Cellese AnteAGE System: general discussion
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free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:38 am

There is absolutely no excuse here for rudeness or histrionics demonstrated through ridiculous accusations, crazy punctuation and word capitalization.

Calm down, we're not discussing ways of solving world hunger - we're discussing skincare - and nonmedical issues at that.

When you find your emotions rising, it's healthier to back away from the keyboard.

I agree with jom. There is a wide range of knowledge here....how rude for people in the business, who study this crap for a living, to point fingers at others who make their living other ways....because they don't have the same level of insight?

I've worked 25 years in an obscure legal profession. Come to our professional forum so we can rip you to shreds when you don't grasp the facts quickly enough.

Chill people.

BFG

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:54 am

DarkMoon wrote:

Firefox7275 wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

That on the link just looks like an advertisement to me.

As someone who started a site all about TRUTH, my feeling is we have been led to believe they Dr. J and Dr. G were the ones who developed these drugs including the cytokine extract for wound healing as well as the skincare product.

Well you won't know unless you check will you? That link was a starting point not the answer, people on EDS keep saying they don't need to be spoonfed. Can you back your feelings up with any evidence?

That was an opinion about "the starting point" as far as I am concerned opinions need not be backed up, they are usually very subjective.

I have no need to be spoon fed thanks, I will check them out further when I choose.

Go ahead and check it out at your leisure, in the mean time please stop dressing wild speculation up as valid opinion. I don't understand why you post on this thread, you don't appear to intend to purchase the product nor are you interested in it from a scientific perspective, so why so negative? Question

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:55 am

Oh sorry for my stupid, stupid questions. Just yesterday it was in the news here that the number of skin cancer cases has grown explosively over the past few years. Any modern skin care should take that into account IMO, especially when according to the info in one of the other threads discussing growth factors things could be made worse, and cytokines encompass several growth factors. In the light of the earlier discussions dr J. took part in I think it's nothing more than natural to ask about safety with long term use.

Of course this is all complex matter when you try to get into the smoke and mirrors of bombarding people with scientific articles. But basically it's I think very simple: does it work? and is it safe? and can you prove that?

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:59 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

Well you won't know unless you check will you? That link was a starting point not the answer, people on EDS keep saying they don't need to be spoonfed. Can you back your feelings up with any evidence?

That was an opinion about "the starting point" as far as I am concerned opinions need not be backed up, they are usually very subjective.

I have no need to be spoon fed thanks, I will check them out further when I choose.

Firefox7275 wrote:

Go ahead and check it out at your leisure, in the mean time please stop dressing wild speculation up as valid opinion. I don't understand why you post on this thread, you don't appear to intend to purchase the product nor are you interested in it from a scientific perspective, so why so negative? Question

I am not being negative and you do not know what my interest is so please stop with the rude and unnecessary accusations.
When the MODS decide what I post is offensive they will certainly delete those posts.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:03 am

I am a potential customer. I WANT to be spoonfed convincing and as complete as possible information. When a partnership is stated with a scientific institution I want to know what that is about, or if it has any relevance to the product. For "45 people tried it and noticed spectacular results" I can visit any website advertising 20 dollar face creams and serums. For 200+ I expect a bit more.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:09 am

For the record yet again I am not saying this is a drug, what I am saying is it is advertised that cellese got it's start with a drug use of cytokines for wound healing for diabetics. That should have valid medical studies and abstracts done by them.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:11 am

My Cellese arrived in one day, i.e. yesterday. I put it on last night, felt very smooth and pleasant, no odor. Skin feels very smooth this morning. Agree with jom's report above. However,felt a little sticky overnight. Will see how it does with MDSkincare tinted moisturizer SPF 15 on top today. Will report back soon.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:16 am

existential lady wrote:

My Cellese arrived in one day, i.e. yesterday. I put it on last night, felt very smooth and pleasant, no odor. Skin feels very smooth this morning. Agree with jom's report above. However,felt a little sticky overnight. Will see how it does with MDSkincare tinted moisturizer SPF 15 on top today. Will report back soon.

Looking forward to your subjective thoughts on how it works for you! Very Happy

Seriously please do report in with your results!

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:22 am

Lotusesther wrote:

Of course this is all complex matter when you try to get into the smoke and mirrors of bombarding people with scientific articles. But basically it's I think very simple: does it work? and is it safe? and can you prove that?

So how exactly are scientists supposed to prove something works and is safe, if you are then going to accuse them of smoke and mirrors when they present published research? That is all we have, that is how every drug available today in the West gets and holds its license, well designed studies and peer reviewed literature. That is what every anti-ageing 'cosmeceutical' should be based on IMO. It is not nearly as complex as you think to locate or analyse studies, you have several EDSers with a scientific or analytical background at your disposal if you wanted them to assist or bounce ideas off.

I worked in hospital clean rooms and cell culture research labs many years ago, so I will defend this product and its manufacture against scaremongering and baseless allegations on safety. What I will not do is defend it as effective, nor will I purchase ... at least until I have seen the papers DrJ assures us are in press. The stuff that is being suggested here is nonsensical, it would be madness for Cellese to lie about their links to a research facility, it is the easiest thing in the world for anyone here to pick up the telephone or bash out an e-mail.

We can also listen to people like DragoN. She has no link to Cellese AFAIK so cannot be accused of bias as DrJ can. She is a scientist who has invested a lot of time in researching actives and formulation, she had some quite heated debates with DrJ over at SCT and has taken the time to read right up to date on stem cells and cytokines, which is more than I can be bothered to do! I am sure she would be happy to confirm whether the summaries on Barefacedtruth are accurate or sales pitches, and will surely give her opinion on DrJ's papers when they are published if you wish.

What more can be done to appease you?

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:33 am

I ordered, I've seen great results with Lifeline (in particular under eye wrinkles) and willing to give Cellese a try too. Mine should be arriving soon.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:41 am

I am wondering about the use of my vitamin C serum (Cellex C Advanced C Serum) with this product. I am very happy with the way my skin is looking after 4 months use as it does not aggrivate my post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation and I've got glowing/radiant skin now. It is the 4th Vit C serum I tried and finally found one that works!

Would the Vit. C serum go on first, then the AnteAGE serum, followed by the Accelerator?

Almost 40 and am happy with my skin; interested in the AnteAGE for long-term benefits to keep it that way (hold off any sagging or loss of firmness) as well as help with moisture as it is very dry here in the winter. I was using the teprenone product from NCN Proskincare and it was a fantastic moisturizer...but alas, the long term effects of teprenone may not be positive, and am now looking elsewhere.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:43 am

I've seen good results, very good results with Lifeline, too. I am trialing Cellese, though I don't know how much better it can get. We'll see! Excited to try after all this talk.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:44 am

erg wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

erg wrote:

Keliu wrote:

erg wrote:

I hope to be able to afford both, but if not I am going for the activator as my skin is SUPER dry. I am also going to use short dermaroller before application of the activator at least 2x per week to hopefully maximize results.

I can't see the point of just using the activator - because without the serum, you have nothing to activate!

But it is my understanding is that the activator has the cells as well - just in smaller quantities. Is that correct?

Hi erg,

On page 5 the ingredient list shows the stem cell extract (my wording) as the first ingredient in both products?

Thanks DM - that is what I thought as well. It is my understanding that the serum has a higher concentration. If I am going to eliminate products, I gotta go for moisture. That is my sole reason for going for the activator over the serum.

The serum is somewhat moisturizing itself not as moisturizing as the accellerator but you do get some moisture from the serum as well. If I were only going to get one prodcut I would get the serum and just use a basic moisturizer over it.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:49 am

DrJ wrote:

doodles wrote:

DarkMoon wrote:

doodles wrote:

Hi Dr J, I haven't posted on this thread before but have been following it closely. I have a few questions for you that I haven't seen answered yet. How would you use the serum post dermarolling with the 1.5mm? Can I use it immediately following the roll or should I wait a few hours/days? Is the accelerator ok for extremely acne prone skin? And lastly I was wondering if and when you will start shipping to Canada? Thanks, Doodles

Hi doodles,

This was posted on April 5th on page 2 of the thread. Very Happy

DrJ wrote:

lipglossdoll wrote:

I would like to know if international shipping will be offered in the future?

I am in Canada, will you eventually ship here? Very Happy

Canada is easy, we will have that set up within a few days. We will be adding a few more countries in the coming weeks (Australia is at the top of that list).

Thanks DM

If you are using Retin-A, I would start with the serum, day and night. I can work out for you some additional ways to get what you are going to miss from the accelerator.

Thanks Dr J, I'd appreciate that!. I am almost 47 years old and my skin still has mild break outs almost constantly. I am just afraid that the accelerator would aggravate the situation. Doodles

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:50 am

rileygirl wrote:

jom wrote:

I’m going to test the products by using the same 12 parameters Dr. J used in his study.

Jom for your test, will you be giving up all the other skin care products you normally use (except Retin A)? Will you be taking before and after photos?

Hi Riley, I'm not giving anything up. I'm still going to use my Skinceuticals CE Ferulic underneath the AA serum in the morning then add the accelerator then sunscreen. I may add an oil in between the serum and accelerator but this morning I did not. At night I'm keeping my same routine with the Retin A. No pictures for me.

I have to say that my first impression of actually using these products on my face is great. These are very nice, high quality products. And they do make your skin very soft and smooth. I ended up using 2 pumps of serum and 2 pumps of accelerator. The pumps are smaller than other products I've used with similar delivery systems.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:55 am

myamax wrote:

I am wondering about the use of my vitamin C serum (Cellex C Advanced C Serum) with this product. I am very happy with the way my skin is looking after 4 months use as it does not aggrivate my post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation and I've got glowing/radiant skin now. It is the 4th Vit C serum I tried and finally found one that works!

Would the Vit. C serum go on first, then the AnteAGE serum, followed by the Accelerator?

Almost 40 and am happy with my skin; interested in the AnteAGE for long-term benefits to keep it that way (hold off any sagging or loss of firmness) as well as help with moisture as it is very dry here in the winter. I was using the teprenone product from NCN Proskincare and it was a fantastic moisturizer...but alas, the long term effects of teprenone may not be positive, and am now looking elsewhere.

There is Vit. C in the Accelerator, so a bit of overlap, but the extra won't do any harm. I would suggest put it on after the serum (wait a minute - then the Accelerator). If you have post-inflammatory hyperpigmention, I would love to hear how AnteAGE does for you. We have seen some spectacular results (off label chat, this is not a claim). Take a before/after picture?

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:00 am

existential lady wrote:

My Cellese arrived in one day, i.e. yesterday. I put it on last night, felt very smooth and pleasant, no odor. Skin feels very smooth this morning. Agree with jom's report above. However,felt a little sticky overnight. Will see how it does with MDSkincare tinted moisturizer SPF 15 on top today. Will report back soon.

EL, which products did you get, just the serum?

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:01 am

I will be ordering Cellese (serum & accellerator) in a couple of weeks. Other than Retin-A 3x a week I will be using them exclusively twice a day for at least 3 months. After this will probably pare down to once a day use.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:11 am

DragoN wrote:

Quote:

Forgive me, I must be having a slow moment this morning, but what are you trying to get across here, Dragon? What is the point of your post?

Did you read it?
The point is clear.
Unfortunately seems most have a very limited understanding. I am not about to simplify something which is extremely complex to the level of baby talk. The questions on this board are of the level:
1. Will it lift my sagging jowls? NO.
2. Will it erase my deep furrowed wrinkles? NO.
3. Will it be a face lift in a bottle? NO.
4. Will I see result in 24 hours? NO.
5. I want to use half the product and not the other and still want results. NO.
6. Now it's a DRUG?? NO.
Your own damn physiology produces paracrines and cytokines and a whole host of signaling factors!

There is NO singular Magikal Factor..GET IT!!!

I am sorry, but I am quite sick of your condescending tone. This should be a place where we learn and share and do not attack others. Get over yourself. What exactly are your credentials? And if you say Yak Tenderizer one more time I am going to vomit.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:23 am

I am going to tell you all a bit about what life is like for a start up science-based company these days. I tell you this knowing the risk that knowing we are early in the growth curve may turn some of you off ... but you have choices and can purchase from J&J or P&G or whomever. Fine. One day we will be large, I am confident. I will tell you that we are self funded (the founders put in their own money) not a venture capitalist or bank. Now, in academia you apply for NIH grants that pay for basic research, which can turn into products. My first company did that (diabetes informatics). Since there is a dearth of grant funding in general, and our gov't is not paying for wrinkle research, we are taking an alternate pathway. We took three years and umpteen formulations and several clinical trials to get where we are. A painstaking process. We have enough science to convince us (and we are skeptical by nature), and we are pursuing much more. We will use profits from the company to pursue more science. Some of us are still in academia as well.

Now for those concerned about research data what I will say next probably won't be satisfying, but at least you will have some perspective. 1. it takes time and $$ to pursue experiments, and so things go a bit more slowly than we would all like, pending those profits; 2. there is a long cycle between data gathering and publication, often more than a year; 3. we keep thinking up more experiments 4. we ares busy with patents & other stuff also. All this means that you should either be early adopters (if you are not impressed with results shared so far, may require leap of faith), or you should wait a year or so (by then we will have much more documentation of our own work).

As I have preached on BFT, one way to know if something works, or should work, is to look at the underlying cell biology & chemistry & physiology. All scientists build on existing work. I make my case scientifically based on the work of many who preceded us. I will continue to point to all that while we increase the knowledge base re: AnteAGE as a specific formulation based on all that and our own work.

We do have objective as well as subjective data. Some of that is available and I will spiff up the presentation on the web site (admittedly a less than stellar one was rushed out). Please notice that our sample sizes are much bigger than those of our competitors doing similar work.

Again, some of you will find this truth telling a turn off and will want to delay purchasing on that basis. That is fine, and we hope you continue to watch.

So are we the most transparent cosmeceutical company on the planet, or what? (My advisory board is going to cringe).

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:28 am

DrJ wrote:

I am going to tell you all a bit about what life is like for a start up science-based company these days. I tell you this knowing the risk that knowing we are early in the growth curve may turn some of you off ... but you have choices and can purchase form J&J or P&G or whomever. Fine. One day we will be large. I will tell you that we are self funded (the founders put in their own money) not a venture capitalist or bank. Now, in academia you apply for NIH grants that pay for basic research, which can turn into products. My first company did that (diabetes informatics). Since there is a dearth of grant funding in general, and our gov't is not paying for wrinkle research, we are taking an alternate pathway. We take the product to market early and use whatever profits to fund further R&D (science). In the meanwhile we also pursue patents and the such. Some of us are still in academia as well.

Now for those concerned about research data what I will say next probably won't be satisfying, but at least you will have some perspective. 1. it takes time and $$ to pursue experiments, and so things go a bit more slowly than we would all like, pending those profits; 2. there is a long cycle between data gathering and publication, often more than a year; 3. we keep thinking up more experiments 4. we ares busy with patents & other stuff also. All this means that you should either be early adopters (if you are not impressed with results shared so far, may require leap of faith), or you should wait a year or so (by then we will have much more documentation of our own work).

As I have preached on BFT, one way to know if something works, or should work, is to look at the underlying cell biology & chemistry & physiology. All scientists build on existing work. I make my case scientifically based on the work of many who preceded us. I will continue to point to all that while we increase the knowledge base re: AnteAGE as a specific formulation based on all that and our own work.

We do have objective as well as subjective data. Some of that is available and I will spiff up the presentation on the web site (admittedly a less than stellar one was rushed out).

Again, some of you will find this truth telling a turn off and will want to delay purchasing on that basis. That is fine, and we hope you continue to watch.

So are we the most transparent cosmeceutical company on the planet, or what? (My advisory board is going to cringe).

Honestly I find the disclosure refreshing, the truth is what we all here want. Well the best skin possible too!

Thank you Dr. J Very Happy

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:33 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

Lotusesther wrote:

Of course this is all complex matter when you try to get into the smoke and mirrors of bombarding people with scientific articles. But basically it's I think very simple: does it work? and is it safe? and can you prove that?

So how exactly are scientists supposed to prove something works and is safe, if you are then going to accuse them of smoke and mirrors when they present published research? That is all we have, that is how every drug available today in the West gets and holds its license, well designed studies and peer reviewed literature. That is what every anti-ageing 'cosmeceutical' should be based on IMO. It is not nearly as complex as you think to locate or analyse studies, you have several EDSers with a scientific or analytical background at your disposal if you wanted them to assist or bounce ideas off.

I worked in hospital clean rooms and cell culture research labs many years ago, so I will defend this product and its manufacture against scaremongering and baseless allegations on safety. What I will not do is defend it as effective, nor will I purchase ... at least until I have seen the papers DrJ assures us are in press. The stuff that is being suggested here is nonsensical, it would be madness for Cellese to lie about their links to a research facility, it is the easiest thing in the world for anyone here to pick up the telephone or bash out an e-mail.

We can also listen to people like DragoN. She has no link to Cellese AFAIK so cannot be accused of bias as DrJ can. She is a scientist who has invested a lot of time in researching actives and formulation, she had some quite heated debates with DrJ over at SCT and has taken the time to read right up to date on stem cells and cytokines, which is more than I can be bothered to do! I am sure she would be happy to confirm whether the summaries on Barefacedtruth are accurate or sales pitches, and will surely give her opinion on DrJ's papers when they are published if you wish.

What more can be done to appease you?

Firefox, I miss articles on effects on human skin without chronic wounds. I miss info on growth factors vs. skin cancer, where on the forum dr J. said some things that may give rise to some concern on that. I miss clean crisp data on the effects of the clinical trial, the only assessments are self assessments and visual assessments without photographic or silicone moulds to show what kind of improvement we're talking about.
I have no doubt whatsoever that this cytokine technology is very, very exciting and promising - but when I buy a serum I don't want to buy a promise. I want to buy a star.

DragoN I respect very much as a formulator and someone who, in her own personal style that I can appreciate. She has expressed doubts about the effectiveness of cytokines in skin care. So what's your point? I don't know if this stuff - the cytokine - is effective but I fear that if it is, it might have some more effects than bargained for if it's as potent as claimed. So I wonder how the safety of it on mature skin on a daily basis is tested, as the research I find on the internet is all about wound healing (which is a relatively short term treatment compared to, say, 1 year of application twice daily).

What can this product do, effectively, ON HUMAN HEALTHY SKIN, and is there any proof for what it is supposed to do, is it safe FOR DAILY USE ON AGEING SKIN and has this safety been properly researched, those are my questions and for over 200 dollar for the set I think it's not too much to ask clear answers with reference to relevant research.

Again: a connection with a scientific institute is great, but it's not clear if and how this relates to THE SKIN CARE PRODUCTS. Call me stupid, wanting to be spoonfed etc. etc. but I think these are valid and relevant questions.

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:45 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

This brings up the safety issue again, which I have asked about multiple times and also bring up the question of where Dr. J is getting the MSC from? What safety measures are in place?

Stem cell lines can be purchased, then all you have to do is keep the things alive. Big Pharma do all the safety and screening stuff, many times the same line has been used for years or decades. There shouldn't be any cells or potentially dodgy components of cells left in the end product anyway, that should all be filtered/ centrifuged or otherwise extracted.

DrJ has posted links to published research on the stem cells and cytokines thread IIRC, if you click on those the methodology is always given, source of key materials, extraction methods and so on. Methodologies tend to be standardised throughout a field, you don't reinvent the wheel unless there is a flaw in the design.

I'd hazard a guess this place supplied the cells, you can research then and their safety measures pretty easily if you wish
http://anteage.com/research-facilities-partnerships/

Thank you, Firefox. Your post is very helpful. (The photo on Dr. J's website is the Sue and Bill Gross Stem Cell Research Center in case anyone is interested.)

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:48 am

jom wrote:

Hi Riley, I'm not giving anything up. I'm still going to use my Skinceuticals CE Ferulic underneath the AA serum in the morning then add the accelerator then sunscreen. I may add an oil in between the serum and accelerator but this morning I did not. At night I'm keeping my same routine with the Retin A. No pictures for me.

Thanks for the reply, Jom!

free skin care · Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:52 am

erg wrote:

DragoN wrote:

Quote:

Forgive me, I must be having a slow moment this morning, but what are you trying to get across here, Dragon? What is the point of your post?

Did you read it?
The point is clear.
Unfortunately seems most have a very limited understanding. I am not about to simplify something which is extremely complex to the level of baby talk. The questions on this board are of the level:
1. Will it lift my sagging jowls? NO.
2. Will it erase my deep furrowed wrinkles? NO.
3. Will it be a face lift in a bottle? NO.
4. Will I see result in 24 hours? NO.
5. I want to use half the product and not the other and still want results. NO.
6. Now it's a DRUG?? NO.
Your own damn physiology produces paracrines and cytokines and a whole host of signaling factors!

There is NO singular Magikal Factor..GET IT!!!

I am sorry, but I am quite sick of your condescending tone. This should be a place where we learn and share and do not attack others. Get over yourself. What exactly are your credentials? And if you say Yak Tenderizer one more time I am going to vomit.

Yes, my thoughts exactly. Thank you, Erg. Well said.

And, Dragon if you are going to try to make a point, it would be most helpful to most of us (you know, we of little understanding) if you could just be Clear on what your opinion is.

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