promote supplements all you want. The bottom line is you are swallowing a mass- produced manufactured pill - this is not proper nutrition. |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:37 am |
Just to say if my hubby didn't have a biopsy, we would never have known about his cancer and it would definitely have spread without treatment which is why I'm glad our UK medical system did what it did and tested for it. It in essence saved him from having to deal with this issue later in life and at a larger scale for which I'm grateful for and so the idea of scaring people from having one I have to say I think is wrong. It saved him life without doubt, and it can save others by identifying that they have cancer.
| Keliu wrote: |
| I think a lump in the breast could definitely be considered a medical emergency and it is inappropriate to advise people not to get it checked out by a specialist. Having a biopsy is not a "security blanket" - it is the only way to find out if you have cancer. No-one is in control of their own health - there is absolutely no guarantee that you won't catch an infectious disease, get Parkinson's disease or MS or cancer or have a brain anurism. If you believe you're bullet proof just because you pop vitamin pills, you're deluding yourself. |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:39 am |
| aprile wrote: |
| In my heart of hearts I do believe we can treat cancer ourselves through proper diet, supplements and with proper guidance. |
You aren't the first person to hold this perverted view of "treating" cancer; others have tried it, with devastating results:
http://whatstheharm.net/alternativemedicine.html |
_________________
Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:48 am |
| Keliu wrote: |
| I think a lump in the breast could definitely be considered a medical emergency and it is inappropriate to advise people not to get it checked out by a specialist. Having a biopsy is not a "security blanket" - it is the only way to find out if you have cancer. No-one is in control of their own health - there is absolutely no guarantee that you won't catch an infectious disease, get Parkinson's disease or MS or cancer or have a brain anurism. If you believe you're bullet proof just because you pop vitamin pills, you're deluding yourself. |
Just to be sure - I NEVER told anyone else NOT to get a biopsy. I just informed them that fine needle aspirations and core biopsies are being linked to spreading cancer if it already exists in the breast. I also added that I have read that traditional biopsies were deemed safer, although probably not preferable to most patients. Please Keliu - DO NOT TWIST my words. I realize this is a personal decision for all involved, yet everyone needs to become educated and informed. Seriously for you to post these types of comments about my intention is quite frankly out of line. Your comment about no-one is in control of their own health speaks volumes about how you view health. WOW. |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:07 am |
| aprile wrote: |
| Kath91 wrote: |
It’s really quite interesting reading this general though highly personal controversial discussion that evolved - (ever since this thread’s been moved over to the Lounge forum).
Somewhere here I saw reference(s) to the mercola website.
FWIW - Only posting that I find it very ironic and revealing, yet, also, appropriate that the Mercola.com website includes this section (see below) in their website’s Terms of Use Policy.
HEALTH-RELATED INFORMATION:
The information contained in the (Mercola.com) Website is provided for informational purposes only and is not meant to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other health care professional.
You should not use the information available on or through the Mercola.com Website (including, but not limited to, information that may be provided by healthcare and/or nutrition professionals employed by, or contracting with, Mercola.com) for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or prescribing any medication.
Information and statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration unless specifically so stated.
You should carefully read all product packaging prior to use. |
Kath - Every healthcare site that offers medical advice needs to post a disclaimer. For that matter, many vitamins, minerals and other supplements contain certain disclaimers or warnings about interactions on the labels. AND YES all pharmaceutical drugs come with a small booklet of potential side effects, some of which include the possibility of death. Best, Aprile |
 Me thinks you're slashing a bit at an imagined foe
I posted the mercola website terms of use NOT in reference to the issue of “death by supplements*, but in reference to the issue that even they defer (any of their *opinions stated and shared* re their *medical information*) to the *authoritative* “advice of one’s own doctor or health care professional.”.
With all the *talk* here about the unscrupulous/greedy practices within the Medical Field, it’s important to be reminded that one’s own physician should be (and in my family’s and my experience is) a primary and trustworthy advocate for a person’s health.
And, secondly, despite the raspberries tossed around at the FDA Bogeyman, they (+ any health-related published & online source) at least, appropriately recognize the validity of FDA current laws and parameters. |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:39 pm |
I thought this thread had been deleted. I was looking all over for it 
The old expression ‘trust but verify’ is my motto hands down when it comes to any medical procedure. Second opinions have been a Godsend in my life and several others in my family. Anything that has to do with keeping me on this planet is going to have me all over it. Believe me, I am no stranger to the tight-lip smiles from some I have dared to question.
I’ve had some terrific Dr’s and I’ve had some who surely got their license out of a Cracker Jack box. Remember 50% of those in the medical field graduated in the lower half of their class. Too many are not willing to keep up to speed. Verify and research.
Grab yourself a cup of coffee. You’re gonna love this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA |
_________________
Founder of FlexEffect Facialbuilding. My Photo Journal: FlexEffect.com/deb-photos |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:13 pm |
| Deb Crowley wrote: |
I thought this thread had been deleted. I was looking all over for it
The old expression ‘trust but verify’ is my motto hands down when it comes to any medical procedure. Second opinions have been a Godsend in my life and several others in my family. Anything that has to do with keeping me on this planet is going to have me all over it. Believe me, I am no stranger to the tight-lip smiles from some I have dared to question.
I’ve had some terrific Dr’s and I’ve had some who surely got their license out of a Cracker Jack box. Remember 50% of those in the medical field graduated in the lower half of their class. Too many are not willing to keep up to speed. Verify and research.
Grab yourself a cup of coffee. You’re gonna love this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA |
Wow Deb ~ This IS such an awe inspiring presentation by Robyn O'Brien...I had never heard of her. She is the modern day Food Erin Brockovich!!! I hope this explains to our non U.S. forum members exactly what is going on in this country and WHY I and other forum members are so angry and passionate about this topic!!! We need to fight Monsanto and join the worldwide March against them on October 12th. Let them know that "We are mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore!!!!" THANK YOU DEB!!!  Best, Aprile  |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:41 pm |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Sis in the UK doctors do have training which include nutrition.
This is why I'm against whats being said here about our doctors being biased and only wanting to prescribe chemo etc for cancer, and not wanting to think outside the box. In the UK we do have a good system and its working for many people and saving lives.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Keliu - again you are not familiar with medicine in the US. Traditional medical model - aka: Western medical curriculum/physician training in the US does NOT include nutritional training or other natural preventive healing type modalities. Do not confuse this with a naturopath. That is very different. Of course one can get a degree in Nutrition - I have one The difficulty is that many people put their faith in a the Western model trained MD in America "thinking" they have knowledge of nutrition and preventive medical modalities when they do not. This is what Aprile is saying. |
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No Theresa Mary they don't. Dated a surgeon for five years - no nutritional training. Really they don't. If they do - it's a choice. Not a curriculum requirement. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:43 pm |
| Deb Crowley wrote: |
I thought this thread had been deleted. I was looking all over for it
The old expression ‘trust but verify’ is my motto hands down when it comes to any medical procedure. Second opinions have been a Godsend in my life and several others in my family. Anything that has to do with keeping me on this planet is going to have me all over it. Believe me, I am no stranger to the tight-lip smiles from some I have dared to question.
I’ve had some terrific Dr’s and I’ve had some who surely got their license out of a Cracker Jack box. Remember 50% of those in the medical field graduated in the lower half of their class. Too many are not willing to keep up to speed. Verify and research.
Grab yourself a cup of coffee. You’re gonna love this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rixyrCNVVGA |
Well said Deb. Have to watch the you tube. |
_________________
Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:09 pm |
Hey everyone... Mom was telling me about this thread. Thought I'd pop in with some goodies I've been looking at in the last several months. Not necessarily Cancer related, but nurition and disease related...
Dr. Perlmutter is (taken from his FB page): Board-Certified Neurologist and Fellow of the American College of Nutrition
David Perlmutter, MD, FACN, ABIHM is a board-certified neurologist and fellow of the American College of Nutrition who received his MD degree from the University of Miami School of Medicine where he was awarded the Leonard G. Rowntree Research Award. After completing residency training in Neurology, also at the University of Miami, Dr. Perlmutter entered private practice in Naples, Florida.
Dr. Perlmutter is a frequent lecturer at symposia sponsored by such medical institutions as Columbia University, the University of Arizona, Scripps Institute, New York University and Harvard University. He has contributed extensively to the world medical literature with publications appearing in The Journal of Neurosurgery, The Southern Medical Journal, Journal of Applied Nutrition, and Archives of Neurology. He is the author of The Better Brain Book and Raise a Smarter Child by Kindergarten, and is recognized internationally as a leader in the field of nutritional influences in neurological disorders.
He also consulted with a very dear friend of mine who had a brain injury when a routers bus she was riding to the SF 49's game crashed. She smashed her head against the window. And it was months before she could speak full sentences... or regained her short term memory.
He has recently published a new book called Grain Brain. I've just downloaded it to my kindle, and will be reading it soon. Here's an interview he did via webinar a few weeks back. I know this isn't cancer related, however he speaks to how much nutrition truly impacts our bodies and our brains and such. He Sites lots of science... http://funmedwebinars.wistia.com/medias/sdgxuwyz4c
He has done some amazing work with his patients who have Parkinsons... Do a search on youtube, parkinsons and glutithione AND perlmutter. Visual and instant results.
I'm not interested in arguing about whose medical system is is better, good doctors... bad doctors.
My personal experience is that it took over 15 years for a Dr. to do a complete thyroid panel on me. Where I showed an insane amount of antiboidies. His suggestion, I kid you not, was that I wait until my thyroid completely died (by way of my own attack) and then he'd give me some thyroid meds. I'm like... DUDE, I can barely walk up 4 stairs now. What am I supposed to do to say... clean my house? Needless to say, not only did the receptionist at the NEW dr's office I found understand my blood test results and what treatment I was headed for (was she making more than minimum wage? I hope so!)... But my new Dr. didn't take more than 3 seconds to determine what RXs I needed.
Later it took a very astute dentist to suggest that I must have sleep apnea based on the way I speak and examination... I thought golf ball size tonsils were normal! And I had absolutely no idea what a turnbinate was... have fun researching that! The first Dr. I spoke with shrugged his shoulders and said I could get tested if I wanted. I was so sleep deprived, I really didn't properly comprehend appropriate testing and treatment. It was later when I was taking care of mom after a surgery, that SHE freaked out as to how I was breathing (or rather NOT) in my sleep. My new Dr. jumped all over that. Got the referrals I needed, and a test that proved I wasn't getting more than 2 hours of sleep per night. OMG!!!  And my O2s were dropping into the mid to low 70s... That's a heart attack waiting to happen. I have small children, and I'm only 42. Imagine telling a patient to basically not worry about, or get tested "if they want"... There is a reason many of us are weary of Drs. not ALL Drs. But let's just say, I don't depend on a Dr. to tell me everything I need to know. Quite frankly s/he doesn't have time. They have to meet with so many patients just to make up for the crap rates they get from insurance and will continue to get under O-care...
I find, when you have great experiences with doctors you are more trusting, and you stick with the Dr.... I drive 1 hour each way for my kids Pediatrician. She's a GEM! She doesn't jump all over ADD meds just because a school nurse thinks my child needs them... Which he doesn't. Same child sent to ER after his vaccines...To be told that visual swelling of the brain through his softspot was "normal"... ummm... Really? Yes, according to the RX's website. Apparently, I don't understand what NORMAL is... That's a response to something bad, IMO.
But when you have experiences like myself, or my DH who went to DR for freakshow swelling in one of the "boys" they told him he had an STD and gave him an antibiotic (without a single test... no joke!)... Which he new was not possible. And luckily because we did a lot of research and found the best doctors in our area, he was actually diagnosed with Testicular Cancer. At what point would the other doctor test him? When it hit his lungs? his Brain?
The ultimate point, really is to use your brain when it comes to your health. Realize perhaps that good nutrition is as important for you as bad nutrition is bad for you. If you're gonna take a supplement, know if there is a toxicity rate to it. Goes for prescribed RX as well. I'll never forget when a pharmacist labeled a drug that should only be taken once a day to slow heart rate, with "take as needed"... That's a potential death sentence if a person doesn't realize that STOPPING their heart is a probability under those directions...and is probably a bad idea.
Oh, The last clip I want to add talks about mainstream treatment and diabetes... which is becoming a national issue in the US... I admire this Dr. for laying it all out there... http://youtu.be/UMhLBPPtlrY |
_________________
Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:58 pm |
Thanks, Deb & daughter (?), for sharing your medical experiences with some pretty negligent and incompetent doctors.
I agree. I can’t imagine why anyone would stay with a doctor in whom they have little nor any confidence, who is dismissive to their patients nor is knowledgeably astute.
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
...I find, when you have great experiences with (a) doctor(s) you are more trusting, and you stick with the Dr....
...And because we did a lot of research and found the best doctor(s) in our area. |
Ditto!
And have had, for some time now, the right doctor for us, also. (Must’ve used our brains, ya think,  )
Oh…and BTW - while it’s on my mind, and it’s not terribly OT….had a wonderful conversation with our local Natural Health Food Store manager today that told us that October is Anti-GMO month. She’s all gung-ho about all the local events planned. |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:09 pm |
| Kath91 wrote: |
Thanks, Deb & daughter (?), for sharing your medical experiences with some pretty negligent and incompetent doctors.
I agree. I can’t imagine why anyone would stay with a doctor in whom they have little nor any confidence, who is dismissive to their patients nor is knowledgeably astute.
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Yeah... I'm Deb's oldest! |
_________________
Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:14 pm |
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
| Kath91 wrote: |
Thanks, Deb & daughter (?), for sharing your medical experiences with some pretty negligent and incompetent doctors.
I agree. I can’t imagine why anyone would stay with a doctor in whom they have little nor any confidence, who is dismissive to their patients nor is knowledgeably astute.
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Yeah... I'm Deb's oldest! |
Thx. (I wasn’t sure.)
Such a positive pro-active team. Kudos! |
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Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:17 pm |
| Kath91 wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
| Kath91 wrote: |
It’s really quite interesting reading this general though highly personal controversial discussion that evolved - (ever since this thread’s been moved over to the Lounge forum).
Somewhere here I saw reference(s) to the mercola website.
FWIW - Only posting that I find it very ironic and revealing, yet, also, appropriate that the Mercola.com website includes this section (see below) in their website’s Terms of Use Policy.
HEALTH-RELATED INFORMATION:
The information contained in the (Mercola.com) Website is provided for informational purposes only and is not meant to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other health care professional.
You should not use the information available on or through the Mercola.com Website (including, but not limited to, information that may be provided by healthcare and/or nutrition professionals employed by, or contracting with, Mercola.com) for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or prescribing any medication.
Information and statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration unless specifically so stated.
You should carefully read all product packaging prior to use. |
Kath - Every healthcare site that offers medical advice needs to post a disclaimer. For that matter, many vitamins, minerals and other supplements contain certain disclaimers or warnings about interactions on the labels. AND YES all pharmaceutical drugs come with a small booklet of potential side effects, some of which include the possibility of death. Best, Aprile |
Me thinks you're slashing a bit at an imagined foe
I posted the mercola website terms of use NOT in reference to the issue of “death by supplements*, but in reference to the issue that even they defer (any of their *opinions stated and shared* re their *medical information*) to the *authoritative* “advice of one’s own doctor or health care professional.”.
With all the *talk* here about the unscrupulous/greedy practices within the Medical Field, it’s important to be reminded that one’s own physician should be (and in my family’s and my experience is) a primary and trustworthy advocate for a person’s health.
And, secondly, despite the raspberries tossed around at the FDA Bogeyman, they (+ any
health-related published & online source) at least, appropriately recognize the validity of FDA current laws and parameters. |
Sorry Kath - just read your post... Guess I was getting paranoid from being bombarded by adversaries at every angle. I'll try not to read into things next time . 😗 |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:44 am |
Sis I don't know who your source is but it's incorrect. I took a look at two university syllabus for doctors and both include nutrition training, plus I know a nutritionist who teaches doctors in their 3rd year and has done so since the 90's in central London's UCL.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Sis in the UK doctors do have training which include nutrition.
This is why I'm against whats being said here about our doctors being biased and only wanting to prescribe chemo etc for cancer, and not wanting to think outside the box. In the UK we do have a good system and its working for many people and saving lives.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Keliu - again you are not familiar with medicine in the US. Traditional medical model - aka: Western medical curriculum/physician training in the US does NOT include nutritional training or other natural preventive healing type modalities. Do not confuse this with a naturopath. That is very different. Of course one can get a degree in Nutrition - I have one The difficulty is that many people put their faith in a the Western model trained MD in America "thinking" they have knowledge of nutrition and preventive medical modalities when they do not. This is what Aprile is saying. |
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No Theresa Mary they don't. Dated a surgeon for five years - no nutritional training. Really they don't. If they do - it's a choice. Not a curriculum requirement. |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:10 am |
| aprile wrote: |
| circus wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
The American Cancer Society is trying to scare people about using supplements ... what a surprise! Keliu and TM - you don't live in the U.S. so you can't really comment about our system here. The corruption that exists in medicine is confounding at best. Quite frankly, its a domino effect between the doctors who although might be doing what medical protcol considers to be *correct* treatment, the insurance companies control *what prescriptions* will be covered, hence telling the medical doctors what to do, and the pharmaceutical reps who bribe the docs with trips and such to use their preferred medications and on and on... Then of course, as Sis mentioned, there are the lobbyists who rush to market pharmaceuticals without the appropriate trials. The FDA is supposed to be here to protect us yet they really don't do a very good job.
You have FREE medical care, but what does that really do for you? It doesn't really put you in a better position than us because those doctors are going to follow strict medical protocols and not *think outside the box*. When the insurance companies are telling the doctors which pharmaceuticals or treatements they can use, by not covering it, that's a crime. Why do you think there are so many people fighting with insurance companies to have certain treatments or drugs covered? Right now in the U.S., medical marijuana is becoming a hot bed discussion for the treatment of cancer. Mediccal marijuana is a viable treatment and one that does no harm to the patient. Further, it spares the patient having to endure the barbaric treatments of chemo and radiation. However, its still not going to be the *preferrred protocol* because it doesn't cost nearly as much as chemo... In fact, not even close. However, there are more doctors who agree that it could save their patients lives, yet they still have to acquiesce to the system.
Seriously, this is not a witch hunt, this is just telling it like it is, and more importantly, a lively discussion like this should serve as a wake up call to those who are uninformed about how the system *really* works. Yes indeed, the cancer machine. Knowledge is power. |
You do realise that corruption exists everywhere, not just in medicine? Yes, this is how the world works, not just "the system". There are also reps who bribe naturopaths/alternative practitioners to use whatever they are selling. There are also lobbyists who rush to market supplements without the appropriate trials. I'm sure you agree personal testimonies of "Yes, I know it works for me" do not constitute an appropriate trial, be it nutritional supplements or pharmaceutical drugs. Medical marijuana and whatever other viable treatment with their respective stakeholders will surely need to go through appropriate trials before you can say it really "does no harm to the patient". |
Circus, Of course I realize that... In the United States it's called *free enterprise*. However, as previously stated the FDA is working hard to take away our supplements, but thankfully, they would have to pass a bill through congress to get this done.
But they are still looking for a loophole.
So please clarify - are you saying that a personal testimony is not relevant? I suffered for 30 years with fibrocystic breast disease and not once did any doctor say to me "try iodine, or try magnesium or whatever." I found this information on my own via web search. Since this forum is intended to share information, and I am not presenting a medical paper, I posted it here. AGAIN, I didn't devise this plan on my own. I previously gave a number of sources for information about how iodine can eliminate FBD. Dr. Wright, Dr. Brownstein, Dr. Sircus, Dr. Derry, etc. However, Dr. Jonathan Wright, who created the Tri-Est formula and runs the Tahoma Clinic has some great information about iodine on his site. For anyone concerned about thyroid dysfunction occuring from taking too much iodine for too long a period of time, it would be helpful to work with a physician schooled in supplements to monitor thyroid levels. But, as Dr. Wright points out, this can be reversed by discontinuing iodine. All I am saying is that people need to become educated on their options. There's a very good reason why so many people are iodine deficient which I won't go into right now.... Best, Aprile
http://tahomaclinicblog.com/iodide/
http://www.tahomaclinic.com/thermography-seattle/ |
Aprile, anecdotal evidence vs scientific evidence, small sample sizes not representative of typical cases. You mentioned lobbyists rushing to market pharmaceuticals without appropriate trials, what would you deem appropriate here? Would you be receptive of someone recommending you a drug simply because "it worked" for him/her? It's great you found something to work for you. I do understand you are not presenting a medical paper, but you do present personal opinions like facts. As much as you dismiss wikipedia and other websites, your own sources are no superior. (I actually think they are highly suspect, but if we can agree to disagree here?)
All I'm asking is, if you would apply the same critical standards you have towards traditional allopathic medicine, to everything else outside the box. It almost seems like you are condemning everything inside the box in favour of everything outside the box? By all means research and verify, but everything! |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:04 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Sis I don't know who your source is but it's incorrect. I took a look at two university syllabus for doctors and both include nutrition training, plus I know a nutritionist who teaches doctors in their 3rd year and has done so since the 90's in central London's UCL.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Sis in the UK doctors do have training which include nutrition.
This is why I'm against whats being said here about our doctors being biased and only wanting to prescribe chemo etc for cancer, and not wanting to think outside the box. In the UK we do have a good system and its working for many people and saving lives.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Keliu - again you are not familiar with medicine in the US. Traditional medical model - aka: Western medical curriculum/physician training in the US does NOT include nutritional training or other natural preventive healing type modalities. Do not confuse this with a naturopath. That is very different. Of course one can get a degree in Nutrition - I have one The difficulty is that many people put their faith in a the Western model trained MD in America "thinking" they have knowledge of nutrition and preventive medical modalities when they do not. This is what Aprile is saying. |
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No Theresa Mary they don't. Dated a surgeon for five years - no nutritional training. Really they don't. If they do - it's a choice. Not a curriculum requirement. |
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TM ~ Again, Sis is referring to the US ONLY when she speaks about requirements, not the UK where you live. FWIW, we forum members who are disgruntled about the current state of our healthcare system are not commenting on the healthcare systems or MD curriculum requirements in other countries. We do have a right to express our concerns and opinions openly about OUR system in OUR country. |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:17 pm |
Aprile - Sis referred to my post which I made clear was talking about UK and not US and she didn't specify that her comment was in relation to the US, so I wanted to clarify it.
Yes forum members are entitled to be disgruntled about anything - but then to rubbish a particular profession worldwide is just crazy. I know you have your views and that's great, but I'm sorry they are not my experience and I have been through it with my hubby so to stand back and let you or anyone share just your own viewpoints without my experience creates a bad impression of people who I believe are trying to help.
| aprile wrote: |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Sis I don't know who your source is but it's incorrect. I took a look at two university syllabus for doctors and both include nutrition training, plus I know a nutritionist who teaches doctors in their 3rd year and has done so since the 90's in central London's UCL.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
Sis in the UK doctors do have training which include nutrition.
This is why I'm against whats being said here about our doctors being biased and only wanting to prescribe chemo etc for cancer, and not wanting to think outside the box. In the UK we do have a good system and its working for many people and saving lives.
| sister sweets wrote: |
| Keliu - again you are not familiar with medicine in the US. Traditional medical model - aka: Western medical curriculum/physician training in the US does NOT include nutritional training or other natural preventive healing type modalities. Do not confuse this with a naturopath. That is very different. Of course one can get a degree in Nutrition - I have one The difficulty is that many people put their faith in a the Western model trained MD in America "thinking" they have knowledge of nutrition and preventive medical modalities when they do not. This is what Aprile is saying. |
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No Theresa Mary they don't. Dated a surgeon for five years - no nutritional training. Really they don't. If they do - it's a choice. Not a curriculum requirement. |
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TM ~ Again, Sis is referring to the US ONLY when she speaks about requirements, not the UK where you live. FWIW, we forum members who are disgruntled about the current state of our healthcare system are not commenting on the healthcare systems or MD curriculum requirements in other countries. We do have a right to express our concerns and opinions openly about OUR system in OUR country. |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:20 pm |
Aprile
Just to be clear I said originally:
Sis in the UK doctors do have training which include nutrition.
To which she responded:
No Theresa Mary they don't. Dated a surgeon for five years - no nutritional training. Really they don't. If they do - it's a choice. Not a curriculum requirement.
Check the message you quoted above and you will see she is referring to UK not US! |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:25 pm |
Aprile, you should re-read what you quoted. TM said that doctors in the UK have training in nutrition and Sis said that she was wrong, that doctors in the UK do not get any training in nutrition. Also, BTW you and Sis quite often comment about healthcare systems in other countries.
You wrote:
You have FREE medical care, but what does that really do for you? It doesn't really put you in a better position than us because those doctors are going to follow strict medical protocols and not *think outside the box*.
Sis wrote:
I have taught a course at the University about Healthcare Delivery Systems throughout the world. Our system in the US is different than yours. We have not paid the high taxes to subsidize the care of people who don't work or don't have insurance etc. That is going to change soon.
And:
Healthcare is never free. If you are in a country where it is part of the system it is paid for by much higher taxes on the working population or companies. Drs and hospitals and healthcare professionals must get paid and it has to come from somewhere.
If you are a person who requires a lot of healthcare it is a major benefit. If you are a very healthy person you are contributing to the care of others - in that you require much less and don't use the resources.
Of course healthcare is not free. It is paid for out of our taxes, but no one is ever denied care for any reason. You have no idea what my tax situation is, so please quite telling me that we pay much higher taxes than you do to cover healthcare costs. My sister in Washington State pays $1200 a month for her family of 4 medical insurance! My brother-in-law does some contract work for the teamsters and they require him to carry it. Just exactly who is being ripped off? |
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48 years old. Very acne prone. Staples: Retin-A/Tazorac and C serum. |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:53 pm |
| circus wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
| circus wrote: |
| aprile wrote: |
The American Cancer Society is trying to scare people about using supplements ... what a surprise! Keliu and TM - you don't live in the U.S. so you can't really comment about our system here. The corruption that exists in medicine is confounding at best. Quite frankly, its a domino effect between the doctors who although might be doing what medical protcol considers to be *correct* treatment, the insurance companies control *what prescriptions* will be covered, hence telling the medical doctors what to do, and the pharmaceutical reps who bribe the docs with trips and such to use their preferred medications and on and on... Then of course, as Sis mentioned, there are the lobbyists who rush to market pharmaceuticals without the appropriate trials. The FDA is supposed to be here to protect us yet they really don't do a very good job.
You have FREE medical care, but what does that really do for you? It doesn't really put you in a better position than us because those doctors are going to follow strict medical protocols and not *think outside the box*. When the insurance companies are telling the doctors which pharmaceuticals or treatements they can use, by not covering it, that's a crime. Why do you think there are so many people fighting with insurance companies to have certain treatments or drugs covered? Right now in the U.S., medical marijuana is becoming a hot bed discussion for the treatment of cancer. Mediccal marijuana is a viable treatment and one that does no harm to the patient. Further, it spares the patient having to endure the barbaric treatments of chemo and radiation. However, its still not going to be the *preferrred protocol* because it doesn't cost nearly as much as chemo... In fact, not even close. However, there are more doctors who agree that it could save their patients lives, yet they still have to acquiesce to the system.
Seriously, this is not a witch hunt, this is just telling it like it is, and more importantly, a lively discussion like this should serve as a wake up call to those who are uninformed about how the system *really* works. Yes indeed, the cancer machine. Knowledge is power. |
You do realise that corruption exists everywhere, not just in medicine? Yes, this is how the world works, not just "the system". There are also reps who bribe naturopaths/alternative practitioners to use whatever they are selling. There are also lobbyists who rush to market supplements without the appropriate trials. I'm sure you agree personal testimonies of "Yes, I know it works for me" do not constitute an appropriate trial, be it nutritional supplements or pharmaceutical drugs. Medical marijuana and whatever other viable treatment with their respective stakeholders will surely need to go through appropriate trials before you can say it really "does no harm to the patient". |
Circus, Of course I realize that... In the United States it's called *free enterprise*. However, as previously stated the FDA is working hard to take away our supplements, but thankfully, they would have to pass a bill through congress to get this done.
But they are still looking for a loophole.
So please clarify - are you saying that a personal testimony is not relevant? I suffered for 30 years with fibrocystic breast disease and not once did any doctor say to me "try iodine, or try magnesium or whatever." I found this information on my own via web search. Since this forum is intended to share information, and I am not presenting a medical paper, I posted it here. AGAIN, I didn't devise this plan on my own. I previously gave a number of sources for information about how iodine can eliminate FBD. Dr. Wright, Dr. Brownstein, Dr. Sircus, Dr. Derry, etc. However, Dr. Jonathan Wright, who created the Tri-Est formula and runs the Tahoma Clinic has some great information about iodine on his site. For anyone concerned about thyroid dysfunction occuring from taking too much iodine for too long a period of time, it would be helpful to work with a physician schooled in supplements to monitor thyroid levels. But, as Dr. Wright points out, this can be reversed by discontinuing iodine. All I am saying is that people need to become educated on their options. There's a very good reason why so many people are iodine deficient which I won't go into right now.... Best, Aprile
http://tahomaclinicblog.com/iodide/
http://www.tahomaclinic.com/thermography-seattle/ |
Aprile, anecdotal evidence vs scientific evidence, small sample sizes not representative of typical cases. You mentioned lobbyists rushing to market pharmaceuticals without appropriate trials, what would you deem appropriate here? Would you be receptive of someone recommending you a drug simply because "it worked" for him/her? It's great you found something to work for you. I do understand you are not presenting a medical paper, but you do present personal opinions like facts. As much as you dismiss wikipedia and other websites, your own sources are no superior. (I actually think they are highly suspect, but if we can agree to disagree here?)
All I'm asking is, if you would apply the same critical standards you have towards traditional allopathic medicine, to everything else outside the box. It almost seems like you are condemning everything inside the box in favour of everything outside the box? By all means research and verify, but everything! |
Well Circus, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is a free society and we are ALL free to share what has worked for us on the skincare forum, the DIY forum, or any other forum on EDS last time I checked. So just to clarify should I run my own clinical trial before I declare that iodine has worked for me to reduce my FBD? Also, you must be joking that you would put pharmaceuticals into the same category as supplements and ask them to run clinical trials. Supplement companies aren't declaring their products will "cure" or "treat" specific diseases. They aren't even allowed to do that. If you think they should be put through the same clinical trials, then I guess you don't think we should be entitled to them unless they are under the pharmaceutical domain. God forbid that happens, because then we would would most certainly be screwed... WOW.
If you haven't already, check out the link that Claudia Crowley posted. The U.S. government is using us as guinea pigs and most people are totally unaware of what's going on. To prove a point, I ran a fun run today for a genetic disorder that a kids sister on my son's baseball is afflicted with. To clarify, I live in Long Island, NY -- a densely populated area where as I previously mentioned is a cancer hotbed. Particularly for breast cancer and I probably know about 10 women in my own immediate community who have had breast cancer. I asked two of the women there whom I know have had breast cancer this past year if they have ever heard of Monsanto. They looked at me like I had two heads. The point is people need to become more educated. I agree that it's possible that cancer *might* be able to be put into remission for a time with chemo and radiation, if you want to go down that road. BUT, if you don't look at the complete health picture for yourself and your family, you are not doing a very good job. The video Claudia posted shows WHAT our government is doing to us without our knowledge, much less our approval. The woman who presented in that video was an educated, intelligent woman who had a career in Wall Street. Yet she was feeding her babies GMO foods on a regular basis, and as a result her child had an allergic reaction to GMO food that could have been fatal. Most people think if it's on the shelves in the supermarket, its safe. So what does that say about the average persons chances in the United States to be able to discifer what's healthy and whats not? Folks in Australia, UK, France or Italy or elsewhere in Europe don't have to worry about these kinds of things. Lucily for them, THEIR GOVERNMENT chose NOT use them as guinea pigs and passed on making a deal with the devil (aka Monsanto). You might like the way I present my information, but you can't you argue with the truth. If you think my spreading the word about becoming more educated, not trusting all traditional protocols, being one's own health advocate, using supplements as a way to improve health is inappropriate, tell me WHY?
And finally, Dr. Wright is a graduate of Harvard and the University of Michigan and a well respected physician in the field of holistic medicine. With over 35 years experience, Dr. Wright is a medical practioner, acclaimed international lecturer, author, teacher, and researcher. In fact, he developed the Tri-Est bioidentical hormone forumulary. He's also internationally known for his books and medical articles, and has authored or co-authored 14 books. He's not exactly a quack or everyday Joe who posts his personal opinions on Wiki.
Have a great day ~ Aprile |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:34 pm |
| ETA: You might *NOT* like the way I present my information, |
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Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:20 pm |
Aprile, no I am not joking about pharmaceuticals and supplements. After all you said
| aprile wrote: |
| In my heart of hearts I do believe we can treat cancer ourselves through proper diet, supplements and with proper guidance. |
Your double standards and extreme views are somewhat perplexing to me. I do see how the FDA has failed to protect people like you. 
Please carry on without me.  |
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