The Derminator
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free skin care · Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:36 am

How often do you change the cartridge?

free skin care · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:32 am

Kira wrote:

Does anyone know if the same needle cartridges for the MyM will work with the Derminator?

Kira, she says specifically in the instruction manual (available on the owndoc site) not to use other cartridges. She said the ones they found that would fit were terrible quality. Her cartridges are reasonably priced, IMO.

free skin care · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:35 am

denisiel wrote:

How often do you change the cartridge?

It depends on how much you use it, how much wear you put on the cartridge. Someone needling larger areas would need to change it more often, IMO.

free skin care · Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:48 am

I love my Derminator! I hemmed and hawed for a couple of years about starting with microneedling, almost got a Dermastamp, then I almost got a My-M and finally, when the Derminator came out and I read so many positive reviews on it, I decided to bite the bullet and order one. Really glad I did!

I just finished my first, very brief session. I did the area around my mouth. First, I put on a thick layer of EMLA, then wrapped a long piece of saran wrap around my head, and across my mouth. Tip: get a drink of water BEFORE you do this. I had to wait an hour, and I got thirsty! I also had to cough, which was awkward. Note to self - use two strips of Saran wrap next time...

After an hour, I cleaned off the EMLA with alcohol, pouring the alcohol over my clean fingers as well, then smoothed on hyaluronic acid serum. I then went to town on my smoker's lines and I think I did a pretty good job!

It did not hurt, until I reached the hairline scar that I have on my upper lip, then it was a tiny bit of pain - not really pain so much as mild discomfort. Not surprising as scar tissue is so much more dense than regular skin. I did bleed. I cleaned off the blood and smoothed on vitamin C serum, which stung a tiny bit. Sarah is right - the discomfort AFTER you needle is worse than the needling itself, although I can't speak for doing it without numbing cream. I'll try that tomorrow.

Right now I've got a red area around my mouth. I have pinpricks along with the red area. Good! Take that, smoker's lines! LOL

I used 1.0 depth and fast speed. I'll do the rest of my face using .5 tomorrow and report back!

I have no basis for comparison, never having used any roller or machine, but I feel like I'm learning to drive in a Jaguar instead of a Camry. Smile

Thank you Sarah Vaughter and owndoc!

free skin care · Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:38 am

Immacolata wrote:

After an hour, I cleaned off the EMLA with alcohol, pouring the alcohol over my clean fingers as well, then smoothed on hyaluronic acid serum. I then went to town on my smoker's lines and I think I did a pretty good job!
...

I cleaned off the blood and smoothed on vitamin C serum, which stung a tiny bit. Sarah is right - the discomfort AFTER you needle is worse than the needling itself, although I can't speak for doing it without numbing cream. I'll try that tomorrow.

Hi Immacolata,

Thanks for the review! May I ask which HA serum did you use?

What do you use to clean the blood off your skin?

Did you disinfect the Derminator with just isopropyl alcohol (70%)?

I thought we are not supposed to use Vit C after a roll deeper than 0.5%?

I am waiting for mine and appreciate all your posts - am also a needling newbie!

free skin care · Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:30 am

I made my own serum with HA powder and distilled water. I used a clean cotton ball to wipe off the blood.

I used hot running water first, then I used the alcohol.

I haven't heard that about Vitamin C. I think you're supposed to use your actives before the micro channels close. I used mine immediately. Of course, my serum is just a 10% solution.

free skin care · Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:42 am

Immacolata wrote:

I made my own serum with HA powder and distilled water. I used a clean cotton ball to wipe off the blood.

I used hot running water first, then I used the alcohol.

I haven't heard that about Vitamin C. I think you're supposed to use your actives before the micro channels close. I used mine immediately. Of course, my serum is just a 10% solution.

Thanks for the info Immacolata! I read on Dr. Setterfield's FB page and on http://skincare.boards.net/thread/49/dermarolling-skin-needling-pcit?page=51#ixzz3SesrT8LT to only use HA after rolling with 0.5mm+ longer needles:

- The newest info is to apply products AFTER rolling not before. And only use sterile normal saline if you need something for slip with a pen. Only use hyaluronic acid in the clinic afterward for the long needles. The next day you can apply your usual products.
...
- Setterfield goes on to say that using LED immediately after long needles helps with healing and anti-inflammation.

I believe he doesn't recommend Vitamin C right after is because it is an acid and can promote inflammation. He believes that the patient must avoid inflammtories right after needling or it can cause PIH (as well as some other issues over the long term but I can't remember which ones at the moment Sad

).

free skin care · Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:22 am

Someone was asking about the circular motion - I found a video that I think is a good demo of technique, although they're using a Skin Pen, not a Derminator. It's a plastic surgeon doing a 61-year old woman's face. She's his wife, I believe. Watching it, I think I didn't spend enough time on my session. I didn't want to go too far my first time out anyway, so it's okay. Next month I'll do another session for my lips, but now I can do the rest of my face correctly, which I will do tonight using .5 or .75; haven't decided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aqrqJM7yw8

free skin care · Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:39 am

denisiel wrote:

Immacolata wrote:

I made my own serum with HA powder and distilled water. I used a clean cotton ball to wipe off the blood.

I used hot running water first, then I used the alcohol.

I haven't heard that about Vitamin C. I think you're supposed to use your actives before the micro channels close. I used mine immediately. Of course, my serum is just a 10% solution.

Thanks for the info Immacolata! I read on Dr. Setterfield's FB page and on http://skincare.boards.net/thread/49/dermarolling-skin-needling-pcit?page=51#ixzz3SesrT8LT to only use HA after rolling with 0.5mm+ longer needles:

- The newest info is to apply products AFTER rolling not before. And only use sterile normal saline if you need something for slip with a pen. Only use hyaluronic acid in the clinic afterward for the long needles. The next day you can apply your usual products.
...
- Setterfield goes on to say that using LED immediately after long needles helps with healing and anti-inflammation.

I believe he doesn't recommend Vitamin C right after is because it is an acid and can promote inflammation. He believes that the patient must avoid inflammtories right after needling or it can cause PIH (as well as some other issues over the long term but I can't remember which ones at the moment Sad

).

Thanks for the info. I just saw the same thing on the owndoc site. Well, the serum I used, as it turns out, was very week. I screwed up the percentages when I was making it and added twice the water I should have. A good thing, as it turns out!

That's cool about the HA because it's extremely inexpensive. I'll hold off until the next day or two to use my C serum and Retin-A. I've still got a little bit of copper peptide serum too - I might add a tiny bit to the HA.

free skin care · Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:44 pm

Thank you Immacolata for the video. The client skin looks wonderful especially considering she's 61. I didn't see a blemish or mark anywhere.

I've never moved the pen that fast. I wonder if the depth of the needle has any relationship to how fast you can move the pen?

Inflammation used to be a good thing in the first 5 days in order to stimulate collagen. Now they're recommending LED right after to cut down on the inflammation. Which is correct or what have I misunderstood?

free skin care · Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:21 am

MaryClaire wrote:

Thank you Immacolata for the video. The client skin looks wonderful especially considering she's 61. I didn't see a blemish or mark anywhere.

I've never moved the pen that fast. I wonder if the depth of the needle has any relationship to how fast you can move the pen?

Inflammation used to be a good thing in the first 5 days in order to stimulate collagen. Now they're recommending LED right after to cut down on the inflammation. Which is correct or what have I misunderstood?

There is a lot of conflicting information out there. I just go with Sarah Vaughter's take on things. She's pretty much the authority on micro needling. Smile

free skin care · Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:15 am

Well, 6 weeks later and still no package. No one can tell me what happened to it so I'm giving up. I will try to get a refund or something. USPS says it never left the country while on the other end, they say its here sitting somewhere and not moving. Either way, 6 weeks is a long enough time to wait.

free skin care · Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:49 pm

WhiteWolf,

Do you have the tracking number?

6 weeks......gosh!

free skin care · Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:37 am

Yes I do but it doesn't help anyone, U.S. says it never left the country while the other side says the U.S. has it, at this point I just want my money back. Sad

Honestly, it has never tracked right from the start. So I just don't get what happened although they say it's the U.S. at fault and that they lie. Either way, 6 weeks is long enough.

free skin care · Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:57 pm

WhiteWolf wrote:

Yes I do but it doesn't help anyone, U.S. says it never left the country while the other side says the U.S. has it, at this point I just want my money back. Sad

Honestly, it has never tracked right from the start. So I just don't get what happened although they say it's the U.S. at fault and that they lie. Either way, 6 weeks is long enough.

This is such a BUMMER. I'm sorry this happened to you. I know it's no consolation to know but I think it might be tied in with the strike at the Port of Los Angeles. I have a friend who makes cosmetics who has been waiting to get bottles.

I don't know if it started after I got my package, so I don't know if this is the reason but if it is, you should get your package soon.

Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:09 am

OwnDoc here. We are IP-banned on EDS so it's extremely hard for us to post or even read EDS, since it involves a proxy server and registering using a new email account every time.

We're very sorry about the enormous USPS delays. It is a huge problem and it really has nothing to do with the originating postal service:

teams/7718/questions/discuss/15970718/page/12

put h t t p s ://w w w .e t s y . c o m/

without the spaces in front of that URL, because we're not allowed to post links as a new user here.

To show that we really care and to show that it's really beyond our control, we refund 25% of the purchase when the customer sends a snail-mailed complaint to the Postmaster General. Our originating tracking does shows export to the US, but when USPS says: "Origin post is preparing shipment" it really means: "Shipment is in the US but due to capacity problems, we haven't scanned it yet and instead we pretend the sending country has a one-month/6-week delay".

About the cartridges: Under no circumstance use any other Derminator cartridge than owndoc's one, because other cartridges have a different spring pressure as well as a different length plunger. So correct needling depth is only guaranteed with OwnDoc cartridges. And it is true that we were unable to find matching cartridges with good needle quality. If you use the wrong cartridge, the needling depth will still be indicated correctly, but in reality it is NOT correct. We warn about this in our manual. Our cartridges are very cheap and very high quality so there is no need to experiment with mismatched cartridges. Half a mm longer/shorter plunger and the needling depth is that much off.

Some customers did not realize that the cartridges have a bajonet fitting. It's important to push them on firmly and then rotate them a quarter turn. Otherwsie needling depth will be too shallow (the machine will indicate this) and the cartridge will fly off.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:44 am

I take it that the money you paid is not going to be refunded to you so...
Can you do a chargeback through your credit card company? Or if PayPal complain to them? This is so wrong that you should be caught in the middle of this mess.

Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:34 pm

Of course the money will be refunded to him if the package is lost in the mail. But it is not lost in the mail, it is delayed by USPS. We also refund if the package is returned to us. So we have a 100% money back guarantee. Of course we can't refund when the package is merely delayed and on its way to the customer. That way, we'd lose the money and the customer would have the merchandise. We warn on our site that USPS sometimes has enormous delays.

WhiteWolf should wait a little longer, because shipments are finaly "moving" again, with USPS. If after two more weeks there is still no package, we'll do a mail inquiry with USPS. If they report the package as lost, we'll immediately refund WhiteWolf. If we receive the package back, we'll immediately refund WhiteWolf. If WhiteWolf still has no package 4 weeks from now, We'll refund him. In short, we are very sure the delay is with USPS and WhiteWolf can be very sure he'll either receive his order or get refunded.

Please note that in any 2-month period, our US-bound turnover is approx. 200,000 USD. We currently have very many delayed packages. If we'd have to refund every package delayed by USPS, we'd lose tens of thousands of dollars and we'd have to permanently raise prices. There is nothing we can do about the chaos with USPS. Americans can buy domestically, but there is no comparable device in the US.

Finally, to show that we really mean it well and we really do everything to soften the pain of waiting and we really do everything we can to persuade USPS to clean up their act, we will refund WhiteWolf immediately 25% of his purchase when he snail-mails a complaint to the US Postmaster General about these delays and misrepresented tracking status. We offer this to all customers with delayed tracked packages, the details are on our site.

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:01 pm

owndoc-dispatch wrote:

Finally, to show that we really mean it well and we really do everything to soften the pain of waiting and we really do everything we can to persuade USPS to clean up their act, we will refund WhiteWolf immediately 25% of his purchase when he snail-mails a complaint to the US Postmaster General about these delays and misrepresented tracking status. We offer this to all customers with delayed tracked packages, the details are on our site.

You have excellent customer service; it's one of the reasons I chose the Derminator. And now that I've received it, I am so happy with how well made it is. This is not a cheapo machine, folks!

Anyway, if you're Sarah - THANK YOU! I love my machine!

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:44 pm

Excellent! I misunderstood . OWNDOC was more than fair to me, glad to hear it. I just really hope the DERMINATOR will finally be delivered. It's an excellent product.

Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:06 pm

It is an excellent machine and I'm glad I have it. I just wish I didn't buy it during the micro-second it was priced at 249.00. Sad

free skin care · Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:42 pm

I am also waiting for my order from OwnDoc. I often ship packages to the US, which go through the USPS system. I have to agree that USPS often has unexplained delays and packages are not accurately trackable. Packages that I pay extra for tracking and registration are not scanned in correctly by USPS. My communications with OwnDoc have been quite good so far so I am willing to wait.

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:41 am

Yes, I am waiting too. I have emailed customer service too but without a tracking number it is hard to figure out EXACTLY where it is and who is at fault. I order international all the time without this much of a delay. Very frustrating!

free skin care · Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:51 am

I was so lucky that from the day that I placed the order to the day I received, it only took me 8 days.

Like some of you, I did not get the tracking number too; however, I kept sending mails to Martha and she passed it on to me.

Edited to add: I placed the order to Owndoc in Jan

Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:28 am

We are very sorry for all our customers still experiencing delays. It is extremely stressful for us and of course for them too, because USPS makes it seem that we simply took the money and not ship. But when you look at the tracking status of the originating country (links are on our site), you can verify that the shipment has been forwarded to the US. China has a special agreement with USPS to expedite processing, it's call ePacket in China. Europe has no such agreement and currently, many European vendors that sell to the US are in damage control mode.

We now added a warning for US customers on every page of our store, telling them that while the normal transit time is between 10 and 20 days, USPS can delay packages by 6 to 8 weeks, occasionally. And we clarify our refund policy in those cases. We also provide a lot of evidence that the problem really lies with USPS, in the "Tracking" part of our store where we provide many links and screenshots of other sources saying the same thing.

If you read the Etsy thread I linked to earlier, you will see that some smaller vendors need to borrow money to refund US customers (who will eventually all get their order), people are going out of business this way and USPS pretends the sending country is to blame. Not all customers are so honest to pay for refunded shipments that all eventually arrive. We can survive that, but not everyone can. Read the thread I linked to. There are single mothers in Estonia, selling hand-made jewelery on Etsy that have to go into debt now due to this.

There is nothing we can do. Every time USPS has these delays we're discussing internally to stop selling to the US altogether, but that is not an option - 70% of our customers are in the US. The real problem is not even the delays, the real problem is USPS claiming we never shipped the (tracked!) package, while it has been sitting in their NYC sorting station for the past month. That's why we refund 25% as soon as a customer emails us a copy of their snail-mailed letter with a complaint to the Postmaster General. That's a $50 refund in the hope to get these issues fixed once and for all, regardless whether the package arrives (they always do) or not.

I wanted to clarify why we had a period of about a month that we charged $249,- for the Derminator.

It was during a time of extreme demand. We were totally unable to meet that demand and most was of clinics so we raised the price a bit to slow that demand down, also because we also had a few returns at that time, costing us significant money in replacements because we pay for the shipping of the return as well, which is, IIRC about $50, tracked, from many countries such as Canada and the US. It turned out that nearly all these returns were because a protective foil over the display made some people think their display was broken, a couple were genuine issues due to the fact that all beginning is difficult but we had no idea how many returns we would get and when we would be able to meet demand. As soon as we addressed the issues that caused returns we had our costs under control, we lowered prices to keep our profit the same. We apologize for this, and it is on the record that if your machine ever breaks, even if it's ten years from now, we'll send you a new one free of charge.

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